D&d minis, progress or trade off for regular d&d gaming? [Archive] - Wizards Community

D&d minis, progress or trade off for regular d&d gaming? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Fion81
08-03-06, 04:59 AM Two of the pcs in the group i play with play d&D minis for reasons relating to consistency the dm has decided to use the minis to do combat scenarios.

Positive-We have consistant combat games with a bit of a board game feel and thats neat and different.

TradeOf-combat takes noticably longer, notabably about one and half times as long, maybe more. But the big issue is the fight descriptions, prior to the use of minis our dm would give lush and fitting but not wearisome descriptions that would let us know what was going on in the fight.

YOu could say that 'in fight roleplaying and descriptions' have been all but eliminated as a trade off for more accurate gaming and perhaps a mild increase in strategy, but not creativity. It somehow feels like a game of warhammer during combat, we are thinking of ditching it but the virtues are nice.

Anyone else experience something like this? What did you do about it?
WayneTheGame
08-03-06, 06:49 AM Exactly the same thing. Now, granted, I like the visual aspect that the minis give, but quite frankly I think that WotC tried too hard to ingrain the use of miniatures into D&D, so that now it's nearly impossible to run combat without it (unless you ignore things like AoOs that rely on seeing how something is moving). In 2nd edition there was no need for minis as there wasn't a whole bunch of extraneous combat rules that required you to see how far someone was moving or how close they were getting to their opponent, so minis were an addition but lush descriptions were preferred. With 3.x that trend has shifted, and IMO it has shifted for the worse. Combat takes longer and you are correct, all semblance of realism and description is shunned in favour of what feels like a mini game of Warhammer going on.
Dragonteuthis
08-03-06, 08:06 AM Interesting. My group loves minis. I've asked them countless times if they prefer gaming with or without, and the consensus is that they prefer miniatures. One of the players also DMs and he says he wishes he could use miniatures as often as I do.

I have no problem adding brief but vibrant descriptions to attacks, even while using miniatures. Your DM may adjust in time.

As for length of combat, in our group, that's always a good thing. Combats typically only last a round or two anyways, so it's not a drag at all.

Perhaps it takes some getting used to.
Sarella Starshine
08-03-06, 08:39 AM minis can be great for stratagy reasons (easier to see what will generate AoO's or not and against who, makes it clearer to see if you can charge, etc.), but, for those who feel that discriptions matter and that mini's exclude roleplaying, they see them as the bane of thier D&D existance.

your DM can still give discriptions, as he moves the minis around. the mini's are static representations of what's acctually going on in battle and they only come alive with vivid discriptions of the battle.

i like the use of mini's because *blush* i am a terrible airhead and have a hard time relating what i see in my mind's eye in regards to combat into words accurately enough to have the players understand and maybe also see what i see. plus, i like to encurage combat tactics, and it is easier to see when you can have a representation of what's going on.
razorboy
08-03-06, 09:01 AM Minis have their uses, and my players love to use them or at least some tokens and a battle-mat. However I personally do not like using minis or battlemat for anything else other than sketching a dungeon map as the players go through it. I feel that using minis tends to make combat longer, the players feel less need to describe their actions in combat - they just move their minis to the enemy and roll some dice. In fact, there is a very good reason not to use minis or battlemat. It allows me as a DM to fudge things a little, like say introduce a piece of furniture or terrain on the fly to help a player, move an opponent into the radius of player's fireball, and otherwise do those little things to help them out a bit without them noticing. Battlemat and minis tend to make encounters more static, and they make me feel like I should try and put down every single little detail down on the battlemat.
Gryllmyre
08-03-06, 09:08 AM I certainly prefer using minis. Ever since I started playing with them many years ago, I've never refereed a game without them. Especially in 3e, with flanking, tumbling, AoO's, etc., using minis is crucial to making sure things play out accurately, and (big one here) give the players a fair chance to make the most effective use of their tactical opportunities.
Sulaco
08-03-06, 09:17 AM Yes I haev teh same problem, have had for years. I love minis, all kinds of minis, and I am a virtual DDM addict. Can't get enough of the little blighters. They definitely make combat more precise, no more wondering who is where and who can reach whom, but unless teh DM is very careful it can become a board game with players sitting around concentrating on the figures and map instead of action in their minds.

I am DMing a campaign now after having take a break from it for quite a while and I find myself doing this. It has made the transition back into DMing a bit easier in a way but now I find myself more and more irked by it. To that end I am consciously forcing myself to sit back away form teh board and rely less on it. Move the figure where they need to be for positioning and whatnot but other than that ignore them.
Fion81
08-03-06, 04:04 PM I see, well our dm is meticulously minded so maybe moving away from the board wouldn't be so bad, +it does allow the dm to fudge things, and truth be told, when dms fudge things its typically in the favor of the pcs.

IDK what we should do on this, im glad to hear others have had the same problems. What exactly did you guys do about it? I think ill have me an my group take a vote on this issue on the weekend.

edit: i think alot of people enjoy minis alot becasue quite frankly they think of D&d as a combat or war game of sorts.
This is a generalization with many exceptions im sure.
And last session we did try 'roleplaying the combat over the minis' it felt like dming a game of warhammer tbh it was just awkward.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Fion81 08-03-06, 04:59 AM	Two of the pcs in the group i play with play d&D minis for reasons relating to consistency the dm has decided to use the minis to do combat scenarios. Positive-We have consistant combat games with a bit of a board game feel and thats neat and different. TradeOf-combat takes noticably longer, notabably about one and half times as long, maybe more. But the big issue is the fight descriptions, prior to the use of minis our dm would give lush and fitting but not wearisome descriptions that would let us know what was going on in the fight. YOu could say that 'in fight roleplaying and descriptions' have been all but eliminated as a trade off for more accurate gaming and perhaps a mild increase in strategy, but not creativity. It somehow feels like a game of warhammer during combat, we are thinking of ditching it but the virtues are nice. Anyone else experience something like this? What did you do about it?
WayneTheGame 08-03-06, 06:49 AM	Exactly the same thing. Now, granted, I like the visual aspect that the minis give, but quite frankly I think that WotC tried too hard to ingrain the use of miniatures into D&D, so that now it's nearly impossible to run combat without it (unless you ignore things like AoOs that rely on seeing how something is moving). In 2nd edition there was no need for minis as there wasn't a whole bunch of extraneous combat rules that required you to see how far someone was moving or how close they were getting to their opponent, so minis were an addition but lush descriptions were preferred. With 3.x that trend has shifted, and IMO it has shifted for the worse. Combat takes longer and you are correct, all semblance of realism and description is shunned in favour of what feels like a mini game of Warhammer going on.
Dragonteuthis 08-03-06, 08:06 AM	Interesting. My group loves minis. I've asked them countless times if they prefer gaming with or without, and the consensus is that they prefer miniatures. One of the players also DMs and he says he wishes he could use miniatures as often as I do. I have no problem adding brief but vibrant descriptions to attacks, even while using miniatures. Your DM may adjust in time. As for length of combat, in our group, that's always a good thing. Combats typically only last a round or two anyways, so it's not a drag at all. Perhaps it takes some getting used to.
Sarella Starshine 08-03-06, 08:39 AM	minis can be great for stratagy reasons (easier to see what will generate AoO's or not and against who, makes it clearer to see if you can charge, etc.), but, for those who feel that discriptions matter and that mini's exclude roleplaying, they see them as the bane of thier D&D existance. your DM can still give discriptions, as he moves the minis around. the mini's are static representations of what's acctually going on in battle and they only come alive with vivid discriptions of the battle. i like the use of mini's because blush i am a terrible airhead and have a hard time relating what i see in my mind's eye in regards to combat into words accurately enough to have the players understand and maybe also see what i see. plus, i like to encurage combat tactics, and it is easier to see when you can have a representation of what's going on.
razorboy 08-03-06, 09:01 AM	Minis have their uses, and my players love to use them or at least some tokens and a battle-mat. However I personally do not like using minis or battlemat for anything else other than sketching a dungeon map as the players go through it. I feel that using minis tends to make combat longer, the players feel less need to describe their actions in combat - they just move their minis to the enemy and roll some dice. In fact, there is a very good reason not to use minis or battlemat. It allows me as a DM to fudge things a little, like say introduce a piece of furniture or terrain on the fly to help a player, move an opponent into the radius of player's fireball, and otherwise do those little things to help them out a bit without them noticing. Battlemat and minis tend to make encounters more static, and they make me feel like I should try and put down every single little detail down on the battlemat.
Gryllmyre 08-03-06, 09:08 AM	I certainly prefer using minis. Ever since I started playing with them many years ago, I've never refereed a game without them. Especially in 3e, with flanking, tumbling, AoO's, etc., using minis is crucial to making sure things play out accurately, and (big one here) give the players a fair chance to make the most effective use of their tactical opportunities.
Sulaco 08-03-06, 09:17 AM	Yes I haev teh same problem, have had for years. I love minis, all kinds of minis, and I am a virtual DDM addict. Can't get enough of the little blighters. They definitely make combat more precise, no more wondering who is where and who can reach whom, but unless teh DM is very careful it can become a board game with players sitting around concentrating on the figures and map instead of action in their minds. I am DMing a campaign now after having take a break from it for quite a while and I find myself doing this. It has made the transition back into DMing a bit easier in a way but now I find myself more and more irked by it. To that end I am consciously forcing myself to sit back away form teh board and rely less on it. Move the figure where they need to be for positioning and whatnot but other than that ignore them.
Fion81 08-03-06, 04:04 PM	I see, well our dm is meticulously minded so maybe moving away from the board wouldn't be so bad, +it does allow the dm to fudge things, and truth be told, when dms fudge things its typically in the favor of the pcs. IDK what we should do on this, im glad to hear others have had the same problems. What exactly did you guys do about it? I think ill have me an my group take a vote on this issue on the weekend. edit: i think alot of people enjoy minis alot becasue quite frankly they think of D&d as a combat or war game of sorts. This is a generalization with many exceptions im sure. And last session we did try 'roleplaying the combat over the minis' it felt like dming a game of warhammer tbh it was just awkward.