D&D problem [Archive] - Wizards Community

D&D problem [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Goblin Commander
07-01-05, 11:03 PM well i've been haveing alot of trouble getting my friend to play dnd. He is ( his parents ) are for some reason convinced that D&D is demonic. Because of some stuff that happened in the 80's that he doesn't even know about. I,ve already put alot of money in to dnd and i was wondering about eberron? What is it? i know it is in relation to dnd but how much?

Thx in advance :D
Darien_CR
07-01-05, 11:17 PM Mmmm....I have an article about roleplaying that has helped me change people's attitude towards it. The bad news is it's in Spanish.
I guess there must be some similar article in English for you on the net, so I suggest you look for it.

Eberron is a campaign setting (just like Forgotten Realms, Rokugan, Greyhawk, etc).
Knights_Disciple
07-01-05, 11:30 PM I don't know much about Eberron, so I can't really help you there.
Ok. You need to find out more about just what this guy's parents object to about the game. Ultimately, if this guy does not personally feel comfortable playing it, don't try to force him to.
But the following link is an excellent take on the game: http://www.mjyoung.net/dungeon/confess.html . The author, like me, is a Christian. I imagine that is the faith of the person you refer to. Show him this. Talk honestly with him about the game, and listen respectfully to his objections. Try to deal with them as best you can. But don't get defensive. Ultimately, this is just a game. If he really doesn't want to play, it's no big deal.
Remind him that the writings of great Christian authors C.S. Lewis and J.R.R. Tolkien involve orcs and elves and dwarves and even magic. So those topics, in and of themselves, are not bad. It's how you treat them.
If you are going to be the DM, be aware of the sensitivities he will bring with him. If you are just a player, make the DM aware of this in a respectful and discreet manner.

Please don't ban me, Wizos. I'm not trying to start moral arguments or anything, just offer advice and perspective.
spamfiltre
07-01-05, 11:35 PM Parents are unlikely to change their minds based on anything you have to say, but if you plan to argue your point, do your research first.

Try a public library. Ask a reference librarian to help you find articles and books that discuss D&D as a normal hobby.

Many libraries carry a limited selection of sourcebooks, so librarians shouldn't be completely unaware of what you need.

Use existing WotC material, too. Living Greyhawk clearly spells out the heroic nature of (that version of) the game. Use it to your advantage to show how the game designers are against acting "evil."
guru7892
07-01-05, 11:35 PM guns dont kill people.
people kill people.

pencils dont mispell words
keyboards dont mistype things
and widows doesn't, well acually, it just might....

to think that d&d kills people is a VERY big stretch. cigs have poison in them, charictar sheets dont (but dont smok'em).

oh and if they catholic, tell them that jhon chick is one of the leaders in anti-d&d movements. and hes the same guy that says catholics change the bible.

but i say, tell them that guns dont kill people, people kill people, its your strongest argument(or your weakest if they dont agree with that). you could argue that the game had gone through many changes since the 80's, and tell them that you dont think there is any danger, and that if you ever thought there was a danger you'd stop.

also if your freinds are mental, or prone to skitzofrenia(sp?) that kinda stuff, they should be in a hospital and in a jacket, not playing d&d.
Goblin Commander
07-02-05, 01:13 AM I understand his parents dont want him to play dnd. and i respect that. and i in no means want to force him to play. I was just wondering if ebberon was the same as dnd and maby if his parents would let him play it.
Knights_Disciple
07-02-05, 01:23 AM Well, to my understanding, there's "traditional" D&D. It's set in Greyhawk. Eberron is a somewhat different world. More technology, but no less magic really. Slightly different races and classes. Still "technically" D&D, but maybe different enough. I dunno. It's not a huge difference, from what little I know.
Goblin Commander
07-02-05, 01:37 AM well i just looked up a little to and by what i see they shouldnt have that much of a problem i think. Its more of a wartorn world and has alot more technology but magic none the less. His parents for some reason think DnD is evil and demonic mearly beacause some group of kids supposeingly killed themselfs over it...but when i ask him about it he couldnt back it up he doesnt even know what happend!! Im sure these kids were drinking or doing drugs..and probally looking at anything with pictures would have gotten them the same results but it had to be DnD. His parents let him play the Starwars roleplaying game...despite its obvious good Vs evil elements just look at a yaavin vong ( i think thats how its spelled?) their faces are pretty much held together by meat hooks.but sadly im almost positive any thing with dnd anywhere on it is prohibited....thanks for the help i suppose i should just give up and succumb to the starwars roleplaying game :(
Gagnrath
07-02-05, 02:06 AM I'd strongly reccoment the chic flick... as set of comic strips on various religious issues by jack chick. There is one spcifically concerning D&D. here is the link if this doesn't convince the parents they're nuts well then they have no sense of irony,
Bulabase
07-03-05, 01:46 AM I would not give up so easily if I were you. The fact that the parents allow their child to play SWRPG is very encouraging. If they were opposed to D&D for serious, deeply felt and legitimate spiritual/religious reasons, I doubt they would condone anything related to Star Wars. Your friend's parents probably remember some of the well-publicized stories about D&D being associated with suicides.

Their concerns are not illegitimate. They are simply based on misinformation. The cases in question did indeed involve highly unstable individuals with well-documented mental health problems before they even started playing D&D. I will try to find you some more specific and credible information that you could share with your friend and his parents.

If they are reasonable people, they can probably be convinced. Just remember, they are only trying to protect their child from something they understand to be harmful. They are not bad, just misguided.
High Octane
07-03-05, 10:54 AM well i just looked up a little to and by what i see they shouldnt have that much of a problem i think. Its more of a wartorn world and has alot more technology but magic none the less. His parents for some reason think DnD is evil and demonic mearly beacause some group of kids supposeingly killed themselfs over it...but when i ask him about it he couldnt back it up he doesnt even know what happend!! Im sure these kids were drinking or doing drugs..and probally looking at anything with pictures would have gotten them the same results but it had to be DnD. His parents let him play the Starwars roleplaying game...despite its obvious good Vs evil elements just look at a yaavin vong ( i think thats how its spelled?) their faces are pretty much held together by meat hooks.but sadly im almost positive any thing with dnd anywhere on it is prohibited....thanks for the help i suppose i should just give up and succumb to the starwars roleplaying game :(

Tell them this, and I swear on everything that this is true, and I have no problems talking about this:

When I was around 18-19 I had suicidal thoughts. It's normal for a lot of teenagers. However I noticed I stopped having them around 20. The time I stopped having them was after I joined my first real D&D group.

You can tell her that D&D stopped me from ever thinking of suicide seriously again.

D&D is a very healthy group activity. It works on so many levels to promote a healthy mental attitude.

For one thing, D&D is rarely judgemental. I have always been accepted in any group. Its also low pressure. Your character dies, so what? Worst that can happen is you get to play a new character now!

For another thing, it is a social game. It promotes teamwork and helps people learn social skills through interaction in and out of game.

Also, it allows players to step out of themselves and play someone else for a while. The more people you play, the more views you get to see the world in. Thusly it promotes free thinking and seeing from other people views.

Finally, its a creative vent. Its a way for people to vent ideas that have been building up, if not just flat out be free and creative in many fashions.

Oh and did I mention it's fun? Also, if those commercials are right, "kids with things to do are less likely to do drugs."

D&D seems like a fun thing to do. Lets do that instead of crack.
Mr Dark
07-03-05, 12:13 PM Try reading The Pulling Report (http://www.rpg.net/sites/252/quellen/stackpole/pulling_report.html). Michael Stackpole did an investigation on Patricia Pulling who was the ringleader in the anti-D&D movement in the 80's. It clairifies the rumors and talks with those that supposedly did things dude to D&D. Follow the link above for the full report.

He also wrote a leser known followup called Role Playing Games and Satanism (http://www.locksley.com/6696/rpgsatan.htm) which is just as good if not better. These two documents are possibly the best defense against the lingering ghosts of these misconceptions.
Ut-Napishtim
07-03-05, 01:09 PM My folks were never a fan of D&D either, and I had to sneak off and hide stuff to play it. One thing I found out laster on though is a lot of people (my folks included) don't mind roleplaying - they're just worried about the D&D "brand" that has gotten some bad press. One of my friends introduced me to GURPS, and my folks didn't have a problem with it so I could finally game openly. Since GURPS is universal you can still play fantasy with it, and a lot of other stuff too. It's not as user friendly as D&D, but it's not as bad as Palladium either. Could work for you, it did for me.
Bulabase
07-03-05, 04:12 PM Since GURPS is universal you can still play fantasy with it, and a lot of other stuff too.
This gives me an idea. If you want to play D&D but your friend's folks can't tolerate the brand name, just play SRD (http://rds.yahoo.com/S=2766679/K=srd+wizards/v=2/SID=e/l=WS1/R=1/IPC=us/SHE=0/H=0/;_ylt=Ar_6D.ppNxfad3ZvyCbB_RJXNyoA/SIG=11v9dpbqr/EXP=1120507586/*-http%3A//www.wizards.com/?x=d20/article/srd35). The game sure seems a lot like D&D, but lacks that pesky name. Of course, there are a few things missing, like XP charts and the like, but as long as you have a PH at home, what they don't know won't hurt them. I don't know if you would actually want to try this, but it would certainly underscore the capriciousness of your friend's parent's objections to the D&D game.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Goblin Commander 07-01-05, 11:03 PM	well i've been haveing alot of trouble getting my friend to play dnd. He is ( his parents ) are for some reason convinced that D&D is demonic. Because of some stuff that happened in the 80's that he doesn't even know about. I,ve already put alot of money in to dnd and i was wondering about eberron? What is it? i know it is in relation to dnd but how much? Thx in advance :D
Darien_CR 07-01-05, 11:17 PM	Mmmm....I have an article about roleplaying that has helped me change people's attitude towards it. The bad news is it's in Spanish. I guess there must be some similar article in English for you on the net, so I suggest you look for it. Eberron is a campaign setting (just like Forgotten Realms, Rokugan, Greyhawk, etc).
Knights_Disciple 07-01-05, 11:30 PM	I don't know much about Eberron, so I can't really help you there. Ok. You need to find out more about just what this guy's parents object to about the game. Ultimately, if this guy does not personally feel comfortable playing it, don't try to force him to. But the following link is an excellent take on the game: http://www.mjyoung.net/dungeon/confess.html . The author, like me, is a Christian. I imagine that is the faith of the person you refer to. Show him this. Talk honestly with him about the game, and listen respectfully to his objections. Try to deal with them as best you can. But don't get defensive. Ultimately, this is just a game. If he really doesn't want to play, it's no big deal. Remind him that the writings of great Christian authors C.S. Lewis and J.R.R. Tolkien involve orcs and elves and dwarves and even magic. So those topics, in and of themselves, are not bad. It's how you treat them. If you are going to be the DM, be aware of the sensitivities he will bring with him. If you are just a player, make the DM aware of this in a respectful and discreet manner. Please don't ban me, Wizos. I'm not trying to start moral arguments or anything, just offer advice and perspective.
spamfiltre 07-01-05, 11:35 PM	Parents are unlikely to change their minds based on anything you have to say, but if you plan to argue your point, do your research first. Try a public library. Ask a reference librarian to help you find articles and books that discuss D&D as a normal hobby. Many libraries carry a limited selection of sourcebooks, so librarians shouldn't be completely unaware of what you need. Use existing WotC material, too. Living Greyhawk clearly spells out the heroic nature of (that version of) the game. Use it to your advantage to show how the game designers are against acting "evil."
guru7892 07-01-05, 11:35 PM	guns dont kill people. people kill people. pencils dont mispell words keyboards dont mistype things and widows doesn't, well acually, it just might.... to think that d&d kills people is a VERY big stretch. cigs have poison in them, charictar sheets dont (but dont smok'em). oh and if they catholic, tell them that jhon chick is one of the leaders in anti-d&d movements. and hes the same guy that says catholics change the bible. but i say, tell them that guns dont kill people, people kill people, its your strongest argument(or your weakest if they dont agree with that). you could argue that the game had gone through many changes since the 80's, and tell them that you dont think there is any danger, and that if you ever thought there was a danger you'd stop. also if your freinds are mental, or prone to skitzofrenia(sp?) that kinda stuff, they should be in a hospital and in a jacket, not playing d&d.
Goblin Commander 07-02-05, 01:13 AM	I understand his parents dont want him to play dnd. and i respect that. and i in no means want to force him to play. I was just wondering if ebberon was the same as dnd and maby if his parents would let him play it.
Knights_Disciple 07-02-05, 01:23 AM	Well, to my understanding, there's "traditional" D&D. It's set in Greyhawk. Eberron is a somewhat different world. More technology, but no less magic really. Slightly different races and classes. Still "technically" D&D, but maybe different enough. I dunno. It's not a huge difference, from what little I know.
Goblin Commander 07-02-05, 01:37 AM	well i just looked up a little to and by what i see they shouldnt have that much of a problem i think. Its more of a wartorn world and has alot more technology but magic none the less. His parents for some reason think DnD is evil and demonic mearly beacause some group of kids supposeingly killed themselfs over it...but when i ask him about it he couldnt back it up he doesnt even know what happend!! Im sure these kids were drinking or doing drugs..and probally looking at anything with pictures would have gotten them the same results but it had to be DnD. His parents let him play the Starwars roleplaying game...despite its obvious good Vs evil elements just look at a yaavin vong ( i think thats how its spelled?) their faces are pretty much held together by meat hooks.but sadly im almost positive any thing with dnd anywhere on it is prohibited....thanks for the help i suppose i should just give up and succumb to the starwars roleplaying game :(
Gagnrath 07-02-05, 02:06 AM	I'd strongly reccoment the chic flick... as set of comic strips on various religious issues by jack chick. There is one spcifically concerning D&D. here is the link if this doesn't convince the parents they're nuts well then they have no sense of irony,
Bulabase 07-03-05, 01:46 AM	I would not give up so easily if I were you. The fact that the parents allow their child to play SWRPG is very encouraging. If they were opposed to D&D for serious, deeply felt and legitimate spiritual/religious reasons, I doubt they would condone anything related to Star Wars. Your friend's parents probably remember some of the well-publicized stories about D&D being associated with suicides. Their concerns are not illegitimate. They are simply based on misinformation. The cases in question did indeed involve highly unstable individuals with well-documented mental health problems before they even started playing D&D. I will try to find you some more specific and credible information that you could share with your friend and his parents. If they are reasonable people, they can probably be convinced. Just remember, they are only trying to protect their child from something they understand to be harmful. They are not bad, just misguided.
High Octane 07-03-05, 10:54 AM	well i just looked up a little to and by what i see they shouldnt have that much of a problem i think. Its more of a wartorn world and has alot more technology but magic none the less. His parents for some reason think DnD is evil and demonic mearly beacause some group of kids supposeingly killed themselfs over it...but when i ask him about it he couldnt back it up he doesnt even know what happend!! Im sure these kids were drinking or doing drugs..and probally looking at anything with pictures would have gotten them the same results but it had to be DnD. His parents let him play the Starwars roleplaying game...despite its obvious good Vs evil elements just look at a yaavin vong ( i think thats how its spelled?) their faces are pretty much held together by meat hooks.but sadly im almost positive any thing with dnd anywhere on it is prohibited....thanks for the help i suppose i should just give up and succumb to the starwars roleplaying game :( Tell them this, and I swear on everything that this is true, and I have no problems talking about this: When I was around 18-19 I had suicidal thoughts. It's normal for a lot of teenagers. However I noticed I stopped having them around 20. The time I stopped having them was after I joined my first real D&D group. You can tell her that D&D stopped me from ever thinking of suicide seriously again. D&D is a very healthy group activity. It works on so many levels to promote a healthy mental attitude. For one thing, D&D is rarely judgemental. I have always been accepted in any group. Its also low pressure. Your character dies, so what? Worst that can happen is you get to play a new character now! For another thing, it is a social game. It promotes teamwork and helps people learn social skills through interaction in and out of game. Also, it allows players to step out of themselves and play someone else for a while. The more people you play, the more views you get to see the world in. Thusly it promotes free thinking and seeing from other people views. Finally, its a creative vent. Its a way for people to vent ideas that have been building up, if not just flat out be free and creative in many fashions. Oh and did I mention it's fun? Also, if those commercials are right, "kids with things to do are less likely to do drugs." D&D seems like a fun thing to do. Lets do that instead of crack.
Mr Dark 07-03-05, 12:13 PM	Try reading The Pulling Report (http://www.rpg.net/sites/252/quellen/stackpole/pulling_report.html). Michael Stackpole did an investigation on Patricia Pulling who was the ringleader in the anti-D&D movement in the 80's. It clairifies the rumors and talks with those that supposedly did things dude to D&D. Follow the link above for the full report. He also wrote a leser known followup called Role Playing Games and Satanism (http://www.locksley.com/6696/rpgsatan.htm) which is just as good if not better. These two documents are possibly the best defense against the lingering ghosts of these misconceptions.
Ut-Napishtim 07-03-05, 01:09 PM	My folks were never a fan of D&D either, and I had to sneak off and hide stuff to play it. One thing I found out laster on though is a lot of people (my folks included) don't mind roleplaying - they're just worried about the D&D "brand" that has gotten some bad press. One of my friends introduced me to GURPS, and my folks didn't have a problem with it so I could finally game openly. Since GURPS is universal you can still play fantasy with it, and a lot of other stuff too. It's not as user friendly as D&D, but it's not as bad as Palladium either. Could work for you, it did for me.
Bulabase 07-03-05, 04:12 PM	Since GURPS is universal you can still play fantasy with it, and a lot of other stuff too. This gives me an idea. If you want to play D&D but your friend's folks can't tolerate the brand name, just play SRD (http://rds.yahoo.com/S=2766679/K=srd+wizards/v=2/SID=e/l=WS1/R=1/IPC=us/SHE=0/H=0/;_ylt=Ar_6D.ppNxfad3ZvyCbB_RJXNyoA/SIG=11v9dpbqr/EXP=1120507586/*-http%3A//www.wizards.com/?x=d20/article/srd35). The game sure seems a lot like D&D, but lacks that pesky name. Of course, there are a few things missing, like XP charts and the like, but as long as you have a PH at home, what they don't know won't hurt them. I don't know if you would actually want to try this, but it would certainly underscore the capriciousness of your friend's parent's objections to the D&D game.