Post/Author/DateTime	Post
AzarKing 04-21-05, 08:10 AM	Does anyone here have any recommendation to resist or abolish racial tension or racism when dealing with others who have objections about reverting to previous rulings such as 3.0/2nd edition? :confused: :eek:
Andrew_980 04-21-05, 10:07 AM	you need to describe you're problem/question better and give us a full description of the situation
Mumakil 04-21-05, 10:08 AM	you need to describe you're problem/question better and give us a full description of the situation Agreed. I would like to respond, I just don't quite get what you are asking.
Nomad16 04-21-05, 10:36 AM	Anyone heard of anyone mention RL racism in the 3.0 books? read all the core books several times each and never ran across anything remotly rascist....
AzarKing 04-21-05, 12:56 PM	No...not racism in the BOOKS, i mean interaction between DMs and Players.
Sarella Starshine 04-21-05, 01:00 PM	i have a rule, if anyone makes any racial comment that is directed to either the DM or the players they are kicked out. end of story. i do not tolerate that kind of behavior. (that goes for any other comment ment to degrade someone based on race, gender, sexual orientation, etc).
AzarKing 04-21-05, 01:12 PM	Yes, thank you. That's what i meant, comments directed toward the DM in the event we played 2e/3e. Now, I personally play 3.5 because i stick to up-to-date material and well, I like it. In groups where i played with alternate rulesets, the "retrofitting" was often blamed on the DM's race. :rolleyes: Btw, please don't talk about anything other than racial matters in this thread, i kinda made it to focus on that aspect, rather than any gender or sexual orientation problems you have. :)
Sinon 04-21-05, 01:55 PM	So, if I have this correct: There was an issue about rules, which turned personal? This lead to the use of racial slurs, or at least derogatory comments that referenced race? And (sorry if I am being slow) we’re talking about real-life races here, e.g. black and white, not elf and dwarf?
AzarKing 04-21-05, 02:01 PM	That is correct. The issue wasn't so much valid as it was tacking on an undeniable characteristic about one person to the usage of older rule versions. :eek:
Arrowhen 04-21-05, 02:03 PM	That's what i meant, comments directed toward the DM in the event we played 2e/3e. Now, I personally play 3.5 because i stick to up-to-date material and well, I like it. In groups where i played with alternate rulesets, the "retrofitting" was often blamed on the DM's race. :rolleyes: Are you saying you've played with people who said, "Oh, you're using 2nd ed. rules becaouse you're (insert race)?" If so, that's the most ridiculously stupid thing I've heard in days. I'm afraid if you want any meaningful conversation to take place on this subject, you're going to have to tell us the whole story.
AmanitaEata 04-21-05, 02:04 PM	Does anyone here have any recommendation to resist or abolish racial tension or racism when dealing with others who have objections about reverting to previous rulings such as 3.0/2nd edition? :confused: :eek: What, you mean your black players want to use 2nd edition rulings and your white players are miffed about it? And if you really are talking about a real-life problems regarding racism ... ... ... do you really think a Dungeons and Dragons board is the best place to get advice? Because I'm thinking maybe not. Maybe I should just on board and post for marital advice.
AzarKing 04-21-05, 02:08 PM	Please don't be negative :( , i'm trying to get positive feedback on possible solutions to this problem. The groups that i play with, sometimes my party are people I don't know, or haven't met before. The people I know and play with regularily are understanding and not like Jeff or Alex that i sometimes am put with. The DMs i alternately play with are nice, but their selection of players aren't the best. The players sometimes do directly insult the DM, but mostly they whisper and tell me these things. I just want a solution to resolve this conflict so gameplay can resume smoothly.
Arrowhen 04-21-05, 02:13 PM	We can't help you resolve the problem if you won't tell us what the problem is. So far all we've got is that some players are nice and some aren't, you use 3.5 and some people don't, and there's some kind of racial... something. Tell the damn story and maybe we can help.
AzarKing 04-21-05, 02:18 PM	I'd do that, but i'm not sure to what extent i can divulge the details, i don't want to be kicked or banned.
Arrowhen 04-21-05, 02:22 PM	Click on the "Code of Conduct" link up near the top of the screen. As long as you're not violating any of those rules, you're not gonna get kicked or banned.
Sinon 04-21-05, 04:00 PM	Don't be offended. I can't tell what the heck you are saying half the time. You are continuing to be cryptic, or just vague, when several times people have asked you be clear. Don't worry about the wizos. They're smart guys. They know the difference between calling someone a bad name and describing an incident in which a bad word was used in an effort to get advice. Please try to write in complete sentences or at least complete thoughts. We can't help you if we can't understand you.
AzarKing 04-21-05, 04:11 PM	alright, here we go... I arrived at the first 3.0 gaming session, now I knew it was 3.0 along with a friend that came with me. The DM is chinese, and most of the other players are caucasian. DM: So, so to be clear, we're playing under 3.0 Are you guys alright with that? Alex: What kind of ***** up ***** rule is that? *silence ensues* Me: Why did you say that? DM: Look, i'm running 3.0 because i prefer these rules over 3.5, alright? If you have a problem with it, then leave. Alex: I'm so scared...please don't whip out your kung-fu on me at this point, it's clear we're going to have a problem with Alex and the DM So there is one example, the other one involves my other DM who is Italian
Arrowhen 04-21-05, 04:14 PM	It sounds like Alex is a jerk. Why do you want to play with him?
AzarKing 04-21-05, 04:19 PM	As i said, i like the DM, and Alex was one of the people i've never met before. I want to continue playing, but the DM is having trouble ignoring/putting up with/getting rid of this guy, and that is the advice i needed :)
Sinon 04-21-05, 04:20 PM	Racism is a virus. Stupidity is contagious. Alex is a carrier of both. He should be quarantined. ;) Get it. P.S. Thanks for clarifying all that.
Flushmaster 04-21-05, 04:22 PM	Why would several people not smack Alex upside the head? If I were in that group, I wouldn't stand for it. This guy is obviously either a complete moron or has a rather closed mind, both of which are quite detrimental to general group interaction and any form of good roleplaying. Were I the DM I'd have kicked him out of the group right then and there. If others disagreed with me I'd say he goes or you find a new DM, and I'd stick by the first decision I heard. If they want him, I don't want them. After the most recent (and decisively final) incident in my old group, I now have a very strict zero tolerance policy about any form of stupid bullsh*t, particularly from ***holes. It got too far out of control once and now I won't tolerate any amount of any form of it. I've never had racism come up, but it would definitely fall under that policy if it occurred. Deal with the problem now and deal with it completely or it will just get worse and worse. Been there, done that. Warning you now.
AzarKing 04-21-05, 04:24 PM	Yea, we know violence or confrontation isn't the solution here, but what is one method we can deal with Alex without resorting to fighting? He might just go for it, if it came to that :rolleyes:
weasel fierce 04-21-05, 04:27 PM	unless the two guys are close enough friends that they can use such language with each other, without causing offense, I';d kick the offending party from the game.
bomaz 04-21-05, 04:27 PM	kill his cha then you do it over and over until he leaves. kick him out of the group for these reasons: 1. he is ruining the fun of everyone 2. he is rasistic 3. a jerk that is good enaugh for me. he would be out of my group in notime the DM of course has final say who plays in his group. perhaps is you all are in a good mood give him a warning, one more incident and he is out.
AzarKing 04-21-05, 04:35 PM	Killing his character over and over sounds fun :D but might antagonize him. So far the ideas are. 1. Move to a new location for games 2. A show of force, rather than force itself or the rare... 3. Forgive him and ask him to change his ways, or at least keep quiet on his real life issues while playing D&D with us. It's a shame, because otherwise, from what i've heard he's a great player otherwise(i'm assuming most of his other DMs were caucasian as well)
Arrowhen 04-21-05, 04:53 PM	As i said, i like the DM, and Alex was one of the people i've never met before. I want to continue playing, but the DM is having trouble ignoring/putting up with/getting rid of this guy, and that is the advice i needed Your first course of action, the standard one for just about any problem you have with the game or with your fellow gamers, should be to talk to your DM. Does he know that you have a problem with the offending player? He might think he's the only one who does and is trying to put up with him for the good of the game. I had a problem player at the start of my current campaign--nothing like this guy, but a jerk nonetheless. I had my doubts about him from the very beginning and once we started playing I realized I couldn't stand him. But as no one else seemed to have a problem with him, I tried to put up with it. "It's a new campaign," I thought, "none of us know each other, everyone has their own style of play, things will get better, etc., etc." One day he didn't show up for the session and instead of starting without him they players and I just sat around BS-ing for a while, getting to know each other, talking about past gaming experiences and so forth. It soon came out that none of us could stand him--and we each though we were the only one. Needless to say, he was invited not to come back. (Actually, I wimped out and just told him the game had been cancelled. Some people just aren't worth arguing with.) With him gone the group, though small (just three players and myself), has become the best I've ever had the pleasure of gaming with.
AzarKing 04-21-05, 05:05 PM	If I might know, what did this guy do? And in that case, i see how a clear line of communication helped establish that neither side liked the player very much :)
Sarella Starshine 04-21-05, 05:14 PM	i would contact the DM outside of the game and find out if that guy's attitude is annoying to the DM as well. and then contact the rest of the group to see if they dont like that person. it is very obvious that he has zero respect for the DM (regardless of race) and is using the DM's race as an excuse to be a total jerk to the DM. good roleplayer or not, the party (especially the DM) does not have to tolerate that kind of behavior. if everyone hates him, kick him out.
Templetroll 04-21-05, 06:08 PM	Racism is a virus. Stupidity is contagious. Alex is a carrier of both. He should be quarantined. ;) Get it. P.S. Thanks for clarifying all that. Edit: It is still ok to talk trash to Dagos isn't it? Why did you use a derogatory term for an Italian in your edit? Didn't that seem racist to you? To be clear, it did seem racist to me, and in answer to your question - it is not okay to use RL derogatory terms. I would not tolerate it at my gaming table. I think it is okay to talk trash in character; my dwarf calls a half-orc character "pig-faced half-human" and he calls my dwarf "stumpy". The characters have risked their lives to save each other and my dwarf considers that half-orc like a brother. That works in character, in the game.
Templetroll 04-21-05, 06:24 PM	DM: Look, i'm running 3.0 because i prefer these rules over 3.5, alright? If you have a problem with it, then leave. Alex: I'm so scared...please don't whip out your kung-fu on me at this point, it's clear we're going to have a problem with Alex and the DM At that point the DM does not accept a character from that player. No one has the right to play in a game without being polite to all in the game. Where are you playing? If it is his house then the game should move. What adult is at the location that can exert influence or just tell this guy to leave or, at least, knock it off. I saw another comment that implied Alex was a good player - how can anyone know if he is such a jerk? If this is a public place, like a game store, then complain about the racist language and disruptive behavior of this player. Let them deal with him. If he threatens or touches any player/DM or their things then call the police and report it. If there are any other facts that have not been revealed, let us know please.
AzarKing 04-21-05, 06:35 PM	This takes place at the DM's house Well, from some of the other players, we heard Alex was very much so a different player in another group... I wish you could have been there, you could've understood the situation more
Flushmaster 04-21-05, 07:09 PM	This takes place at the DM's house Then the DM should kick him out. That simple.
bomaz 04-22-05, 04:17 AM	Then the DM should kick him out. That simple. agree
epifreak 04-22-05, 04:55 AM	Then the DM should kick him out. That simple. I dunno, a good, old-fashioned burning at the stake sounds like just the cure for Alex's racism.
Pisces All Media CEO 04-22-05, 09:16 AM	So... as always through the ages... Racism in D&D (genocide vs. orcs etc.) fine, accepted and encouraged Racism in RL not accepted. But... racism in the game IS accepted. So... A game that tolerates and indeed promotes racism in some ways expects its younger or more jellybrained players to somehow leave the crazy stupidity in the game, when, if they could distinguish that clearly between RL and a game they wouldn't identify so strongly with a rules iteration to commit racial slurring over it... Interesting stuff.
Sinon 04-22-05, 11:05 AM	re: Dagos Why did you use a derogatory term for an Italian in your edit? That was in poor taste. I apologize if I offended anyone. I myself am of Italian decent, and the only thing I find funnier than the Italian-American stereotype is someone, like one of my family members, personifying it and decrying it at the same moment. (We act like The Godfather and Goodfellahs make us all look like criminals, but at the same time own all of Copola's movies on DVD, that kind of crap.) When I make comments about Italians, it is meant to be self-deprecating. I know that obviously could not come through in a forum like this, and for any offense I caused, I sincerely apologize.
Templetroll 04-23-05, 12:22 AM	double post, sorry!
Templetroll 04-23-05, 12:24 AM	So... as always through the ages... Racism in D&D (genocide vs. orcs etc.) fine, accepted and encouraged Racism in RL not accepted. But... racism in the game IS accepted. So... A game that tolerates and indeed promotes racism in some ways expects its younger or more jellybrained players to somehow leave the crazy stupidity in the game, when, if they could distinguish that clearly between RL and a game they wouldn't identify so strongly with a rules iteration to commit racial slurring over it... Interesting stuff. It is fascinating. I know of a GM who set up some early scenarios to show that kobolds were not inherently evil but were an oppressed race. It was up to the players to take some action that would help the ease the oppression. I'm of the opinion that only outsiders can be inherently anything. Any race of the world would have predilictions due to culture, but not inherent evil. PLayers should have to deal with that, it adds lots of complexity to moral decisions. I didn't see that the guy had confusion about RL and game racism. He didn't like a decision the GM made and made a racist remark, it seems he has continued to do so. That is occurs at the person's house shows remarkable ignorance on that player's part and no one should need to put up with it. The guy is not a vampire, you invited him in once but you can stop him at the door the next game and tell him he is no longer welcome due to his comments. The other poster said his family uses some slurs about their ethnicity amongst themselves. I think that is odd and more likely to cause confusion in a kid than game racism about orcs. The other aspect, as he noted in his post just above, was that ethnicity does not come across online.
Nuntius128 04-23-05, 03:44 AM	That was in poor taste. I apologize if I offended anyone. I myself am of Italian decent, and the only thing I find funnier than the Italian-American stereotype is someone, like one of my family members, personifying it and decrying it at the same moment. (We act like The Godfather and Goodfellahs make us all look like criminals, but at the same time own all of Copola's movies on DVD, that kind of crap.) When I make comments about Italians, it is meant to be self-deprecating. I know that obviously could not come through in a forum like this, and for any offense I caused, I sincerely apologize. I dunno, I thought you were being ironic. I got a chuckle from your earlier comment, but probably cuz I'm part Irish, and we laugh at a lot of things we aren't supposed to. Also, what would the DM being Chinese and using 3.0 rules have anything to do with each other? And why was the guy even mad about playing 3.0? The guy doesn't need to be burned at the stake, he's obviously too (insert random derrogatory comment here) to speak coherently. He'll do himself in in time.
Flushmaster 04-23-05, 03:53 AM	The guy doesn't need to be burned at the stake, he's obviously too (insert random derrogatory comment here) to speak coherently. He'll do himself in in time. Unfortunately, racists aren't always that stupid (just ignorant). Not that I haven't met more than a few really dumb racists, because most racists I've met didn't come across as particularly intelligent regardless. I don't know this individual, so I can't say for sure, but even if he is a future Darwin Award recipient, there's no reason anybody should have him ruining their game until that happens. So kick him out and be done with him.
Syn316 04-29-05, 04:45 AM	Well I'm new to the boards but this struck home.... I play with mostly university students from other countries, Games been going on forever. Players come and go, but one thing remains the same...Respect. Sometimes when a new player joins and I (DM) does something they do not agree with, the person resorts to their natvie tongue to insult me to their friend (whom the came with). I Respect my players, they respect me. Ussually what happens is the "listener" explains what his friend just said. I give em 2 strikes. 1'st you just didn't realize the closeness of the group. I DM, you play, You do not like it leave. We expalin that again. 2'nd time, please don't let the door hit you on the way out. We are all there to have a good time regardless of race/religion. And I respect my players more for sticking up for me (the only white in the group) If you or the others have a problem with a player, it's either time to ask how others feel about the remarks and act on it. Or find a new group. Call me a Canuck, fine. Call me a Hoser, you better know I like "bob and doug mackenzie". But call me a cracker...nuff said.