D&D Christians [Archive] - Wizards Community

D&D Christians [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Abaneth
04-22-04, 11:59 PM As some of you suggested, I'm taking this post to a Christian Forum. Here is the URL http://www.ibelieve.com/forum.asp?sid=1&fid=4&style=2
GreyLord
04-23-04, 05:36 AM Hmm, seeing the Moderator closed the other thread prematurely, and not wanting to post on the Christian forum, I think I'll post my views to the questions you asked in the previous thread, ESPECIALLY because overall, it seems my views DO differ from others.

I am a devout christian, and if anything bothered me about D&D it was the fact that much of it was based on worlds where there was no Supreme being, but rather a greek or Roman take. Using it as official, rather bothered me, and to me, personally, does reek of occultism.

I know that there are many here who probably don't like this view, or won't take this view, or have bad feelings towards Christians in general, but in truth, this is one area of D&D which makes me rather uncomfortable. It makes me more uncomfortable when the designers go out of their way to avoid referencing ANY monotheistic worlds. The closest that I've seen as been in the Forgotten Realms, with Ao.

Now don't get me wrong, I enjoy Roleplaying, and the game itself is harmless, but adding certain elements, in my opinion, make it a rather harmful object in the wrong hands. As a Christian, something that could spread the idea, even in fantasy, that there is no All Powerful God is disturbing because it seems to try to make a fantasy where God does not exist. Now for a non-christian, or someone that hates God, a fantasy like that may be right up their alley. For me, a fantasy where God does not exist becomes more of a nightmare than a fantasy, and that is where the problem lies.

Now if one calls them deities, for some reason it doesn't seem to bother me as much, but only from the origins in Latin and Greek (deus/zeus the divine, having the nature of god) but still, in most of my campaigns instead of referring them to gods, they are merely immortals. Immortals, I may add, that can die...so actually just really powerful mortals with high levels, and awesome power.

Clerics can choose to honor aspects or morals, or even respect such immortal lords, but their ultimate authority and power either comes from good or evil.

I know it isn't kocher in many of the D&D crowds, but as a christian, if anything makes me uncomfortable, it actually is the push of a polytheistic religion.

LUCKILY, one can view those items as only titles, as the deities in D&D don't actually meet the items requisite to be deities (true immortality, all powerful, unlimited level, their word is what occurs). As such, replacing their titles with something like a Lord of flies, of Ruler of the Plane of Limbo isn't such a hard thing without destroying the flavor of the game. In addition, Gygax and Arneson were brilliant in making a game where someone could create a world where their own pantheons and creations were the rule of the day, hence a monotheistic world is possible in D&D.

Unfortunately, many choose to ignore this. This is a major reason why D&D has it's bad stigma in my book. The players and many of the people push a polytheistic fantasy devoid of the Real God, something that actually just seems rather horrific to a degree. There also was the affair with the demonic pantheons, but with the ability to slay such creatures, the worser evil comes from the polytheistic slant most take, as well as the aspects of where some of the more powerful spells come from (such as a wish HAVING to be granted by a higher being, even if cast by a Wizard, in earlier editions).

Just my views on the matter, one which I don't seem to have seen represented all that strongly here.

Don't get me wrong, I am an avid player, love the game, been playing for a while, but if anything has ever come close to driving me away from the game, it is the polytheistic slant many use with it, and not so much those that simply use the polytheistic slant, but specifically those that use the polytheistic slant and rule out any chance that there may be the True God in their RPG universes.
Will Brandiman
04-23-04, 06:24 AM Originally posted by GreyLord
Hmm, seeing the Moderator closed the other thread prematurely And I suspect that this thread may be heading the same way. With the best will in the world, discussion of RL religion almost always starts up a flame war and the CoC usually gets broken in very short order.

Just a word to the wise.
R.M.G.C.L.F.
04-23-04, 06:46 AM I think though that the moderator closed the thread before a flame war even got started.
kreik
04-23-04, 07:24 AM I understand the sensitive nature of the subject, and i think a discussion about religion and D&D could go on forever. Still, i would like to react to Greylord.

I know it isn't kocher in many of the D&D crowds, but as a christian, if anything makes me uncomfortable, it actually is the push of a polytheistic religion.

Don't you think that a monotheistic roleplaying world would be far more controversial for many christians? A world in which another god is all powerful, instead of the christian god? I say christian god, but this goes for all other monotheistic religions as well ofcourse.
I think WOTC intentionally keeps away from referencing too much to large real world religions in order to keep controversy low, and i think this is a good thing.
WizO_Catoblepas
04-23-04, 07:53 AM Ok, I'm closing this thread since it is once again bringing up discussion of real life religion. We don't allow this here on te boards since usually people have strony opinions of their religion and don't like it when their belief is taken as a topic of discussion on the boards. Please do not restart this subject on the Wizard Community boards. Thanks.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Abaneth 04-22-04, 11:59 PM	As some of you suggested, I'm taking this post to a Christian Forum. Here is the URL http://www.ibelieve.com/forum.asp?sid=1&fid=4&style=2
GreyLord 04-23-04, 05:36 AM	Hmm, seeing the Moderator closed the other thread prematurely, and not wanting to post on the Christian forum, I think I'll post my views to the questions you asked in the previous thread, ESPECIALLY because overall, it seems my views DO differ from others. I am a devout christian, and if anything bothered me about D&D it was the fact that much of it was based on worlds where there was no Supreme being, but rather a greek or Roman take. Using it as official, rather bothered me, and to me, personally, does reek of occultism. I know that there are many here who probably don't like this view, or won't take this view, or have bad feelings towards Christians in general, but in truth, this is one area of D&D which makes me rather uncomfortable. It makes me more uncomfortable when the designers go out of their way to avoid referencing ANY monotheistic worlds. The closest that I've seen as been in the Forgotten Realms, with Ao. Now don't get me wrong, I enjoy Roleplaying, and the game itself is harmless, but adding certain elements, in my opinion, make it a rather harmful object in the wrong hands. As a Christian, something that could spread the idea, even in fantasy, that there is no All Powerful God is disturbing because it seems to try to make a fantasy where God does not exist. Now for a non-christian, or someone that hates God, a fantasy like that may be right up their alley. For me, a fantasy where God does not exist becomes more of a nightmare than a fantasy, and that is where the problem lies. Now if one calls them deities, for some reason it doesn't seem to bother me as much, but only from the origins in Latin and Greek (deus/zeus the divine, having the nature of god) but still, in most of my campaigns instead of referring them to gods, they are merely immortals. Immortals, I may add, that can die...so actually just really powerful mortals with high levels, and awesome power. Clerics can choose to honor aspects or morals, or even respect such immortal lords, but their ultimate authority and power either comes from good or evil. I know it isn't kocher in many of the D&D crowds, but as a christian, if anything makes me uncomfortable, it actually is the push of a polytheistic religion. LUCKILY, one can view those items as only titles, as the deities in D&D don't actually meet the items requisite to be deities (true immortality, all powerful, unlimited level, their word is what occurs). As such, replacing their titles with something like a Lord of flies, of Ruler of the Plane of Limbo isn't such a hard thing without destroying the flavor of the game. In addition, Gygax and Arneson were brilliant in making a game where someone could create a world where their own pantheons and creations were the rule of the day, hence a monotheistic world is possible in D&D. Unfortunately, many choose to ignore this. This is a major reason why D&D has it's bad stigma in my book. The players and many of the people push a polytheistic fantasy devoid of the Real God, something that actually just seems rather horrific to a degree. There also was the affair with the demonic pantheons, but with the ability to slay such creatures, the worser evil comes from the polytheistic slant most take, as well as the aspects of where some of the more powerful spells come from (such as a wish HAVING to be granted by a higher being, even if cast by a Wizard, in earlier editions). Just my views on the matter, one which I don't seem to have seen represented all that strongly here. Don't get me wrong, I am an avid player, love the game, been playing for a while, but if anything has ever come close to driving me away from the game, it is the polytheistic slant many use with it, and not so much those that simply use the polytheistic slant, but specifically those that use the polytheistic slant and rule out any chance that there may be the True God in their RPG universes.
Will Brandiman 04-23-04, 06:24 AM	Originally posted by GreyLord Hmm, seeing the Moderator closed the other thread prematurely And I suspect that this thread may be heading the same way. With the best will in the world, discussion of RL religion almost always starts up a flame war and the CoC usually gets broken in very short order. Just a word to the wise.
R.M.G.C.L.F. 04-23-04, 06:46 AM	I think though that the moderator closed the thread before a flame war even got started.
kreik 04-23-04, 07:24 AM	I understand the sensitive nature of the subject, and i think a discussion about religion and D&D could go on forever. Still, i would like to react to Greylord. I know it isn't kocher in many of the D&D crowds, but as a christian, if anything makes me uncomfortable, it actually is the push of a polytheistic religion. Don't you think that a monotheistic roleplaying world would be far more controversial for many christians? A world in which another god is all powerful, instead of the christian god? I say christian god, but this goes for all other monotheistic religions as well ofcourse. I think WOTC intentionally keeps away from referencing too much to large real world religions in order to keep controversy low, and i think this is a good thing.
WizO_Catoblepas 04-23-04, 07:53 AM	Ok, I'm closing this thread since it is once again bringing up discussion of real life religion. We don't allow this here on te boards since usually people have strony opinions of their religion and don't like it when their belief is taken as a topic of discussion on the boards. Please do not restart this subject on the Wizard Community boards. Thanks.