Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lecen_of_Mitran 06-10-07, 06:31 PM	First of all: 1) Hi! 2) As a brazilian, I speak portuguese, so, if you see any mistakes on my english, I´m trully sorry. Now... I´ve noticed that a lot of players complain that Wizards of the Coast launch every month at least one new book for D&D. Most of them complain because they think some of these books aren´t that great. Now, I´l make you a question: What if there were no books at all? What if Wizards promised us Draconomicon for 2003 and in... 2005, there was still no sign of it? What if we tried to enter in contact with Wizards about these issues and we get no answers back? None at all? Welcome to Brazil. Here, in my country, "Devir" ( http://www.devir.com.br/ ) is the official publisher for every D&D products, from books to miniatures and it doens´t care about us, customers. I´ll repeat again: it does NOT care about us. In 2005, they promised us a translated Draconomicon, but so far, and we are in 2007 already, there is no sign of that book (and neither of Complete Arcane, Adventurer, and all the others). When they were already publishing the 3.5 core rulebooks, they made us the "favor" of publishing also books like "Oriental Adventures", "Epic level Handbook" and other 3.0 that made us all brazilians, very confuse ("ok, what is 3.0 and what is 3.5?!" or "Can I equip my Fullblade with my little gnome?"). So far, as of 2007, we only got two (yeah, TWO) Complete books: Complete Warrior and Complete Divine. The next one was supposed to be Draconomicon, but, as I said, it has just vanished from the face of the Earth. I own the following books: - All 3 core rulebooks. - Epic Level Handbook. - Complete Warrior and Complete Divine. - Dungeon Master´s screen. - Tome and Blood and Sword and Fists (these are another example of 3.0 books that they published in the same time as the other 3.5). The reason I don´t have Frostburn, Complete Adventurer, Races of Stone, Unearthed Arcana, Players Handbook II and others? Simple: because they just DON´T exist. Why should I bother buying 3.0 books like Monsters of Faerun and Book of Planes (is that the name in english?)?? I wouldn´t be surprised if the launch something like "Monster Manual... II". Now the main problem: we tried and tried sending e-mails to Devir asking for answers about the reason of it publishing ONE book per year, or what happened with the books they promised, etc... but they just ignored us. You complain about the WizOs? Hah! I love them! Really!! You write something in here, and they answer you back, you send an e-mail to Wizards, they answer, they said they would publish Complete Champion in May, they did. People in here got angry because there would be no more Dragon and Dungeons magazines, but at least Wizards answered their customers explaining the reason for doing it and what would happen for the future. Devir ignores us. So, I come here, in the name of all brazilians D&D gamers, and I humblly request help from Wizards of the Coast on that matter. Please, do not let us down. Thank you for you patience and hope so, answer. :( P.S.: Please, if any brazilian read this, show your support for our cause.
AffableDoomwalker 06-10-07, 06:34 PM	You know, Wizards staff members read these forums, hopefully someone will send Manshoon over to Devir to clear things up for you, and soon.
lgvalerio 06-10-07, 07:02 PM	I agree plz Wizards, help us...
Nobunaga Oda 06-10-07, 07:25 PM	As a fellow Brazilian, I must say I own about two books in portuguese. Because of the lack of respect of Devir is showing to it´s customers and the books I wanted to buy just weren´t released! This is something to be looked by WOTC and fast. Devir reign of terror must stop.(And by reign, I mean "don´t release any book at all.")
Einvaldurinn_mikli 06-10-07, 07:27 PM	What precisely is wrong with just buying the English versions? I am Icelandic and English obviously isn't my first language but I buy them. (And love them)
Nobunaga Oda 06-10-07, 07:31 PM	What precisely is wrong with just buying the English versions? I am Icelandic and English obviously isn't my first language but I buy them. (And love them) Nothing "wrong" about it. At least for me. But...To import some of these books is very expensive. And we have many players who can´t read english and learned the game in portuguese.
Einvaldurinn_mikli 06-10-07, 07:34 PM	Nothing "wrong" about it. At least for me. But...To import some of these books is very expensive. And we have many players who can´t read english and learned the game in portuguese. I see. Then for the purposes of this thread, I throw my lot in with you.
Nibelung_ajr 06-10-07, 07:35 PM	Another brazilian here. And another that don't understand what Devir thinks. I mean... they talk all the time "the market doesn't help us because they don't buy". But how can you buy when they don't release new books? I already buy Complete Warrior and Complete Divine. The last was just because i want they to release Complete Arcane, my favorite book. And that was in August 2006! And that isn't only with D&D. Devir has the license to publish the World of Darkness, GURPS and a lot of others systems. This mean: Monopoly! All brazilian players depend of Devir, and we all doesn't have new books since 08/2006. PS: The "Book of Planes" released last year is Manual of Planes. Yes, even with the Planar Handbook already released they give us the 3.0 book. PS2: Someone know how to catch my old account from the deadland? PS3: Too expensive to me. ><
The Ubbergeek 06-10-07, 08:18 PM	Ah yes, I have many brazilian 'geek' buddies, so I compatize (i am a quebecois myself). Good luck, guys... Maybe it have a link with the nasty reputation and attacks from the right the rpg world recieved in the past years in your country.... maybe they are getting relunctant and all.
taeghen 06-10-07, 08:32 PM	Another dissatisfied brazilian customer here. And I've got to complain further. Not only are Devir's translations exceedingly slow in the coming, they're also of downright awful quality, with many many many typos and gross translation mistakes. These are far more numerous in their White Wolf translations, but are far from nonocurring in WotC translated books. I imagine this is so due to their wage policies: some 2 or 3 years ago, they were paying R$ 10,00 (about US$ 5,00) per page to the translators. And for RPG book pages, mind you (which tend to be far longer than those of regular books). On top of all that, they also sell their imported (in english) books for insanely high prices, far from the average brazilian player's reach. With the dolar at about 2 reais (the brazilian currency), their books sell at more than triple the converted price! (a book costing US$ 35,00 is sold at R$ 110,00; when it should be sold at R$ 80,00) I am lucky enough to be able to import (via Amazon) most of the books I want, and to be almost fluent in english; but that doesn't make me any less angered by Devir's way of conducting business.
Nibelung_ajr 06-10-07, 08:40 PM	Maybe it have a link with the nasty reputation and attacks from the right the rpg world recieved in the past years in your country.... maybe they are getting relunctant and all. Thanks to remeber me about that. :) Well, we have some national publishing companies, like Daemon (www.daemon.com.br) and Jambo (www.jamboeditora.com.br). And good sites like RedeRPG (www.rederpg.com.br) and Spellbrasil (broken now). And all of then goes to the press and/or released a note explaining about the game and that it isn't "demonic". Devir just sit and wait.
Crimson_Concerto 06-10-07, 08:46 PM	I'm Brazilian, but having lived in the US for quite a while and being fluent in English, I unfortunately haven't been aware of this problem. Nevertheless, I do of course completely support you and your cause, and I very much hope WotC listens to you. :) :help: Come on, WotC, let's get these guys some D&D books! :help: EDIT: Also, Lecen_of_Mitran, your English is very good :D
Nobunaga Oda 06-10-07, 09:09 PM	Thanks to remeber me about that. :) Well, we have some national publishing companies, like Daemon (www.daemon.com.br) and Jambo (www.jamboeditora.com.br). And good sites like RedeRPG (www.rederpg.com.br) and Spellbrasil (broken now). And all of then goes to the press and/or released a note explaining about the game and that it isn't "demonic". Devir just sit and wait. Spellbrasil is dead(at least for now.). But Spell Forever emerged from the ashes. http://s12.invisionfree.com/Spell_Forever/index.php? Here is the new forum :)! Crimson: Devir is getting worse as the time go. Did you know they have now control over Dragão Brasil?!
Nibelung_ajr 06-10-07, 09:17 PM	Spellbrasil is dead(at least for now.). But Spell Forever emerged from the ashes. http://s12.invisionfree.com/Spell_Forever/index.php? Here is the new forum :)! Yep, but Spell Forever is just a forum, not a site. That's why i didn't linked it. Did you know they have now control over Dragão Brasil?! Just to clear to all non-brazilians: Dragão Brasil was for a long time the only RPG magazine in Brazil. So, even now (that they are not the only one), the name "Dragão Brasil" have a immeasurable influence.
Frost_Hyral 06-10-07, 10:06 PM	another brazillian here.... I really did'nt belive when I saw this topic, but I think that it was a really good idea. Last time I went to the shopping I saw draconomicon, in english, is true that it is not a problem to me, but I have friends that would love that book but do not speak inglish and it is really a problem. I was looking for a book these days, spell compendium... well... hard to find, expensive, I just gave up. If the people of the WOTC help us....well, you know...
Daemoniss 06-10-07, 10:15 PM	In Brazil we buy boosters of DnD minis at $35 (R$72,00)... thanks Devir.
Bahamute 06-10-07, 10:22 PM	Another Brazilian... crap, I don´t think that´s works, Devir cant read this topic, and I dont think WoC help us with it... Anyway, I copy the link of this topic and send a mail to Devir... Sit and wait...
Woodstock 06-10-07, 10:41 PM	Brazilian too. Many are the problems we have with Devir. E.g. Most of translated books have higher price than imported ones. Although there are no taxes for books in Brazil, the imported ones still pay expensive shipping. Some months ago I bought the DM Guide 3.5. The original one was a buck or two cheaper, in brazilian currency, than the national one. Good job Lecen_of_Mitran! I hope WotC guys read this and help us.
britopa 06-10-07, 10:55 PM	Playing RPG in Brazil has been a hard work.....=/ Sometimes I think Devir is kidding with us.......Many a time I sent, and saw people sending emails to them, asking for explanation, and, as far as I know, 2 or 3 had recieved "answers".... The claims we, Brazillians, make, are old known, and are, as said above, fact in all systems Devir has license over...How can a single enterprise damage nearly an entire country of players due to the lack of consideration for their own public? ...And I'm getting really tired of expecting some reaction from Devir....¬¬' ( By the way, good topic, Lecen_of_Mitran! =] ) [And please, forgive my poor english =/ ]
Nibelung_ajr 06-10-07, 11:12 PM	Many are the problems we have with Devir. E.g. Most of translated books have higher price than imported ones. Although there are no taxes for books in Brazil, the imported ones still pay expensive shipping. Some months ago I bought the DM Guide 3.5. The original one was a buck or two cheaper, in brazilian currency, than the national one. Just to exemplify: Any of the Core books are R$ 82.00 (US$41.00, approximate). Player's Handbook by Amazon is US$29.95 (new) + 12.98 (shipment) = $43.93. All Core books, R$246.00 (US$123.00). By Amazon again, US$83.85 (all new) + 22.96 (shipment) = $106.81 As you saw, shipment is what make import expensive. If you buy 2 books, generally you pay less than the national book.
Diogo Salazar 06-10-07, 11:33 PM	Another Brazilian here. Like all brazilians who posted here I'm also dissatisfied about Devir. The main problem is their monopoly over the publishing rights and translation of the main american RPG publishers. This brings problems like books who were promised 4-5 years ago and still no sign, I mean, there're White Wolf books who were promised 7 years ago and no sign, and now they have a whole new "world" and it will take what, 10 years to come? But this is a Wizards Forum so let's keep talking about them. I have a few friends who still play Magic: The Gathering, I really don't know what is their problem with Devir, since, at least for this product, they care to import and sell the new sets in time, but they have complaints anyway. About the books, well, books were always expensive in this country (wich it's really a shame :mad: ) and anyone who likes book must be prepared for an expensive hobby. At least the brazilians laws about importing exclude the books of paying taxes, in one hand this is good: you can buy books wich are not available here, but you must be prepared for a disfavorable rate of exchange. On the other hand though, this doesn't help much, I mean, how many of you americans really speak another language fluently? Well, the same occurs here, not all of us speak fluent english and depend on bad translations and no certainty of when they will be translated as taeghen mentioned. My main complaint is about the D&D Miniatures, RPG books still count as books, for purpose of importing, but the miniatures obviously count as toys and they have a huge import fee on them. I believe that even importing them, Devir must have some kind of "dealer discount" so they should be able to buy them for a lower price and sell them with their profit share. But what we see here is boosters far overpriced, even considering the fees, shippings and so on, I mean, how is it possible for a single booster cost twice here than in America? (this is already considering the exchange rate AND importing fees).
Tpiardi 06-10-07, 11:45 PM	Price is a point, but, im my opnion, not the worse one, the incredible inattention how this publisher have with our d&d books is very unrespectful. Books like draconomicon, the complete serie, or even forgotten players handbook was been neglect completly. This year, in our "great" international RPG event, instead of publishing a d&d book, they will publish the monte cook evolved arcana, well it can be a great book, but why to publish it and not a book needed by our d&d players? We urge urgently a publisher devoted exclusively to publish wizards d&d booksim Brazil.
Tpiardi 06-11-07, 12:03 AM	Just to be know, below a list of all d&d 3.0 and 3.5 books published by devir since the beginning; 3.0 Players Handbook Monsters Manual Dungeon Masters Guide Sword and fists Tome and Blood Defenders of the faith Masters of the wild Song and Silence Forgotten Realms Campaing Setting Forgotten Realms Magic of Faerun Forgotten Realms Silver Marchs Oriental Adventures Deities and Demigods Manual of the Planes Epic Level Handbook And he Icewind Dale Trilogy For 3.5 Players Handbook Monsters Manual Dungeon Masters Guide Complete Warrior Complete Divine
Manyfist 06-11-07, 12:54 AM	I am not a Brazilian but I feel sorry for these guys. Having one company with a monopoly over all the RPG books, and from what I hear they come with very bad translations. WOTC should do something, after all they ARE a business, and like all good businesses they want to expand and keep their customers happy. So these Brazilians aren't happy, and have launched complaints, for the love of the game, do something!
magaiverr 06-11-07, 01:13 AM	I is truuly sad ready this and see how devir doesnt do anything about that they promissed a lot books and for now no sign of it =/ Please help us
Ranger REG 06-11-07, 03:35 AM	What precisely is wrong with just buying the English versions? I am Icelandic and English obviously isn't my first language but I buy them. (And love them) I think English should be Iceland's national language. :evillaugh Kidding aside (sort of, my future icelandic subject citizen) ... I do think that some translation publishers are not owning up to their contractual obligation. Either that or their agreement with WotC are not strict nor cater to their potential international customers. It gives them a sense of elitism, that their ideal customers should be and must be English-literate. Such a public perception is not good for WotC.
dwarfplayer 06-11-07, 07:25 AM	Let me add my voice to this thread. I'm a brazilian, too, and couldn't agree more. In the past, many games were less and less played here because of Devir. I played GURPS for years (since 1993), and for years I would say "if only they gave us the Psionics, or Martial Arts...". I was the WORST in my english class, and so had some problems in reading the few english books we had access to (internet was beggining here at that time). I stopped playing GURPS. More or less 5 years later, that 2 books were published in portuguese. Ask to any Changeling: the Dreaming player how much time they took to publish THAT corebook (even with at least 2 live action projects claiming for it for years - projects that ended before the book was published in portuguese). This was repeated again and again; slow translations, bad choices of what to translate (GURPS Tredroy, for God's sake! Werewolf Mokole, before even Bastet! We still don't have the Psionics Handbook, or any psionics at all!) Fortunately, I grown over my difficulties and learned enough english that I could read the books in the original version. Warlord, the collectible card game from AEG, was growing here for some months. Many a local player (me included) began to spend a lot of money in boosters. Our local store could only buy from Devir. The prices began an escalade with no sense at all (what generated the "Devir dollar" expression, referring to the rate of more than 4:1). The irregular flow of boosters (we sometimes waited for months to get a new expansion) and the increase in prices (even when the dollar rating was stable) led all our local Warlord players to quit the game. Now I play D&D Miniatures. As a D&D player, the game have an appeal that maybe Devir can't kill. Maybe. Because I already see they doing exactly the same thing again; prices far above the dollar rate exchange ("taxes", you say; in a local forum, I saw a thread in with they said Devir was caught importing without paying his taxes, passing D&D Miniatures as books - even if this was not true, the price is still too high), buyers getting no support, free kits being sold (the stores that want that free prizes for the players must buy it from Devir - yes, I'm talking about the retailer's kits). I really believe Devir began a good, well-aligned store. Somewhere in the way, it stopped thinking what it's players would like. Please, Wizards. Do NOT let D&D and D&D Miniatures die here. Not for me (I'm 28 years old, have a job, can pay for imported stuff); for our teenager middle-class players, that will buy only what they can find in portuguese. Forgive any bad spelling and my poor english; as I said, I can READ english easily now. Writing is sometimes difficult (specially when we get emotional :) ).
katakraos 06-11-07, 07:49 AM	I'm with you, men. In Spain, we have Devir also, but they work a lot better than their counterparts in Brazil and they don't have a monopoly over the RPG market. I still buy the most of my D&D books in English (they release them before), but there's a good bunch of books in Spanish... Sorry to hear that Brazil has to endure those poor conditions to play RPGs...
Bahamute 06-11-07, 07:50 AM	Well... I send an e-mail now (8:44 am) to Devir, let´s wait... But I make the question: That´s works? If the Devir answer me, I post the results (and the e-mail) in this topic (and in Forums: s12.invisionfree.com/spell_forever, and http://www.rederpg.com.br/portal/modules/ipboard/) bye
Roderick_BR 06-11-07, 08:10 AM	Greetings. I'm Brazilian too, and when my friend showed me this thread, I had to register (I was looking for a reason to register anyway) to give my two cooper pieces. It's very true. I don't know what the Hades Devir is doing. He doesn't publish the books they say they'll release. Their other areas must be very profitable, because they certainly aren't selling RPG stuff. Me and my friends have the 3 core books (3.0) in English, and all the 5 class books (sword and fist, etc) in English also, because it's impossible to get the ones in Portuguese. When they are released at all. We managed to get the Players in Portuguese, and I think one of my friends got the DMG. By a miracle, they managed to publish the 3.5 core books, but that's it. I think they didn't even translated the "II" books (Player's II, DMG II...) Thing is, they got a monopoly, and do nothing with it. And when they do, it's expensive, and not a very good quality (must resists.. PS3 jokes...) My friend said, and I agree, that if WotC sold the rights for each book individually, allowing others companies to translate them, Devir would wake up and start working, or let others do the work.
renatsdale 06-11-07, 08:34 AM	I'm Glad I can read in english! But I have lots of Friends that really counts on translated books and the few translated books Devir has are very expensive! They have the monopoly of D&D Books in Brazil and they do a terrible work translating it, with lots of mistakes! Wizards should look for new contracts 'couse, owning every rights, Devir don't care anymore about its costumers. Valew!
Sr_Pichu 06-11-07, 08:41 AM	er.. shouldn´t this be posted in a "technical support" or the like? anyway brazilian history of RPG is very depressing we´ve been neglected for quite some time, but the beggining of RPG in Brazil was quite good, when the publishing rights were in the Abril Editora (back in TSR age) i had faced some translation mistakes, missing numbers, BUT, that was the beggining of RPG in Brazil, so, not so much harm done but they, in a suprising little time released the D&D board game, Karameikos, and Forgotten Realms campaing set. The Troubles began when Devir bought the rights, annoucing to everybody that they would translate EVERY AD&D book, they translated the Complete Book of Fighters, and then abandoned the project because D&D 3 edition was released. Even so we had to wait 2 or 3 years... (small fact, i´ve bought the Players handbook when it was released here... paid 42 reais ($21 more or less) but when the portuguese version was released ALL PRICES skyrocked to 80 reais ($40) both the portuguese AND english edition the price of Magic is very hight, I used to play, but no more, too expensive here to pay like, 15 reais ($7,5) for a booster is too much... Some have said that the RPG has had many troubles here, but heck! in the US, the RPG had suffered much more attacks and it stronger... Here thanks to Devir the RPG is disapearing... edit: has someone said anything about Eberron? Devir has promised it to us too...
Kimble500 06-11-07, 09:14 AM	Brazilian too. It´s incredible what Devir does with the translation. It´s not like they make some minors mistakes. Small numbers changes, a bad choice in the words. The translation is so bad, that sometimes they create a new rule. Attack of opportunity, for example. In the 3.0 translation, Devir-version, a attack of opportunity would occur everytime you ENTER a threatened square. Okay, maybe they just missed it. Then in the 3.5 translation, a attack of opportunity would occur everytime you ENTER OR LEAVE a threaned square. Ok, in 3.0 maybe they just made a small mistake. But in 3.5, they started to create their own rules. It´s not the only case. All the kinds of damages, grapple, many other rules, they are just a mess because of the translation. I´m tired of explaining that in D&D a mace can kill someone, just because the way it was translated, it seens that you can´t die if you are hit by a hammer/mace/anything like that. And the prices. They are just crazy. Many times is just cheaper to buy something in english, at almost half the price (if you don´t pay the shipment or find a store with good prices). And it´s not only with D&D. Gurps and WoD have the same problems (thank you, Devir). Gurps Cyberpunk was so bad translated that I stoped using the portuguese version and bought an original.
Leo 06-11-07, 09:25 AM	I live in Portugal, but Devir rules everything about Rpg's here also. And god, they're bad at what they do. Lots of people in the forums complain that wotc does a crappy job, but they haven't seen anything. Insanely high prices, horrible translations (actually bending the rules), and no customer suport whatsoever. I wonder how Wotc let's this goes unpunished. Well, thankfully I have ways to acess the originals, but not everyone here has. My first game we went back and forth with Aoo and many other things because the translations were so bad.
Belzakan 06-11-07, 09:34 AM	I must say that's a dream come true! I agree with everybody here. In the past Devir Livraria was a great bastion of the brazilian RPG world, but now... I think they just got tired... It's important to say that Devir publishes the books in spanish too, and the lack of time between the english/spanish version is about months, and every book is released in spanish. Needless to say the quality of the spanish translations are far better than the portuguese ones... I read in english, and all my books are in english, but I know a bunch of people that doesn't have that possibility. And about Eberron, as far as I know Devir said officially that Eberron won't be translated and the only brand they intend to support is Forgotten Realms. Lets see if that thread will lead to something really good... I hope so! :)
Lecen_of_Mitran 06-11-07, 10:01 AM	Well, friends, when I started this thread, I wasn´t thinking on "who speaks english and who can afford buying imported D&D books". Why? I mean, why should we need to buy american D&D books when Wizards of the Coasts has an official brazilian publisher?? That doens´t make sense! It´s the same as if I bought an imported car from GM that came from USA, when I could just buy HERE!! So far, we got no answer from the WizOs... I truly hope thy don´t ignore us.
Kimble500 06-11-07, 10:51 AM	But you could buy the car here. It would cost more than paying the car with the delivery, it would be different from the original, many parts would be missing or not working, but would be the same car. At least, that would be what Devir would tell you.
GoldGreatWyrm 06-11-07, 11:26 AM	Yeah, Devir really let al lot of us down. They are not only owners of the rights to translate Core stuff, but also Forgotten Realms, Dragonlance, and even Warcraft RPG :confused: And each one of the campaign settings only has few books translated. Other than that, the people at Darksun Brasil (www.darksun.com.br), with a small team, were able to translate the Psionic's SRD and the player's contente on the d20 SRD, plus other materials from athas.org, quicklier than Devir did their job with the 2 (for now) Completes they've translated. This leads me to think that if we actually had more companies doing translations, things would be better :(
FeanorCursed 06-11-07, 11:42 AM	Im brazilian too and couldnt agree more. Not only they take long to translate, but also the translation is horrible and the prizes are expensive. I play magic as well and its expensive too. I dont have sure how much do you pay for a boster in U.S., but here we are paying almost 6 dollars...
Brazilian_Arcanist 06-11-07, 12:10 PM	I agree with everything (it couldn't be different) ... but what could WizOs really do about this ???
Lecen_of_Mitran 06-11-07, 12:44 PM	I agree with everything (it couldn't be different) ... but what could WizOs really do about this ??? Not much... but they could speak with the right people about this.
Belzakan 06-11-07, 12:45 PM	Maybe nothing... Maybe show the right path, it would be a great help already.
ALL_242 06-11-07, 01:03 PM	I had to register and make my presence here. (Finally registered! My group won't believe! :D ) Also Brazilian and I agree with every word said. And I must say, paying a price like that for a job so poorly done is insane. Who buys an old Chevy for 1 million bucks? Go and buy a Maserati instead! Hehehehe The problems with translations, abusive prices, bad choice (I mean, REALLY BAD CHOICE) of words (in books! For Christ!), lack of material, lack of information… That’s only SOME of the problems we’re facing. We beg WoTC to check this, see what they could do and help us with that (and the Portuguese people too, I think, need the same attention). I also have books in english. I bought the 3.0 core rule books and realized I had just spend R$120 (about $60) on something that won’t even serve me as origami paper.
lordmon 06-11-07, 01:13 PM	Brazilian too... Agree 100% I am lucky, I did not need Devir I buy english books, but right now Devir and Wizards are losing players to others companys because they lack of support. Wizards really have to make a choice. Or they do something or lose one of biggest market. It is not great now, but it could be great with the right support... Devir did not release a book for 8 months... They came and say the market is not good (yes, it is not that book, but others companys are releasing books). They need to make money, and what book they choose to do it? Arcane Evolved... They will not make money with it... Players are waiting for Players of Faerun for 1 year... They realease a adventure for Requiem at the major RPG magazine in Brazil but... They do not release Requiem???? What about DD Minis? We have a good community of players, 3 tournaments every month in one city. Latest exp Devir is selling? WoDQ... No support for tournmament. Nothing... And no reply to players email... Fabiano
Arhurt 06-11-07, 01:47 PM	Add my voice to the list on unhappy Brazillian players... I can read, write, speak and play in english, but none of my players can. I have purchased Draconomicon and Heroes of Battle in english so I could use them, but my players can`t, they need portuguese books. Devir must be punished! How is it possible, if the market is soooo bad, that other publishers are releasing big books here with excellent translation and selling as well as when the market is "good" (Iron Kingdoms by Jambo anyone?) Please Wizards, hear us!!!
Dragao_das_Serras 06-11-07, 02:50 PM	Hopefully something will be done to help you out. --Alexandre American by birth, Gaúcho in spirit.
Onslaught[IT] 06-11-07, 02:53 PM	Hello everyone. It's quite weired to see some Brazilian guys whom I know from other forums (mainly RedeRPG). Sadly, WotC won't do a thing about that. Not because they don't want to, but because they can't. If Devir plays its bills to WotC, what's the problem from WotC's point of view? The worst problem is within Devir. They just don't know the market... they don't know what to translate and print and what they should forget. They've released Deities & Demigods back in 3.0... and now, as Fabiano said, they're releasing Arcana Evolved... which is the fifth setting (FR, DL, RL, Warcraft... and now, AE). Besides that, the book is so expensive that I could buy almost two new completes *in english* with the same amount of money. Worst yet, a PHB3.5 in English (imported!) is cheaper than it's translated version... besides, the Portuguese version has too many errors! Edit: After posting thins I found a topic with this link in it posted on RedeRPG. Good reason for finding people form there here...
Qwicksilver 06-11-07, 03:21 PM	Email WOTC about it? Just a thought, if they're not reading your complaints. I'm not Brazilian, but I'd put my support with you.
Valberto 06-11-07, 03:23 PM	Another one Brazilian here. Many of my net buddies are here, and I cound not stay out of this protest. Yes, all that was said is the very true. Here in Brazil we are left aside. Devir can't handle the situation, that she created. She took for herself all the big licenses of RPG (aka Gurps, D&D and Storiteller/ling) but don't suport anyone of then in a way that could help the brazilian gammer. All here are very unhappy with Devir. I know that Wizards can't do nothing about this, but, I still can protest.
Tpiardi 06-11-07, 04:28 PM	We want at least a clause that impose devir to publish not less than X D&D books a year. If they cant do that, there s many publishers how will be happy im make that.
kintobr 06-11-07, 04:34 PM	I'm another sad brazilian that agrees with all that was said in this thread. Devir have been doing the worse job possible for years, since the Abril publisher sold their Ad&d rights to them. I don't understand the meaning of buying books in english while there is a company owning the rights of publishing the same books in portuguese. That's why I've stop playing RPG long time ago. As a publisher and store, Devir does not respect WotC customers in Brazil (long translation periods, high prices, sometimes 3x the US prices), I don't thinks this is the best practice on running a business. Because of this I think the WotC should take a look at its contracts in Brazil. There's a huge mid-class teenage group down here (in Brazil) waiting for an "AXE to split some SKULLS with their BARBARIANS in DUNGEONS" while Devir does a "Morta-Kombat Fatality" on Wizards of the Coast reputation. A complete joke. They're joking at us. Joking on your business. Please WotC, we need your help.
Kursk 06-11-07, 04:35 PM	What if Wizards promised us Draconomicon for 2003 and in... 2005, there was still no sign of it? What if we tried to enter in contact with Wizards about these issues and we get no answers back? None at all? I don't know? Maybe jump for joy that poorly though out, un-playtested material wasn't being sold?
Tpiardi 06-11-07, 04:40 PM	Please people send emails to the responsible department. I already send one, and ive mentioned this post as well The page to contact WoC support is below http://wizards.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wizards.cfg/php/enduser/acct_login.php?p_userid=tpiardi@gmail.co m&p_next_page=myq_ilp.php
lordmon 06-11-07, 05:15 PM	But Wizards is the only one that could do something. They are losing money. They should be aware that in 1 year we could have more books in portiguese from Green Ronin then Wizards. Something is wrong... And it is not the market... Fabiano
Kursk 06-11-07, 05:28 PM	But Wizards is the only one that could do something. They are losing money. They should be aware that in 1 year we could have more books in portiguese from Green Ronin then Wizards. Something is wrong... And it is not the market... Fabiano If they haven't done it is because lack of ROI. It is a business after all.
Dodo900 06-11-07, 05:38 PM	Well, if they are really losing money, I think they would have done something already. But I still have hope Wizards will do something for the future. Jambo is a good choice to sell the rights of publishment, they work hard, and even if they did't, they would do better than Devir :mad: some people say that was offered 2,000,000 dolars for the rights of D&D, and Wizards refused. I can't understand why. WHY!?!? :weep: Maybe because Devir have good sales in other countrys, like Spain. But there's have to be some way to take the brazilian rights and keep the spanish!!! BUT PLEASE, PUNISH THEM!!!!! Devir would be a good villan to adventures, don't you think?:)
Sagramor 06-11-07, 06:09 PM	Hi. I´m brazilian too and I agree with all of you. Everyone here already said about the price of the books sold by Devir. It´s very high. I just want to say, in my opinion, that this is not a BIG problem. I´m sure everyone here would gladly buy a D&D book from Devir for the very same price it costs today, if: 1) You could have sure that you were buying a great book, very well translated. 2) You could have sure that next month, another book would be available at the stores. I mean, you could have sure that Devir would publish titles periodicaly, like it makes in Spain. Here goes just an exemple: Great part of us didn´t buy the Complete Warrior. Why? Because we know that next month we won´t be able to buy Complete Adventurer, and next month the Complete Arcane, next month the Complete Divine and so on. If you buy a book, you´ll have to wait at least 1 year to be able to buy another one. So, what do we do to update our D&D stuff?? There are two options: 1) We download! Yes, we download the books so we don´t have to wait years (in some cases, forever) to buy an expensive terrible translated version of that book. 2) We buy imported books. But here there´s a little problem, as it was said by many of you: not everyone knows how to read in English. Well, the big deal is that we want to buy the books but they are bad-translated, expensive and there are too few titles available. Devir just ignores us, as said. (Just forgive me if there are some mistakes... my English is not that good...)
Lecen_of_Mitran 06-11-07, 06:24 PM	Although I don´t agree with piracy, and yes, donwloading the books from the internet (unless you´ve paid for it) is against the law. But what can they do? Wait 5-6 years to see Players Handbook II at last? The matter itself is not the fact that the players can or not understand english, but why do we have to buy english D&D books and Wizards has already an official brazilian publisher?
Sagramor 06-11-07, 06:36 PM	Although I don´t agree with piracy, and yes, donwloading the books from the internet (unless you´ve paid for it) is against the law. But what can they do? Wait 5-6 years to see Players Handbook II at last? The matter itself is not the fact that the players can or not understand english, but why do we have to buy english D&D books and Wizards has already an official brazilian publisher? The point is exactly that. We want to buy the books, but we can´t. They just don´t exist around here. I just exposed our situation and our options.
Kursk 06-11-07, 06:57 PM	The point is exactly that. We want to buy the books, but we can´t. They just don´t exist around here. I just exposed our situation and our options. You can't even mail order?
Diogo Salazar 06-11-07, 07:23 PM	You can't even mail order? In portuguese? No! In english? Sure! But that's the whole point here: why import english books when supposedly there is a national publisher who should translate and sell them?
Kursk 06-11-07, 07:37 PM	In portuguese? No! In english? Sure! But that's the whole point here: why import english books when supposedly there is a national publisher who should translate and sell them? I went to the website and see the problem. They are trying to cover too much ground product wise. They are concentrating on what makes them the most money and it isn't D&D. Wizards contracted with the wrong company from the D&D player standpoint.
Miyudo 06-11-07, 08:22 PM	:( PLS WOTC HELP US !!! Sell your books directly to us, in English, in portuguese, in gernany ... i dont care ... JUST KICK THE DEVIR OUT OF BUSINESS HERE !! they dont care about the RPG, they dont care about us. we brazilian players just want to BUY our Books. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Terrible English, sorry. better than nothing. hehehe.:D
Sagramor 06-11-07, 08:48 PM	I went to the website and see the problem. They are trying to cover too much ground product wise. They are concentrating on what makes them the most money and it isn't D&D. Yeah, but D&D doesn´t make money 'cause Devir don´t WANT TO. At least, that´s what it seems to me. There´s a lot of people disposed to buy books and all the stuff... but, as we are saying, we don´t buy 'cause we can´t! I mean, since Devir has the monopoly uppon the RPG in Brasil, everything can make money!
Kursk 06-11-07, 08:57 PM	Yeah, but D&D doesn´t make money 'cause Devir don´t WANT TO. At least, that´s what it seems to me. There´s a lot of people disposed to buy books and all the stuff... but, as we are saying, we don´t buy 'cause we cant! No. They are a business. They have X amount of internal resources to devote. D&D isn't a big enough part of the pie.
Nibelung_ajr 06-11-07, 09:07 PM	I went to the website and see the problem. They are trying to cover too much ground product wise. They are concentrating on what makes them the most money and it isn't D&D. Wizards contracted with the wrong company from the D&D player standpoint. Candy for you o/ Exactly what we say: Devir don't publish D&D in Brazil/Portugal. Not in the time we want. I (and specifically I) can buy one book per month even with the expensive price of Devir. The only books i don't have is the ones I don't want (Epic Level Handbook, Deitied & Demigods, Oriental Adventures and the Scenarios). I'll buy the majority of the 3.5 books (Complete series, Races series, Frostburn, Sandstorm, etc...) and some specifics 3.0 (Hero Builder's Guidebook, Unearthed Arcana). I want to buy at least the Campaing Setting of Eberron because i don't know the scenario, but like the Warforgeds. But because the majority of the brazilians players don't have the resources i have, they can't release a D&D book per month. But they can release a book (of any of his licenses) per month. At least we can say "Hey, Devir is working". If this topic can made Devir publish a D&D book for ever two months (intercalated with any other licenses), i'm happy.
Anonimous000 06-11-07, 09:19 PM	Hello, another Brazilian here. I wasn't thinking about comment here, but I was following this thread to see where we will arrive. This post made me register and came here to coment. I went to the website and see the problem. They are trying to cover too much ground product wise. They are concentrating on what makes them the most money and it isn't D&D. Wizards contracted with the wrong company from the D&D player standpoint. If I'm not mistaken, among the three biggest american RPGs currently being published (D&D 3.x, Storytelling and GURPS 4th Edition) D&D is the one with more tranlanted books, so I can say that it is their main product among translated RPGs. (Heck, Storytelling just has one book if I'm not mistaken, and GURPS has none at all). But lets talk just about D&D, we are at WotC house, aren't we? D&D is not seeing the care it deserves. And other D20 System games are even worse. D20 Modern/Future 'til now has just the Core Book for Modern (if others have been tranlanted they are already out of stock, 'cause I haven't seen then in stores.) Star Wars was never tranlated and probally won't be. Magic I don't know mucha about it's translation's quality, must be better than the one in book, there's less text to translate, just some terms. But the prices are insane. Card Games are considered Games by brazilian law, and have to pay huge fees to enter Bazil, then you would think that by being published here, without fees and no price conversion from Dolars to Reais it would be cheap. Well, the booster packs in English are about the same price of the trasnlated ones. Why?:confused: Other product os WotC with barely no attention are the Novels. I read some MAgic Novels, Arena was translated, I read it in Portuguese, but some parts seen really bad translated. Never seen any other translated. From Dragonlance they translated the first triology, nothing else. And now, speaking for those who cannot come here to protest. We are in numbers here on this thread to complain about Devir's work. But we are at maximum ten percent of all gamers in Brazil, probally much less. I say that WotC should look for someone else to publish their books. And someone who's not publishing something for their competitors, because Devir can choose between publishing D&D and Storytelling, giving priority to the mosto popular, and that is really bad for WotC. I got carried away with what should be a short comment, but it's the time for complaining in more serious ways then emailing Devir, who never answers us. Heck, I bet they don't even read our emails.
Lecen_of_Mitran 06-11-07, 09:40 PM	D&D is not seeing the care it deserves. And other D20 System games are even worse. D20 Modern/Future 'til now has just the Core Book for Modern (if others have been tranlanted they are already out of stock, 'cause I haven't seen then in stores.) When Devir released D20 Modern in portuguese?
Nibelung_ajr 06-11-07, 09:49 PM	D20 Modern/Future 'til now has just the Core Book for Modern Correction: We have an transcription from the D20 Modern SRD, with some house-rules in the book (example: We have only 3 basic classes). And it wasn't released by Devir, but by Talismã in news-stand by a acessible price. Other product os WotC with barely no attention are the Novels. I read some MAgic Novels, Arena was translated, I read it in Portuguese, but some parts seen really bad translated. Never seen any other translated. By Ediouro. Again, not Devir.
Anonimous000 06-11-07, 09:58 PM	Sorry for the mistake with the Magic novel Arena (mine is nowhere to be found, so I couldn't check if Devir tranlated it or not). About D20 modern I forgot to mention that I was not completly sure of it's translation. I kind of remenber seeing it at their main store, but was in a hurry so didn't stop to check for sure.
taeghen 06-11-07, 10:37 PM	So far, many people have vented their anger against the odious Devir, but little in the way of direct action has been done. I suggest we act more consistently. There are several things to be done: 1) It would be nice to have a clearer idea of Devir's reasons for publishing so few books. Maybe we could insist a little bit more with the e-mails on that point. 2) Many people don't know enough English to answer or even read this thread. Perhaps we can make a similar thread available on major RPG forums and sites, such as Spell and RedeRPG, (and maybe in Orkut, also - I understand there are large anti-devir communities there). We could even create a site to organize our little anti-devir movement. 3) Our famous EIRPG (Encontro Internacional de RPG, or International RPG Convention) is coming. We could work on gathering signatures from dissatisfied brazilian D20 customers, and send 'em over to Devir and WotC. And I believe we'll be able to get lots of 'em, considering the anger displayed by players here. A poll could also be made, to get an idea of what the average brazilian RPG-consumer can buy and what he's interested in buying. 4) Interested fluent english speaking brazilians could write some small sample translations, and send'em over to WotC (via some brazilian publisher, I imagine) along with Devir's translations. This would enable 'em to compare quality. If a good enough business plan is presented by another brazilian publisher, I think they (Wizards) would be happy to "retire" Devir. [sorry for any grammar mistakes or typos I may have made]
Kimble500 06-11-07, 10:48 PM	No. They are a business. They have X amount of internal resources to devote. D&D isn't a big enough part of the pie. So why keep the license? Why not give up of the books? Or Devir´s owner is someone son/relative/lover and get the license for free? They make the translation in other countries. It´s not that they doesn´t sell (there are other brazilian companies that make translation of other companies´s books or sell their own books), Devir is just incompetent. It was proved many times. Look at all the examples that were given here. Or sell a book that is from a old edition, with many mistakes at two or three times the normal price a sign of competence? By keeping the license with Devir, Wizards is losing the possibilities that brazilian market has. You have to live the situation to fully understand, but Wizards products are losing market (here) to worst games, worst cenarios, just because there is no Wizards product to compete. Even some small companies are translating more books than Devir. Bigger and with better quality. And they sell well enough to keep the translations coming. 5) Lastly, should all else fail, english speaking players could gather in a internet community designed to translate the orginals to Portuguese, and distribute 'em in pdf format. If nothing more, this should make Devir pay more attention to their RPG buyers. No, we can´t. That would be against the law. You can´t make free pdfs versions of the books.
Nibelung_ajr 06-11-07, 10:56 PM	1) It would be nice to have a clearer idea of Devir's reasons for publishing so few books. Maybe we could insist a little bit more with the e-mails on that point. This don't explain Douglas Quinta Reis (Devir owner) talks in the last EIRPG (07-2006) that Draconomicon was in the printers, and it wasn't released as yet. And stay with the argument "the people don't buy" when releasing a expensive non-WotC book that wasn't in the previews. 3) Our famous EIRPG (Encontro Internacional de RPG, or International RPG Convention) is coming. We could work on gathering signatures from dissatisfied brazilian D20 customers, and send 'em over to Devir and WotC. And I believe we'll be able to get lots of 'em, considering the anger displayed by players here. This remeber me the Shirts of "A Devir não tem amigos" (Devir do not have friends) from EIRPG 2005. Do it works? 4) Interested fluent english speaking brazilians could write some small sample translations, and send'em over to WotC (via some brazilian publisher, I imagine) along with Devir's translations. This would enable 'em to compare quality. If a good enough business plan is presented by another brazilian publisher, I think they (Wizards) would be happy to "retire" Devir. www.darksun.com.br < They translated the Psionics SRD and the PHB SRD in clear portuguese. And they are working for free. And are the responsible to translate the oficial athas.org material.
RobsonROX 06-11-07, 10:56 PM	Another brazilian here. I'm not the type who actively participate in forum threads, but the subject in case really reflects the brazilian reality. Devir not only hold the RPG monopoly on brazil, but have a great assortment of businesses - like diverse alternative comics. And there is no priority in RPG. Although devir organize various events, they release very few RPG titles yearly. They could release 20 titles in a year, but that is counting Wizards of The Coas, White Wolf and Steve Jackson games, ans less frequently other publishers. It is far more easy for them to sell imports overpriced and get profit for the inability of most brazilians in get imports than translating titles for brazil. Changing the concession to a publisher who dedicates exclusively to RPG, or even better, exclusively to Wizards of the Coast, would significally improve the brazilian situation. Its comprehensible that not all titles would be translated. But if a publisher ask the players what books they want translated through a simple internet poll would be really wonderful. But Devir?? They don't even answer a single question by e-mail, letter or even by PHONE!! The fairs and events?? Only an excuse to sell IMPORTS!! Go to any Devir event, enter in the onipresent "terramedia"stand (terramedia is owned by devir to sell their books... an excuse to compete with the other book sellers, who are obligated to buy the books from devir), and look at the shelves: 90% of the books are imports. So, as Brazilian and as D&D and D20 Modern Player: please, review the rights concession from devir!! We brazilian players need attention!! We are a pottential market misexplored because your representative - devir - does not care about your costumers!!
BobbyMac 06-12-07, 12:48 AM	Any country with exports like Gisele Budechen, Adriana Lima, and Ana Beatriz Barros has my support.... :D
Sagramor 06-12-07, 12:48 AM	And now, speaking for those who cannot come here to protest. We are in numbers here on this thread to complain about Devir's work. But we are at maximum ten percent of all gamers in Brazil, probally much less. Well, I really don´t think I´ve truly undestood what you´ve said, but... We are much less than 1% here, I believe. Just on the brazilian community about D&D in Orkut we have about 18 thousand members. 1) It would be nice to have a clearer idea of Devir's reasons for publishing so few books. Maybe we could insist a little bit more with the e-mails on that point. Man... Forget it at all! That really isn´t an option.
Sagramor 06-12-07, 12:52 AM	So, as Brazilian and as D&D and D20 Modern Player: please, review the rights concession from devir!! We brazilian players need attention!! We are a pottential market misexplored because your representative - devir - does not care about your costumers!! That´s really the big idea of it all!
Anonimous000 06-12-07, 03:00 AM	Well, I really don´t think I´ve truly undestood what you´ve said, but... We are much less than 1% here, I believe. Just on the brazilian community about D&D in Orkut we have about 18 thousand members. What I mean is that about 10% of the RPG groups can do with original books in English, I say that 'cause I know some groups where only one player is English fluent and they manage to play with original books. If you count the English fluent players, yeah, we are about 1%, maybe 2%. It was just a reminder that we here are a few, very few, "elite" players, the one's who are capable of posting in WotC Boards, that are in English. Remenbering now, as Devir has annouced, Monte Cook will (probaly) be here at EIRPG, as an International Guest (wich is the only real International thing in all the International RPG Con that EIRPG pretends to be). Maybe we could try to get this... (not finding an adequated word here... should I say complain?)... Well, let's say that we could try to talk directly with him, or something like that. He may not be one of the heads in WotC, but he wrote some core books, maybe he has some influence.
Kariel 06-12-07, 06:06 AM	Hello folks Yes...This is the true and sad situation of D&D in Brazil. Somebody wrote an e-mail about this matter to Wotc? If yes, please post the answer in this topic!
XumeX 06-12-07, 09:57 AM	I agree with my fellow Brazilians here! And just adding: Devir has the importing rigths of many games, and simply doesn't import them! I can't think of a WotC example right now, but I remember trying to buy Shadowrun and not being able because of that! Now... why do they do that? Don't know...
juma_sertao 06-12-07, 10:25 AM	Another brazilian player here. And another one that hates Devir policy. I bought all 3.0 Core books. But when they released 3.5 core books, instead of paying 30% more, I just printed the SRD. I payed about 60 reais (30$) in each 3.0 books, but 3.5 books were released costing about 80 reais (40$)! It was more expensive and, yet, had the same problems of bad translation.
Sagramor 06-12-07, 11:05 AM	What I mean is that about 10% of the RPG groups can do with original books in English, I say that 'cause I know some groups where only one player is English fluent and they manage to play with original books. If you count the English fluent players, yeah, we are about 1%, maybe 2%. It was just a reminder that we here are a few, very few, "elite" players, the one's who are capable of posting in WotC Boards, that are in English. Ok. Now I´ve understood... Well, like it was said before, I think that the big deal for us is to show WoTC we are a pottential market. WoTC won´t help us just 'cause they are cool. It´s a business, we have to convince them to invest their money on our RPG´s market... what I think it´s a hard task.
jrmariano 06-12-07, 12:46 PM	Hi! Just like some of you I've just registered in order to post this. The main difference is that I'm Portuguese and not Brazilian. The person who pointed me to this thread (a friend of mine who is also the founder and owner of the only Portuguese RPG internet portal, www.abreojogo.com) commented in a post that we Portuguese consider Brazil, a RPG Gamer's Haven: Brazil has a pile of translated books, many original brazilian RPGs, a lot of players, specialized monthly magazines and even big Gaming Conventions. This doesn't seem like much to American players but compared to Portugal it is a colossal difference. But in Portugal we have a Gamer's Hell! Although Devir has Portuguese Language rights to the main RPGs game lines in existence not a single one is sold here in Portugal or even on their own shops. Everybody has to buy the original english versions through game stores or order them on-line from abroad. The staff at Devir Arena (one of the Portuguese Devir game stores) even refused to order the Portuguese Language D&D version published by the Brazilian Devir that I wanted to offer to a possible newbie gamer relative of mine ir order to recruit him into the game. There are a lot of D&D players here (most of the RPG players we have are d20 fans) and who have some difficulty in atracting new player because of the language barrier. When confronted with this situation, Portuguese Devir management argues that there isn't a lot of players to go around and that all of them prefer the original english versions because they hate the translated material. That's odd because as of now there isn't any portuguese books at stores that could show them they are wrong. And how can Devir hold the Portuguese Language License if it isn't even sold in Portugal as well as in Brazil? And there isn't any promotion regarding RPGs in Portugal made by Devir. RPGs are virtually unknown here and mostly confused with CRPGs or other unsavory activities. ;) The main advantage that we have here in Portugal is that due to low taxes on book imports and the strong Euro we can order game books on-line and pay even less than their common PVP value. But you know what, due to this (no portuguese versions and no promotion) RPGs are a very microcospic hobby in Portugal. Don't any of you brazilian gamers want to emigrate here? We need more gamers! :D
Kimble500 06-12-07, 12:51 PM	Hard? Helloooo! Jambo is a smaller company, younger and with less money. They are publishing BIG books (Iron Kingdoms Player´s Handbook, 400 pgs), faster than Devir and with better quality. There is a good market here, we have players wanting books. A market where there is need for more books, but no WoD, Gurps, etc., to compete with. jrmariano, Try Jambô Editora. You will not be able to buy Wizards books, but they have the license from other companies. And they make translations. With minimum mistakes and good prices. The problem is, they are not Wizards-licensed. And all the basic stuff is Wizards products. So we need Devir to get these books. Forgotten, Eberron, SW, etc. Or the Completes, Manuals, etc. And because of Devir, we don´t have WoD, Gurps, CoC and others too. So most of Jambô´s products are less important/wanted books, unfortunelly.
Luis_Dragunov 06-12-07, 01:22 PM	Here in Portugal it is pretty much the same. Devir is known for the comic and MtG sales but little else. Heck, you complain about not having translated books? I complain about having NO books at all. I live some 30kms away from Lisbon and I have to scour the nation's capital to find a store who does sell the books - and in english, if I might add. That's why I've recently taken to order most of them. Fortunately, me and my fellow players all read english pretty well. I don't think we could explain the rules to someone who couldn't, though. Our sessions are pretty much a pidgin of portuguese with english expressions like "spell level" and "attack of opportunity" xD
XumeX 06-12-07, 01:35 PM	Our sessions are pretty much a pidgin of portuguese with english expressions like "spell level" and "attack of opportunity" xD Hehehe, that also happens a lot in Brazil.
Onslaught[IT] 06-12-07, 01:48 PM	It was more expensive and, yet, had the same problems of bad translation. Correction A) The portuguese version of PHB3.5 had *worst* errors (not to say *more* errors) than the older PHB3.0. Correction B) The difference is more than 60-to-80 reais. Give that fact that many things that affect the price of the book are paid in dollar, and nowadays a dollar is cheaper, the books should be cheaper too. Besides, back in 3.0 a imported PHB was more expensive than it's Portuguese version... but now, it's the opposite. If you want to save money, you but things in english. That's just nonsense. Here in Portugal it is pretty much the same. Devir is known for the comic and MtG sales but little else. Heck, you complain about not having translated books? I complain about having NO books at all. I live some 30kms away from Lisbon and I have to scour the nation's capital to find a store who does sell the books - and in english, if I might add. That's why I've recently taken to order most of them. Here in Brazil things are not much different. I don't know about other capitals, but there's only a few stores that sell imported RPG books. I live in São Paulo, biggest city of the whole contry, almost as big as NY, and... heck... here we have five stores at best that sell imported rpg books. I can name three: Devir, Moonshadows (fair prices) and Dwarven Halls (which is quite new). It's a better-than-nothing situation.
psionico_drow 06-12-07, 01:51 PM	Yes, it is here one more angry Brazilian with the representative of Wizards in the Brasil.:D
Lecen_of_Mitran 06-12-07, 03:10 PM	There are now, brazilians, spanish, portuguese and even some americans complaining about the treatment (or better, lack of) we´re receiving from "Devir", but, even so, not a single WizO has stopped by to say anything, at all. What´s going on? Wizards of the Coast doesn´t care?
TZC 06-12-07, 03:34 PM	Please Wizards, cast your spells and save us from the curse of this tyrannic and evil Devir!
RickDanger 06-12-07, 03:34 PM	Greetings to all, I would like to stand by these complaints regarding Devir, altough I think I understand their position. So why keep the license? Why not give up of the books? Devir wants to keep control of as many licenses as it can, even if it can't actually do nothing with them. As long as they have it, no one else has. Not only does this allow Devir to restrain their competition, but it also helps them to focus the gaming market on their more popular products. For example, let's consider that, for Devir, Magic: the Gathering is more profitable than D&D. If you are a potential roleplayer, you could probably be playing Magic: the Gathering - so, if you have no RPGs to buy, you will probably spend that money on M:tG. If Devir decides that supporting Magic: the Gathering is more cost-effective, why distract their potential customers with less lucrative alternatives? Better to buy their license and run them to the ground. Of course, it's up to WotC to decide if this strategy is acceptable or if Devir can basically get away with anything as long as they keep on buying tons and tons of product. On the other hand, it's up to the customers to find better ways to spend their money. If neither Devir nor WotC address this situation, perhaps this untapped market potential can support brazilian-made RPGs? There are some already. Go for it.
docballen 06-12-07, 03:34 PM	Hi there! I'm an American, and I may not truly understand what the Brazilians are going through. But, I think I can make a suggestion. Translate the books yourself! I'm not saying you should SELL them. Many of the people who have posted on this forum have excellent English-- and hopefully you speak your original Portuguese. So maybe if you try to translate one yourself you might see why they are so expensive, or come out so slowly. I have a feeling that some of the words do not translate-- I mean you could write a Portuguese translation for "attack of opportunity"-- for example-- but it might end up being a sentence instead of just a few words. If everyone who posted to this thread could get together and agree to do one book-- and not sell it, just share the information with their friends-- it might make the job easier. Have you offered to translate for Devir????? Money is rare in my home too. But at least I can go into my local book store and look at the books. You can't even do that.
D10 06-12-07, 03:38 PM	Hey, another Brazilian here, didnt got to read the whole topic, but i did read the first page, and heres my rant. Since i bought players handbook and DM handbook i never bought another book from Devir again. ever. Its not only badly translated with many translation errors that can mess up the game if you dont know it very well, but the book quality it self is horrible, Devir book's are very fragile and now 2 years later it looks like its falling apart. You get all those amazing "benefits" for a cost much higher than importing book's in lets say, amazon, specially today that the dolar is going down. Take for instance, complete champion, 19 dolars on amazon, if you import like 5 books at the same time, it doesnt get that expensive because you dont need to pay more to transport just because you bought more books, now in brazil you would see that book costing equivalent to like 40-50 dolars! (seriusly) This plus the lack on content, of event, and the reputation rpg has, have killed all my hope for Devir, and seeing good Brazilian content If theres anything that can be done to change that, ill be glad to suport it. -D10
docballen 06-12-07, 03:40 PM	There are now, brazilians, spanish, portuguese and even some americans complaining about the treatment (or better, lack of) we´re receiving from "Devir", but, even so, not a single WizO has stopped by to say anything, at all. What´s going on? Wizards of the Coast doesn´t care? OK I think I can help here. WizO is someone who works for this website only. They don't work on selling books, they don't answer mail. What they do is keep me from writing obscenities on this forum, and make sure that discussions are to the point and stay on topic. They might be able to tell you where to send your e-mail to get your problems taken care of, but they can't help you with Devir. (And it might be taking WizO a few minutes to get this information...)
D10 06-12-07, 03:43 PM	Yea, silence in this kind of topic usually means they are discussing it in wizard =) because this deals with jobs careers and lives, you woulnt want to rush yourself would ya ?
Kimble500 06-12-07, 03:53 PM	Translate the books yourself! You can´t do that either. If anyone started to translate, even if they don´t start to sell them, it´s against the law. You can translate for your personal use (many people do that), but you can distribute it. Some information (like SRD) were translated, because you can distribute it. But you can´t do the same with the books.
Lecen_of_Mitran 06-12-07, 04:43 PM	OK I think I can help here. WizO is someone who works for this website only. They don't work on selling books, they don't answer mail. What they do is keep me from writing obscenities on this forum, and make sure that discussions are to the point and stay on topic. They might be able to tell you where to send your e-mail to get your problems taken care of, but they can't help you with Devir. (And it might be taking WizO a few minutes to get this information...) I Know that they are not the ones that are the responsible for our problem in here and that they are here to watch how the foruns are going. BUT, as I said before: they can talk with the right people about it. Why the silence? They think that sooner or later this thread will stop and vanish?
Onslaught[IT] 06-12-07, 04:53 PM	I have a feeling that some of the words do not translate-- I mean you could write a Portuguese translation for "attack of opportunity"-- for example-- but it might end up being a sentence instead of just a few words. You're half-right. Many game terms sound quite stupid/dumb/nonsense when you translate it right way (pick the bilingual dictionary, open in the right word and use the word that is there). That's true, but Devir don't stick with a pattern. First edition 3.0 PHB had a sword named "espadão", which is a direct translation form "greatsword". But it sounds very dumb in portuguese. We have "Talentos" (you guessed right, Talents) as "Feats"... it just became a problem when WotC released D20 Modern. Sometimes Devir's translations sound/look amateur. And that's just the peak of the iceberg. I bought my first english book when PHB 3.5 in portuguese was released. Why's that? The book had the worst proofreading I've ever seen... we had 3.0 rules in it, changes missing, misuse of tabulation ("Armor Dex Bonus" instead of "Armor Check Penalty"), etc etc etc. Its not only badly translated with many translation errors that can mess up the game if you dont know it very well, but the book quality it self is horrible, Devir book's are very fragile and now 2 years later it looks like its falling apart. I have to disagree with this. If your book is falling apart it's because you don't take care of it. I've all-game-use books (like PHB) that are still in perfect shape - well, almost perfect. Take for instance, complete champion, 19 dolars on amazon, if you import like 5 books at the same time, it doesnt get that expensive because you dont need to pay more to transport just because you bought more books, now in brazil you would see that book costing equivalent to like 40-50 dolars! You got this wrong, too. Cheaper books (the ones Amazon sell at 19 dollars, with recomended prices of 29,95 dollares) cost less here, around 35 dollars (translated version). The ones that cost around 40 dollars are the books that have recomened price of 35 dollars (23 on amazon). I'm not saying that you're wrong and our situation is good. I'm just saying that you're exagerating a bit.
D10 06-12-07, 05:16 PM	well, Onslaught[IT], i have Devir books and imported books that i bought the same time, the Devir books are falling apart while all other books are in PERFECT shape, not only that, but i noticed that the material they use for doing the books is worse, just have the two to compare and you will see it. About the pricing, players handbook 3.5 was around 80-90 reais when it was released here, importing it would save me arond 20% of the price, i wouldnt get a crappy quality book mistranslated and wouldnt support a louzy company.
magaiverr 06-12-07, 06:58 PM	Another Brazilian guy here ^^ Another lover of rpg if devir help some could be better but in brazil we know that brazil is brazil i want one asnwer from wizards or devir about this we make a protest , a lot people come whit their complains and nothing happens =/ trully sad i hope , this time we can get some asnwer from some part maybe from wizards or from devir i think is more easy wizards make something , than devir asnwer my e-mails hahaha
Nobunaga Oda 06-12-07, 07:43 PM	Another Brazilian guy here ^^ Another lover of rpg if devir help some could be better but in brazil we know that brazil is brazil i want one asnwer from wizards or devir about this we make a protest , a lot people come whit their complains and nothing happens =/ trully sad i hope , this time we can get some asnwer from some part maybe from wizards or from devir i think is more easy wizards make something , than devir asnwer my e-mails hahaha Just calm down please. I belive that one WizO is passing our complains to someone who can help us. I say just wait and see. I beleive that Wizards will at least say if they can´t do anything about this.
Holy_Beholder 06-12-07, 07:58 PM	Organize a boycott. If nobody is buying any products, WoTC will have to put someone better in. Devir does work across multiple countries, but it might be possible.
Miyudo 06-12-07, 08:19 PM	Who doesn't know yet... http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=12690119#post12690119 Thanks Mike And thanks Lecen_of_Mitran for the iniciative !! Valeu !! hehehe....:D
Lecen_of_Mitran 06-12-07, 08:47 PM	Organize a boycott. If nobody is buying any products, WoTC will have to put someone better in. Devir does work across multiple countries, but it might be possible. How can we do that when there is nothing to buy? That´s what´ve been complaing: Devir does NOT publish any D&D books although it has bough the license.
seu_madruga 06-12-07, 09:28 PM	Just calm down please. I belive that one WizO is passing our complains to someone who can help us. I say just wait and see. I beleive that Wizards will at least say if they can´t do anything about this. I guessed many brazilians would be swarming here, trying to draw some attention from Wizards. But is it the right place to do so? I may be just going all over what all the other guys have said, but it's kind of hard for Americans to understand that not everyone in Brazil speaks English, Spanish or any other language but Portuguese. English is indeed taught at every school, but, sadly, it's very hard to learn something in school here, specially if we're talking about public education. Though RPGs are usually played by an educated minority, proficiency in English is not as common as it is in developed countries. And, even then, I would rather have my D&D books in my native language. I can read and write and speak English, but I understand that I'm not part of a majority here. Wizards of the Coast should have a means of monitoring translations and customers' opinions all over the countries in which D&D is translated into other languages. We've been complaining about Devir for some years now, and it's the first time someone thought about coming here and telling WotC what's been going on in Brazil. The thing is: books here are really expensive (as people have already said, it's relatively cheaper to buy an imported D&D book than a translated one, printed in Brazil), not only RPG books, but all kinds of books. Being hard cover and printed in special paper, D&D books are very expensive if compared to paperback books (like some White Wolf supplements and, oddly enough, books like "sword and fist", which were paperback and B&W). IMHO, if we had paperback B&W versions of the core books, allied with a good translation, they would be really cheaper. But that's me. No-one at Wizards or Devir will even consider this possibility, :) cheers! And, Brazilian fellows... vamo meter bronca na Devir! Já passou da hora...
Nobunaga Oda 06-12-07, 09:36 PM	I guessed many brazilians would be swarming here, trying to draw some attention from Wizards. But is it the right place to do so? I may be just going all over what all the other guys have said, but it's kind of hard for Americans to understand that not everyone in Brazil speaks English, Spanish or any other language but Portuguese. English is indeed taught at every school, but, sadly, it's very hard to learn something in school here, specially if we're talking about public education. Though RPGs are usually played by an educated minority, proficiency in English is not as common as it is in developed countries. And, even then, I would rather have my D&D books in my native language. I can read and write and speak English, but I understand that I'm not part of a majority here. Wizards of the Coast should have a means of monitoring translations and customers' opinions all over the countries in which D&D is translated into other languages. We've been complaining about Devir for some years now, and it's the first time someone thought about coming here and telling WotC what's been going on in Brazil. The thing is: books here are really expensive (as people have already said, it's relatively cheaper to buy an imported D&D book than a translated one, printed in Brazil), not only RPG books, but all kinds of books. Being hard cover and printed in special paper, D&D books are very expensive if compared to paperback books (like some White Wolf supplements and, oddly enough, books like "sword and fist", which were paperback and B&W). IMHO, if we had paperback B&W versions of the core books, allied with a good translation, they would be really cheaper. But that's me. No-one at Wizards or Devir will even consider this possibility, :) cheers! And, Brazilian fellows... vamo meter bronca na Devir! Já passou da hora... I agree with all your Points Madruga. And yes, I agree, we need to show that this isn´t a minor issue, that the gaming landscape is suffering here in Brazil. Not just D&D, but all the other systems under Devir´s umbrella. But I think moaning about WOTC doing "nothing" when a WizO already said that he is looking in the matter is a little too much. Let us voice our concern at Devir in a polite way. And I have to say, the ideia of releasing books with similar values as "Sword and the Fist" is a GREAT ideia! I would have no problem for paying 30-45 bucks for a PHB black and white soft cover. Heck, I even prefer it.
Anonimous000 06-12-07, 10:15 PM	Hi there! I'm an American, and I may not truly understand what the Brazilians are going through. But, I think I can make a suggestion. Translate the books yourself! I'm not saying you should SELL them. Many of the people who have posted on this forum have excellent English-- and hopefully you speak your original Portuguese. So maybe if you try to translate one yourself you might see why they are so expensive, or come out so slowly. I have a feeling that some of the words do not translate-- I mean you could write a Portuguese translation for "attack of opportunity"-- for example-- but it might end up being a sentence instead of just a few words. If everyone who posted to this thread could get together and agree to do one book-- and not sell it, just share the information with their friends-- it might make the job easier. Have you offered to translate for Devir????? Money is rare in my home too. But at least I can go into my local book store and look at the books. You can't even do that. Transation ins something expensive? Yes, it is, but Devir doesn't pay the usual amount for translators. Actually I've heard they pay under half the usual prices. Usualy translation is paid by "Lauda" (Sorry, I don't know the right term in English) wich is a certains number os lines (I think a Lauda is 30 or 40 lines, but not sure). Devir pays by page sometimes (if not always). I can't say this is true, but I heard for some players that already worked for Devir as Game Masters that sometimes the person who should do the translation simply used the Microsoft Word tool of Translation, beause the payment was not worth the hard work. Then we ask, if they pay so bad, bad enough to say its not a big surprise de job is poor, why the books are still so expensive? And about the quality of the books, WotC books are made to endure years of gaming and still be usable, Devir books are made to be discartaded e bought again.
taeghen 06-12-07, 10:27 PM	And I have to say, the ideia of releasing books with similar values as "Sword and the Fist" is a GREAT ideia! I would have no problem for paying 30-45 bucks for a PHB black and white soft cover. Heck, I even prefer it. I must admit I also found it a great idea! And I'm quite sure most players wouldn't mind it too... Heck, most people in Brazil had only xerox copies a few years ago!
taeghen 06-12-07, 11:11 PM	I've created a blog where we can discuss and organize our ideas, and maybe create a fan-based translation site. The link is http://ubrpg.blogspot.com/. Everyone is invited to answer, either in English or in Portuguese. Thanks for the attention. Taeghen
DiegoRain 06-13-07, 12:17 AM	One more brasilian supporting the requeriment
Diogo Salazar 06-13-07, 12:26 AM	Hi there! I'm an American, and I may not truly understand what the Brazilians are going through. But, I think I can make a suggestion. Translate the books yourself! Have you offered to translate for Devir????? Heh, I've sent several e-mails offering my help as translator, and saying that I would even sign a contract whose only payment would be a copy of the book translated but they never answered us. Yes, I translated some chapters from some books, Star Wars mostly, but for personal use only, I'm no fan of violating copyrights and distributing the translation would be a copyright violation. About the people from Portugal, man, I feel sorry for you, and here I thought we had a bad scenario, you have a worst one... Someone said something earlier about Devir being a business and they hold their rights so no other publishers can compete with them. Yes, I understand this and this is called monopoly. Sure, there are laws in our country against this kind of things, but unfortunately, we still are a "banana republic" with a slower-than-slug judiciary who won't care about judging this monopoly that affects so few people while there are bigger beers companies here trying to get a monopoly of our market... A few monthes ago, Devir was caught in some kind of tax scheme. Considering how fast crimes are judged here, I believe that on 2020 we may have a final, decisive sentence...
Anonimous000 06-13-07, 02:55 AM	A few monthes ago, Devir was caught in some kind of tax scheme. Considering how fast crimes are judged here, I believe that on 2020 we may have a final, decisive sentence... I believe that this is the case involving Comics Store, about M:tG importation and fees. And this is the very reason for Spell Brasil site being off-line and forcing many of the brazilians here to migrate to the Spell Forever board. To clear the case for our american friends here: both Devir and Comics Store import M:tG card in English from WotC, and by brazilian law its considered a Game, paying some high fees. Comics Store imported it as a game and payed the fees, Devir imported it as RPG Books (as it was made some years ago, but the law changed and consider it a game now), so it payed no fees at all, as books don't pay fees. Comics Store denounced (is this word correct?) it, and then they entered in an apuration process, to determine who's doing what and what is right. This takes some years here, don't ask me why.
Sagramor 06-13-07, 03:08 AM	Well, two things to say... I have to desagree that the quality of the books is bad. I mean, the paper, the print, etc. That´s all ok to me. I have Devir´s books and imported ones and can say they are equal. I was just taking a look on some american sites like bestbuy, amazon, etc. and I´ve found one of them (don´t remember wich one, I think it was amazon) selling a "combo" with the three corerule books (PHB, DMG, MM) for something about U$58,00... I just know that to receiving it at my home (here, in Brasil) would cost me an amount of U$70,00... I would spend something about U$120,00 if I bought the same books here.
Fabius Maximus 06-13-07, 07:36 AM	Wow. And here I thought Amigo (the former german D&D publisher) was bad...
danzibr 06-13-07, 08:58 AM	"Can I equip my Fullblade with my little gnome?"). Ahh, great quote. But yeah, I totally agree that this Devir Livraria business isn't right. The fun and love of D&D should be spread everywhere, overcoming language boundaries. I mean, I'm not really sure Wizards of the Coast can browbeat a foreign company into getting out decent quality translated books (and, consequently, I'm not sure this forum is the right spot to carry out this post), but something should be done. And maybe this is the right spot, who knows? So... in short, Devir Livraria certainly doesn't seem to be doing its job and I agree something should be done. Dan
Roquen 06-13-07, 09:02 AM	Hey, another brazilian here. Not only the Devir translations sucks but also the material they use to make the books. If you take the translated book and the original one you can see a big difference in the quality. I can tell by my two 3.0 Player's Handbook. About the translations: the guys of Darksun Brasil (http://www.darksun.com.br/) not only have made a quicker translation of the psionic stuff but also a LOT better one. THAT is good portuguese. Thanks.
seu_madruga 06-13-07, 10:54 AM	I'll have to disagree with Sagramor. Devir uses poorer material than WotC and all the other publishing houses. I once bought a "players' guide to the Sabbat" (from White Wolf) in a store. There were many Brazilian copies of the book, but only a single American book. Something that really caught my eye was the fact that the original book was considerably thicker than Devir's, and so I bought it. To my utter dismay, the contents were exactly the same (at least I didn't get a poor translation)... I compared my book with two Brazilian translations from Devir, and the pages contained exactly the same stuff, but as the paper was thinner, the Brazilian book seemed to have less contents. I also have some imported D&D books, and I have to say my PHB, when compared to my friends', is considerably thicker and the pages are smoother. Devir uses a rougher kind of paper. Man, just touch the books and you'll feel the difference. Devir's books are way too rough, the kind of paper is similar, but of poor quality.
ALL_242 06-13-07, 12:37 PM	Onslaught[IT] is a friend of mine. We play together and I must say the reason why his books are still impeccable is that he takes REALLY good care of them. I mean, if you try to open the book more than 60º he kill you! Hehehehe The quality of the paper/print is not me real concern. Sure, the original English version is better but the national is not bad. Just take good care of them and they’ll last. We have bigger problems. Everyone here said about the books being expensive but, for people from other countries it may not seem so. Just so them could see, imagine spending like 15% a months wage on just one core rule book! That should give perspective. That’s the Brazilian situation. Or, let’s say, about the translations, imagine translating something like “counter-attack” as “opposed-attack”. That is the kind of bad translations were facing. Not to mention things like “forgetting a 0” on the price of an armor, making the full-plate armor cost as much as a mithril shirt. Translating the books ourselves is considered against the law here. There are several reasons for Devir, but none for WoTC letting this pass. They are losing quite a good opportunity here. And I’m truly sorry for the Portuguese people. At least here we have SOME support, even if it’s not from Devir (Devil??? :devil: Hehehehe).
Lecen_of_Mitran 06-13-07, 01:05 PM	Ahh, great quote. But yeah, I totally agree that this Devir Livraria business isn't right. The fun and love of D&D should be spread everywhere, overcoming language boundaries. I mean, I'm not really sure Wizards of the Coast can browbeat a foreign company into getting out decent quality translated books (and, consequently, I'm not sure this forum is the right spot to carry out this post), but something should be done. And maybe this is the right spot, who knows? So... in short, Devir Livraria certainly doesn't seem to be doing its job and I agree something should be done. Dan The, Wizards should at least let the license expire, so that another company can publish those books here in Brazil, instead of Devir. I believe that didn´t happen so far because no had complained for real. o, there was no way that Wizards could know how bad Devir is handling it´s brand.
BronzeWyrmling 06-13-07, 01:10 PM	I am also brazilian, and almost always I play with newbies. I just can't have the same care that your friend Onslaught[IT] has. the book passes through everyone in the table a lot of times, and they look it up a lot. That's why we need real quality in the materials they make it. And that's why I'm afraid of buying anything from Devir. My PHB is still one-pieced, but you can clearly see it's got its ages. [Insano... aqui, criançada]
seu_madruga 06-13-07, 01:17 PM	The, Wizards should at least let the license expire, so that another company can publish those books here in Brazil, instead of Devir. I believe that didn´t happen so far because no had complained for real. o, there was no way that Wizards could know how bad Devir is handling it´s brand. I know it's a little far-fetched, but WotC should have some kind of overseer supervising Devir's (and all other publishing houses that translate their books) translations. After all, their name's at stake too; Devir's acting on Wizards' behalf, and surely the customers will think that the company's not giving a damn about what's being done with their material.
Valberto 06-13-07, 01:34 PM	And do you know what is the sadiest think about all this? The guys from Devir already know about this protest. And what they do? What they aways do: burry their heads in to the ground waiting for this storm to pass up. Not even a line in discussion groups, not even here. That is whatt I call service Iso900.
psionico_drow 06-13-07, 02:11 PM	Leaning that Wizards, due to this problem, the Brazilian market should be analyzed is strong in the purchase of their products and to choose a representative to the height of their books, because with it is that we are, it doesn't deserve the "mark" which acts, already described by my Brazilian siblings.
Kumaiti 06-13-07, 03:40 PM	Another brazilian to support the cause. But let me remind you guys of something: D&D and all the other RPGs are NOT the main source of profit for Devir. The main source of profit for Devir is MAGIC: THE GATHERING. MtG players buy MUCH more than D&D players. Anyone who goes to Devir on saturdays know how many MtG players are there EVERY saturday... From the WotC's standpoint, I believe that as long as MtG sells, there isn't much reason to end the licensing contract with Devir. Why would they stop selling thousands and thousands of booster packs just so that a few hundred more RPG books would be sold? Of course they could just split the lines and give the RPG books to another company, but it would incur its own costs, which would have to be offset by book sells. So, unless another company could prove with numbers that the market would spend more on books than it would cost to split the lines or end the licensing with Devir, I highly doubt the the "money guys" on WotC (more likely on Hasbro) will have any interested in dealing with Devir.
Kuroimaken 06-13-07, 04:25 PM	And let's not touch on the subject of the price of dice... or where to find them, for that matter. Alas, not all hope is lost. Jambô editora does a pretty good job of both publishing AND translating, but sadly is local and doesn't have the rights to plenty of D&D stuff. Which means, they're stuck with stuff by Mongoose and other third-party products. They also import things at reasonable enough rates, such that the PHB in Portuguese at the Jambô store costs $20 less than the imported version.
Dodo900 06-13-07, 06:16 PM	WHAT A F***!!!!! WIZARDS, WE ARE HERE!!!!!!!:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
Diogo Salazar 06-13-07, 06:53 PM	But let me remind you guys of something: D&D and all the other RPGs are NOT the main source of profit for Devir. The main source of profit for Devir is MAGIC: THE GATHERING. MtG players buy MUCH more than D&D players. Anyone who goes to Devir on saturdays know how many MtG players are there EVERY saturday... From the WotC's standpoint, I believe that as long as MtG sells, there isn't much reason to end the licensing contract with Devir. Why would they stop selling thousands and thousands of booster packs just so that a few hundred more RPG books would be sold? Of course they could just split the lines and give the RPG books to another company, but it would incur its own costs, which would have to be offset by book sells. So, unless another company could prove with numbers that the market would spend more on books than it would cost to split the lines or end the licensing with Devir, I highly doubt the the "money guys" on WotC (more likely on Hasbro) will have any interested in dealing with Devir. Well, as I had said before, I do have some friens who still play MtG but I don't really know what and why is the problem, but they also have issues with Devir too. Well, maybe it's just the MtG players from Recife (my hometown), but they sure have complaints about Wizards. I remember last year when I helped them with the pre-release (Kamigawa something I guess...) and some of the people there had T-shirts like: Devir: cost 0; Tap: Destroy MtG in Brazil. So, are they angry or what?
Onslaught[IT] 06-13-07, 07:35 PM	Onslaught[IT] is a friend of mine. We play together and I must say the reason why his books are still impeccable is that he takes REALLY good care of them. I mean, if you try to open the book more than 60º he kill you! You're exaggerating a bit... thought that's close to the truth. I just can't have the same care that your friend Onslaught[IT] has. the book passes through everyone in the table a lot of times, and they look it up a lot. At our table we have more than one book (I'd say 4 or 5 books for 9 people). But I guess everyone is quite careful with other's books. From the WotC's standpoint, I believe that as long as MtG sells, there isn't much reason to end the licensing contract with Devir. Does Devir still translate MtG? I tough they only imported it... so, there's no license contract. And let's not touch on the subject of the price of dice... or where to find them, for that matter. Where to find it? Well, if you live in Sao Paulo you can purchase it on Moonshadows or at Daemon Editora's store (Megaliga?). I don't remember the dice price, but it's about R$2,00 a dice, wich is around one dolar/dice. Isn't that expensive, IMHO. If you're not from Sao Paulo, you still can buy at Moonshadows by internet. Jambô editora does a pretty good job of both publishing AND translating, but sadly is local and doesn't have the rights to plenty of D&D stuff. Which means, they're stuck with stuff by Mongoose and other third-party products. Don't forget Privateer Press ;)! But Jambô is quite small... they would take a lot of time to translate/publish books. Devir is the biggest publisher in this business... and is quite big in another market:comic books and graphic novels... Most famous titles are bublished by Devir, including 300, Lost Girls, Sin City, etc. The problem is that it's RPG section don't have money. Why they don't have money? Because they don't sell books. Why the don't sell books? Because nobody likes what they release. Why nobody likes what they release? because they release crappy or nonsense titles. Why they release crappy or nonsense titles? *That* is beyond comprehension. One could argue that it's just bad management. I'd say it's not *only* that, at least I can't believe it is.
D10 06-13-07, 07:49 PM	;12715970'] I don't remember the dice price, but it's about R$2,00 a dice, wich is around one dolar/dice. Isn't that expensive, IMHO. http://www.chessex.com/Dice/poundofdice.htm Importing is ridicously cheaper than buying dice in national stores
seu_madruga 06-13-07, 08:25 PM	Well, as I had said before, I do have some friens who still play MtG but I don't really know what and why is the problem, but they also have issues with Devir too. Well, maybe it's just the MtG players from Recife (my hometown), but they sure have complaints about Wizards. I remember last year when I helped them with the pre-release (Kamigawa something I guess...) and some of the people there had T-shirts like: Devir: cost 0; Tap: Destroy MtG in Brazil. So, are they angry or what? what reminds me of something ELSE: Anachronism players are also very ****** off because of poor translation and releasing by Devir. In Genghis Khan's card, they translated "without" as "com". I mean, any monkey wielding a dictionary would do better than that. It's almost impossible to make THIS kind of mistake, but Devir, as you know, is tops.
LightningBaron 06-13-07, 09:41 PM	Another brazilian who registered just to post here. Most of you said what NEEDED to be said. By that i mean: the price, the quality of the translations, having no new books in portuguese at all and the list goes on... Onslaught[IT] said that Jambô is a small company, and that they would take a lot time to translate/publish the book... BUT THEY WOULD TRANSLATE/PUBLISH THEM EVENTUALLY! And by doing that, they would grow and make things faster... What i mean is... WOTC would have, maybe, 20 or 30% more profit in the brazilian market that way. Magic: The Gathering? Leave to Devir. It´s the only game they care, to say the least. I guess they only publish translated RPG books to say the other companies "We have, you don´t! S***ERS!" ps: Sorry for poor quality english... lots of time without giving it a good use.
Diogo Salazar 06-13-07, 10:58 PM	what reminds me of something ELSE: Anachronism players are also very ****** off because of poor translation and releasing by Devir. In Genghis Khan's card, they translated "without" as "com". I mean, any monkey wielding a dictionary would do better than that. It's almost impossible to make THIS kind of mistake, but Devir, as you know, is tops. So that the non-brazilian-portuguese could understand. "com" means "with" while "sem" means "without"...
Holy_Beholder 06-13-07, 11:06 PM	How can we do that when there is nothing to buy? That´s what´ve been complaing: Devir does NOT publish any D&D books although it has bough the license. They sell other, non D&D products. And it's not like they are guaranteed to be any good either. Those can be boycotted.
Silvio_Martins 06-14-07, 09:08 AM	Yep, but Spell Forever is just a forum, not a site. That's why i didn't linked it. Just to clear to all non-brazilians: Dragão Brasil was for a long time the only RPG magazine in Brazil. So, even now (that they are not the only one), the name "Dragão Brasil" have a immeasurable influence. Nibelug, Just to keep all readers clear with the subject. As the editor od Dragão Brasil, I must say you are wrong. Devir doesn´t own Dragão Brazil. nor any other publisher house. I worked at Devir for over 10 years, but I decided to leave and work as editor of the magazine. The mais problem here is that, yes, Devir own all the big names in RPG (White Wolf, D&D, GURPS) and they are not fulfilling our needs. Thats true, that´s a fact The problem here is that if we, as gamers, if we do want to be listened we must talk correctly with no assumptions or theories that make us look weak, and full of hate. Things like you said so promply, that Devbir owns the magazine can be used against us. They could say to Wizards... Look how they don´t know what they are talking about... just kids wth no candies... So pay attention on what you are saying. For less than that we lost a lot of things good for the hobbie. And I know that for a fact. While people played games for yeras I worked with game for this time or even more. And You may chack with all the publishers, from Daemon, to Jambo, Devir, D3, Tevisan, Cassaro, and any other person that works here in Brazil for RPG. I always stood for the gamers. Its a hard and long fight. Cheers. Silvio PS- you can get my email inmy profile, if you want to talk more, feel free to write me.
Nobunaga Oda 06-14-07, 09:25 AM	Silvio: I apologize. I was the one who brought up the Dragão Brazil + devir thingy. But that´s how the magazine was portrayed to me, as a big "marketing" machine for Devir. If you say this isn´t the true, then I beleive you, since the editions I have here does contain some material from other sources.
Lecen_of_Mitran 06-14-07, 10:26 AM	Nibelug, Just to keep all readers clear with the subject. As the editor od Dragão Brasil, I must say you are wrong. Devir doesn´t own Dragão Brazil. nor any other publisher house. I worked at Devir for over 10 years, but I decided to leave and work as editor of the magazine. The mais problem here is that, yes, Devir own all the big names in RPG (White Wolf, D&D, GURPS) and they are not fulfilling our needs. Thats true, that´s a fact The problem here is that if we, as gamers, if we do want to be listened we must talk correctly with no assumptions or theories that make us look weak, and full of hate. Things like you said so promply, that Devir owns the magazine can be used against us. They could say to Wizards... Look how they don´t know what they are talking about... just kids wth no candies... So pay attention on what you are saying. For less than that we lost a lot of things good for the hobbie. And I know that for a fact. While people played games for years I worked with game for this time or even more. And You may chack with all the publishers, from Daemon, to Jambo, Devir, D3, Tevisan, Cassaro, and any other person that works here in Brazil for RPG. I always stood for the gamers. Its a hard and long fight. Cheers. Silvio PS- you can get my email inmy profile, if you want to talk more, feel free to write me. You said you worked with Devir, can you tell us why they treat us like that? Why the don´t answer our e-mails (And I´m not talking about hate mails, just simple stuff like asking when Draconomicon will be released) back, why they don´t update it´s D&D site, why the were telling 3.0 books after releasing 3.5 core rulebooks, do they know that now, we´re getting togeter to do something about this? Thanks, Edit: As the editor of Dragão Brasil, I presume you must have contact with the Devir´s staff. Can you tell us if they give your magazine anykind of infomramtion on future releases or similar? Or they leave you in the dark?
Onslaught[IT] 06-14-07, 10:38 AM	Onslaught[IT] said that Jambô is a small company, and that they would take a lot time to translate/publish the book... BUT THEY WOULD TRANSLATE/PUBLISH THEM EVENTUALLY! And by doing that, they would grow and make things faster... My point is: it would take Jambô a long time to release it's first book. And, probably, it wouldn't have a good distribution around the country, since it's a small publisher. One extra thing I noticed: some common bookstores used to have a RPG section (especially Saraiva) for national books (i.e.: Devir, Daemon...), but nowadays it's just gone in the store I usually go. I even remember PHB 3.5 displayed as it were an important book when it was released. http://www.chessex.com/Dice/poundofdice.htm Importing is ridicously cheaper than buying dice in national stores As far as I know, Moonshadow's dices are supposed to be high quality dices. I don't know if they import them in this kind of bag, which: *Does not have d4's, which is a basic D&D/D20 dice; *Have d30's, which are useless in most games played here; *Have sets of the same color, so they have a full set (d4,6,8,10,12,20) of black marble dices. That said, the site you posted have dices for .50 cents of dollar. If you put brasilian taxes (that can easily double the price), plys the store's profit, you can get dices at R$2,00. I know that Daemon is trying to make dices, and they're cheaper than imported ones. They were selling these dices at EIRPG last year.
Lord_Valek 06-14-07, 03:25 PM	Hi, I’m Brazilian too, and I would like to add something in this conversation. I’m a D&D Miniatures player and like 200 other miniature players, we have problems with Devir. We are in June, 1 month before the released of Night Below, and the current booster sell by Devir are War drums and War of Dragoon Queen. They decide to ignore us, and they didn’t buy the new collections, they stop on Blood Wars, after they sell a entire case of Blood Wars. We have minis because we bought on EBay or because some player decide to bring a case to win some money. It’s Pathetic, but this is not everything. Here in Brazil a booster of D&D costs 35 Dollars (70 Reais). Even if you apply all transport costs, insurance, tax, and etc, you have a total cost of 15 dollars more or less and they try to have a 100% return of. When you pay 10 dollars for a booster, we pay 3 times of it. Other example is the Colossal Red Dragon, here he costs 163 Dollars (326 Reais). I can go on and on, but doesn’t worth my time. I’m here just to take this **** out of my chest. Sorry for my bad English.
lastknightleft 06-14-07, 06:25 PM	American here, but I took the time to read the entire thread and I must say I found the OPs point very well made, we complain about content when at least there is plenty to pick and choose from Just to help you understand some of the legal problems 1. If Devir purchased the rights and there is no time frame to renegotiate the contract it is entirely possible that WotC has no choice in the matter because they cannot resell or renegotiate 2. WotC may be contractually obligated to remain silent on the topic, and if Devir is as large as I get the impression it is, then even should someone want to voice their 2cp they can't. 3. WotC may only be allowed to do something if they can prove that Devir is grossly mismanaging their products, if Devir does well enough with MtG sales then WotC may have to take the hit on D&D even knowing that there is a strong market in Brazil. I think the largest problem is the fact that a large company like Devir may have enough lawyers to keep WotC compliant since even the profits from better sales would be dwindled away in litigation and lawyers fees. My only answer for you may be to start being chaotic good instead of lawful good. Translate and distribute (yes I know you'd be breaking the law but if there are enough people doing it individually on a small scale it would get the same distribution and Devir couldn't track and enforce it, after all a swarm of locust is much more deadly than a rattlesnake) the material yourselves independantly for free (no organized connections) and encourage online ordering from sites like amazon.com that way WotC gets the money they deserve and you cut out Devir and everyone gets what they want until eventually WotC can effect legal change. I for one support WotC even if I don't agree with everything they do, but if they started shaping up like Devir believe me I would be taking my own advice.
Drowmage 06-14-07, 06:42 PM	Another brazilian to support the cause. I learn to read english from D&D books :D
Nibelung_ajr 06-14-07, 06:49 PM	There's some examples of Devir translation that i found in my book just because i read it and think "that's something wrong here". Livro do Jogador 3.5 (Player's Handbook 3.5): -Rangers get his favored enemy bonus on attack and damage rolls against then; -Splint Mail cost is 20 gp; -The original table of Armors are unaligned. They say something like "Armo/Shield cost", "Maximum Bonus", Armor Check Dex Bonus", "Arcane Spell Penalty" and "Speed Failure Chance"; -1 kg (2 lb.) of Soap have a wheight of 0,5 kg (1 lb.); -The Special Attack "Trip" was translated as "Imobilizar" (Yeah, Immobilize). And have the fun part of "An Immobilized character is tripped"; -The Special Attack "Sunder" was translated as "Separar". Looking in a dictionary, the translation appear to be right, except because we never use "separar" as the verb to says that a waepon/shield was Sundered. A lot of good words can be choosen instead of that (Quebrar, Partir). Just think as if "Sunder" was called "Split" and you can barelly understand what we have; -They use the same term to "caster level" and "spellcaster level": "Nível de Conjurador". In this book it don't mean much, but when you play with suplements...; -Mage Hand moves at 415m/round instead of 4,5m/round. Converting, this means that ours Mage Hand moves at 1383 fts/round. Make this hold a little stone and you have a bullet! -Sleep affects 2D4 HD's. Yep, another copy-paste from the 3.0 books. All of this is just of the Core Rulebook I! I have a list of the Dungeon Master Guide, Monster Manual and Complete Warrior too, but i think just this can made you think about our situation. And just to quote again: This was the errors that i noted something wrong and verified the SRD to double-check. I believe that we have more errors that just don't affected me.
Lecen_of_Mitran 06-14-07, 08:56 PM	American here, but I took the time to read the entire thread and I must say I found the OPs point very well made, we complain about content when at least there is plenty to pick and choose from Just to help you understand some of the legal problems 1. If Devir purchased the rights and there is no time frame to renegotiate the contract it is entirely possible that WotC has no choice in the matter because they cannot resell or renegotiate 2. WotC may be contractually obligated to remain silent on the topic, and if Devir is as large as I get the impression it is, then even should someone want to voice their 2cp they can't. 3. WotC may only be allowed to do something if they can prove that Devir is grossly mismanaging their products, if Devir does well enough with MtG sales then WotC may have to take the hit on D&D even knowing that there is a strong market in Brazil. I think the largest problem is the fact that a large company like Devir may have enough lawyers to keep WotC compliant since even the profits from better sales would be dwindled away in litigation and lawyers fees. My only answer for you may be to start being chaotic good instead of lawful good. Translate and distribute (yes I know you'd be breaking the law but if there are enough people doing it individually on a small scale it would get the same distribution and Devir couldn't track and enforce it, after all a swarm of locust is much more deadly than a rattlesnake) the material yourselves independantly for free (no organized connections) and encourage online ordering from sites like amazon.com that way WotC gets the money they deserve and you cut out Devir and everyone gets what they want until eventually WotC can effect legal change. I for one support WotC even if I don't agree with everything they do, but if they started shaping up like Devir believe me I would be taking my own advice. I don´t believe that exist somekind of perpetual (forever) contract and Wizards could keep letting Devir sell Magic while another company can publish D&D. Isn´t a little ridiculous going all the way to act illegal in the end? I´m not saying that you said something bad or wrong. Not at all. It´s just that we´re trying to say here that there are a lot of potential buyers that want to buy D&D books, but Wizards will prefer to ignore us and force us to act illegal? Wow... :( There's some examples of Devir translation that i found in my book just because i read it and think "that's something wrong here". Livro do Jogador 3.5 (Player's Handbook 3.5): -Rangers get his favored enemy bonus on attack and damage rolls against then; -Splint Mail cost is 20 gp; -The original table of Armors are unaligned. They say something like "Armo/Shield cost", "Maximum Bonus", Armor Check Dex Bonus", "Arcane Spell Penalty" and "Speed Failure Chance"; -1 kg (2 lb.) of Soap have a wheight of 0,5 kg (1 lb.); -The Special Attack "Trip" was translated as "Imobilizar" (Yeah, Immobilize). And have the fun part of "An Immobilized character is tripped"; -The Special Attack "Sunder" was translated as "Separar". Looking in a dictionary, the translation appear to be right, except because we never use "separar" as the verb to says that a waepon/shield was Sundered. A lot of good words can be choosen instead of that (Quebrar, Partir). Just think as if "Sunder" was called "Split" and you can barelly understand what we have; -They use the same term to "caster level" and "spellcaster level": "Nível de Conjurador". In this book it don't mean much, but when you play with suplements...; -Mage Hand moves at 415m/round instead of 4,5m/round. Converting, this means that ours Mage Hand moves at 1383 fts/round. Make this hold a little stone and you have a bullet! -Sleep affects 2D4 HD's. Yep, another copy-paste from the 3.0 books. All of this is just of the Core Rulebook I! I have a list of the Dungeon Master Guide, Monster Manual and Complete Warrior too, but i think just this can made you think about our situation. And just to quote again: This was the errors that i noted something wrong and verified the SRD to double-check. I believe that we have more errors that just don't affected me. Don´t look in the DMG then. Or better, take a look. Look at the table for armor speciali abilities. You´ll see that improved fire protection cost +5. Yep, that´s right. +5. And you haven´t said the great part: Devir, although it release the books years after they were released in the US, even though, they DON´T correct the mistakes, even with all the erratas that exist in this site (Ow yeah, that cleric spell from the first lvl still gives the character +5 on attack and damage at lvl 20). All, and for the ones that didn´t understand kind of well what Nibelung meant, he said that "sunder" was translated with a meaning like... "split", while the correct should be something like "to brake apart". Why, even with 2 threads going on, there´s still no word from Wizards of the Coast? Are we so pathetic that we don´t matter at all?
katyusha 06-14-07, 09:40 PM	Hey Onslaught. Don't think you are right. Jambo is probably the biggest publisher here outside Devir, and it is publishing more books than all other publishers grouped! I bet it would be a good choice. If they can work with the Iron Kingdoms they can work with anything! ;)
BronzeWyrmling 06-14-07, 09:51 PM	And they are doing a great job with Iron Kingdoms, by the way.
Holy_Beholder 06-15-07, 10:35 AM	-The original table of Armors are unaligned. They say something like "Armo/Shield cost", "Maximum Bonus", Armor Check Dex Bonus", "Arcane Spell Penalty" and "Speed Failure Chance"; I'm completely lost.
lastknightleft 06-15-07, 10:39 AM	I don´t believe that exist somekind of perpetual (forever) contract and Wizards could keep letting Devir sell Magic while another company can publish D&D. Isn´t a little ridiculous going all the way to act illegal in the end? I´m not saying that you said something bad or wrong. Not at all. It´s just that we´re trying to say here that there are a lot of potential buyers that want to buy D&D books, but Wizards will prefer to ignore us and force us to act illegal? Wow... :( No most likely WotC is trying as we speak to effect change now that the problem is brought to their attention, I was just giving you a worse case scenario if I was in fact guessing correctly about a few of the contractual obligations involved, also I agree it is unlikely that there isn't a time table to renegotiate, just stating it as a possibility. And believe me you have my full support if there is anything you think I can do to help. I was just trying to give you a frame of refrence to understand what WotC might have to go through to actually effect change. Why, even with 2 threads going on, there´s still no word from Wizards of the Coast? Are we so pathetic that we don´t matter at all? Because while many of the things I said earlier are just guesses I can with 95% certainty guarantee that WotC is contractually obligated to not espouse displeasure with Devir directly, you'll eventually get an official response from someone, but it will be loosely worded and be something to the effect of "we're doing everything we can to bring customer satisfaction" they won't say anything bad about Devir until they are no longer contractually bound to them. Which may be never because of Magic even if they do switch D&D to another publisher
ChronoDrakan 06-15-07, 11:00 AM	Basically the problem is... - The translations are really bad, even I that do not speak english correctly have done translations better then devir, I have always played a sorceror but when I saw the warmage I decided to try it, my friends do not speak english so I translated everything related to the warmage, his background, abilities, spells, spell list, talents and also translated all the talents in complete arcane so that the others could use too. Everyone noticed that it was perfect, no rule error or even missing words/letters. - The main problem is the time it takes for them to release the books, I bought 3.5 and all other basic rulebooks as soon as they were released, I already had the 3.0, my friend also bought a player´s handbook 3.5 (see, their price is not high, because the book IS good, they have a very nice quality but poor translation), I have bought Complete Divine, Complete Arcane and the Epic book as soon as it got released too, because they are very nice to have when playing and I always advice ppl to buy them, I have been waiting for Complete arcane, Complete Champion, Player´s Handbook 2 but nothing came out instead of it they are going to release "Arcane Evolved" (or something like this, don´t know the translated name correctly), so poor choise of translation is also a problem. That is what I think about it, anyway, even if WotC is not able to help I thank them for launching the D&D game at least and please give some abilities to the sorceror in the future :D . The boy who showed some translation errors up there forgot 1 thing, our warriors have more CA them the other because our tower Shield gives 4 CA (shield CA) and +4 CA (cover CA) acording to their translation.
D'harhan 06-15-07, 11:37 AM	ps: Sorry for poor quality english... lots of time without giving it a good use. Just stopping by for an observation. It's funny that people who apologise for their 'poor English' almost always have near immaculate grammar and are way better at written English than the majority of native speakers. :D
Arhurt 06-15-07, 11:50 AM	Yes, I also want the complete colection of the complete books, but instead they are releasing a dubious "Arcane Evolved"... I mean, I would like alternate rules very much... IF I had the official rules to begin with in the first place... They have released Oriental Adventures... well I would buy it after getting more FR books.... I think they need to expand their line vertically, before they start expanding it horizontally, if you get my meaning... I want Frostburn and races of Stone, not Ravenloft. I`d prefer to have one Full, complete line of D&D books than a series of different incomplete lines we have no use for....
Lecen_of_Mitran 06-15-07, 12:23 PM	No most likely WotC is trying as we speak to effect change now that the problem is brought to their attention, I was just giving you a worse case scenario if I was in fact guessing correctly about a few of the contractual obligations involved, also I agree it is unlikely that there isn't a time table to renegotiate, just stating it as a possibility. And believe me you have my full support if there is anything you think I can do to help. I was just trying to give you a frame of refrence to understand what WotC might have to go through to actually effect change. Because while many of the things I said earlier are just guesses I can with 95% certainty guarantee that WotC is contractually obligated to not espouse displeasure with Devir directly, you'll eventually get an official response from someone, but it will be loosely worded and be something to the effect of "we're doing everything we can to bring customer satisfaction" they won't say anything bad about Devir until they are no longer contractually bound to them. Which may be never because of Magic even if they do switch D&D to another publisher I´m not saying Wizards should say something like "Yep. You´re right buddy, Devir is a bad, bad company. We´re going to punish it for what it done to you all." But, why they didn´t say something like "Thank you for bringing us these complains. We´ll enter in contact with Devir to find out what can we do about it." That´s it. Just that. It´s so hard or difficult? I´m sorry, but this thread is getting bigger and bigger, and we had no word coming from Wizards so far. And that´s sad. Trully sad.
lordmon 06-15-07, 12:33 PM	3. WotC may only be allowed to do something if they can prove that Devir is grossly mismanaging their products, if Devir does well enough with MtG sales then WotC may have to take the hit on D&D even knowing that there is a strong market in Brazil. The problem is we dont know what is happening. The Brazilian market had some problems, but it is still here, and people still want to buy books. We dont know what Devir is saying to WoTC, that there is no market for DD in Brazil, what is not true... Others companies are realising 1 D20 books every month. If there is a problem is the way Devir see the market. Release a book Arcane Evolved for $120 (1/3 of the minimun wage in Brazil) is not a good strategy... Promise GURPS in 2005 and do not release it, or say what is going on is not good strategy... Devir have to change the way they think the brazilian market and not blame the market they are not selling enough... Players are waiting for Draconomicon for months and they did not say when it is going to be released, the players just give up and buy Iron Kingdoms... Translate and distribute (yes I know you'd be breaking the law but if there are enough people doing it individually on a small scale it would get the same distribution and Devir couldn't track and enforce it, after all a swarm of locust is much more deadly than a rattlesnake) the material yourselves independantly for free (no organized connections) and encourage online ordering from sites like amazon.com that way WotC gets the money they deserve and you cut out Devir and everyone gets what they want until eventually WotC can effect legal change. I for one support WotC even if I don't agree with everything they do, but if they started shaping up like Devir believe me I would be taking my own advice. That could be worst. Devir have the rights for Shadowrun. Realease 1 book... Castle Frankesntein? 1 book... No Vampire book for 1 year. No GURPS for 2 years... They are selling Magic, so they could just do what they do in Portugal stop translation of books and just sell Magic, saying there is no market. There is, but not to the way Devir is managing the brand. Wizards is losing a market in Brazil and Portugal. If they do not do something they will lose some generations of players... Fabiano
Lecen_of_Mitran 06-15-07, 12:47 PM	Friends, a customer wrote a mail to Devir asking why they published D&D books in spanish and italian so fast (sometimes only a month after they´re relased in the USA) while in Brazil, there are NONE. Look what they answered: "Caro consumidor Devir, infelizmente, o mercado Brasileiro e muito fraco para possibilitar tal tradução de livros." (Dear Costumer, unfortunaly, the brazilian market it´s too weak to allow the translation of books.) The customer wrote another mail asking something like "so what, I´d like to see those books available to us!" and Devir answered: "Para não te deixar sem saida, solicito que você aprenda Espanhol ou Italiano." (To not let you without a choice, I request you to learn Spanish or Italian.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- C´mon!!! Can any of you guys believe in such thing?!! If they don´t want to publish those books in here, why they keep the license? Why they don´t let another company do it, instead?
Arhurt 06-15-07, 03:16 PM	C´mon!!! Can any of you guys believe in such thing?!! If they don´t want to publish those books in here, why they keep the license? Why they don´t let another company do it, instead? http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/e/e4/ErnstStavroBlofeld.jpg Devir CEO picture :P
Onslaught[IT] 06-15-07, 03:31 PM	Hey Onslaught. Don't think you are right. Jambo is probably the biggest publisher here outside Devir, and it is publishing more books than all other publishers grouped! I bet it would be a good choice. If they can work with the Iron Kingdoms they can work with anything! This second place is quite a problem. Jambô have more translated material, especially Iron Kingdoms, which was a well-done job (I even made a review of it at RedeRPG ;)...). But it takes too long for them to release this stuff... and they're going to the same place Devir is, or at least it's what I feel... they will have more product lines than they can menage. Besides Jambô, Daemon and Conclave have many releases, but their titles are mostly made Brazilian-made. Daemon don't work with D&D/D20, also. But I'd say that we have a tie between those three in the second place. Sadly our first place, Devir, makes worst job at a slower rate. By the way, my IKCG is in worst conditions than my PHB3.5... even thought I take care of it as usual. It's funny that people who apologise for their 'poor English' almost always have near immaculate grammar and are way better at written English than the majority of native speakers. I guess those guys are not very confident about the way they write the words/phrases. I'm thinking about using "Sorry for bad english" as my signature, as I forgot to use it in every post ;). Can any of you guys believe in such thing? It seems that they are joking at the guy who sent the e-mail, 'cos they could've given a more polite answer. I don't know how the guy wrote the e-mail, but I guess it wasn't in a nice way. By 'not nice' I mean disrespectful. Even if that's the case, what Devir answered iss nonsense at best.
Kursk 06-15-07, 03:35 PM	(To not let you without a choice, I request you to learn Spanish or Italian.) English would be better as you wouldn't wait for translations.
Diogo Salazar 06-15-07, 06:48 PM	Friends, a customer wrote a mail to Devir asking why they published D&D books in spanish and italian so fast (sometimes only a month after they´re relased in the USA) while in Brazil, there are NONE. Look what they answered: "Caro consumidor Devir, infelizmente, o mercado Brasileiro e muito fraco para possibilitar tal tradução de livros." (Dear Costumer, unfortunaly, the brazilian market it´s too weak to allow the translation of books.) The customer wrote another mail asking something like "so what, I´d like to see those books available to us!" and Devir answered: "Para não te deixar sem saida, solicito que você aprenda Espanhol ou Italiano." (To not let you without a choice, I request you to learn Spanish or Italian.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- C´mon!!! Can any of you guys believe in such thing?!! If they don´t want to publish those books in here, why they keep the license? Why they don´t let another company do it, instead? Well, like someone said before, probably the customer who sent the e-mail wasn't being polite, even though, sarcastic answers is bad PR for any company, this is outright display of the indifference they have for their "RPG market" here. Boycott will only work if everybody here stop buying anything published by Devir, even MtG (unfortunately, only in my dreams). But see how this creates a recuring cycle: DEVIR does not publish new translated books because there is no market whatsoever here (or that's what they believe anyway), there is no market or at least the market does not expend because there is no books translated so people can buy or no new books are released so people can keep the hobby. Wizards decided to make D20 "open source" and if it wasn't for this, surely the brazilian market would have gone extint, this made possible for a lot of minor publishers here translate books of other minor or not so minor companies from U.S, so people can survive only with 3 core rulebooks, but this means WoTC is losing or at least not profiting (which is the same to me) around here... By the way, I decided to move this discussion to WW and SJG foruns, any brazilian and portuguese who wishes to expand the discussion send me PM to send the links.
Maelstromo 06-15-07, 07:13 PM	AS a Dungeon Master that uses a WARLOCK as a major NPC, and having a player in my table with the Specialist Wizard (Conjurer) class, I present to you... Another translation funny things: Spellcaster level - Nível de conjurador Caster level - Nível de conjurador Casting time - Tempo de execução Cast a spell - Conjurar uma magia Conjuration school - Escola de Conjuração Calling subschool - Sub-escola de convocação Summoning subschool - Sub-escola de invocação Now tell me, with all this mess, when they finally publish Complete Arcane... how an warlock´s INVOCATIONS will be translated? I myself translated the warlock class as BRUXO and invocations as INVESTIMENTOS (investments), seemed to be the most conceptually close. Not to mention the mess with caster level and spellcaster level... those that red Complete Arcane know what I´m talking about...
Nibelung_ajr 06-15-07, 08:06 PM	A comment from a brazilian thread about this topic. I'll transcript it here because the author don't know English. I already worked in a game store and i'm friend from a lot of shop owners here in my city. Frequent most of them. I live in João Pessoa Paraíba, and here the marlet is very small compared to São Paulo. Here the shops request books from Devir. In less than a month the books simple sold out! In G&B Games they only work with ordered sales, and his book-order are full of requests from local players. A lot of books like Divindades & Semideuses (Deities & Demigods) never are found. Devir do not have stocks. So, they just say that the books sold out. A lot of times i had to talk that we can't sell just because Devir don't have Deities & Demigods, or the DM's Screen. They are legends! Even dice lacking! Our city has 3 famous RPG conventions: RPG e cultura, Avalon and Terra Media. All of then with a good public: About 2000 people... Yes, market we have. It's here. We just need a little work. Another buddy made a very-big-giant-size-post saying that when Star Wars 3 (the movie) was released, happened the Bienal do Livro (Literally brazilian event), and all Star Wars D20 Corebooks (in english) was released. Portuguese version? Was promised to come when the Episode 2 surge on big screen. We are waiting for it yet. [EDIT] Maelstromo, the choosen word to summoning (Invocação) is not wrong. This is the true translation and is a commom word to exactly this situation. And when the PHB was released, Complete Arcane was not. So, this is just a great smile of Mrs. Unlucky. Same thing about Talentos (Feats) and the conflict with Talents from D20 Modern. I'm not saying that Devir don't do mistakes. I posted some BIG mistakes by Devir, but we need to attain just to the Core to criticize the Core. Stay screaming "OMFG! Devir suxxxx! Throw a bomb on they!!!11!11!!!one!" don't help and just make we look like 5-years-old-boys.
Nobunaga Oda 06-15-07, 08:34 PM	Friends, a customer wrote a mail to Devir asking why they published D&D books in spanish and italian so fast (sometimes only a month after they´re relased in the USA) while in Brazil, there are NONE. Look what they answered: "Caro consumidor Devir, infelizmente, o mercado Brasileiro e muito fraco para possibilitar tal tradução de livros." (Dear Costumer, unfortunaly, the brazilian market it´s too weak to allow the translation of books.) The customer wrote another mail asking something like "so what, I´d like to see those books available to us!" and Devir answered: "Para não te deixar sem saida, solicito que você aprenda Espanhol ou Italiano." (To not let you without a choice, I request you to learn Spanish or Italian.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- C´mon!!! Can any of you guys believe in such thing?!! If they don´t want to publish those books in here, why they keep the license? Why they don´t let another company do it, instead? Okay, now this is just stupid. If I was the one receiving the email, I would feel pretty ofended.
celestialkin 06-16-07, 04:53 AM	And that isn't only with D&D. Devir has the license to publish the World of Darkness, GURPS and a lot of others systems. This mean: Monopoly! All brazilian players depend of Devir, and we all doesn't have new books since 08/2006. I found this part a bit funny, because we are pretty much on the same boat here in the US. Wizards pretty much has a monopoly on gaming in the US, like Diamond has a monopoly on everything else us gamers enjoy. Thankfully Wizards still seems to care about us consumers, so we're OK for now. But based on the whole killing off Dungeon magazine and Dragon magazine after all these years of publishing I'm scared that things might start to go sour in the near future.
Maelstromo 06-16-07, 09:10 AM	I found this part a bit funny, because we are pretty much on the same boat here in the US. Wizards pretty much has a monopoly on gaming in the US, like Diamond has a monopoly on everything else us gamers enjoy. Thankfully Wizards still seems to care about us consumers, so we're OK for now. But based on the whole killing off Dungeon magazine and Dragon magazine after all these years of publishing I'm scared that things might start to go sour in the near future. This Wizards "Monopoly" it´s not even close to the Devir "Monopoly", in fact. In the USA there are other relevant games and publishing houses... such as SJG or WW... Here we *practically* have only Devir to care for us. Specially when she holds the translation rights of the three (at least in my time) giants of RPG in Brazil, D&D, WoD and GURPS. Maybe it would be time for MORE NATIONAL STUFF. Besides, the OGL is there for us to use. Here in Brazil we had at least two national D&D settings... most famous is called Tormenta. funny part is that sometimes the Tormenta publishers take something that´s not OGL, warp it and publish their own version.
Nibelung_ajr 06-16-07, 10:37 AM	GURPS and WoD isn't popular in US as they are in Brazil. And i can give the reasons. GURPS was the first official translated sytem that arrived in Brazil. This is because it is the favourite system of Douglas Quinta Reis, Devir owner and foundor. So, it was for a long time the only "big" system in Brazil. A lot of old brazilian players leraned to play with GURPS. WoD was the first "massive" translation. AD&D was licensed by Abril Jovem, so they needed another hevy-wheight to maintain the sells. Even now, the old World of Darkness is the series with more translated books here. More books released = more market. And in 99, Devir caught the AD&D license. And the nightmare begins :)
rossik 06-16-07, 10:50 AM	Organize a boycott. If nobody is buying any products, WoTC will have to put someone better in. Devir does work across multiple countries, but it might be possible. im a little late , but... devir get big bucks selling magic the gathering and magic tornaments. they really dont care about rpg, IMO. :weep:
KnolanCross 06-16-07, 03:01 PM	Just some social/cultural stuff most non-brazillians are not aware of. About prices: Brazil's currency is Real (plural: Reais) - R$ which is about 1:0,50 dollars. The minimiun wage in Brazil is about 420. To buy an english book online we pay about U$$ 50 + about 15 (for the delivery) and finally 60% of the book price in taxes. That comes to about 190 R$ to bring a book from US to Brazil. About english: In order to speak english in Brazil you need to take some extra class course (the price is about 1000 ~ 2000 R$ per year) or study in a private school (3000 ~ 8000 R$ per year) and do something to learn more (mostly reading a lot on internet, games, music, etc). I have gratuated in both private school and Yazigi (english school), but, as you can see for above, is not easy to aford those stuff. Those are the main reason why we need books translated and released here (cheaper). Also, the books translations are terrible, for example ranger favored enemy class feature was translated as +x bonus on attack rolls and damage, instead of damage only. Trip and grapple were translated with words that have the same meaning. Some stuff left untranslated. Not to mention that the Complete Series have not still been released in here.
Holy_Beholder 06-16-07, 03:03 PM	im a little late , but... devir get big bucks selling magic the gathering and magic tornaments. they really dont care about rpg, IMO. :weep: I was including those in the boycott.
Nobunaga Oda 06-16-07, 03:48 PM	This Wizards "Monopoly" it´s not even close to the Devir "Monopoly", in fact. In the USA there are other relevant games and publishing houses... such as SJG or WW... Here we *practically* have only Devir to care for us. Specially when she holds the translation rights of the three (at least in my time) giants of RPG in Brazil, D&D, WoD and GURPS. Maybe it would be time for MORE NATIONAL STUFF. Besides, the OGL is there for us to use. Here in Brazil we had at least two national D&D settings... most famous is called Tormenta. funny part is that sometimes the Tormenta publishers take something that´s not OGL, warp it and publish their own version. There are way more thant just 2 brazilian setting. The fact is: Cassaro did something that Devir should learn: He created a pretty wide fanbase for his setting. The problem is just that: His setting is just for that people. Someone like me who doesn´t like to see Cassaro´s vision of "Anime D&D" gets nothing. Vikings, Mitica and Avalon are still settings. Vikings received great reviews even.
Agis_of_Asticles 06-16-07, 07:56 PM	Another brazilian voice to add in this thread. We have to remember another thing about all of this. Besides Devir is not publishing the core books, she neither publish the novels and the suplement setings, which, for me, is the most important material to really known how the things works in a setting. Me and my group play Forgotten Realms. Just me had previous contact with RPG [AD&D], all the others already start with the D&D 3.5. But my knowledge of the realms is too short. We need this type of material to known about the places, the history, the legends, the informations that MAKE the setting, to do the PCs fell as they are living in it. We have translated only one novel of this setting: the Icewind Dale trylogy. Suplements, we have just one too that refear about a region: Silver Marshes. The other suplements we have are Monsters of Faerûn, Magic in Faerûn and Faiths and Pantheons. Just this! I would die to see novels like Dark Elf Trylogy, Legacy of the Drow or The Avatar Series translated to my language. And The Year of Rogue Dragons, that is essential for groups playing in that period. Please, Wizards! Do something about this! Sorry fellows, bad english, i know.
Onslaught[IT] 06-16-07, 09:01 PM	Same thing about Talentos (Feats) and the conflict with Talents from D20 Modern. Agreed. It *is* a problem, but the source of it isn't bad translation... it's just bad luck. Besides, I think the "right" word for Feats (which would be Feitos) isn't as good as Talentos. I found this part a bit funny, because we are pretty much on the same boat here in the US. Wizards pretty much has a monopoly on gaming in the US, like Diamond has a monopoly on everything else us gamers enjoy. Diamond is the company behind RIFTS? Anyway, Devir is used to be the only source of RPG sometime ago (before D20, that is). Now it's the only source of official material for the most known/used systems (here that means D&D/D20, WoD and GURPS, as someone already said). Thankfully Wizards still seems to care about us consumers, so we're OK for now. That's the way companies think at developed countries. "Customer is always right" is something new (or, at least, less common) here. Especially from smaller companies. Maybe it would be time for MORE NATIONAL STUFF. Besides, the OGL is there for us to use. Here in Brazil we had at least two national D&D settings... most famous is called Tormenta. funny part is that sometimes the Tormenta publishers take something that´s not OGL, warp it and publish their own version. If by "more national stuff" you didn't meant "more Tormenta", it's a good thing. However, most national settings to date are very restrictive (Mitica, Avalon, Vikings...). Yes, they're good, but they're not mainstream (as, for an example, Forgotten and Eberron are). That's changing (C7L...), but you cant compare national material with things like FR or Eberron 'cos they're far greater (world is bigger, books have more pages, settings have more books, etc etc). I was including those in the boycott. People here will not boycott M:tG. Never. As Salazar said, only in our dreams. We have translated only one novel of this setting: the Icewind Dale trylogy. This is other problem. In US they have a huge market of fantasy novels in really rally cheap pocket books. American people like it. Here 'normal' books are printed in higher quality paper that end up increasing the price (normal books cost R$30,00, which is the triple of US's pockets). Besides that, Brazilian people don't like to read. Worst yet, they don't like to read *fantasy*. This is a cultural problem rather another problem at Devir. Suplements, we have just one too that refear about a region: Silver Marshes. The other suplements we have are Monsters of Faerûn, Magic in Faerûn and Faiths and Pantheons. Just this! This is a real problem, IMHO. Devir have 5 settings: Forgotten, Ravenloft (from WW), DragonLance, Warcraft and now Arcana Evolved. Ravenloft and Warcraft have one or two suplements each, and Forgotten have four. They could've released at least more 5 basic or Forgotten's books instead of releasing those settings.
Gabriel_oco 06-16-07, 09:19 PM	Another brazilian here... It´s dificult understand why they keep the license if they don´t want to publish those books in here...
Diogo Salazar 06-16-07, 09:27 PM	Just some social/cultural stuff most non-brazillians are not aware of. About prices: Brazil's currency is Real (plural: Reais) - R$ which is about 1:0,50 dollars. The minimiun wage in Brazil is about 420. To buy an english book online we pay about U$$ 50 + about 15 (for the delivery) and finally 60% of the book price in taxes. That comes to about 190 R$ to bring a book from US to Brazil. Books are not charged with 60% taxes, in fact they are not charged at all. If this happened to you, you were deceived by the "Receita Federal"
Nibelung_ajr 06-16-07, 09:54 PM	I made a petition to Devir talking about what we want. Sorry to american guys, but i wrote in portuguese. If you are brazilian/portuguese and want to give us an "yes, i agree" vote, be welcome. http://www.petitiononline.com/DevirRPG
Agis_of_Asticles 06-16-07, 10:43 PM	;12753274'] This is other problem. In US they have a huge market of fantasy novels in really rally cheap pocket books. American people like it. Here 'normal' books are printed in higher quality paper that end up increasing the price (normal books cost R$30,00, which is the triple of US's pockets). Besides that, Brazilian people don't like to read. Worst yet, they don't like to read *fantasy*. This is a cultural problem rather another problem at Devir. In Brazil, people don't like to read. Agreed. And most brazilians don't like to read fantasy. Agreed too. But the target of Devir is RPGists, and yes, we like to read, and YES, WE LIKE TO READ FANTASY. As I said, thats crutial to know where you are playing. And WE NEED that stuff. ;12753274'] This is a real problem, IMHO. Devir have 5 settings: Forgotten, Ravenloft (from WW), DragonLance, Warcraft and now Arcana Evolved. Ravenloft and Warcraft have one or two suplements each, and Forgotten have four. They could've released at least more 5 basic or Forgotten's books instead of releasing those settings. Totaly agreed! Why release just a few books of many settings, instead of many books of one [FR, to be the most popular and played]?
BronzeWyrmling 06-17-07, 11:05 AM	I made a petition to Devir talking about what we want. Sorry to american guys, but i wrote in portuguese. If you are brazilian/portuguese and want to give us an "yes, i agree" vote, be welcome. http://www.petitiononline.com/DevirRPG Even if you can't understand portuguese, if you vote you will be showing support to our cause. We only request some more published material, focusing on what we, the customers, want, and with a better review.
Lecen_of_Mitran 06-17-07, 12:20 PM	Even if you can't understand portuguese, if you vote you will be showing support to our cause. We only request some more published material, focusing on what we, the customers, want, and with a better review. Such kind of petition will only work if it has the signatures of CONSUMERS. So what if it has signatures from americans, spanish and even chinese if they won´t but those products?
BronzeWyrmling 06-17-07, 12:31 PM	I meant only for support. Okay, so do not sign. Didn't know that.
Valberto 06-17-07, 01:03 PM	I worked at Devir for over 10 years, but I decided to leave and work as editor of the magazine. So Silvio, Big Buddy, can you tell us WHY Devir treat us like ****? Why they never answer our e-mails? Sure, that is one thing I really want to know. The mais problem here is that, yes, Devir own all the big names in RPG (White Wolf, D&D, GURPS) and they are not fulfilling our needs. Thats true, that´s a fact A fact ideed. And why we dont have books yet? Why there are so many "big names" if the comapny cant handle then? Just to put then away to everyone else? You worked there. You got a better picture than all of us. Things like you said so promply, that Devbir owns the magazine can be used against us. They could say to Wizards... Look how they don´t know what they are talking about... just kids wth no candies... Well from my viewing point there are a lot of kids without candies. So many, than the great EIRPG is getting empity every year because devir dont know how administrate it in a way that can call new players. So pay attention on what you are saying. For less than that we lost a lot of things good for the hobbie. And I know that for a fact. While people played games for yeras I worked with game for this time or even more. What is that? Give me one example for what are you saying. Silvio dont take me wrong, but you dont answered a single thing. You and your magazine made two numbers talking about coming up next devir books. Books that never have seen the sun light. And for what I've seen, never will. Be honest man. Dou you really think Devir is doing a great job? There are six pages of guys who think no.
Onslaught[IT] 06-17-07, 01:36 PM	But the target of Devir is RPGists, and yes, we like to read, and YES, WE LIKE TO READ FANTASY. As I said, thats crucial to know where you are playing. And WE NEED that stuff. My point is: or we get novels or we get supplements. If they can release only one book per three months (hypothetically), they've to choose if that book will be a supplement or a novel...
BronzeWyrmling 06-17-07, 02:17 PM	I think they could sell both. I do.
Lecen_of_Mitran 06-17-07, 03:14 PM	So Silvio, Big Buddy, can you tell us WHY Devir treat us like ****? Why they never answer our e-mails? Sure, that is one thing I really want to know. A fact ideed. And why we dont have books yet? Why there are so many "big names" if the comapny cant handle then? Just to put then away to everyone else? You worked there. You got a better picture than all of us. Well from my viewing point there are a lot of kids without candies. So many, than the great EIRPG is getting empity every year because devir dont know how administrate it in a way that can call new players. What is that? Give me one example for what are you saying. Silvio dont take me wrong, but you dont answered a single thing. You and your magazine made two numbers talking about coming up next devir books. Books that never have seen the sun light. And for what I've seen, never will. Be honest man. Dou you really think Devir is doing a great job? There are six pages of guys who think no. He didn´t say that Devir has no fault. What he tried to say is that we should be careful with what we say. If we start saying things without 100% sure if they are fact, it can and probably will be used against us.
Valberto 06-17-07, 04:58 PM	Ok. Did I said anything that is NOT true here?
Agis_of_Asticles 06-17-07, 06:15 PM	;12758822']My point is: or we get novels or we get supplements. If they can release only one book per three months (hypothetically), they've to choose if that book will be a supplement or a novel... I think they could sell both. I do. I agree with BronzeWyrmling. If Devir does like our petition sugest [release a new book each 20 ou 30 days] intercalating the sistems, she could release a suplement in a time, and a novel on another. And I insist in one thing: if she has a good marketing strategy and publicity, she could expand the market beyond the RPGists, taking also the fantasy/ficcion fans. __________________________________ Sorry guys. Bad english, I know.
Onslaught[IT] 06-17-07, 09:06 PM	If Devir does like our petition sugest You know what they say about hope... release a new book each 20 ou 30 days intercalating the sistems, she could release a suplement in a time, and a novel on another. A book each 20~30 days is nonsense. Even if you thing about different systems. And I think a novel would take the same 'slot' as a supplement in this publishing system. And I insist in one thing: if she has a good marketing strategy and publicity, she could expand the market beyond the RPGists, taking also the fantasy/ficcion fans. Is there a thing like "fantasy/fiction fans" here? I've never seen it. Most fantasy-lovers are already RPGists. The only two fantasy books (or series) that people really know and like are Lord of the Rings (because of the movies) and Harry Potter. Being optimistic is good, but you should also be realist. The market here isn't as bad as Devir pictures, but it also isn't that good. And there's no magical solution to improve it (and even if we had a magical solution, there'd be no money to implement it).
Nibelung_ajr 06-17-07, 09:11 PM	Our Signtures are over 300. In less than 2 days. And the majority are from RPGers above 18. This means: People who tecnically can buy books with they own money. When we complete 500 signs, i'll send the list to Devir, and for each Thousand (1000, 2000, 3000...) i send another. Consider that this petition is being done just by calling friends. We do not had a big site giving support to it. Even if Devir don't care about it, Wizards can saw (by this topic) that the Brazilians are wanting books.
Irohma 06-17-07, 10:09 PM	(I'm a Brazilian too, playing d&d since the basic set launched here in Brazil in the beginning of 90's x_x") Well... we cannot blame Devir for everything, here in Brazil RPG has a bad reputation, politicians are mostly against the distribution of RPG books, in a state here (Acre) a law prohibing the selling of RPG book was voted and won (dunno if it lasted long though...)... About D&D Minis, that sure is a pain to pay almost triple the original price in a Booster, Base Set or Icon.... but even ordering by Amazon still makes it expensive (i could say that if Devir sells for R$150,00.. you buy it for about R$110,00 including shiping). Of course buying more than one D&D Mini box makes things a lot cheaper... I can help people with this signature stuff (didn't read the whole topic) x_x but i have one suggestion to all Brazilians: Buy english book, you do not pay higher, they have a 300% better quality (a friend bought the core books from Devir, and i bought them in Canada, both sets of books have 6 years-use, I use them a lot more than him... and his books are almost useless, while mine are in a good shape), and you do not need to face some damn weird translations they make X___X" (in AD&D they called Waterdeep as "Profund´agua", i laughed for a week after reading that, and for "Espadão" instead of "montante" for the translation of greatsword)...
Kimble500 06-17-07, 11:01 PM	Irohma, Next time, read it first. We know that right now, is better for people that have the money and understand english, to buy the books. But how many of us have these two things. Unless we want to keep the players as some kind of rich and special minority, this situation has to change. We can´t keep our hobby like that if we want it to survive here. If only people that can read english and buy the books with Devir´s (ridiculous) prices, our numbers will only decrease. And I really would like to don´t have to say to every newbie I know that his/her only options are to buy some overpriced book OR learn english OR just buy some second-rate book (no, I´m not talking about Iron Kingdoms, but even in this situation you still need Wizards books).
Lecen_of_Mitran 06-18-07, 12:34 AM	(I'm a Brazilian too, playing d&d since the basic set launched here in Brazil in the beginning of 90's x_x") Well... we cannot blame Devir for everything, here in Brazil RPG has a bad reputation, politicians are mostly against the distribution of RPG books, in a state here (Acre) a law prohibing the selling of RPG book was voted and won (dunno if it lasted long though...)... About D&D Minis, that sure is a pain to pay almost triple the original price in a Booster, Base Set or Icon.... but even ordering by Amazon still makes it expensive (i could say that if Devir sells for R$150,00.. you buy it for about R$110,00 including shiping). Of course buying more than one D&D Mini box makes things a lot cheaper... I can help people with this signature stuff (didn't read the whole topic) x_x but i have one suggestion to all Brazilians: Buy english book, you do not pay higher, they have a 300% better quality (a friend bought the core books from Devir, and i bought them in Canada, both sets of books have 6 years-use, I use them a lot more than him... and his books are almost useless, while mine are in a good shape), and you do not need to face some damn weird translations they make X___X" (in AD&D they called Waterdeep as "Profund´agua", i laughed for a week after reading that, and for "Espadão" instead of "montante" for the translation of greatsword)... Well, you should have read the topic. The problem is not about importing books. The problem is: why should we import books when there was supposed to be an official company (Guess who?! Devir!) translating and publishing them here in Brazil?
Agis_of_Asticles 06-18-07, 02:16 AM	;12762892'] A book each 20~30 days is nonsense. Even if you thing about different systems. And I think a novel would take the same 'slot' as a supplement in this publishing system. Yaeh, I know. I just use the period example of the petition. I think if Devir released a book each 2 months, that would be great. ;12762892'] Is there a thing like "fantasy/fiction fans" here? I've never seen it. Most fantasy-lovers are already RPGists. The only two fantasy books (or series) that people really know and like are Lord of the Rings (because of the movies) and Harry Potter. Being optimistic is good, but you should also be realist. The market here isn't as bad as Devir pictures, but it also isn't that good. And there's no magical solution to improve it (and even if we had a magical solution, there'd be no money to implement it). The market here isn't that good because there is no good publicity around it. No publicity at all. Just on the books that you mentioned. But I really think if Devir had a good marketing strategy, she could sell the novels not just to RPGers, but to other people who like fantasy too. I know that here in Brazil doesn't exist fantasy/fiction fananics, but we have people who apretiate de genre.
Diogo Salazar 06-18-07, 05:48 PM	and you do not need to face some damn weird translations they make X___X" (in AD&D they called Waterdeep as "Profund´agua", i laughed for a week after reading that, and for "Espadão" instead of "montante" for the translation of greatsword)... These problems of translations you mentioned are not weird, they are litteral in every sense. The problem is "espadão" as translation for greatsword sure looks ridiculous in portuguese, without to mention the sexual implications people could make :P, about "Profundágua" as translation for Waterdeep, well, it is the actual name of the place in portuguese , they could even call it "Água Profunda" instead of making it a single name and I see nothing wrong in translating places' names when possible if they are correct. The problem are things like: "trip" and grapple" having the same meaning in portuguese with two different words and you get confused because of the meanings being the same, or "martelo-gancho com gnomo" wich translating back to english would be "hooked-hammer with a gnome"... me and my friends are still wondering what we should do with the free gnome and why they are so cheap ;) or many other translations that make ruling complicated.
Khalgalanos 06-19-07, 12:53 PM	Another Brazilian here. I´ve been playing D&D and other RPGs since the "boom" of the hobby in the mid nighnties and I still look back at does days with a good feeling of nostalgia. It is something that I think that old gamers also feel and that I fear the new ones won´t. We are beeing let down by the a company that should have our best interests in mind, but alas, it is not so.... One only hopes Devir comes to its senses or/and WotC comes to our aid... I throw in my lot with you guys on this one
Onslaught[IT] 06-20-07, 08:12 PM	about "Profundágua" as translation for Waterdeep, well, it is the actual name of the place in portuguese , they could even call it "Água Profunda" instead of making it a single name and I see nothing wrong in translating places' names when possible if they are correct. The correct translation is "Águas Profundas" (this is the one use by Devir), not "Profundágua". ... Well... Douglas D3, from Devir, is answering some questions on RedeRPG's yahoo groups e-mail list. Here's a quote: O Arcana Evoluída se deve ao convidado internacional, o Monte Cook. (...) Algumas vezes, nós já lançamos livros que venderam mais lentamente (ou nem foram feitos para vender muito), como Castelo Falkenstein, em função do convidado. So... They're releasing a book that's big and expensive because it's writer will be here at release date (IERPG, our litte GenCon), which should be some kind of publicity. Well... I hope they're right. ... I feel compelled to apologize for this post's english... awful phase construction... too much time studying eletromagnetism today.
Holy_Beholder 06-21-07, 12:17 AM	;12762892'] Is there a thing like "fantasy/fiction fans" here? I've never seen it. Most fantasy-lovers are already RPGists. The only two fantasy books (or series) that people really know and like are Lord of the Rings (because of the movies) and Harry Potter. Well, Eragon is beginning to pick up throughout the world, it's already extremely popular in America, and it could potientially hit brazil in a few years.
Khalgalanos 06-21-07, 01:36 PM	There already exists the two books in portuguies of the Eragon series, or the first one from the Eragon series and another from the same author, I´m not sure. There was a lot of propganda in the bookstores when they were released, but I haven´t known anybody who has read them, gamer or otherwise. There exists the Dragonlance chronicles series and the Forgotten Realms Icewinddale series in portuguies. There translation are good, taking in mind some of the names are very hard to translate without it sounding ridiculos or worse, but the only ones who I know read these novels are gamers who wanted to imerse themselves a bit more in the worlds they play in. It´s something, but there is the problem that the only translated novels avalible are kind of outdated compared to the material beeing used for third edition D&D and it is very possible that these are the only novels of this kind that are going to be translated. There are some fiction/fans here, to my knowledge, but they mostly have to resort to imported editions, myself included.
ArabianEyes 06-21-07, 04:53 PM	Devir is KILLING the RPG in Brazil. So nevermind, Devir, right?
Nevrak 06-23-07, 02:04 AM	I'm a brazillian too. First of all, i totally agree with you guys. A moviment like this is crucial for a beginning of a tiny little change they might start in their publications here. Buuut, when you say ''take their license off'', ''they are incompetent'', ''they must DIIIEEE'', ''let's burn Devir's building to the ground'':D , i realize one thing: it's not that simple. I think WoTC cannot just simply take their licence to publish D&D in braSil just because we want to, there must be some kind of contract or something that involves more things than we can imagine. An exemple: if WoTC take the license from Devir in a blink as we want, making a break of contract, probably they'll lost their market in Spain (and other latin-american countries), witch isn't the more intelligent way to handle a problem in a SINGLE country. So, let's think about that too.
The Grig Fiddler 06-23-07, 03:30 AM	I would just like to say I support you guys 100%. Wish there was more we could do up here.
Lecen_of_Mitran 06-23-07, 11:08 AM	Well, so far we didn´t get an answer from Wizards and the one we got from Devir was pretty... awful. I´m trully disapointed... :(
duncansalazar 06-24-07, 10:06 AM	Someone started complaining about that... I am also a Brazilian and one of the D&D translator for Devir. My area is Forgotten Realms... Maybe we should see and figure out the reasons for that... What could it be really.... Some people might say it is a matter of disrespect to the brazilian players. Some might say it is because of lack of money. I really don't know... One thing I know though: Brazilian gamers want book and want them NOW!!! And don't you get me started about pricing of imported books...:mad:
duncansalazar 06-24-07, 10:10 AM	;12799189']The correct translation is "Águas Profundas" (this is the one use by Devir), not "Profundágua". ... Well... Douglas D3, from Devir, is answering some questions on RedeRPG's yahoo groups e-mail list. Here's a quote: So... They're releasing a book that's big and expensive because it's writer will be here at release date (IERPG, our litte GenCon), which should be some kind of publicity. Well... I hope they're right. ... I feel compelled to apologize for this post's english... awful phase construction... too much time studying eletromagnetism today. Hi there, just athough... The basic premisse of book translating is to gather NEW fans for Forgotten Realms so the translation should reflect on that. The "veteran" gamers should disconsoder the books is Portuguese because (like me!) they wouyld prefer buying the books in the original language - even for a romantic view of the scenery. That is the ONLY reason the names for the regions and some characters were translated in the first place. The ONLY one.
duncansalazar 06-24-07, 10:12 AM	These problems of translations you mentioned are not weird, they are litteral in every sense. The problem is "espadão" as translation for greatsword sure looks ridiculous in portuguese, without to mention the sexual implications people could make :P, about "Profundágua" as translation for Waterdeep, well, it is the actual name of the place in portuguese , they could even call it "Água Profunda" instead of making it a single name and I see nothing wrong in translating places' names when possible if they are correct. The problem are things like: "trip" and grapple" having the same meaning in portuguese with two different words and you get confused because of the meanings being the same, or "martelo-gancho com gnomo" wich translating back to english would be "hooked-hammer with a gnome"... me and my friends are still wondering what we should do with the free gnome and why they are so cheap ;) or many other translations that make ruling complicated. I just think people should upgrade their complaints... ESPADAO was a 2001 translation... If you get the new editions of those books, they are all correct now... Like I said before (some 2000 msgs early), maybe it is a matter of paying more attention to revision, maybe you should get a person who loves the game better... But let's focus on the present shall we?:rolleyes:
duncansalazar 06-24-07, 10:19 AM	Friends, a customer wrote a mail to Devir asking why they published D&D books in spanish and italian so fast (sometimes only a month after they´re relased in the USA) while in Brazil, there are NONE. Look what they answered: "Caro consumidor Devir, infelizmente, o mercado Brasileiro e muito fraco para possibilitar tal tradução de livros." (Dear Costumer, unfortunaly, the brazilian market it´s too weak to allow the translation of books.) The customer wrote another mail asking something like "so what, I´d like to see those books available to us!" and Devir answered: "Para não te deixar sem saida, solicito que você aprenda Espanhol ou Italiano." (To not let you without a choice, I request you to learn Spanish or Italian.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- C´mon!!! Can any of you guys believe in such thing?!! If they don´t want to publish those books in here, why they keep the license? Why they don´t let another company do it, instead? I believe if the bnrazilian marker is SO weak to have thouse books published is because some people say about the boycout Devir protagonized in the mid 90's against RPG because Magic was selling OH so well at that time. The RPG games got so fed up they decided to start buying imported products. Now if they are trying to get those gamers back by creating "special" sessions of RPG table games, they are not being successful . Dude sometimes it is too little to late for those "tactics". We have an entire generation of RPG people who grew up hearing ONLY bad thing about Devir like: "They don't respect gamers", " we never have space to game in the store", "they pay more attention to Magic " and so on and so for... Maybe it is time for Devir to be massive and get those players back pronto!
duncansalazar 06-24-07, 10:33 AM	And let't me remind you guys we have the petition for Devir in thise address: :P Devir, Publish books in Portuguese for the love of God!!! (http://www.petitiononline.com/DevirRPG/petition.html)
duncansalazar 06-24-07, 10:35 AM	There already exists the two books in portuguies of the Eragon series, or the first one from the Eragon series and another from the same author, I´m not sure. There was a lot of propganda in the bookstores when they were released, but I haven´t known anybody who has read them, gamer or otherwise. There exists the Dragonlance chronicles series and the Forgotten Realms Icewinddale series in portuguies. There translation are good, taking in mind some of the names are very hard to translate without it sounding ridiculos or worse, but the only ones who I know read these novels are gamers who wanted to imerse themselves a bit more in the worlds they play in. It´s something, but there is the problem that the only translated novels avalible are kind of outdated compared to the material beeing used for third edition D&D and it is very possible that these are the only novels of this kind that are going to be translated. There are some fiction/fans here, to my knowledge, but they mostly have to resort to imported editions, myself included. Maing those words mine... I am also a disgraced fiction fan here. The money for imported books is running low this "century".
Lecen_of_Mitran 06-24-07, 11:16 AM	I am also a Brazilian and one of the D&D translator for Devir. My area is Forgotten Realms... What? So, you are Devir´s translator... Was it you the one who made "Trip" as... "imobilização" (????!!!!!), "Bull Rush" as... "encontrão", "sunder" as... "separar" (what?!!), the Ranger with +1 to attack against his favored enemies and many other mistakes? Why not Trip as "derrubar", sunder as "quebrar", and similar?? Or, if you are indeed only translating Forgotten Reamls books... who´s the guy that made the core books´s translation? Baecause I´m going to kick his %&$@#... And please, can you tell me why in the Dungeon Masters Handbook they didn´t put "mace of smiting" and "mace of terror"? There is no sign of them, but only in the box with the weapon´s prices!
Dracomortis 06-24-07, 12:01 PM	Although I'm a native-born American, I fully sympathize with all of you Brazilian gamers - I can only imagine how upset I would be if I was forced to read all of my D&D books in a foreign language, even if it was one I knew fluently. This kind of mismanagement is an insult to not only the Brazilian RPG market, but the international gaming community as a whole. Quite honestly, the fact that nobody from Wizards has yet to make any comment on this topic is disturbing. EDIT: I found the other thread, and Mike Lescault has said that he is bringing this problem up to the right people. Many thanks to Mike for taking the first steps towards correcting this problem.
Gladius_Dei 06-27-07, 07:13 PM	I realize I may be late so as to express my contempt for the way that DEVIR treats we brazilians when it comes to RPG (D&D being the one that interests me the most), considering that there has been no new reply since this Sunday, but regardless... Yes, hello, I too am a brazilian that has come to add his voice to that of his brethren, that of his "house", "clan" and nationality in their cry for a fairer treatment. And I'm fortunately (or rather, unfortunately) surprised to see that our Portuguese brothers too suffer in the hands of said DEVIR. If I may take but a brief moment of your time (or probably not, I do tend to write a lot), I'd wish to express a small ammount of my opinion and knowlodge on the matters presented here, so as to mayhaps better ilustrate to our North-american friends why some have answered as they did. Misinformation can be quite deadly, if you do not mind me saying... Firstly, it has been suggested that D&D players might wish to learn English, so that we would not incur on the poorly translated books we have here. I am saddened when I say, however, that such task is not possible as of now: although many have learned English in our country, it's neither considered an obligatory learning, nor does it affect a large scale of the populace, nor is it cheap. In a country that is trying to release itself from the clutches of the third world, learning English is just for a few. Therefore, as I must reiterate the points of my brazilian brethren, it's important that someone translates the books, so that the majority that does not know English may learn about the wonderful worlds of the imagination, roleplaying, and just plain fun with friends in D&D. That someone, as you know, is DEVIR. Which hasn't been doing it's job. Secondly, I'd like to treat the aptly given suggestion of translating the books ourselves. To the good member(s) that said so, many of us would happily oblige ourselves in such suggestion (as you can see how most of us can express ourselves properly in English, so translating wouldn't be hard as well), however it is unfortunate for me to say that such action would be against the law in our country (and I believe, in various other countries as well). Furthermore, in order to avoid "piracy" (as in, sharing freely such information that should be paid for), each and every group would need to translate themselves each book, and such is a massive work that is also counter-productive, and will eventually lead to piracy, most unfortunately. As of now, the owner of the rights to translate and publish D&D books hasn't been working aptly at it. That owner, as you know, is DEVIR. Thirdly, there has been said, by the "defender" of this case that the market in Brazil is not strong enough to reflect what is claimed here. They speak of lack of numbers of gamers, however we are a nation of 188 million people, of which nearly 48 million have the means to acquire a good portion of the books (we are 90 million if you add folks that could perhaps buy a book or two, of pooling with a group and et coetera), of which about 31 million are within the range of age that most gamers reside. They speak of lack of interest, however it is rare that there is any advertisement on RPG aside from a few meager (two, at most) magazines about it. They speak of society's reject of RPG, like D&D used to be persecuted in the USA, however they fail to advertise that the problems we had here in Brazil (all of them were crimes that the media said had to do with RPGs) were all solved and that RPG had nothing to do with them. As you have guessed, the called "defender" is DEVIR. In all this matter, many things have been poorly explained by DEVIR over the years. When people would wish to complain to the company, it would not answer back (e-mails, phone calls, letters... you name it). OR, if they would answer, they would answer in a vastly vague way, so as to give some hope to their customers (unfounded hope, might we add). Not to say, as shown here, sometimes suggesting that we should learn English so as to not miss the recent books - whilst detaining the books' rights to translation themselves. Such has been their form of treatment to customers for... actually, I've somewhat lost tract of the exact years. Yes, years. In addition, they would say that the market is simply not buying books. However, as my brethren have aptly pointed out, there are simply no books that they translate and release... or at least, books that would be for the interest of most gaming groups (as you are aware, they have promised the Draconomicon for 2005, a book many groups would happily acquire; and now, they are presenting to us Arcana Evolved, a book from the previous edition, after years of it's release). Simply put, we can not boicott them for there is simply no items to. Adding to that, their company, surprisingly perhaps, does well in a great number of countries where it has opposition. Few unreleased books, few delays, less translation problems apparently... and countries that have, shall we say, a vastly inferior number of possible gamers and market. I could speak now of cultural differences, that the medieval flavor does attract to brazilians since such topic is exotic to us, but truly I wish not to bother you with more text. And thus, that is the world of the brazilian gamer. Now, lords and ladies present, I realize that I am but a simple voice. It is not impossible that I may have erred somewhere in my text (for I am human, after all). And it is highly possible that this cry will fade in the vastness, along with others. But if we can give ourselves a moment... a single moment that something could be done... that we drew a sweat out of this ill company... that we poked them to action, perhaps... Then if we did so, I rest more peacefully, my mission accomplished for the time being. And that is it. Thanks for reading my thoughts. P.S.: EDIT: I found the other thread, and Mike Lescault has said that he is bringing this problem up to the right people. Many thanks to Mike for taking the first steps towards correcting this problem. Good sir, if I may trouble you briefly, would you please point to the appropriated thread where such is in? If I may ask of you, of course.
Tyaris 06-27-07, 11:12 PM	Dang...and I thought it was tough to find good DnD stuff in Louisiana! You guys have my support. If you start a petition, just tell me where to sign, man. :)
Dracomortis 06-28-07, 12:14 PM	Good sir, if I may trouble you briefly, would you please point to the appropriated thread where such is in? If I may ask of you, of course. Of course. You can find the thread here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=864353). Mike's response is post #4 (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=12700344&postcount=4).
Gladius_Dei 06-28-07, 02:47 PM	Dracomortis, I thank you very much for the link. My only fear is that, due to the time elapsed (two weeks), the answer has not been given and due to contracts it might be possible it won't be given in an open forum. Regardless, I thank you for that, and to all that have shown their support, as... Tyaris, The brazilian of certain RPG forums have united to try a petition. The author is Nibelung_ajr, and the link is in his signature (and as well, in one of the pages in this very own thread). Someone has said, however, that for the petition to demonstrate the wish of the Brazilian and Portuguese market, that it's not advised that our supportive international friends sign this petition. Even so, if such petition of international support was to be created, I'd certainly try to post it here, seeing how good folks you all are. :) Regardless, this is the petition's link, in case someone missed it, and is a brazilian/portuguese/used to live in one of those countries and wishes to add their voices to it. http://boards1.wizards.com/leaving.php?destination=http://www.petitiononline.com/DevirRPG
Onslaught[IT] 06-29-07, 08:28 PM	The basic premisse of book translating is to gather NEW fans for Forgotten Realms so the translation should reflect on that. I know, I know... even if I'm not veteran to the setting or the game (my first D&D book was PHB 3.0... I've never read anything about Forgotten before 3rd Ed, besides my hours spent playing Baldur's Gate II...) I understand that. I just think people should upgrade their complaints... ESPADAO was a 2001 translation... If you get the new editions of those books, they are all correct now... Douglas D3, from Devir, said that "espadão" was only in the subtitle of the picture, but not in the text... I can't argue with that since I have a 2nd printing PHB 3.0. What? So, you are Devir´s translator... Hey, hey... calm down... the guy is just responsible for Forgotten Realms' translations... and, as far as I know, he wasn't the one who translated FRCS.
B4_life 06-29-07, 08:41 PM	I fully support you guys in brazil. we don't have a problem with translating the books here in Quebec (IIRC most if not all of the books have been tranlated) but they cost twice as much. for instance, each "complete xyz" is 29.99+tazes in english, and 54.99 in french (plus taxes, and in canadian dollars). total ripoff.
Lecen_of_Mitran 06-29-07, 11:22 PM	Mike Lescault still haven´t give us any news about how was his talking with the "right people". I have a bad feeling that they are waiting to see us getting tired and then wait to see this thread die naturally ... :(
Dracomortis 06-30-07, 10:36 AM	Dracomortis, I thank you very much for the link. My only fear is that, due to the time elapsed (two weeks), the answer has not been given and due to contracts it might be possible it won't be given in an open forum. Regardless, I thank you for that, and to all that have shown their support, as... No problem. Mike seems to have stopped posting on a few other threads as well, so I believe he may just be busy, rather than ignoring this thread. Regardless, I wish you all luck in your endeavors.
SSongBR 07-14-07, 10:47 PM	Also registered just to post... From all that's been told here, Devir should be doing a much better job. Not only with D&D and D20 products but specially with DDMiniatures. A big market is being mismanaged. WotC, please listen our complaints and take action to correct this situation.
TabrisTheArtificer 07-16-07, 08:30 AM	And there's the prices question, how can it be cheaper to but from amazon.com and other websites than to buy the book that was printed in you country, even considering international shipping fees and etc? A Devir representative has recently said that the Draconomicon will be avaible for R$100 but if i buy it from amazon, all fees included, i'll be paying about R$60 or R$70 for the same book, with better biding, larger images and without silly translating mistakes.
duncansalazar 07-16-07, 08:51 AM	By a miracle, they managed to publish the 3.5 core books, but that's it. I think they didn't even translated the "II" books (Player's II, DMG II...) The II books are already translated, dunno whern they're coming out though. Let us wait and see...
duncansalazar 07-16-07, 08:55 AM	Our Signtures are over 300. In less than 2 days. And the majority are from RPGers above 18. This means: People who tecnically can buy books with they own money. When we complete 500 signs, i'll send the list to Devir, and for each Thousand (1000, 2000, 3000...) i send another. Consider that this petition is being done just by calling friends. We do not had a big site giving support to it. Even if Devir don't care about it, Wizards can saw (by this topic) that the Brazilians are wanting books. but even when I personally send proof their a re doing crappy job in some areas, WotC still believe they are DA BOMB. I guess it some kind of charming spell. Does anyone has true sight or something so WotC SEES the hell broken loose? [activating sarcastic mode]
duncansalazar 07-16-07, 09:07 AM	What? So, you are Devir´s translator... Was it you the one who made "Trip" as... "imobilização" (????!!!!!), "Bull Rush" as... "encontrão", "sunder" as... "separar" (what?!!), the Ranger with +1 to attack against his favored enemies and many other mistakes? Why not Trip as "derrubar", sunder as "quebrar", and similar?? Well, I really dunno why, but one thing I know: each person has its version of a better translation. I guess that one was their best ones. We have different's view of the same life, we've experienced different situations. Most people don't agree with every single tranlations they encounter. Or, if you are indeed only translating Forgotten Reamls books... who´s the guy that made the core books´s translation? Baecause I´m going to kick his %&$@#... Hope you don't do that, because THEY (like, more than ONE) are doing an excellent job against all odds Devir sends us every glorious morning... And please, can you tell me why in the Dungeon Masters Handbook they didn´t put "mace of smiting" and "mace of terror"? There is no sign of them, but only in the box with the weapon´s prices! I guess it is one of the mysteries of life. It goes in the same drawer as the other ones... But thinking about every mismatch translation is not helping at all. First they should PUBLISH books, THEN we could complaint about the vocabulary. I think, nay, I KNOW that should be our primary topic for this thread.
duncansalazar 07-16-07, 09:13 AM	Just to be know, below a list of all d&d 3.0 and 3.5 books published by devir since the beginning; 3.0 Players Handbook Monsters Manual Dungeon Masters Guide Sword and fists Tome and Blood Defenders of the faith Masters of the wild Song and Silence Forgotten Realms Campaing Setting Forgotten Realms Magic of Faerun Forgotten Realms Silver Marchs Oriental Adventures Deities and Demigods Manual of the Planes Epic Level Handbook And he Icewind Dale Trilogy For 3.5 Players Handbook Monsters Manual Dungeon Masters Guide Complete Warrior Complete Divine Hey *pouding* where are the books I MADE?!? Seriously now, I see your point. When you list them, it ...kinda looks very small for a "very respectable and important editor"right?
duncansalazar 07-16-07, 09:18 AM	Also registered just to post... From all that's been told here, Devir should be doing a much better job. Not only with D&D and D20 products but specially with DDMiniatures. A big market is being mismanaged. WotC, please listen our complaints and take action to correct this situation. Yeah,... you know... about D&D minis. It is a WHOLE different contract and stuff. It is kinda like a favor selling them in Brazil, ok? It is just another product. They pay the same attention for Star Wars minis so let's not think about epic level miracles here, shall we? Minis are part of a WHOLE different thread, this subject goes along with RPG spounsorship (which they don't give), a good place to have RPG sessions (which they don't want to give), more attention and marketing for RPG (which they ... oh you got the point!)
duncansalazar 07-23-07, 02:07 PM	And there's the prices question, how can it be cheaper to but from amazon.com and other websites than to buy the book that was printed in you country, even considering international shipping fees and etc? A Devir representative has recently said that the Draconomicon will be avaible for R$100 but if i buy it from amazon, all fees included, i'll be paying about R$60 or R$70 for the same book, with better biding, larger images and without silly translating mistakes. That takes me back to the early 90's when Devir used to be in a fancy and cozy yellow 2-story manor next to Aclimação Park. The imported books used to be cheaper then. BUT nobody bought the books in English, not because nobody knew English, but because they used to treat us SO WELL that nobody thought about it. We were important to them, we mattered. We mattered SO MUCH at the time, that I was one of many friends WHO HELPED them move to the other building. And WE HELPED them literally build the damn thing: even painting the walls and installing:( some electrical wiring... As you can see, maybe they have forgotten that WE are there for them since the beginning. We've known Devir since it was a lousy comic bookstore in Pamplona St. And now... It is sad really...
Eater_Of_Souls 07-23-07, 02:23 PM	Well most likely they have stopped translating books because no one is buying them in Portugese, ever thought of that ? Just play it in english like the rest of us have to and hope they learn something when sales drop.
Ikeren 07-23-07, 02:57 PM	Well most likely they have stopped translating books because no one is buying them in Portugese, ever thought of that ? The books being translated and published in Portugese are being purchased (at least from the sound of it). People want more so they can buy more = more purchases. Has a WizO posted in this thread yet? I mean, I doubt they missed it...
TabrisTheArtificer 07-24-07, 04:17 PM	What i find must interesting is how Devir is so different in Spain where they do have a competition in the RPG market altought spanish population is far smaller than brazil.
ArabianEyes 08-03-07, 01:47 PM	Hey *pouding* where are the books I MADE?!? Seriously now, I see your point. When you list them, it ...kinda looks very small for a "very respectable and important editor"right? Well, I think it's a great list, don't you? look... -Dark Elf Trilogy -Legacy of the drow -Paths of Darkness -War of the Spider Queen -The Hunter's Blade Trilogy -The Elminster's Series and a lot of other novels of Faerûn -Book Exalted Deeds -Complete Arcane -D&D Arms Equipment Guide -Monster Manual II -Monster Manual III -Draconomicon -Expanded Pisionics Handbook -Planar Handbook -Races of Destiny -Races of Stone -Races of the Dragon -Races of the Wild -Savage Species -Spell Compendium -Weapons of Legacy -Champions of Ruin -Champions of Valor -City of Splendor:Waterdeep -Lost Empires of Faerûn -Player's Guide to Faerûn -Races of Faerûn -Powers of Faerûn -Serpent Kingdons -Shining South -Sons of Gruumsh -Unaproachable East -Underdark -Shadowdale -Mysteries of th Moonsea -Dragons of Faerûn -Eberron Campaign Seting -Explore's handbook -Five Nations -Magic of Eberron -Races of Eberron -Player's Guide to Eberron -Shadows Last War -Age of Mortals Dragonlance Campaign Setting Companion -Dragonlance Dungeon's Master Screen -Holy Orders of the Stars -War of The Lance Complement -30 or more novels of Dragonlance and a lot of others... WHERE IS THE TRANSLATIONS MY DEAR SALAZAR?:confused: Especially Forgotten, please! I love this Campaign Setting! That's my favourite! :(
duncansalazar 08-08-07, 07:58 PM	Well, I think it's a great list, don't you? look... -Dark Elf Trilogy -Legacy of the drow -Paths of Darkness -War of the Spider Queen -The Hunter's Blade Trilogy -The Elminster's Series and a lot of other novels of Faerûn -Book Exalted Deeds -Complete Arcane -D&D Arms Equipment Guide -Monster Manual II -Monster Manual III -Draconomicon -Expanded Pisionics Handbook -Planar Handbook -Races of Destiny -Races of Stone -Races of the Dragon -Races of the Wild -Savage Species -Spell Compendium -Weapons of Legacy -Champions of Ruin -Champions of Valor -City of Splendor:Waterdeep -Lost Empires of Faerûn -Player's Guide to Faerûn -Races of Faerûn -Powers of Faerûn -Serpent Kingdons -Shining South -Sons of Gruumsh -Unaproachable East -Underdark -Shadowdale -Mysteries of th Moonsea -Dragons of Faerûn -Eberron Campaign Seting -Explore's handbook -Five Nations -Magic of Eberron -Races of Eberron -Player's Guide to Eberron -Shadows Last War -Age of Mortals Dragonlance Campaign Setting Companion -Dragonlance Dungeon's Master Screen -Holy Orders of the Stars -War of The Lance Complement -30 or more novels of Dragonlance and a lot of others... WHERE IS THE TRANSLATIONS MY DEAR SALAZAR?:confused: Especially Forgotten, please! I love this Campaign Setting! That's my favourite! :( Hehehe, FR books contract do not count for pocket books and novels, only accessories and rpg books. It is a whole new contract. The Trilogy of the Shard, as it became known, was a separate agreement. And the "small list" i said was for Devir not WotC.
Diogo Salazar 08-13-07, 09:44 PM	And here I was thinking this thread had gone to oblivion, I've been so busy with college this last 4 weeks, I had forgotten this existed... Duncan, I'm not from Sampa, but yes, I also remember Devir from the early, mid 90's a whole lot diferent from now, uhm? I guess that this is because the only thing they care about these days is MtG, wich, by the sounds of people I know who still play, they don't like the way Devir is treating them either :confused: Who said about importing the books and learn english, well, I'll give you the same example was given before. Imagine we're talking about cars, instead of books. Why should we import cars that supposedly we're being produced in our own country that should be the same, but alas, they are more expensive and worst quality, and they have the wheel on the other side?
Armsman 08-13-07, 11:54 PM	I just want to apologize in advance for the bad joke I'm about to make. "But Mom, I don't want to read the Hero Builder's Guidebook." "You'll read it and you'll like it. There are gamers in Brazil that don't have any RPG books. Just remember how lucky you are to have that book."
Diogo Salazar 08-16-07, 08:14 AM	:P Heheheheeh, well, people can always be remembered of how lucky they are because of the small (and big) luxuries they have...
Tpiardi 08-22-07, 08:01 PM	Great... It seens that Devir will be the responsible by the 4th edition. Today seens to be one more dark day in the history of brazilian RPG... May the gods take pity on it.
ArabianEyes 08-27-07, 03:42 PM	Hehehe, FR books contract do not count for pocket books and novels, only accessories and rpg books. It is a whole new contract. The Trilogy of the Shard, as it became known, was a separate agreement. And the "small list" i said was for Devir not WotC. I know, I know. It's a small list for Devir, but what I want to know is "when" the brazilians D&D players will see that books in portuguese? :(
willstefani 08-29-07, 06:19 PM	Who in Brazil would buy the 4ed. license? You have to stop being silly. WotC just sell the license. They have any control or responsability about the releases in Brazil or any other country. We need to pressure Devir to hear us, and this is happening — they start to hear us — let's do our job. Other subject — I wonder that Devir need to release the books with the same quality — if I was WotC, I'll demand this by commercial contract. So please, stop asking for books with poor quality. Like I read on a brazilian forum about this: don't expect to buy a mercedez-benz without the 'star'. Just play it in english like the rest of us have to and hope they learn something when sales drop. Yeah, everyone! Gonna stop to buy books from Devir and start to buy books from Amazon... Paying in dollar with international credit cards... No comments. Regards, Will
willstefani 08-29-07, 06:30 PM	Since July, 13th, we can access this forum and speak directly with the brazilian D&D main editor here: http://www.rederpg.com.br/portal/modules/ipboard/index.php?showtopic=7511
ainatan 01-12-08, 05:30 PM	I can't believe I only saw this thread today!! Shame on me! I think everything that could be said about the issue has been said, I didn't have time to read all the 8 pages thread though. I'll just add two things: 1- I'm player from TSR era, and I can say WotC has done a fantastic job with the D&D brand. Some say the brand is actually better than the game itself. Anyway, I've mentioned that just to say that in Brazil, DEVIR is actually doing the contrary, or at least is doing nothing to strengthen the D&D game. There was a time we had D&D advertisements in normal magazines, can you BELIEVE THAT? IN Brazil you shouldn't. D&D here is still an underground not-developed hobby, synonim of kids, nerds, videogames or dumb people's RPG. It's a gigantic loss of potential. There is no investiment in the RPG market here. I think there is a lot of potential market in Brazil. It's a huge country. Only for that it's already worthy trying. 2- Buying books at our local gaming stores is more expensive than simply buying at amazon. A book, printed in Brazil, is more expensive than the same book (with higher quality) that comes from another hemisphere. Thank you amazon.com, I'm still playing D&D in Brazil because of you! Ok I'm being a little dramatic here, but you get the idea ;)
ChaoticGood 01-13-08, 12:14 AM	Who in Brazil would buy the 4ed. license? You have to stop being silly. WotC just sell the license. They have any control or responsability about the releases in Brazil or any other country. We need to pressure Devir to hear us, and this is happening — they start to hear us — let's do our job. It seems that you are saying that WotC just sells the license and Devir has no responsibility to provide the same kind of quality of product when publishing in WotC's name. That is not correct. When a company has the contract to do work for another company, they are expected to do the job to the standards required by the company that hired them. If this doesn't happen, WotC has every right to end their contract and find another company who will do the job. So complaining to WotC that their subordinate is not doing its job is quite a valid way to fix this. (I may be misunderstanding you, though... If I am, I apologize.) And duncansalazar, that logic applies to the D&D Minis contract, as well. It honestly sounds to me like this Devir company is bilking you on the prices, another practice which I can not see WotC tolerating. Have you tried sending these complaint e-mails directly to WotC customer support? I know they don't have a great reputation as rules arbiters, but I am sure they will respond if they get 500 e-mails in one day about a contractor providing poor service.