D&D books & minatures. [Archive] - Wizards Community

D&D books & minatures. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
SoulShepherd
04-22-05, 06:29 PM I have been playing D&D ever since second ed when I was in middle school. When 3rd ed came out I was excited. Then 3.5 came out. I thought it was kinda' cheesy and the main reason wizards came out with it was for money. It seems I was right.

I have seen a SUBSTANTIAL increase in the costs of books over the realease of 3.0 and a SUBSTANTIAL decrease in the quality of content in these books. In addition, I was also excited when minatures came out. I bought a bunch, but they couldn't keep them at $10 a pack, they had to up that too.

What is the point of this post? There is no point other than to complain. I just registered and this will be the only post I ever make on the forums. I really wasn't sure where else to lodge any kind of complaint against wizards so I figured here would be a good place.

D&D is not about money. Wizards is making it about money. The costs of the books and incresed cost of the minatures are beyond ridiculous. It seems as though every month wizards tries to release a new book and they keep stretching it. The hopeless amounts of crap and lame art have gone too far. I will not buy a single 3.5 book again unless there is a change in price and a change in content.

Take your time wizards! Spend some time to release a good book instead of "races of cheese" or "munchkins of the desert." And don't try to pawn it off for $35.

Is this post going to be deleted? I hope not, but if it is than even more so my point is proven. Is it going to get a lot of flames? I wonder...

Please wizards. Stop this money making madness and get back in touch with what D&D is really about. There is a reason Gary doesn't like 3.5. Figure it out.
Arrowhen
04-22-05, 06:46 PM I just registered and this will be the only post I ever make on the forums.
I guess there's no point in replying then.

Hope you feel better.
wordserpent
04-22-05, 07:29 PM SoulShepherd, I am sorry that you feel the way you do. D&D has always been a great game ever since the 1st edition. I will direct you here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=408679&page=1&pp=30) so that you can see for yourself why there are so many editions of D&D in the first place.

Now that you hate D&D 3.5ed, will you stop playing? Will you instead play another game? I should warn you that buying a new game will probably cost just as much as D&D 3.5ed would and for many of these games there are suppliments galore that you might want to buy just to keep abreast of things.

The fact is, Wizards of the Coast needs to keep creating new stuff so that the patrons of the company can keep the game alive. What would happen if the company that owned and produced you favorite game tanked? Why a new company would buy the rights to the game and produce yet another edition.

Where is Gary Gygax when you need him most?
Archangel_James
04-22-05, 07:30 PM Why would you even want to buy another 3.5 book? After the 3 cores, you're just paying to use someone else's imagination. Would you really buy Races of Cheese if it was $19.95? I hope not. You can make up your own Cheese men for free.
Mumakil
04-22-05, 11:36 PM You'll probably get a lot of flak for saying that here on the WotC forums. I tend to agree with some of what you posted. Hopefully, you have enough 3rd Edition material to keep you going without the need to purchase additional books.

I've got everything I will ever need to play years and years of D&D, but I will still buy a new book if it looks worthwhile after reading through it. I haven't purchased a lot of the newer books (except Lords of Madness), so I can't vouch for this, but from what a lot of folks have told me, there's a gradual power-creep thats happening with D&D products.
q'afuu
04-23-05, 12:10 AM ... I have seen a SUBSTANTIAL increase in the costs of books over the realease of 3.0 and a SUBSTANTIAL decrease in the quality of content in these books.
...
Take your time wizards! Spend some time to release a good book instead of "races of cheese" or "munchkins of the desert." And don't try to pawn it off for $35.Races of Cheese: $29.95, 192 pages, hardcover
Munchkins of the Desert: $34.95, 224 pages, hardcover

Let's take a look at the WotC D&D catalog for 3rd edition, leading up 3.5:
Hero Builder's Guidebook, Enemies and Allies: $14.95, 64 pages, trade paperback - more expensive
Living Greyhawk Gazetteer: $26.95, 192 pages, trade paperback - more expensive
Defenders of the Faith (and other 3.0 splatbooks): $19.95, 96 pages, trade paperback - more expensive
Lords of Darkness: $32.95, 192 pages, trade paperback - more expensive
Magic of Faerūn: $29.95, 192 pages, trade paperback - more expensive
Manual of the Planes: $29.95, 224 pages, hardcover - cheaper
Oriental Adventures: $34.95, 256 pages, hardcover - cheaper
Book of Challenges: $21.95, 128 pages, trade paperback - more expensive
Book of Vile Darkness: $32.95, 192 pages, hardcover - more expensive
Deities and Demigods: $29.95, 224 pages, hardcover - cheaper
Epic Level Handbook: $39.95, 320 pages, hardcover - cheaper
Faiths and Pantheons: $32.95, 224 pages, hardcover - cheaper
Silver Marches: $27.95, 160 pages, trade paperback - more expensive
Stronghold Builder's Guidebook: $21.95, 128 pages, trade paperback - more expensive
Arms and Equipment Guide: $26.95, 160 pages, hardcover - more expensive
Book of Exalted Deeds: $32.95, 192 pages, hardcover - more expensive (first supplement released after 3.5, I believe)

I don't know where you've been looking, but I don't see an increase in price when comparing these last two releases with the early ones, let alone a SUBSTANTIAL one.
weasel fierce
04-23-05, 03:39 AM While I am no fan of 3.x, and make no attempts at concealing such, registering on this message board fdor the sole purpose of complaining about such, seems rather like a waste of precious and ultimately limited bio-chemical resources, doesn't it ?
SoulShepherd
04-24-05, 08:35 PM Defenders of the faith and the other class related books started off at $10.00.
Slumbersigh
04-24-05, 09:38 PM Wizards is making it about money.
Do you mean to suggest that Wizards of the Coast seeks to make a profit from the sale of Dungeons & Dragons related merchandise? If this is in fact correct, I can only say that I am shocked and amazed that Wizards of the Coast would be so heartless as to seek to make a profit. The ramifications leave me stunned and confused. My very world is shattered, and I sit here asking that you please say your post was a ruse intended to worry the rest of us. The very thought of Wizards of the Coast seeking to profit from this infallible, charitable hobby is unthinkable.
Slumbersigh
04-24-05, 09:41 PM this will be the only post I ever make on the forums
Two hours later ...
Defenders of the faith and the other class related books started off at $10.00 you moron.
How can any of us every believe another thing you say? I am beginning to doubt your "Wizards of the Coast seeks to make a profit from our beloved hobby" story now that your true character has been revealed.
Lord Gwydion
04-24-05, 10:13 PM Well, back in the day, when I first started playing D&D, the rulebooks were lower priced. I played B/E/C/M D&D, and each box set, if I remember, was about $15. That got you two softcover rulebooks (or one rulebook and one module in the Expert Set), plus the first two each came with a set of dice and a crayon (to color in the numbers on the dice).

I think 1E rulebooks ran about $10-$15 for one hardback rulebook.

However, there's something called "inflation." It's a mysterious force that permeates the Universe, causing prices to rise cyclically along with standards of living and depending on your politics, wages as well.

When those cheap D&D rulebooks were available, a gallon of gas (US) cost what, around $.80? I wasn't driving back then, so I don't remember so well. Mass Market paperback novels usually cost around $3.50-$4.00. That I do remember. McBurgers were about $.50-.60

Now, look at prices these days. MM paperbacks are around $8. Gas is what, about $2.50 a gallon now? (I'm in Japan, where we pay a lot more for that anyway.) Burgers are what? (Again, I'm in Japan so I don't know.) Probably around a buck each.

However, on the bright side, back when D&D rulebooks cost about 1/2 to 1/3 of what they do now, I only made a few bucks a week mowing lawns and such. Now, I have a real job with a decent salary. Yes, I have more expenses than I did then, since my parents aren't providing for me anymore, but even after expenses, when I compare the rising price of RPG rulebooks to the rising balance in my bank account, I'm coming out ahead.

So SoulShepherd, is your income level still about what it was when you started playing D&D as a middle-schooler? If so, I'm sorry for you. Times are hard. If you have a higher income now than you did then, you should be thankful. Times are hard.

However, I don't see why you (and lots of other people on these boards--you're not alone) continually feel the need to bash WotC for trying to make a profit. Corporations kinda exist for that sole purpose. People are generally lazy and greedy, unfortunately, but if they weren't, they wouldn't have made these wonderful RPG products that have enriched our lives and entertained us for all these years in the first place. Sure, they may have some business practices that I don't agree with, but just about every corporation on the face of the planet does as well. Complaining to a corporation that they are doing what they are supposed to be doing (providing a product or service to their customer base at a profit to themselves) is going to get you nowhere.
weasel fierce
04-24-05, 10:16 PM Not complaining and just accepting what you are fed, is what gives you McDonalds, when you could have had a proper meal.
MerricB
04-24-05, 11:01 PM Defenders of the faith and the other class related books started off at $10.00.

Funny, I have a first printing Sword and Fist right here, and it has $19.95 on the cover.

You are gravely mistaken. Their price was always $19.95. (They might have sold for less after 3.5e came out, though).

I've got a copy of the Complete Fighter's Handbook (from 2e) here as well. It was $15. That was back in 1989.

There's a slight price increase occurring at the moment, but that's to be expected - the game has been out five years, after all.

Cheers!
Solipsisto
04-24-05, 11:49 PM I won't bother saying much on this, so I'll just give you this link here (http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/rants/rpgsaretooexpensive.html) and then say while I haven't been pleased with every RPG book I've purchased, I haven't enjoyed every other type of book I own. Sometimes I read a crappy book on the philosophy of Derrida or Michel Foucault, and other times I read a sublime book by William James or George Santayana.

I really have a hard time believing every 1E and 2E book was worth it, because I own a lot of them in PDF format, and many of them duplicate material. 3E isn't perfect, but I don't think the books are a waste of money.
weasel fierce
04-24-05, 11:51 PM If you can get anything out of a book, that you can employ in a game, its worth the money.
CycloneRanger
04-25-05, 12:14 AM D&D is not about money. Wizards is making it about money.

BRRR!!! Wrong. D&D is about money. It always has been, it always will be, and there is little you or any other individual can do to change it. Is this a bad thing? Of course not! I need money. You need money. Corporations, which have lots of people, need lots of money. If they do not get this money, they cease to exist. If these corporations don't exist, they cannot make D&D products. If D&D was not made by corporations, it would be made by idiots posting untested, poorly-spelled rules on the internet. This would be bad.

The moral of the story is, if you want a product that is even remotely playtested, spellchecked, and contains any artwork or logic, we need D&D to be all about the money, at least to the corporations who finance it.

While I am no fan of 3.x, and make no attempts at concealing such, registering on this message board fdor the sole purpose of complaining about such, seems rather like a waste of precious and ultimately limited bio-chemical resources, doesn't it ?

That reminds me of something my father says at times - "Waste of a gravity vector." As in, "He's a waste of a gravity vector." I think it may apply to our original poster here.

On a more constructive note, I don't buy every book WotC sells. I buy some of them. In general, I am happy with their products, 3.5 in particular. I bought the new core rulebooks and a few other 3.5 books (XPH and Complete Warrior) and have been pleased. The elements of the game I used to hate have been fixed.

However, I do not buy every book Wizards has made. I do not approve of the new series of books that focuses on different environments. I will express this disapproval in a far more persuasive way than simply posting angry comments here, however. I will not buy the books.
Lord Gwydion
04-25-05, 01:24 AM Not complaining and just accepting what you are fed, is what gives you McDonalds, when you could have had a proper meal.

No, making a choice to eat at McDonalds rather than cooking for yourself or choosing to eat at a proper restaurant is what gives you McDonalds.

Similarly, we gamers make choices about which games to purchase, which suplements for those games we will purchase, and which gaming corporations (who are all in it for the profit unless they're giving away everything as free .PDFs on the internet) to purchase from.

No one's forcing you to pass under the golden arches, and no one's forcing you to buy Complete Bugbear Prison Warden or Races of Unknown Pocket Dimension X.
weasel fierce
04-25-05, 01:26 AM I thought 3.5 was supposedly based on player feedback ?
MerricB
04-25-05, 01:36 AM I thought 3.5 was supposedly based on player feedback ?

Definitely. However, it isn't designed so that everyone will like it. Such is stupidity beyond imagining. There are always going to be people who don't like some of the decisions that have been made.

Cheers!
weasel fierce
04-25-05, 01:39 AM "feedback" is a polite term for "*****ing and whining" ;)
MerricB
04-25-05, 01:42 AM "feedback" is a polite term for "*****ing and whining" ;)

Hehe. :)

Seriously, Wizards get a lot of feedback from the various cards they put in their products, the online surveys, messageboards, e-mails to customer service, and probably in other ways I'm not aware of.

Cheers!
q'afuu
04-25-05, 02:10 AM Defenders of the faith and the other class related books started off at $10.00.That's a) untrue and b) even if it were true, it wouldn't make them really cheaper: $10 for 96 pages of black&white material in a trade paperback is hardly substantially cheaper than $29.95 for twice the number of pages, in colour, in hardcover format. Yes, the absolute amount is considerably lower, but looking at the number of pages and the physical quality, it's not cheaper.
StormKnight
04-25-05, 10:44 AM I should warn you that buying a new game will probably cost just as much as D&D 3.5ed would...
As a comment that his little to do with the rest of this thread, this statement is horribly, horribly wrong. Whatever D&Ds good and bad points are, there are very few other systems that you need to spend $100 for the basic stuff to play the game. Usually its one book for around $30 or so.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
SoulShepherd 04-22-05, 06:29 PM	I have been playing D&D ever since second ed when I was in middle school. When 3rd ed came out I was excited. Then 3.5 came out. I thought it was kinda' cheesy and the main reason wizards came out with it was for money. It seems I was right. I have seen a SUBSTANTIAL increase in the costs of books over the realease of 3.0 and a SUBSTANTIAL decrease in the quality of content in these books. In addition, I was also excited when minatures came out. I bought a bunch, but they couldn't keep them at $10 a pack, they had to up that too. What is the point of this post? There is no point other than to complain. I just registered and this will be the only post I ever make on the forums. I really wasn't sure where else to lodge any kind of complaint against wizards so I figured here would be a good place. D&D is not about money. Wizards is making it about money. The costs of the books and incresed cost of the minatures are beyond ridiculous. It seems as though every month wizards tries to release a new book and they keep stretching it. The hopeless amounts of crap and lame art have gone too far. I will not buy a single 3.5 book again unless there is a change in price and a change in content. Take your time wizards! Spend some time to release a good book instead of "races of cheese" or "munchkins of the desert." And don't try to pawn it off for $35. Is this post going to be deleted? I hope not, but if it is than even more so my point is proven. Is it going to get a lot of flames? I wonder... Please wizards. Stop this money making madness and get back in touch with what D&D is really about. There is a reason Gary doesn't like 3.5. Figure it out.
Arrowhen 04-22-05, 06:46 PM	I just registered and this will be the only post I ever make on the forums. I guess there's no point in replying then. Hope you feel better.
wordserpent 04-22-05, 07:29 PM	SoulShepherd, I am sorry that you feel the way you do. D&D has always been a great game ever since the 1st edition. I will direct you here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=408679&page=1&pp=30) so that you can see for yourself why there are so many editions of D&D in the first place. Now that you hate D&D 3.5ed, will you stop playing? Will you instead play another game? I should warn you that buying a new game will probably cost just as much as D&D 3.5ed would and for many of these games there are suppliments galore that you might want to buy just to keep abreast of things. The fact is, Wizards of the Coast needs to keep creating new stuff so that the patrons of the company can keep the game alive. What would happen if the company that owned and produced you favorite game tanked? Why a new company would buy the rights to the game and produce yet another edition. Where is Gary Gygax when you need him most?
Archangel_James 04-22-05, 07:30 PM	Why would you even want to buy another 3.5 book? After the 3 cores, you're just paying to use someone else's imagination. Would you really buy Races of Cheese if it was $19.95? I hope not. You can make up your own Cheese men for free.
Mumakil 04-22-05, 11:36 PM	You'll probably get a lot of flak for saying that here on the WotC forums. I tend to agree with some of what you posted. Hopefully, you have enough 3rd Edition material to keep you going without the need to purchase additional books. I've got everything I will ever need to play years and years of D&D, but I will still buy a new book if it looks worthwhile after reading through it. I haven't purchased a lot of the newer books (except Lords of Madness), so I can't vouch for this, but from what a lot of folks have told me, there's a gradual power-creep thats happening with D&D products.
q'afuu 04-23-05, 12:10 AM	... I have seen a SUBSTANTIAL increase in the costs of books over the realease of 3.0 and a SUBSTANTIAL decrease in the quality of content in these books. ... Take your time wizards! Spend some time to release a good book instead of "races of cheese" or "munchkins of the desert." And don't try to pawn it off for $35.Races of Cheese: $29.95, 192 pages, hardcover Munchkins of the Desert: $34.95, 224 pages, hardcover Let's take a look at the WotC D&D catalog for 3rd edition, leading up 3.5: Hero Builder's Guidebook, Enemies and Allies: $14.95, 64 pages, trade paperback - more expensive Living Greyhawk Gazetteer: $26.95, 192 pages, trade paperback - more expensive Defenders of the Faith (and other 3.0 splatbooks): $19.95, 96 pages, trade paperback - more expensive Lords of Darkness: $32.95, 192 pages, trade paperback - more expensive Magic of Faerūn: $29.95, 192 pages, trade paperback - more expensive Manual of the Planes: $29.95, 224 pages, hardcover - cheaper Oriental Adventures: $34.95, 256 pages, hardcover - cheaper Book of Challenges: $21.95, 128 pages, trade paperback - more expensive Book of Vile Darkness: $32.95, 192 pages, hardcover - more expensive Deities and Demigods: $29.95, 224 pages, hardcover - cheaper Epic Level Handbook: $39.95, 320 pages, hardcover - cheaper Faiths and Pantheons: $32.95, 224 pages, hardcover - cheaper Silver Marches: $27.95, 160 pages, trade paperback - more expensive Stronghold Builder's Guidebook: $21.95, 128 pages, trade paperback - more expensive Arms and Equipment Guide: $26.95, 160 pages, hardcover - more expensive Book of Exalted Deeds: $32.95, 192 pages, hardcover - more expensive (first supplement released after 3.5, I believe) I don't know where you've been looking, but I don't see an increase in price when comparing these last two releases with the early ones, let alone a SUBSTANTIAL one.
weasel fierce 04-23-05, 03:39 AM	While I am no fan of 3.x, and make no attempts at concealing such, registering on this message board fdor the sole purpose of complaining about such, seems rather like a waste of precious and ultimately limited bio-chemical resources, doesn't it ?
SoulShepherd 04-24-05, 08:35 PM	Defenders of the faith and the other class related books started off at $10.00.
Slumbersigh 04-24-05, 09:38 PM	Wizards is making it about money. Do you mean to suggest that Wizards of the Coast seeks to make a profit from the sale of Dungeons & Dragons related merchandise? If this is in fact correct, I can only say that I am shocked and amazed that Wizards of the Coast would be so heartless as to seek to make a profit. The ramifications leave me stunned and confused. My very world is shattered, and I sit here asking that you please say your post was a ruse intended to worry the rest of us. The very thought of Wizards of the Coast seeking to profit from this infallible, charitable hobby is unthinkable.
Slumbersigh 04-24-05, 09:41 PM	this will be the only post I ever make on the forums Two hours later ... Defenders of the faith and the other class related books started off at $10.00 you moron. How can any of us every believe another thing you say? I am beginning to doubt your "Wizards of the Coast seeks to make a profit from our beloved hobby" story now that your true character has been revealed.
Lord Gwydion 04-24-05, 10:13 PM	Well, back in the day, when I first started playing D&D, the rulebooks were lower priced. I played B/E/C/M D&D, and each box set, if I remember, was about $15. That got you two softcover rulebooks (or one rulebook and one module in the Expert Set), plus the first two each came with a set of dice and a crayon (to color in the numbers on the dice). I think 1E rulebooks ran about $10-$15 for one hardback rulebook. However, there's something called "inflation." It's a mysterious force that permeates the Universe, causing prices to rise cyclically along with standards of living and depending on your politics, wages as well. When those cheap D&D rulebooks were available, a gallon of gas (US) cost what, around $.80? I wasn't driving back then, so I don't remember so well. Mass Market paperback novels usually cost around $3.50-$4.00. That I do remember. McBurgers were about $.50-.60 Now, look at prices these days. MM paperbacks are around $8. Gas is what, about $2.50 a gallon now? (I'm in Japan, where we pay a lot more for that anyway.) Burgers are what? (Again, I'm in Japan so I don't know.) Probably around a buck each. However, on the bright side, back when D&D rulebooks cost about 1/2 to 1/3 of what they do now, I only made a few bucks a week mowing lawns and such. Now, I have a real job with a decent salary. Yes, I have more expenses than I did then, since my parents aren't providing for me anymore, but even after expenses, when I compare the rising price of RPG rulebooks to the rising balance in my bank account, I'm coming out ahead. So SoulShepherd, is your income level still about what it was when you started playing D&D as a middle-schooler? If so, I'm sorry for you. Times are hard. If you have a higher income now than you did then, you should be thankful. Times are hard. However, I don't see why you (and lots of other people on these boards--you're not alone) continually feel the need to bash WotC for trying to make a profit. Corporations kinda exist for that sole purpose. People are generally lazy and greedy, unfortunately, but if they weren't, they wouldn't have made these wonderful RPG products that have enriched our lives and entertained us for all these years in the first place. Sure, they may have some business practices that I don't agree with, but just about every corporation on the face of the planet does as well. Complaining to a corporation that they are doing what they are supposed to be doing (providing a product or service to their customer base at a profit to themselves) is going to get you nowhere.
weasel fierce 04-24-05, 10:16 PM	Not complaining and just accepting what you are fed, is what gives you McDonalds, when you could have had a proper meal.
MerricB 04-24-05, 11:01 PM	Defenders of the faith and the other class related books started off at $10.00. Funny, I have a first printing Sword and Fist right here, and it has $19.95 on the cover. You are gravely mistaken. Their price was always $19.95. (They might have sold for less after 3.5e came out, though). I've got a copy of the Complete Fighter's Handbook (from 2e) here as well. It was $15. That was back in 1989. There's a slight price increase occurring at the moment, but that's to be expected - the game has been out five years, after all. Cheers!
Solipsisto 04-24-05, 11:49 PM	I won't bother saying much on this, so I'll just give you this link here (http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/rants/rpgsaretooexpensive.html) and then say while I haven't been pleased with every RPG book I've purchased, I haven't enjoyed every other type of book I own. Sometimes I read a crappy book on the philosophy of Derrida or Michel Foucault, and other times I read a sublime book by William James or George Santayana. I really have a hard time believing every 1E and 2E book was worth it, because I own a lot of them in PDF format, and many of them duplicate material. 3E isn't perfect, but I don't think the books are a waste of money.
weasel fierce 04-24-05, 11:51 PM	If you can get anything out of a book, that you can employ in a game, its worth the money.
CycloneRanger 04-25-05, 12:14 AM	D&D is not about money. Wizards is making it about money. BRRR!!! Wrong. D&D is about money. It always has been, it always will be, and there is little you or any other individual can do to change it. Is this a bad thing? Of course not! I need money. You need money. Corporations, which have lots of people, need lots of money. If they do not get this money, they cease to exist. If these corporations don't exist, they cannot make D&D products. If D&D was not made by corporations, it would be made by idiots posting untested, poorly-spelled rules on the internet. This would be bad. The moral of the story is, if you want a product that is even remotely playtested, spellchecked, and contains any artwork or logic, we need D&D to be all about the money, at least to the corporations who finance it. While I am no fan of 3.x, and make no attempts at concealing such, registering on this message board fdor the sole purpose of complaining about such, seems rather like a waste of precious and ultimately limited bio-chemical resources, doesn't it ? That reminds me of something my father says at times - "Waste of a gravity vector." As in, "He's a waste of a gravity vector." I think it may apply to our original poster here. On a more constructive note, I don't buy every book WotC sells. I buy some of them. In general, I am happy with their products, 3.5 in particular. I bought the new core rulebooks and a few other 3.5 books (XPH and Complete Warrior) and have been pleased. The elements of the game I used to hate have been fixed. However, I do not buy every book Wizards has made. I do not approve of the new series of books that focuses on different environments. I will express this disapproval in a far more persuasive way than simply posting angry comments here, however. I will not buy the books.
Lord Gwydion 04-25-05, 01:24 AM	Not complaining and just accepting what you are fed, is what gives you McDonalds, when you could have had a proper meal. No, making a choice to eat at McDonalds rather than cooking for yourself or choosing to eat at a proper restaurant is what gives you McDonalds. Similarly, we gamers make choices about which games to purchase, which suplements for those games we will purchase, and which gaming corporations (who are all in it for the profit unless they're giving away everything as free .PDFs on the internet) to purchase from. No one's forcing you to pass under the golden arches, and no one's forcing you to buy Complete Bugbear Prison Warden or Races of Unknown Pocket Dimension X.
weasel fierce 04-25-05, 01:26 AM	I thought 3.5 was supposedly based on player feedback ?
MerricB 04-25-05, 01:36 AM	I thought 3.5 was supposedly based on player feedback ? Definitely. However, it isn't designed so that everyone will like it. Such is stupidity beyond imagining. There are always going to be people who don't like some of the decisions that have been made. Cheers!
weasel fierce 04-25-05, 01:39 AM	"feedback" is a polite term for "*****ing and whining" ;)
MerricB 04-25-05, 01:42 AM	"feedback" is a polite term for "*****ing and whining" ;) Hehe. :) Seriously, Wizards get a lot of feedback from the various cards they put in their products, the online surveys, messageboards, e-mails to customer service, and probably in other ways I'm not aware of. Cheers!
q'afuu 04-25-05, 02:10 AM	Defenders of the faith and the other class related books started off at $10.00.That's a) untrue and b) even if it were true, it wouldn't make them really cheaper: $10 for 96 pages of black&white material in a trade paperback is hardly substantially cheaper than $29.95 for twice the number of pages, in colour, in hardcover format. Yes, the absolute amount is considerably lower, but looking at the number of pages and the physical quality, it's not cheaper.
StormKnight 04-25-05, 10:44 AM	I should warn you that buying a new game will probably cost just as much as D&D 3.5ed would... As a comment that his little to do with the rest of this thread, this statement is horribly, horribly wrong. Whatever D&Ds good and bad points are, there are very few other systems that you need to spend $100 for the basic stuff to play the game. Usually its one book for around $30 or so.