Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Whisper_Swiftblade 03-17-07, 03:05 PM	Why doen't WoTC have some crossovers between Magic The Gathering and D&D? it could not be all too hard to just randomly have a mindflayer or a beholder card that happens to fit with the set (come on the dimir guild was begging for a mindflayer), or for some slivers or a mana based spell system to find there way into the next thing WotC prints? The way I see it they have nothing to loose, if some D&D players get interested in magic for the first time, or visa versa it will only mean more $$$ for WotC, and even betterinsted of just printing less than stunning books one after another they would have a compleatly new area to go into, heck they could even turn the MTG univerce (or just the courners that are most popular) into a campain setting. if memory serves WotC's most popular game right now is MTG, so why not recruit some of those players over to D&D?
Magetastic 03-17-07, 03:23 PM	Clicky (http://www.magiclibrary.net/rarities-inquest-advanced-dungeons-and-dragons.html)
Whisper_Swiftblade 03-17-07, 03:30 PM	yep, stuff exactly like that (well not exactly, I would have never thought of bigbys hand as green)
Escef 03-17-07, 03:36 PM	Maybe because it's too much of a niche market to be profitable? I recall shortly after WotC acquired TSR and D&D they had customer response cards (an animal barely known to TSR) asking if people were interested in a D&D/M:tG cross-over. As they haven't made any such animal yet, it's pretty safe to guess that the conclusion was there wasn't enough money to be made to justify the effort. (I.e., they would likely lose money on it.)
Whisper_Swiftblade 03-17-07, 03:45 PM	Maybe because it's too much of a niche market to be profitable? I recall shortly after WotC acquired TSR and D&D they had customer response cards (an animal barely known to TSR) asking if people were interested in a D&D/M:tG cross-over. As they haven't made any such animal yet, it's pretty safe to guess that the conclusion was there wasn't enough money to be made to justify the effort. (I.e., they would likely lose money on it.) perhaps, but how long ago was that? maybe things have changed. or even if D&Ders don't want MTG maybe the MTGers want D&D, have the MTG players been asked? (if you have not guessed it I an drawing at straws)
Escef 03-17-07, 03:47 PM	(if you have not guessed it I an drawing at straws) Yes. Yes, you are.
Coridan 03-17-07, 05:03 PM	Are those cards real? If so, I must have them. I wouldn't mind seeing them steal creatures from Magic the Gathering to make some Monster Manuals with. The MMs could use the refreshment. Fighting Myrs and Slivers would be fun.
Whisper_Swiftblade 03-17-07, 05:05 PM	Are those cards real? If so, I must have them. I wouldn't mind seeing them steal creatures from Magic the Gathering to make some Monster Manuals with. The MMs could use the refreshment. Fighting Myrs and Slivers would be fun. indeed, and fighting atogs would make rust monsters look like nothing
tryco 03-17-07, 05:44 PM	Fighting Myrs and Slivers would be fun. i have some myrs stats. not all but alot of them. just PM me if you want them. on topic: i would love to see dominaria and mirrodin made into an dnd universe. i would think it would be pretty profitable, given the settings are already popular under the M:tG players. there would be alot of available races, classes, spells, monsters and environment (look at mirrodin). i just don't get it why WotC doesn't grab the chance. and it would make alot of people happy. btw. can anybody get some Wizo's here and have them give their oppinions/arguments.
Ventilatory_Threshold 03-17-07, 05:52 PM	I could see this pulling some Magic players into D&D and some D&D players into Magic. There might be a larger market for it than it looks. But more importantly, you mentioned money, Swiftblade. Would I be seeing any of it?
High Octane 03-17-07, 05:56 PM	Why doen't WoTC have some crossovers between Magic The Gathering and D&D? My friend who still plays first edition whines taht they do that too much already.
Mister_Sinister 03-17-07, 07:20 PM	There was an AskWizards question recently on this subject, and effectively, they want to keep the two things separate for reasons known only to them. Apparently, too many crossovers would 'dilute' each thing or something like that. In practical reality, you can find equivalents for almost anything in MtG in DnD, and if they're lacking, create your own! It's really not hard to conceptualise, with a little thought. In fact, I would do it myself, were I at all knowledgeable about the MtG universe (I play the game, but know about 0 fluff).
Kresalak 03-17-07, 07:29 PM	I'm in the beginning stages of writing a version of MtG d20, though I doubt it would be compatible with D&D. I'll post it here when I'm done.
Ranger REG 03-17-07, 07:33 PM	if memory serves WotC's most popular game right now is MTG, so why not recruit some of those players over to D&D? Because my group doesn't want TCG players are our sessions. I'm certain the TCG players don't want roleplayers in their duels. WotC: hate their TCGs, love their RPGs.
Leo 03-17-07, 09:44 PM	Because my group doesn't want TCG players are our sessions. I'm certain the TCG players don't want roleplayers in their duels. WotC: hate their TCGs, love their RPGs. Hey, everybody in my D&D group plays magic, and doing one thing or the other, we always draw comparisons between the 2. And you can roleplay in MTG, just as you can make a duel between players in D&D. Anway, the 2 things are kept separate for several reasons: 1-mechanics don't fit well. In D&D the bigger and nastier the monster the better. In magic a swarm is 90% of the times better than a single big monster. Heck, there are little monsters that make big monsters run away in terror. 2-In D&D you want to put as many things as you want in the monsters and items. In MTG cards and monsters normally only have a couple abilities. 3-MTG:Exp? What the hell is that? D&D player:I get my abilities in a random order? WTF? They're 2 diferent games that have somehwat equal flavour. Anyway, let's not forget that it was magic that caused TSR to colapse. I'm sure there is still some grudge out there...
BlueFlames 03-17-07, 09:58 PM	You're not necessarily attracting new Magic or D&D players to the other game by trying to mix elements of the two games. If a Prodigal Sorcerer shows up in D&D and pokes a player-character with a Magic Missile, he's just a low-level caster to the people who have never played Magic before. Likewise, if a Pit Fiend makes it onto a Magic card, it's just another big, fat, late-game beast to the non-D&D players. Sure, the people who play both games will get an 'oh cool'* moment when they recognize a cross-over, but you're not actually expanding either audience. * -- Actually, for some it could be an eye-rolling moment, at the sight of a misguided and rather pathetic cross-advertising campaign. That's just the cynic in me talking, though. The rest was as optimistic as I could manage.
Ranger REG 03-18-07, 03:46 AM	Hey, everybody in my D&D group plays magic, That's why they're in your group, not mine. :evillaugh But we do have a Don't Ask, Don't Tell policy. Just don't announce you're a TCG player or get caught in the act.
a_psh 03-18-07, 04:25 AM	But we do have a Don't Ask, Don't Tell policy. Just don't announce you're a TCG player or get caught in the act.Do you have a thing against people who like to play chess or watch Star Trek or read graphic novels in their spare time, too? Are unrelated hobbies that people indulge in when they're not playing D&D somehow damaging to the experience of playing D&D? I find this weird because, to me, a session is a gathering of friends, so why the hell would you want to go out of your way to judge them and belittle them like that?
longlivetheloud 03-18-07, 04:52 AM	please. never. that would be so horrible if MTG went together with D&D. the two are like enemies. Star Trek is a excellent show, btw.
Escef 03-18-07, 06:18 AM	Anyway, let's not forget that it was magic that caused TSR to colapse. I'm sure there is still some grudge out there... No it wasn't. It was horrible mismanagement at TSR that caused it. Start reading HERE. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=807057) Likewise, if a Pit Fiend makes it onto a Magic card, it's just another big, fat, late-game beast to the non-D&D players. Like THIS?
Adrez Nesnsid 03-18-07, 07:44 AM	There was an AskWizards question recently on this subject, and effectively, they want to keep the two things separate for reasons known only to them. Apparently, too many crossovers would 'dilute' each thing or something like that. So if D&D made too many crossovers with Magic: The Gathering, it would dilute and detract from D&D's many unlicensed crossovers with the Lord of the Rings novels :D...
FrostWolf 03-18-07, 10:02 AM	Are those cards real? If so, I must have them. I wouldn't mind seeing them steal creatures from Magic the Gathering to make some Monster Manuals with. The MMs could use the refreshment. Fighting Myrs and Slivers would be fun. Yup. I have a deck made out of nothing but Inquest cards.
Kresalak 03-18-07, 01:17 PM	Like THIS? Oh come on, Lord of the Pit is so much cooler than a Pit Fiend.
Adrez Nesnsid 03-18-07, 01:28 PM	there still remains the question, however, as to whether there is any officially released D&D material that started out as Magic: The Gathering material, rather than the other way around.
Ranger REG 03-19-07, 02:35 AM	Do you have a thing against people who like to play chess or watch Star Trek or read graphic novels in their spare time, too? Well, I'm a Trek fan and like chess (even when I suck at it), so no. :uh-huh: You got something against Trek? *arms with a bat'leth*
Ranger REG 03-19-07, 02:37 AM	I find this weird because, to me, a session is a gathering of friends, so why the hell would you want to go out of your way to judge them and belittle them like that? Because I'm selective when it comes to offering my friendship.
Kresalak 03-19-07, 07:24 AM	So you can't be friends with people who play a card game?
Escef 03-19-07, 07:34 AM	Oh come on, Lord of the Pit is so much cooler than a Pit Fiend. Meh, they're both Balrog rip-offs.
Doom_Linnorm 03-19-07, 07:45 AM	I actualy already use some MTG monsters in my setting, namely the MTG style wurms. Ah I love wurms, they're nearly as cool as dragons.
Wolf_Boy 03-19-07, 07:56 AM	I remember back when Wizards of the Coast first bought D&D there was a lot of worry that D&D would become Magic the Gathering the role playing game. I think Wizards saw this worry and decided it'd be a good idea to stay away from doing precisely that.
BlackDragonStew 03-19-07, 01:20 PM	I used to play MtG, but D&D ended up winning where my money goes. They are both great games for their own reasons. I would buy a crossover book without thinking. "Monsters of MtG" would be a great D&D source book. How cool would it be to fight out a monster from MtG with a D&D character!!! Also, how about... "Magic Items of MtG" could have artifacts from the game. They might need a little creative work to make them functional in the D&D game, but that should be easier than creating a whole new book worth of stuff. my:twocents:
Doom_Linnorm 03-19-07, 01:24 PM	Don't forget "Spells of MtG" There are plenty nifty little instants, sorceries and enchantments that would make fine DnD spells.
gorckat 03-19-07, 01:43 PM	I play both games. Personally, I don't want to see: A) A metamagic feat called Flash that lets Summon Monster spells be cast without waiting for the caster's turn in the initiative order, or even after they have acted B) Razormane Masticore's in the Monstrous Manual C) Cards that read: Cure Light Wounds 1W Sorcery Target player gains 1d8+1 Life or Magic Missle XXRRRR Sorcery Deal 1d4+1 damage X number of times to up to X number of target players or creatures. This damage can only be prevented by a Broosh of Shielding. and of course Brooch of Shielding 4 Artifact Broosh of shielding comes into play with 101 Shielding Counters. For each point of damage dealt by spells named Magic Missle to its controller, remove 1 Shielding counter. When Brooch of Shielding has 0 counters, sacrifice it. But that's just me :p
Kadasbrass 03-19-07, 02:54 PM	Magic and D&D are just too different to be combined. Look at magic, they have a new setting/world every year. There is no way they could produce a magic setting that the magic players would universally accept. Plus it the settings themselves have too much major changes in them to do a real stable setting. A magic setting would take all the worse asscepts of FR and multiply them a 100 fold. Plus from my own experience magic players don't roleplay well in D&D. Often your taking people who are used to fighting each other with the most munchkin stuff possible in one game. Some may welcome the change, but others will be used to the old ways and may spend more time figthing each other then the stuff the DM gives them.
Kresalak 03-19-07, 03:13 PM	Magic and D&D are just too different to be combined. Look at magic, they have a new setting/world every year. There is no way they could produce a magic setting that the magic players would universally accept. Plus it the settings themselves have too much major changes in them to do a real stable setting. A magic setting would take all the worse asscepts of FR and multiply them a 100 fold. Dominaria.
_Jayne_Cobb_ 03-19-07, 03:45 PM	Because I'm selective when it comes to offering my friendship. I think if you are withholding your friendship on what games someone plays the more apropos word would be "fickle."
mlund 03-19-07, 05:02 PM	Why bother diluting your brands in such a way when they have a ton of value on their own? It makes it easier to manage each brand distinctly and it makes them simpler to sell off if needs be. - Marty Lund
Leo 03-19-07, 08:46 PM	Mtg...Doesn't...Use...Dice... Well, except for this chicken egg and friends.
Altar_Boy 03-19-07, 08:46 PM	I think one of the greatest problems here would be making a good enough product for those who don't "get it." Currently, Magic is doing a homage block to cards made in their first decade. As someone who played through half of it, I'm loving it, but I'm always asking new players "What do you think of Planar Chaos?", because I can imagine they have no clue what's going on. A M:TG block of D&D would have to play mechanically well (be good to draft, adhere to color limitations, etc.), which may limit their ability to make awesome representations of cards. If they print Beholder and Illithids, and they're horrible to play with, boy are the fanboys going to be mad. But if they make every ability and flavour text an obscure reference to 2nd Edition modules, Timmy, Johnny, and Spike will think it's the worst block ever. I can see why WotC wants to avoid this. But think of how cool it would be if they suceeded. :D
Ranger REG 03-19-07, 09:08 PM	So you can't be friends with people who play a card game? Only legitimate card games like poker, go fish, or Uno. TCG ... no way. :noway:
Kresalak 03-19-07, 10:51 PM	Only legitimate card games like poker, go fish, or Uno. TCG ... no way. :noway: I don't know what to say with that, other than I can't be friends with people who read books.
Terraneaux 03-20-07, 04:01 AM	Basically, he's afraid of people with competitive impulses. He likes games he can 'win' based on being in charge of a given social situation, and not be constrained by rules arbitrated equally between players.
Zumarai 03-20-07, 09:12 AM	The only thing I would maybe like to see from M:tG implemented into D&D are some of the worlds/settings: Kamigawa Revnica (sp?) Arabian Nights …etc.
tryco 03-20-07, 10:59 AM	may i add: Mirrodin Dominaria maybe... very maybe Phyrexia the books i would see: monsters of M:tG (slivers, kavu's, myr's) magic items of M:tG Spells of M:tG settings of M:tG (including races)
Zumarai 03-20-07, 11:30 AM	maybe... very maybe Phyrexia Totally – I would love to see a cool planar campaign/setting/addition based on Phyrexia. Steampunk/demon action?
Kresalak 03-20-07, 11:53 AM	Totally – I would love to see a cool planar campaign/setting/addition based on Phyrexia. Steampunk/demon action? That would actually suck. I mean really, really suck. You would have no freedom to do anything.
Zumarai 03-20-07, 11:56 AM	That would actually suck. I mean really, really suck. You would have no freedom to do anything. Well, I haven't played much M:tG since Exodus, so I'll take your word for it
Escef 03-20-07, 12:30 PM	That would actually suck. I mean really, really suck. You would have no freedom to do anything. On the contrary, Yawgmoth was destroyed at the end of Apocalypse. Phyrexia is ripe for the picking for anyone strong enough to survive it.
Kresalak 03-20-07, 01:14 PM	On the contrary, the Ineffable was destroyed at the end of Apocalypse. Phyrexia is ripe for the picking for anyone strong enough to survive it. Oh, now that's an interesting angle...
_Jayne_Cobb_ 03-20-07, 02:18 PM	It wouldn't be worth it. A lot of D&D players think MtG is childish and a lot of MtG players think D&D is stupid. The crossover may lead to a few of one group jumping to the other but it would be offset 100 times over by the histrionic fits of rage from both groups about "ruining their game." Not that any of that is justifed, of course, but I guarantee that is what would happen.
Stormonu 03-20-07, 04:25 PM	It's like the classic contest of Star Wars vs. Star Trek. Only the truly insane would try to mix them. And count me as someone with a grudge against Magic as the "killer of RPGs" - in my case all my D&D players stopped playing D&D to get involved in M:TG, not because TSR self-nuked.
Ranger REG 03-20-07, 05:48 PM	The only thing I would maybe like to see from M:tG implemented into D&D are some of the worlds/settings: Kamigawa Revnica (sp?) Arabian Nights …etc. 1. WotC already have Kara-Tur (from TSR's assets). They just need to revive it like they did with D&D. 2. Don't know what the hell is Revnica-whatev. 3. WotC already have Al-Qadim/Zakhara.
Ranger REG 03-20-07, 05:50 PM	I don't know what to say with that, other than I can't be friends with people who read books. Then read newspaper or magazines. :evillaugh
Escef 03-20-07, 06:02 PM	2. Don't know what the hell is Revnica-whatev. Ravnica, the City of Guilds. Check this out. (http://www.wizards.com/magic/ravnicatrailer.asp?size=large)
Zardnaar 03-20-07, 06:16 PM	I've played both games and theres is a little bit of overlap between the games in terms of names being used. Immediate actions are very similar to the old MtG interrupts. Theres a little bit of bleed here and there. Phyrexia is basically Mechanus merged with the nine hells. Dominaria is just a fantasy world. Ravnica is a planar city. Kamigawa=Oriental Adventures Not to difficult. I was thinking about doing Ravnica as a DnD setting in a homebrew game with the guild feats from the DMG 2.
Kresalak 03-20-07, 06:35 PM	Then read newspaper or magazines. :evillaugh Are you serious? You didn't catch that? Then let me state this more clearly: What the ****? You won't be friends with people who play a card game? You won't associate with people based on a hobby? That would be like me refusing to be around people who can do figure drawing because I hate figure drawing. That would be like, as I stated, refusing to be friends with people who read books because you like books. This is why there is (supposedly) so much stigma against D&D players. This is why we can't have nice things.
Ranger REG 03-20-07, 10:52 PM	This is why there is (supposedly) so much stigma against D&D players. This is why we can't have nice things. Why? Because we've been pushovers and we've suddenly decided to take a stand on our identity relating to RPGs? At least Stormonu understand me.
ArcTan 03-20-07, 11:00 PM	It's like the classic contest of Star Wars vs. Star Trek. Only the truly insane would try to mix them. And count me as someone with a grudge against Magic as the "killer of RPGs" - in my case all my D&D players stopped playing D&D to get involved in M:TG, not because TSR self-nuked. Right, because it's Richard Garfield's fault if people like his game better than another game, even if you don't. This particular kind of bitterness I have very little sympathy toward. If people are leaving D&D for other games, you should be asking what those games are doing right that D&D is doing wrong, not just getting bitter and angry and alienating people. As Kresalak, this kind of unwillingness to be thoughtful and self-reflective is why D&D gamers catch so much (deserved) flak for being elitist and reactionary.
ArcTan 03-20-07, 11:01 PM	Why? Because we've been pushovers and we've suddenly decided to take a stand on our identity relating to RPGs? At least Stormonu understand me. This is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. If your "identity" is so invested in a damn game you play that you won't be friends with people based on a damn game they play, you need to get a f***ing life, because you're giving everyone else who plays the game a bad name.
Kadasbrass 03-20-07, 11:57 PM	Dominaria. Yeah which part of Dominaria and which time frame. Different areas of Dominaria have been depicted at different points of history, but the whole world has never been displayed in the same time frame in a stable setting that would be good for a rpg setting. All the Dominaria based card sets jump around in both time and place and in later sets we're talking huge world changing events with each passing set. While all the Dominaria based sets are from the same world their pretty much seperate campaign setting/worlds by themselves.
Stormonu 03-21-07, 01:09 AM	Right, because it's Richard Garfield's fault if people like his game better than another game, even if you don't. This particular kind of bitterness I have very little sympathy toward. If people are leaving D&D for other games, you should be asking what those games are doing right that D&D is doing wrong, not just getting bitter and angry and alienating people. My grudge isn't against the people who play; it's against M:TG itself, and it's hard to exactly put my finger on why I dislike the game so much. I guess its due to the slow death I saw RPG's go through about two years following Magic's release; watching TSR batter themselves against the rocks with the lousy knockoffs of Spellfire, Dragon Dice and Bloodwar... I used to go to a gaming convention on the gulf coast and I'd get swarmed by people wanting to play D&D. A couple years after M:TG, the RPGs were literally gone - all that was going on was Magic tournaments. I watched the only DM at the con put up a sign saying "Players Wanted" on his DM screen - and no takers all weekend long (I tried, but he needed 3 more players). At home, I had growing trouble getting my gaming group together because all they wanted to do was play Magic, not D&D. Bad experiences, pretty much all around. I'll admit it hit on several things that D&D can't seem to do: provide an interesting mage duel between two people that doesn't end 6 seconds after it starts and can be wrapped up in 30 minutes or less of pure combat & strategy. I've tried playing the game, collected some cards and I've just come to hate it - it's not to my liking, I'm not very good at it (or collecting half-decent cards apparently) and my eyes start to glaze over when others start talking about card combos and whatnot. Coupled with the fact my money's tied up with my D&D obsession, and I just wasn't willing to get deep into it. Again, its not the folks who play it; its the game itself that irritates me, and not neccesarily because it's a bad game.
drakkonflye 03-21-07, 01:21 AM	Ravnica, the City of Guilds. Check this out. (http://www.wizards.com/magic/ravnicatrailer.asp?size=large) WOAH! Now THAT was pretty cool. Okay, as someone who plays both M:tG and D&D, this is something I would like to see more of. More animated series and/or movies based off the different world settings both games have to offer, without neccessarily bogging themselves down with the rules systems. Back to the point, though: Yes, I too would like to use the different settings from M:tG as D&D settings, and sure, the various monsters would be nice to see statted out in D&D format... But that's all. The spells and mana system wouldn't work in D&D, and I wouldn't care to see Magic spells broken down to a dice system a la D&D spells (Yeah, it was cute for Unglued, but the "token" system is hard enough to keep track of as it is). Should WotC print M:tG settings and creatures books for D&D? I don't think so, really. It wouldn't be very cost efficient for them. Heck, there's already enough background info for that to do it yourself if you really want to use it (as well as any number of posters on these boards who've made stats for the monsters; check out the monster discussion board). Besides, both games have been around long enough that anyone interested in either can find players without WotC having to criss-cross the games to point them out.
Adrez Nesnsid 03-21-07, 07:07 AM	It wouldn't be worth it. A lot of D&D players think MtG is childish and a lot of MtG players think D&D is stupid. The crossover may lead to a few of one group jumping to the other but it would be offset 100 times over by the histrionic fits of rage from both groups about "ruining their game." Not that any of that is justifed, of course, but I guarantee that is what would happen. Of course its not justified. In reality it is, in fact, MtG that's 'stupid', whereas D&D in turn is 'dorky'. Neither of them, however, is 'childish'. <--JOKE (Sort Of...)
Kresalak 03-21-07, 08:15 AM	Yeah which part of Dominaria and which time frame. Different areas of Dominaria have been depicted at different points of history, but the whole world has never been displayed in the same time frame in a stable setting that would be good for a rpg setting. All the Dominaria based card sets jump around in both time and place and in later sets we're talking huge world changing events with each passing set. While all the Dominaria based sets are from the same world their pretty much separate campaign setting/worlds by themselves. I'm using a setting 200 years after the Phyrexian Apocalypse, except I'm ignoring the events of TBTSNBN and TSTTBTSNBN. Also, Time Spiral never happened, because that's just too confusing to work in. So I can basically construct a setting, based on extrapolations from what happened during the Invasion cycle.
_Jayne_Cobb_ 03-21-07, 09:42 AM	Why? Because we've been pushovers and we've suddenly decided to take a stand on our identity relating to RPGs? Whoa, there. Whaddya mean "we?" This man does not even remotely speak for all D&D players.
Zumarai 03-21-07, 10:07 AM	At least Stormonu understand me. That's sweet – will you guys be riding the hobbyhorse soon? …Get a room.
Zumarai 03-21-07, 10:14 AM	1. WotC already have Kara-Tur (from TSR's assets). 3. WotC already have Al-Qadim/Zakhara. Yeah, exactly - I have all of the Kara-Tur (1st edition) and Al-Qadim (2nd edition) products and they are all "TSR" products. WotC just treats them like unwanted bastard children. And if we have Rokugan (which I know you loathe) and Kara-Tur, what's wrong with another Asian campaign setting (Kamigawa)?
On_the_wings_of_TPK 03-21-07, 12:16 PM	Some of the ideas could cross over. Like the next campaign world I design would be a ravinica based city world. operhaps an Ebberron block would be cool. But anything more that and it would start to fall apart. Magic missile R Sorcery deal 1d4+1 of damage to target player or creature. "I attack the darkness!" - white mage. or the planeswalker class? I don't even want to think about it.
Zumarai 03-21-07, 12:21 PM	or the planeswalker class? I don't even want to think about it. Would probably have a divine rank…
Kadasbrass 03-21-07, 01:16 PM	I'm using a setting 200 years after the Phyrexian Apocalypse, except I'm ignoring the events of TBTSNBN and TSTTBTSNBN. Also, Time Spiral never happened, because that's just too confusing to work in. So I can basically construct a setting, based on extrapolations from what happened during the Invasion cycle. Which means your having to make places up as your go. My point is that the storyline in magic is not stable for a profitable RPG setting. There is no single place or timeframe that truely defines what the magic setting would or should be. Even with a single region appears in more then one book the region changes drastically in each book. Terisiare was one of the most important areas of Dominaria in the early settings of Magic, a region I think comes closest to the center of the magic universe and best deserves a RPG, plus off all the regions/areas of Mtg has the greatest history in the books and has more information to work with. Yet the region changes in each and everybook till it is no longer interesting for the setting. But in the four and half books Terisiare appears in (five and half if your count the Thran book), the region changes drastically with each book. Starting with the Brothers war you have a war-time setting, with an entire continent being blasted away in the end. By the Gathering Dark all the places have been renamed, climates changed, culture has been redone. In Eternal Ice half the region is covered in glacier and once again cultures have changed and places renamed. With Shattered Alliance the whole world is changing again as the ice age is melting away the entire landmass of Terisiare will become a mere handful of islands with cultures in the process of changing again and areas being renamed once more. We see the end result of Terisiare in Planeswalker as it appears for the rest of the storyline of Magic, a broken collection of islands that are no longer interesting to the story and have played their part already. Yet in each case a possible setting of Terisiare would be completely different setting with each timeframe. However now that I think about it I guess that Otaria appears in the most number of books since it was the central stage of 2 entire blocks, but even then the people and places in the storyline still change during that timeframe making it difficult as a setting once more. Plus the entire history of the region is from the post-Apocalypse age which throws out the rich history that defined magic for most people early on. Magic is just too chaotic of a setting for a proper DnD setting, at least one from a buisness point of view. Most often a region/timeframe of any part of the magic storyline only appears in a single block. Sometimes three different timeframes or regions appear in a single block (Urza Saga and Mercadia Block). Only one area appears in two entire blocks back to back but still it changes drastically from set to set and block to block. People can use parts of it for homebrew, but even then your having to make up people and places to fill in the gaps. I've tried a few times at making a Terisiare setting. But there are just to many gaps, that in the end it would be mostly custom setting with just a few familar places on a map. Instead I used the history of Terisiare as influence for making my own Ice Age setting.
Tolby 03-21-07, 01:26 PM	Cross branding becomes a big issue down the road... Those that are old enough to remember it Robotech comes to mind... Cross branded to FASA (Battletech) and also to Palladium books(RPG). That brand eventually got very diluted and become a big mess when the respective companies begean to sell off thier assets.
Kresalak 03-21-07, 01:31 PM	Which means your having to make places up as your go. My point is that the storyline in magic is not stable for a profitable RPG setting. There is no single place or timeframe that truely defines what the magic setting would or should be. I agree. But it is actually this very instability that makes it work as a setting. The fluid nature of the world makes it so that important people leave a lasting mark. This means that the players of the game are important, even vital, to the setting. It's really very similar to Eberron. I have selected a single, very unstable time period to focus on, and, as such, there is no moving "metaplot", and the actions of the PCs will change how the world works.
Ranger REG 03-21-07, 09:35 PM	Yeah, exactly - I have all of the Kara-Tur (1st edition) and Al-Qadim (2nd edition) products and they are all "TSR" products. WotC just treats them like unwanted bastard children. And if we have Rokugan (which I know you loathe) and Kara-Tur, what's wrong with another Asian campaign setting (Kamigawa)?Because they haven't fully revive Kara-Tur for 3e. (A couple magazine articles and excerpts don't count.)
Zumarai 03-22-07, 04:16 AM	Because they haven't fully revive Kara-Tur for 3e. (A couple magazine articles and excerpts don't count.) I too love Kara-Tur and would like nothing else than for WotC to properly revive it. All I'm saying is that since we already have Rokugan, what's wrong with having Kara-Tur and Kamigawa, and maybe a Korean or Indian themed setting? Or my favourite – Nepal! I mean, we have enough Euro-centric campaign settings (Forgotten Realms/Dragonlance/Greyhawk/Birthright/Mystara etc), why can't we also have a myriad of Asian campaign settings?
a_psh 03-22-07, 08:03 AM	I mean, we have enough Euro-centric campaign settings (Forgotten Realms/Dragonlance/Greyhawk/Birthright/Mystara etc), why can't we also have a myriad of Asian campaign settings?Most of those are dead, too. Now you've just got FR and Eberron (GH is in suspended animation at best).
Zumarai 03-22-07, 08:43 AM	Most of those are dead, too. Now you've just got FR and Eberron (GH is in suspended animation at best). That is why I am happily ensconced in Planescape – get the best of all worlds.
Ranger REG 03-23-07, 12:43 AM	I too love Kara-Tur and would like nothing else than for WotC to properly revive it. All I'm saying is that since we already have Rokugan, what's wrong with having Kara-Tur and Kamigawa, and maybe a Korean or Indian themed setting? Then you have too many settings, and going down the same path as TSR. You also have too many projects for the handful of R&D staff to work on (i.e., edit). Don't even convince me WotC's Trading Card Game Division can do RPG. :noway: Having to choose between Kara-Tur and Kamigawa, I'd rather they focus mainly on Kara-Tur. As for Rokugan (aka Legend of the Five Rings), they sold the IP to AEG, and they're not planning future d20 books for it.
a_psh 03-23-07, 12:53 AM	That is why I am happily ensconced in Planescape – get the best of all worlds.Sometimes the worst, too. It's a tricky line to walk. (And, honestly, I liked Planescape much more for the world that it created than the older stuff it was riffing on or the elements of other settings that it worked in. Take out all connections to the Prime worlds and the game doesn't suffer much at all. Axe Sigil and you get a rather boring world.)
Reighnhell 03-23-07, 02:40 AM	From Ask Wizards on Magicthegathering.com September 13, 2006 Q: Greg Collins recently mentioned a Magic card (Gobhobbler Rats) in a wizards.com article about Dungeons & Dragons, and he called interaction between the two games "crossing the streams." Does this imply that Wizards would explode if it happened too much? Are Magic and D&D like matter and antimatter? Did Hunted Lammasu start a chain reaction that will eventually destroy the Earth? --Bill Pittsburgh, PA A: From Brady Dommermuth, Magic creative director: From a fan perspective, Bill, many think the fantasy genre is just this big, community-property pile of stuff. In this view of things, different books and movies and games add stuff to the fantasy pile, and it automatically becomes fair game for any other fantasy-themed work to take whatever it wants from the pile. But from the perspective of any given fantasy-genre work, it's really important to have elements that define you and distinguish you from everyone else, whether it's unique characters, creatures, settings, or whatever – so important, in fact, that an entire body of intellectual-property law has arisen to define and protect that uniqueness. Wizards of the Coast likes the fact that D&D and Magic are two separate entities, each with their own identities, attitudes, messages, and so on. Having them meld together or constantly reference each other would hurt the uniqueness of both. Sure, both games have swords, sorcery, elves, goblins, and other familiar elements of fantasy. But there are no beholders or drow or gelatinous cubes in Magic, nor are there any atogs, Serra angels, or Phyrexians in D&D. We believe that's a good thing. We're not dead-set against the idea of crossovers, but they would be a rare and carefully executed treat, not an ongoing, thoughtless mishmash. (As for the lammasu, that's not unique to D&D, but a creature from ancient Mesopotamian folklore. Now if it had tentacles all over its back . . . .)
tryco 03-26-07, 01:13 PM	i would like to see something like Call of Cthulhu D20, only for Magic: the Gathering. it souldn't be some sort of new market industry, but something temporally, just to make some D20/DnD players happy. included in the book should be: classes, races, spells, monsters, settings and magic items. but this time they don't have to worry about copywright: just move the papers a few floors up or down:D.
Leo 03-26-07, 05:12 PM	If you continue with this thread, Gleemax will surely will be very angry... cookie for whoever gets the reference:P
Kresalak 03-26-07, 05:47 PM	If you continue with this thread, Gleemax will surely will be very angry... cookie for whoever gets the reference:P He controls the D&D department too?
Altar_Boy 03-26-07, 07:22 PM	Which means your having to make places up as your go. My point is that the storyline in magic is not stable for a profitable RPG setting. There is no single place or timeframe that truely defines what the magic setting would or should be. IMO, that's the beauty of Magic. When I first started playing D&D, I found the idea of the "Great Wheel" to be quite confining, knowing exactly how many planes there are, as wel las the fact that the darn multiverse literally revolves around you. (Mind you, Dominaria does exist in such a place, but the past five years have shown that alternate worlds exist.) Having new worlds allow DMs to avoid the shoehorn when they want to introduce new monsters, spells, and villians. Want to hunt Lunar Ravagers? Go to Lorwyn. No need to tell your PC with 20 ranks in Knowledge (Arcana) that there's a race of fey he's never heard of before on the other side of the river. This is one of the problems with making a Magic RPG. There's no default setting. At best, there might be default spells like Stone Rain or Giant Growth that is known everywhere. As the DM of a M:TGRPG, you have to choose the world (or make up your own) and which worlds (if any) influence interact with yours. Frankly, I could really dig that. :cool:
Leo 03-26-07, 08:09 PM	He controls the D&D department too? Well, somebody is making the game tottaly unbalanced:P
Ranger REG 03-26-07, 09:15 PM	i would like to see something like Call of Cthulhu D20, only for Magic: the Gathering. :confused: :thinks: :uh-huh:
ragoftag 03-26-07, 10:39 PM	Ranger REG's point might be better put: M:tg is a marketing tool to get new players to feed the great ponzi scheme. A REAL game would be such that new cards weren't needed to revive the game and lists of banned cards weren't gilt bound. Is this being catty?
Kheti sa-Menik 03-27-07, 01:35 AM	Yuck. Keep your lame CCG out of my RPG, thank you very much.
Stormonu 03-27-07, 02:01 AM	But from the perspective of any given fantasy-genre work, it's really important to have elements that define you and distinguish you from everyone else, whether it's unique characters, creatures, settings, or whatever – so important, in fact, that an entire body of intellectual-property law has arisen to define and protect that uniqueness. Hah! Tell that to Lovecraft. For those who love to cross M:TG and D&D, all I've gotta say is someone has done it, as fan piece. There's a net book running around somewhere I've seen where M:TG stuff has been converted to D&D. Since it's not my cup of tea, I never tried to get a copy, so I can't say anything about the quality.
tryco 03-27-07, 10:24 AM	:confused: :thinks: :uh-huh: A little time ago Chaosium and WotC crossed the Call of Cthulhu game. Chaosium used the d100 version. now there's one book called Call of Cthulhu D20 by which players can get used to the CoC and the D20 version at the same time. here's a picture of the book: book picture (http://www.montecook.com/images/coc_d20_lg.jpg) now what i would like: something like what Chaosium and WotC did, only now instead of Call of Cthulhu, Magic: the Gathering. only diffrence: M:tG is a TCG instead of a RPG. that's what i meant. it doesn't have to be a major big thing, only a temporarly(sp?) one.
Ranger REG 03-27-07, 08:43 PM	A little time ago Chaosium and WotC crossed the Call of Cthulhu game. Chaosium used the d100 version. now there's one book called Call of Cthulhu D20 by which players can get used to the CoC and the D20 version at the same time. here's a picture of the book: book picture (http://www.montecook.com/images/coc_d20_lg.jpg) While I thank you for briefing me on history, it's not necessary. I did know WotC published CoC d20 as well as WoT d20 as part of the limited-run deal. now what i would like: something like what Chaosium and WotC did, only now instead of Call of Cthulhu, Magic: the Gathering. on diffrence: M:tG is a TCG instead of a RPG. that's what i meant. it doesn't have to be a major big thing, only a temporarly(sp?) one. :uh-huh: You do realize your explanation is making it worse to understand, right? I GOT the gist of this thread: Y'all want Magic: The Gathering Role-Playing Game. * :smirk: and nods his head * Not gonna buy it. :noway:
ragoftag 03-28-07, 08:47 PM	Stormonu Seen it too, can't find the bookmark, but I swiped a few things off it to patch my array of opponents, notably a better written 'trull' (?) race of undead wizard/armies. I used marginally intelligent zombie like critters led by a race of failed liches, but there was all this neat 'guts' that made their work 'Snap!" Real good ideas.
VrecknidjX 05-31-07, 09:16 AM	If you continue with this thread, Gleemax will surely will be very angry... cookie for whoever gets the reference:PHow prescient. Dave
Araxiss 05-31-07, 09:32 AM	Gleemax just reminds me of the Elder Brain of an Illithid community.