Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Orion_II 12-03-04, 05:51 PM	There are some VERY strange occurances in D&D; it would appear the WOTC did a good job in humanoid vs humanoid tactics, as well as spells, but missed a few rather, large things. Knockdown Under the current rules, you could hit a halfling wizard with a PLANET and the only result would be HP damage and (assuming he survived) the potential loss of a spell he was casting at the time he was hit! Shouldn't the little guy get knocked sprawling when a Half-Orc Barbarian smacks him upside the head with his GreatAxe? Shields Under the current rules, anyone using a shield when exposed to say, a dragon's breath tries to dodge the attack, rather than do the obvious thing and HIDE BEHIND THEIR SHIELD??? With this system, a Shield is about as useful as running around naked. Shouldn't they provide at least a small bonus to Reflex saves? Paladins With the current ruling system, a Paladin of Pelor is, game mechanically wise, identical to a Paladin of the Church of Silver Flame. Since Paladins are particularly close to their deities, shouldn't they get something to reflect this? Church of Silver Flame Why isn't Fire one of thier domains?
dragnkpr 12-03-04, 06:34 PM	Good point. While not very game practical, it does make an amusing post. I suppose the problem with a reflex bonus from shields is that the size of the bonus changes depending on the situation. A dragon's breath would simply go around the shield, unless it was coming from a very small dragon. An electric breath would probably conduct through the shield, unless it was wood in which case it would set the shield on fire. If you wanted to get technical about it, a dragon's breath weapon would most likely destroy nearly any nonmagical armor and most magical armor. If it didn't destroy it, a fire breath would heat all your metal items to the point where you'd get third degree burns. If you must give a bonus, I'd give a +1 for small, +2 for large and +3 or 4 for tower shields. As for not getting knocked over from attacks, there are also no rules for loss of limbs and things like getting a sword through your eye to your brain, unless you just assume that's what happens when you get killed by death from massive damage. I suppose you could rule that if any attack does 1/5 of your total hit points you get knocked over if you lose at an opposed strength check. I think they assume that you can fight well enough to stay on your feet when you get hit. ...I don't play paladins enough to say anything about that, but it seems fair enough to maybe give them one of their deity's domains as long as you can balance it in game play. Overall there are quirks in the rules, but the DM has absolute power (within the text) and can make a rule on his/her own.
Seeker95 12-03-04, 08:33 PM	The knockdown happens if the half-orc tries a bullrush or a trip. Otherwise, we can assume that getting knocked down accidently implies your opponent wasn't expecting it either, and has no opportunity to take advantage of it. As for getting hit by a planet, the DM can easily rule that any slam by a planet is also a bullrush. A shield would be as effective at protecting you from a dragon's flame as it would from keeping you from getting wet from a crashing wave at the beach. Every paladin is as different from every other as the player wants him to be. Feat and skill selection, spell selection, weapon choices, magic item selection... variance is not at the macro-level. It is made at the level of player choice.
Gurv 12-03-04, 08:57 PM	Very funny points. I think in most of those cases, the game assumes that you are going to use some of your own logic. A halfling wizard hit by a planet isn't knocked prone: he is dead, like everyone else he knows. While ogre may not be able to 'accidently' knock him down, there are feats the ogre could take, feats that would allow him to leave the halfling prone and vastly favor the ogre, which the DM could describe as something the ogre did as a matter of course. Just because a player or the DM makes use of a feat does not means that the -character- or the -NPC- made a decision to do so. Although you may have a point about using a shield to cover yourself, ask yourself if perhaps the reason you get a Reflex save is to see IF you can find some cover. Whether a successful save is described as "hitting the deck", "diving behind a rock", or "raising your shield to catch most of the blast" is up to the individual describing things. Oh, and a tower shield can be used to get total cover, which DOES grants a bonus to the save. And the individuality of paladins is there, in the skills, feats, and attitude of the character. Just because they player gets to make those choices doesn't mean that the character did. With a little roleplaying, a paladin can can be "following the dictates of his religion" while at the same time getting exactly the skills and feats that the player wants him to have. And Fire isn't one of the Silver Flame's domains because the actual Silver Flame is simply a manifestation of the power being worshiped. The religion doesn't have anything to do with fire, burning, heat, elementals, or any of the other things that the domain grants.
Androlphas 12-03-04, 08:58 PM	A shield would be as effective at protecting you from a dragon's flame as it would from keeping you from getting wet from a crashing wave at the beach. LOL...I love the mental image of that. You've given me the Laugh of the Day :D I think a common misconception with paladins in 3.0/3.5 is that their powers are tied to the worship of a particular god. The PHB indicates that the paladin need not even have a religion, that their devotion to righteousness is enough to give them their powers. So in essence, a paladin of Pelor and a paladin of the Silver Flame are the same (at least in powers and moral outlook). Paladins can be as "close" to their chosen deity as much as any other character since they are not clerics, and furthermore not beholden to them in any way. Which I guess is why paladins tend to worship gods with similar ideals.
caeruleus 12-03-04, 10:42 PM	As for getting hit by a planet, the DM can easily rule that any slam by a planet is also a bullrush. That is such a great line. Especially if it were taken out of context. Regarding paladins... I agree with Androlphas. In fact, I'd be more concerned with how all clerics are alike in spell selection (aside from domain spells) and amount of martial training. That's why I like variant classes.
Stuntman 12-04-04, 01:51 AM	The reason knockdown isn't taken into account for normal hits is that it would add complexity to combat. I don't think this added complexity is needed or would really improve the game enough to be worth the extra complexity. With shields, you can hide behind a tower shield. The tower shield can provide cover because it is so big. Other shields are too small to completely hide behind. Paladins are devoted to righteousness. They are not necessarily close to any deity. Clerics are really close to their deities, so their powers reflect their deities' domains. The paladin is like a druid. Druids can worship different deities, but their powers are about nature regardless of which deity they worship. Likewise, the paladin's powers are for righteousness and their powers reflect that regardless of which deity the paladin worships. I'm not familiar with the Church of the Silver Flame. The flame may not necessarily be a reference to fire.
Wil_Hyral 12-04-04, 03:04 AM	Under D&D rules, it doesn't say anything about how much your PCs have to pee after any given weight of beer. Am I to believe people don't urinate in D&D?
Ranger REG 12-04-04, 03:44 AM	Am I to believe people don't urinate in D&D? Won't that ruin your gamebooks? I hate to see what you put in your dice bag, if more than just dice. :eek:
Felonious Monk 12-04-04, 04:00 AM	I've had cats relieve themselves on my books, but players haven't. Yet. I'd like to see knockdown as a part of the attack mechanic, but can't see how it would be done easily. In Earthdawn, any hit past your character's wound threshold is a potential knockdown (and getting up is a full-round action!). Maybe something along the lines of the massive damage rules, although it would involve a lot more situations where a couple more rolls are required. And I'd like to see more customized pallies and clerics. It always annoys me that every god allows every single cleric every spell (unless it's diametrically opposed to the god's alignment). Again, though, I'm not a good rule-balancer, so I don't know how it would be done. And the rule in my game is, if you (the player) are using the bathroom when combat starts, your character is also relieving him/herself. I don't ever penalize the player beyond missing combat time, though. They get back to the table and their character rushes into combat, frantically trying to zip up...
Stuntman 12-05-04, 02:27 AM	And I'd like to see more customized pallies and clerics. It always annoys me that every god allows every single cleric every spell (unless it's diametrically opposed to the god's alignment). Again, though, I'm not a good rule-balancer, so I don't know how it would be done. That would be a nice to have, but would make things more complex. The 2E rules allowed for specialty priests of different deities to be very different. I really liked it, but it required a separate book to lists all of the specialty priests (Complete Priest's Handbook). All of the campaign settings also had a whole section on their specialty priests. They were really well done in 2E. I recall the priest of Boccob had to be a wizard up to 5th level and then become a priest. Very interesting and well done for all specialty priests. The reason I think the 3E clerics are the way they are is that it is simple to implement and understand. I would love for there to be specialty priests of each deity. What would end up happening is that the PH would be much larger. You would probably have to have a separate spell list for each specialty priest. I think that for the core game, such detail is not needed. Perhaps in the future, WotC will come up with a supplement for specialty priests (or clerics) of all of the deities. There may be a market for such an accessory. The only thing is that it would make the Complete Divine not so complete. :)
Seeker95 12-05-04, 10:00 AM	And I'd like to see more customized pallies and clerics. It always annoys me that every god allows every single cleric every spell (unless it's diametrically opposed to the god's alignment).You have them already. It's called Player Choice and DM Control. In my campaign, certain deities will not grant certain spells, largely driven by domain. Other deities restrict how spells may be used. For example: Clerics of Nerull cannot cast any curative spell -- ever. Clerics of Pelor cannot cast Divine Power. Clerics of Kord cannot heal themselves during battle. Paladins must be proficient in the favored weapon of their deity. From there, the DM can "customize" the clerics and paladins with Feat and Skill requirements. None of this requires making a new class. None of it requires much balance effort as long as you don't give new powers.