Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Trambler 05-17-06, 11:15 PM	I have bought three core rule books and i've made a group to play with. I was wondering what would be the best classes for a party of 4 or 5? Thank you.
Board_Rider 05-17-06, 11:58 PM	Using Core? I would recommend: 1. Cleric 2. Rogue 3. Wizard 4. Paladin or Ranger If you add a 5th: 1. Cleric 2. Rogue/Sorcerer 3. Wizard 4. Fighter type (Paladin/Ranger/Fighter or Barbarian) I would recommend a Fighter/Paladin multiclass. 5. Druid
TG_Ambro 05-18-06, 03:21 AM	Using Core? I would recommend: 1. Cleric 2. Rogue 3. Wizard 4. Paladin or Ranger If you add a 5th: 1. Cleric 2. Rogue/Sorcerer 3. Wizard 4. Fighter type (Paladin/Ranger/Fighter or Barbarian) I would recommend a Fighter/Paladin multiclass. 5. Druid No Bard? everone knows the bard is the best 5th party member, why? Becuase he can do everything everyone else can, not quite as good as the others but hey, that's the trade off...and besides the other party members have the privilege of hanging out with the bard....bards are cool people. :D
lokilowkey 05-18-06, 03:27 AM	The above advice is solid, but there is the most 'optimal' party you can steer the players towards, and there are player desires. Talk it over with the players and if you're lucky they will be fine in these roles, just tell them them that the challenges are greater in a 'nonoptimal' party.
Seeker95 05-18-06, 08:10 AM	loki has it right. The best party of four or five is composed of the four or five PCs that the four or five players want to play.
Board_Rider 05-18-06, 10:03 AM	No Bard? everone knows the bard is the best 5th party member, why? Becuase he can do everything everyone else can, not quite as good as the others but hey, that's the trade off...and besides the other party members have the privilege of hanging out with the bard....bards are cool people. :D Uggg...I hate the Bard. With all of the 3.5 crunch they just are not needed in my opinion. But I suppose Bards do bring the life to any party (celebration). But yes, the best party is compromised of whatever the Players want to play.
Novacat 05-18-06, 10:08 AM	Rather than choosing specific classes for the "optimal" party, just look at the basic party roles: 1. The Tank: This guy can deal out the damage, but his job is to take it. He likes that pain, and that's good, because he gets alot. Even if they aren't particularly dangerous, a Tank is upfront and personal with the enemy, making a show of being deadly, and hoping the enemy chooses to go for himself as the easiest target. This roles is best filled by Fighters, Barbarians, Paladins, and some Rangers. 2. The DPS (Damage Per Second, to borrow an MMORPGS term): This guy is small, puny, and easily pummeled. He can't necessarily take more than a couple hits from most big enemies and survive, but that alright. That's the tank's job. The DPS's job is to practically kill enemies at a touch. This guy rolls so many damage dice and adds so many bonuses or can effect so many enemies at once it's silly. This role is best filled by Rogue, Sorcerers, Wizards, Monks, some Fighters, some Barbarians and the occasional Ranger. 3. The Healer: This is the guy everyone wants to be friends with. Always, always, ALWAYS be on good terms with your party's healer. This guy should always be within a move-action's distance from the tank, and should try to stay close to the others as well. His job is simple: fix stuff, namely people. This role is best filled by Clerics, Druids, Bards, and some Paladins. 4. The Support: This guy can't necessarily do a whole lot on his own. His abilities aren't focused on singular success, but rather augmenting the abilities of others. This kind of character is a boon to any party, often stays near the back, protected jealously by the Tank. This role is best filled by Bards, Druids, Sorcerers, and Wizards. 5. Non-Specific Role: These guys don't fit solidly into any particular combat role, but are still generally useful to the party. Their abilities vary with the class, and their usefulness is highly dependent on both how they're built and how they're played. This "role" is usually filled by Monks and almost all multiclassed characters.
babysamurai 05-18-06, 10:27 AM	The best party of four or five is composed of the four or five PCs that the four or five players want to play. Totally agree. Even back in the day when I was DMing 1st edition, I never thought a party had to have a warrior-type, magic-user-type, healer-type, thief-type etc. Hell, a party of 4 Rogues, or 4 Psions, or 4 whatever can be great, as long as the players dig their characters, and the DM is aware of their abilites/shortcomings/powers etc.
Hochiu 05-18-06, 10:27 AM	You should at least have a healer, and if you're exploring dungeons with traps, at least a rogue. A lot of the times it's really up to how the game is going to go. I've seen games where the lineup that is generally thought of "the" core lineup (That is, Fighter, Wizard, Cleric and Rogue) wouldn't be appropriate. The best classes for a party of four or five? Its up to the DM and what he wants to play, in all honesty. There's really no "bad" party, because the DM should be able to make ANY combination of classes work.
AkaKageWarrior 05-18-06, 10:57 AM	I agree with Hochiu, you need definitely at least 2 types: 1) a healer (cleric is a great class) 2) a scout (ranger or rogue, depends if you'll have lots of traps) AKW
LittleCarp04 05-18-06, 11:12 AM	our group has a fey-ri swashbuckler, a drow rogue, a halfling ninja, a human fighter, and a elf druid, and we do ok, but by no means are we optimal...
Elric Lornhood 05-18-06, 11:58 AM	loki has it right. The best party of four or five is composed of the four or five PCs that the four or five players want to play. In applying this to the act of adventuring in the campaign the DM is going to run, this is only 'mechanically' true if the DM is going to make the campaign around what the players want to play. If you're just using standard adventures, paying no heed to the fact that the party, just for example, has a ranger as its' front liner and no wizard/sorcerer, then they could be in for some pain at times. But in theory, you should apply character desires to the campaign if at all possible anyway.
Seeker95 05-18-06, 12:08 PM	In light of some of the comments above, I would like to amend my statement above. Assuming the players don't care what they play, a party of four or five clerics is the best, as long as they all worship compatible deities. All can heal. And each can assume the roles normally adopted by other classes. Sometimes at the same time.
Garidas 05-18-06, 01:40 PM	Class advice: 1. Cleric (Always think about the healer first). 2. Rogue or Ranger (Ranger can be a good stealth unit, but Rogue is better for stealth, disabling traps and stealing things). 3. Sorcerer or Wizard (Wizard needs to make spells ready but Sorcerer doesn't have to. Wizards get bonus feats that is good. I would recommend Wizard but a Races of Dragon race or template, then you should use Sorcerer). 4. Paladin or Fighter (If you need a secondary healer it is good but the Fighter is the best melee attacker that you can get). Game-Play Advice: 1. Have the healer ready to heal, all time. 2. Make sure that the stealth guy walk in the shadow and attack from the shadow. Make sure he uses his trap disable skill and to find traps. Also that he uses his sneak attack most the time, it will help a lot. 3.Have the arcane spellcaster away from the enemies and out of danger. The arcane spellcaster should use his spells while he can but always keep him away from danger. 4. The fighter/paladin will always have to be in the front killing the monster and defending the arcane spellcaster. And try to get other characters out of enemies danger if they are in trouble. I hope this will help, Garidas
swindy 05-18-06, 02:18 PM	What i do when i DM is let them choose what they want to be, then include what they can or should be able to handle, and remove what i doubt they can.
ghost_warlock 05-18-06, 02:43 PM	I second this: Assuming the players don't care what they play, a party of four or five clerics is the best, as long as they all worship compatible deities. All can heal. And each can assume the roles normally adopted by other classes. Sometimes at the same time. and can provide a humorous example of why this is true: Go team cleric! (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=77)
Darkxarth 05-18-06, 02:59 PM	Depends on where you adventure. Urban Setting: 1. Rogue- A must for any Urban campaign 2. Cleric- Clerics are useful anywhere 3. Fighter/Paladin- Fighters are also useful anywhere; Paladins, it depends on the people in the area 4. Wizard/Sorcerer/Bard- The old "Wizard vs. Sorcerer" argument; Bards have some spells, but no real combat spells, but they're about as useful as the Rogue in an Urban setting 5. Monk- Monks can be very useful, they're fast, powerful, and can fight without weapons. Outdoor Setting: 1. Ranger- A must for any Outdoor campaign 2. Druid- A decent healer, and another Outdoor must 3. Fighter/Paladin/Barbarian- Fighters and Paladins are useful; Barbarians are probably a better warrior for an Outdoor campaign 4. Sorcerer/Wizard/Bard- Probably the Bard is what you'll want, in case you need to go indoors or to a city 5. Monk/Rogue- Monks, as mentioned above, are always useful; Rogues may be useful like the Bard, for cities and dungeons Anywhere Setting: For a campaign where you go from the great outdoors, to sprawling dungeons, to grand cities. 1. Ranger/Druid/Barbarian- Your "Outdoorsy" type 2. Rogue/Bard- Your "Stealthy, Jack-of-All-Trades" type 3. Paladin/Cleric- Your "Religious Healer/Sometimes Warrior" type 4. Sorcerer/Wizard- Your "Mage" type 5. Monk- The Monk is just the "Odd Man Out" type These are all basically the stereotypical parties. It's okay to have a party of a Barbarian, a Druid, a Cleric, and a Paladin. But they may not all get along well. A party of a Rogue, a Bard, a Ranger, and a Sorcerer could be interesting too, but probably not the best for straight combat.
WolfHati 05-18-06, 04:27 PM	A group of whatever, and then craft the adventure around what they are good at doing. Far more fun and interesting that way.
swindy 05-18-06, 10:52 PM	A group of whatever, and then craft the adventure around what they are good at doing. Far more fun and interesting that way. My point exactly.
Nom 05-18-06, 11:45 PM	With the exception of emergencies (eg lucky x3 crit drops a PC into the negatives), combat healing is typically a waste of time. Most clerics can easily deal more damage per round than they can heal. Eliminate your opponents fast, then use a wand of cure light wounds to heal at your leisure. The quicker you eliminate opponents, the less damage they do to you and the less healing you actually need.
Trambler 05-21-06, 06:21 PM	Okay, thanks a lot. You really helped. :)