Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DemonDragonJ 11-26-04, 08:30 AM	Is Gary Gygax, the one who created D&D, still alive, and if so, what is he doing now? Surely, he is working for WOTC to help them design new D&D products, and if not, why not?
wizard_thoarin 11-26-04, 09:29 AM	I haven't heard anything to the contrary lately, but I believe Gary Gygax is alive and well. Relations have improved between Gary Gygax and the company since TSR sold out to WotC. Gary for a while was writing a monthly article for Dragon Magazine before Paizo took it over and he was consulting on several projects. I haven't heard what he is doing since Paizo or the Dragon Magazine editors decide to scrap Garys "Up on a Soap Box" article which I liked a lot. Since WotC took over from TSR, I'm sure Gary has been litigated a lot less. If your curious you should be able to do some research online about past litigations between TSR and Gary. Gary has in the past released several Role Playing games although most were short lived due to TSR litigation against Gary although one of them had a lot of its Ideas rolled into the AD&D 2nd edition line from what I understand. Gary has his own website and was promoting an RPG he was creating on it. I'm not sure what the state of that website is though since I haven't been there in quite some time. It was an interesting site to explore though with lots of neat graphics and the website was navigated like walking through a castle with clicking on doors or other graphic hotspots to go to other pages. Sorry, I don't remember the address of his site though. Other then that, I don't know what to tell you. Maybe he is being consulted on that new D&D movie that supposedly got green lighted. If he is consulting on that, I hope they come up with a better story, better dialog, and better actors. Some of the CGI needs to be done better as well. Good Luck on finding more information, Wizard Thoarin
Seeker95 11-26-04, 10:16 AM	He is alive. He is semi-well. His health has been on the down side lately. Brief Bio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Gygax)
Demon Lightfoot 11-26-04, 11:11 AM	To the best of my knowledge, The Master is, despite some health problems in the last year (heart attack, stroke), still alive and reasonably well. He has occasionally posted over at enworld.org, answering questions posed by posters there. As I understand things, he isn't currently working for WotC, nor does he care for the 3e+ iterations of D&D, preferring the earlier incarnations of the game that he had an active hand in or his current game system. Speak of the Devil... (http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=104817)
Zherog 11-26-04, 12:02 PM	I haven't heard what he is doing since Paizo or the Dragon Magazine editors decide to scrap Garys "Up on a Soap Box" article which I liked a lot. For the record - Paizo didn't scrap the "Up On A Soapbox" article. Gary scrapped it, due to lack of time on his part.
Stardrake 11-26-04, 12:12 PM	According to "Scale Mail" in DRAGON #326, EGG told them he no longer has time to write a monthly column (it's harder than you think, and he's not young...). So that, at least, is the official word--they say they still want stuff from him, and are in discussions. As for the other creator of D&D, Dave Arneson-- I saw him at the D&D Game Day festivities at the Source in the Twin Cities. He just had BLACKMOOR, the original fantasy campaign, redone for 3.5 by Goodman Games. He's living in Florida now (like so many Minnesotans) and seems to be enjoying himself.
Ranger REG 11-27-04, 02:44 AM	With all due respect ... What stuff do we need from Gygax? For now, I'm giving props to Dave Arneson. Love his Blackmoor Campaign Book for 3.5e. Maybe it's his turn to be "Up on the Soap Box," since he is a co-creator of D&D.
caeruleus 11-27-04, 10:43 AM	I hear Gygax frequents the message boards at http://www.dragonsfoot.org
Ourph the Mingol 11-27-04, 03:31 PM	With all due respect ... What stuff do we need from Gygax? Castle Greyha....I mean, Castle Zagyg. :) And after WAY too long, we're finally getting it. Yeah! http://www.trolllord.com/zagyg.htm BTW - Despite the preface, that still sounded very disrespectful. :pbbbtt:
Ranger REG 11-30-04, 03:52 AM	Meh. I will make no apology. I have gotten over my "Gygax is Gawd" phase for 3 years now. Personally, I find it disrespectful that no one else tried to make an effort to give Dave Arneson the "D&D co-creator" props he deserve. Instead, he was given a footnote treatment. :weep: FYI, Gygax, Arneson, and Larry Elmore (known for his Snarfquest and Dragonlance arts in the 80's) have had quite the health scares in the past two years. Here's hoping they stick around longer.
Escef 11-30-04, 08:10 AM	FYI, Gygax, Arneson, and Larry Elmore (known for his Snarfquest and Dragonlance arts in the 80's) have had quite the health scares in the past two years. Here's hoping they stick around longer. Indeed. We all must die sometime. But it will be a sad day when any of those three leave us.
Demon Lightfoot 11-30-04, 03:37 PM	Meh. I will make no apology. I have gotten over my "Gygax is Gawd" phase for 3 years now. My first "Gygax is Gawd phase" got over about 20 years ago; my second "Gygax is Gawd phase" took place from 15-10 years ago. I'm currently on my third "Gygax is Gawd phase" (5 years and counting!) :w00t: Personally, I find it disrespectful that no one else tried to make an effort to give Dave Arneson the "D&D co-creator" props he deserve. Instead, he was given a footnote treatment. :weep: My wife's a big Blackmoor fan, if it's any consolation. :cookie: FYI, Gygax, Arneson, and Larry Elmore (known for his Snarfquest and Dragonlance arts in the 80's) have had quite the health scares in the past two years. Here's hoping they stick around longer. Here's hoping! :thumbsup:
crazysamaritan 11-30-04, 10:40 PM	Meh. I will make no apology. I have gotten over my "Gygax is Gawd" phase for 3 years now. I'm in my "Keith Baker is.... Demonic" phase, atm... ;)
blackprinceofmuncie 12-01-04, 06:40 PM	Meh. I will make no apology. I have gotten over my "Gygax is Gawd" phase for 3 years now. Right. Anyone who's still interested in Gary's contributions to gaming is a mindless fanboy. Is that the point you're trying to make? Oh well, obviously just another hapless victim of the William's era brainwash brigade. :rolleyes:
D+1 12-02-04, 10:37 AM	Right. Anyone who's still interested in Gary's contributions to gaming is a mindless fanboy. Is that the point you're trying to make? Oh well, obviously just another hapless victim of the William's era brainwash brigade. :rolleyes:Chill. Gary deserves credit but there is NO doubt that for a great many years he was getting almost sole credit. Gygax and Arneson have reached their own legal and personal degrees of acceptance of the distribution of credit. Myself, I think Arneson accepts the lesser credit of the two of them for the games creation (when in fact he deserves the greater credit) simply because he's not IN it for the credit. IMO he's TOO forgiving of people not knowing or caring about his contributions. In any case, those who reflexively give first and foremost credit to Gygax without even mentioning Arneson either don't know enough about the games origins or don't care. Those who DO know see how terribly slighted Arneson was for years and tend to fault Gygax for studiously failing for years to give Arneson his due credit. Since Gygax is vocally disinterested in the current game rules he really doesn't have much left to offer players of current editions except reminiscences of how it was in Ye Olden Dayes. He's a fine, old gent, I respect the contributions he's made and appreciate the YEARS of good times he's given me as a result, he'll be missed when he's gone [may he live long and well] - but people DO need to place his talents and contributions in their appropriate place.
Seeker95 12-02-04, 11:12 AM	Right. Anyone who's still interested in Gary's contributions to gaming is a mindless fanboy. Is that the point you're trying to make? Oh well, obviously just another hapless victim of the William's era brainwash brigade. :rolleyes:Funny. I read the same post you did, and didn't come anywhere close to that conclusion. Must just be the defensive posturing of a Gygax sycophant. :P
rogueattorney 12-02-04, 11:17 AM	Since Gygax is vocally disinterested in the current game rules he really doesn't have much left to offer players of current editions except reminiscences of how it was in Ye Olden Dayes. Well, yeah, that and this recently released boxed d20 adventure 'Hall of Many Planes' from Troll Lords: http://www.trolllord.com/homp.htm ...and his Necropolis adventure from Necromancer Games ...and his Slayers Guides to Dragons and Undead from Mongoose ...and his Hermit adventure from Necromancer ...and the first three volumes of the Gygaxian Fanstasy Worlds series from Troll Lords (the later volumes are written by someone else but edited by Gygax) Add that to his non-d20 contributions to Troll Lords' Castles & Crusades and his own Lejendary Adventures rpg, and I think you could argue that G.G. remains one of the most active, if not THE most active game designer in the RPG community. Oh, and big time congrats to Dave Arneson and his recently released d20 Blackmoor book. I think people are starting to realize the contributions he's made to the rpg community now. R.A.
chrome_gnome 12-02-04, 01:04 PM	I read some things about him on the Hackmaster boards since it is the only way to get the 1ed ruleset intact, for the most part, with books still being published. He liked the older gritty stuff and thought the web of conflicting rules weeded out the "weak willed" :) As of last year he still had a regular gaming group who played, though I forget exactly what they were playing. It might have been Legendary Adventures but I'm not certain. I still use my Hackmaster books for all the great misc stuff they have in them. Things like complete random dungeon mapping, NPC traits, things you might see, smell or hear in dungeons and along wilderness trails. The older stuff had alot more misc fluff tables so that you could figure out anything with a random roll. I love those old tables just for brainstorming purposes of when I need something on the fly during the game and have DMs block. And yes Dave got the short end of the stick considering he made the rules up in the first place and Gygax and he adapted them. I wish there had been more written about them in the 30th anniversary book. Perhaps they should write an autobiography on the life and times of a D&D creator.
Seeker95 12-02-04, 02:03 PM	Perhaps they should write an autobiography on the life and times of a D&D creator.They'd both suffer strokes during the fight over who gets listed first in the author entry!
Sulaco 12-02-04, 02:49 PM	They'd both suffer strokes during the fight over who gets listed first in the author entry! Apparently Gygax has already had one.
blackprinceofmuncie 12-02-04, 03:43 PM	In any case, those who reflexively give first and foremost credit to Gygax without even mentioning Arneson either don't know enough about the games origins or don't care. Those who DO know see how terribly slighted Arneson was for years and tend to fault Gygax for studiously failing for years to give Arneson his due credit. His name was right there on the rulebooks as a co-author. I fail to see how Gary failed to give Dave Arneson his "due credit". :bored: Dave Arneson collaborated with Gary Gygax in developing a set of rules for fantasy roleplaying that they both used to run private games. That's where his contribution ends. Dave Arneson didn't put in the work necessary to get the rules into a publishable format. Dave Arneson didn't invest any time in trying to get gaming companies to publish those rules. When nobody was buying, Dave Arneson didn't use his own money (at great financial risk to himself) to publish the game on his own. Dave Arneson didn't glue boxes in his living room so that the first batch of manuscripts could go out to customers. To put it bluntly, if it were up to Dave Arneson, you and I would never have seen (let alone played) the game called Dungeons & Dragons. So I'd say it's the people who insist that Dave Arneson somehow missed out on the credit he deserved who don't know enough about the origins of the game. Since Gygax is vocally disinterested in the current game rules he really doesn't have much left to offer players of current editions except reminiscences of how it was in Ye Olden Dayes. He's a fine, old gent, I respect the contributions he's made and appreciate the YEARS of good times he's given me as a result, he'll be missed when he's gone [may he live long and well] - but people DO need to place his talents and contributions in their appropriate place. It's difficult to "place his talents and contributions in their appropriate place" when there is a small but vocal minority of gamers who like nothing better than to spread disinformation about just what those talents and contributions are. Like, for example, insisting that Gary Gygax has nothing to contribute to people who play the current edition of the game when his list of D20 titles is actually quite extensive (compared to Dave Arneson's one. :P ). BTW - feel free to call me a Gygax-fanboy. I know that's what the Lorraine William's brainwash brigade has programmed many gamers to do anytime Gary's name is mentioned without disdain. I don't blame you. You can't help it. ( :looloo: )
blackprinceofmuncie 12-02-04, 03:55 PM	Funny. I read the same post you did, and didn't come anywhere close to that conclusion. Must just be the defensive posturing of a Gygax sycophant. :P Accusing anyone who has an interest in Gary Gygax's current contributions to the gaming hobby of having a "Gygax is Gawd" complex [ :rolleyes: ] seems pretty clear to me. Are you sure the men in white coats from TSR didn't get to you? Feeling the need to comment anytime someone mentions Gary's name without the appropriate amount of venom or disdain is a sure sign of "the treatment". I know a good deprogrammer if you're interested. The shock treatments don't hurt nearly as much as you'd expect them to. PM me if you're interested. :pbbbtt:
Seeker95 12-02-04, 04:14 PM	Accusing anyone who has an interest in Gary Gygax's current contributions to the gaming hobby of having a "Gygax is Gawd" complex [ :rolleyes: ] seems pretty clear to me. Then you're suffering from a severe case of glaucoma. REG didn't say that. He said he got over his "Gyagx is Gawd" phase. He had one. He doesn't anymore. Now, Gygax is a designer. He is the co-creator of D&D. In the same post your got all panties-in-a-bunch over, REG went on to say he hopes Gygax, Arneson and Elmore stick around for a long while, noting the poor health each of them has suffered recently. So relax. Whether you are a Gygax-sycophant or not has nothing to do with what REG wrote.
blackprinceofmuncie 12-02-04, 04:20 PM	Then you're suffering from a severe case of glaucoma. REG didn't say that. He said he got over his "Gyagx is Gawd" phase. He had one. He doesn't anymore. What you fail to mention is that he said that in response to a post where someone was pointing out they were interested in Gary's current Castle Zagyg project. The obvious implication is that no one could genuinely be interested in Gary's current work and that anyone who IS interested has a "Gygax is Gawd" complex. Like I said, it seems pretty clear to me. Really, the deprogramming is DIRT cheap. You should consider it. :D
Seeker95 12-02-04, 04:27 PM	Like I said, it seems pretty clear to me.Like I said. Glaucoma. The first step in resolving a problem is admitting you have a problem. (I grew up in Muncie. It used to be a decent place.)
Mythmere 12-02-04, 04:36 PM	I think all the people who cast venom at Gygax are a little skewed. He wrote the game. Dude, end of story. People who say he has nothing to contribute now - first, that's wrong (see lists of titles above), and second it's irrelevant to my respect for the guy, which is based on his past achievements. George Washington hasn't done squat for me lately, but I respect him for his past achievements.
WizO_Catoblepas 12-02-04, 07:17 PM	*Throw water on thread* Ok, let's keep the posts on the subject matter of the thread, not other guests. Otherwise, you're going to get an Official Warn. Fair warning.
GreyLord 12-02-04, 08:02 PM	Whoever said that Gygax frequents Dragonsfoot.org is right. His views concerning third edition are not exactly what one could call generous or even nice. Some might even call it outright dislike...and perhaps he has said something like that...but the only way to find out is to go over to Dragonsfoot.org and find his posts for yourself...as long as they didn't wipe the history of the boards there recently. I think you might find it enlightening what the originator has expressed about 3rd edition. He seems very alive, and as they have said, is still roleplaying. He seems to have a strong preference to the Original Edition of D&D currently. He is not working for WotC for several reasons. First off, for his own personal reasons. Second...for more of his personal reasons. Thirdly, I don't think WotC wants, or even would like what he would have to say or his input...at least current input. Fourth...WotC is putting out fine products of their own which carry the "D&D" trademark, and paying yet another person might not be in line with what is good for their business currently. However, to get to the heart of his own personal reasons, you would be better off asking Gygax yourself, since he is pretty darn accessible, and his views may have changed recently unbeknownst to me, or perhaps his views were misinterpreted by some. He has contributed to the Current edition of D&D however, by creating AD&D in the first place. Of course I don't know if you are still reading this, as I haven't seen another response from you since it began, but as I said, since Gygax seems alive and well and kicking, the best source to ask these questions, if he'll answer them, is the man himself. You should have an idea of how to find him. If that's doesn't work, you could also try going to his website and finding contact information there.
Seeker95 12-02-04, 09:11 PM	I think all the people who cast venom at Gygax are a little skewed.(Hoping this can be answered within the "water on thread" contex) Who in the thread actually "cast venom at Gygax"? Some folks noted that Arneson has generally received less credit than Gary. Some folks have acknolwedged that there are people who seem to worship the air Gary walks on. And some people have commented that they don't view Gygax as a god. But nobody on the thread has said anything bad about Gary.
rogueattorney 12-03-04, 01:59 PM	But nobody on the thread has said anything bad about Gary. You're right. The closest anyone has said to being bad about G.G. was D+1, when he said: ...He really doesn't have much left to offer players of current editions except reminiscences of how it was in Ye Olden Dayes. Which isn't so much bad, as misinformed. Anyone who wants to see what Gary Gygax has been up to recently should pick up any of the number of products I listed on my first post. He continues to design products for d20, Castles & Crusades, and Lejendary Adventures. There is also an ongoing Q&A with him on ENWorld. R.A.
skathros 12-03-04, 05:40 PM	Dave Arneson collaborated with Gary Gygax in developing a set of rules for fantasy roleplaying that they both used to run private games. That's where his contribution ends. Dave Arneson didn't put in the work necessary to get the rules into a publishable format. Dave Arneson didn't invest any time in trying to get gaming companies to publish those rules. When nobody was buying, Dave Arneson didn't use his own money (at great financial risk to himself) to publish the game on his own. Dave Arneson didn't glue boxes in his living room so that the first batch of manuscripts could go out to customers. Well said, blackprinceofmuncie...well said indeed!!! I must admit that i do find it refreashing to see someone start a thread like this interested in the game's past and it's creator (okay, co-creator...for the martyr Arnson who's ever slighted). But, as always, you get something like this...With all due respect ... What stuff do we need from Gygax? Well, you dont really need stuff from Gygax...but he's so good you'll want stuff from Gygax! And, in all honesty, who knows D&D better than it's creator (sorry...co-creator)?Some folks noted that Arneson has generally received less credit than Gary. there is a reason for this! Some folks have acknolwedged that there are people who seem to worship the air Gary walks on. If you saw EGG walk on air, wouldnt you be tempted to worship him too?And some people have commented that they don't view Gygax as a god. I think it's pretty safe to say that until proven otherwise, Gary isnt a god. But he did create an awsome game!
bjjrick 12-03-04, 06:36 PM	Hi guys for information Gary you can go over to http://www.lejendary.com He regularly posts over there. He had a mild stroke on April 1st, 04. Mr. Gygax does not work for WoTC. He has his own gaming system that he works on called Lejendary Adventure.
Edymnion 12-03-04, 09:11 PM	You know, I'll be happy to come out and say this. I don't like Gary Gygax. But let me qualify that broad statement. I have, and always will have, a great deal of respect for the man, and for Dave Arneson. They founded what is, without a doubt in my mind, the single greatest game ever made in the history of mankind. That I've played... However, from the articles I've read from Gary, about Gary, and all the rest, I must say that I would personally NEVER want to game with the man, much less be in a game he is running. He comes across as being very "Me vs. Them" in the way he runs his games. From everything I've read from him, the man practically invented the "Get up on the soapbox and rant about how stupid my players are for trying something like that!" Like I said, I'm eternally thankful to Gary, and to Dave, for what they did. However, it really was just a natural evolution from the early wargaming, and someone else would likely have come up with it if they hadn't. And, again, with all due respect, I haven't really liked any of the other game systems Gary has come up with since then. I really don't want to call the man a one shot wonder, as many others have liked the things he has done since he made D&D, and I would love to get to shake the man's hand, but I'm not going to set him up on an untouchable pedistal for it. He's just human, and he pretty much lived the American dream. He combined a little skill, some good timing, and a lot of luck, and he changed the world in the process. He hasn't really been able to do it again though.
D+1 12-04-04, 01:14 AM	So I'd say it's the people who insist that Dave Arneson somehow missed out on the credit he deserved who don't know enough about the origins of the game.You misunderstand. The failing was a consistent error of omission. Whenever someone wrote an article calling Gary the inventor or creator of D&D it was at best disingenuous not to correct them as it implies he was the SOLE creator. It's still unclear to me EXACTLY who should get credit for what parts of "inventing" D&D. Yes, yes, Gygax did the great majority of... what, expanding it into a game, developing the game? But Arneson is seldom if ever mentioned regarding the games origins and I think that IS unfair to Arneson. Like, for example, insisting that Gary Gygax has nothing to contribute to people who play the current edition of the game when his list of D20 titles is actually quite extensive (compared to Dave Arneson's one.Listen closely - I fully acknowledge his contributions to the game right up to present and laud his prodigious list of writing credits. His list of past achievements however means little to players of 3.5 from this point forward if he doesn't LIKE the current version of the game and thus - I assume - isn't going to contribute any further material for it. So tell me again what he has to offer if he's admitting he has no interest in it? BTW - feel free to call me a Gygax-fanboy. I know that's what the Lorraine William's brainwash brigade has programmed many gamers to do anytime Gary's name is mentioned without disdain. I don't blame you. You can't help it.Dammit I LIKE Gygax! I haven't been interested in anything he's written for years but that doesn't mean I don't respect him. The effect of Williams' despicable activities upon YOU has apparantly been to convince you that he is beyond question. He's no less fallible than Arneson is. Gygax may deserve the vast majority of credit but don't you think Arneson deserves just a little more than only his name on the flyleaf? Like maybe being mentioned ALONGSIDE Gygax as "inventor" or "creator" of the game, not just in the rulebooks but in magazine articles, public addresses, etc?
D+1 12-04-04, 01:39 AM	Well, you dont really need stuff from Gygax...but he's so good you'll want stuff from Gygax! And, in all honesty, who knows D&D better than it's creator (sorry...co-creator)?Can't quite let this slide without comment. How good Gygax is, was, or will be is UTTERLY subjective. And though you likely didn't mean it the way it reads, your second statement has, I should hope, been resoundingly discredited. It is suggestive of the rather silly idea that Gygax alone knows best how to play the game - not YOU. And if you aren't playing his way then you really aren't playing D&D. People have enjoyed flamewars for years on that notion. The great resurgence in popularity of the game with the 3.0 rules, and yet Gary's subsequent expression of disdain for those rules, is rather demonstrable proof that there are a great many people who do in fact know D&D better than its "creator". Or at least what THEY want D&D to be, and enjoy most about D&D. D&D has clearly been taken in directions that Gygax did NOT want to take it, and definitely does not like - and D&D as it currently stands has been quite successful as a result. That said, I should like to again mention that my current campaign, while defintely NOT using an older version of the rules*, is nonetheless specifically geared to evoke an "old school" tone reminiscent of the older versions. A tone that Gary is MOST responsible for. But the current rules are otherwise superior in almost every way to what Gary and TSR ever came up with - IMO. * I have NO use for the older D&D rules except as regards that tone.
blackprinceofmuncie 12-04-04, 03:51 AM	You know, I'll be happy to come out and say this. I don't like Gary Gygax. <snip> However, from the articles I've read from Gary, about Gary, and all the rest, I must say that I would personally NEVER want to game with the man, much less be in a game he is running. He comes across as being very "Me vs. Them" in the way he runs his games. From everything I've read from him, the man practically invented the "Get up on the soapbox and rant about how stupid my players are for trying something like that!" Isn't it a little odd to make such authoritative statements about someone's personality whom you've never met and never actually gamed with? People who have actually had the pleasure of meeting or playing a game with Gary (i.e. people who actually have knowledge and experiences which are relevant to the decision of whether or not they like the guy) usually describe a much different person than the one you do. Most reasonable people actually interact with someone before deciding they dislike them.
Ranger REG 12-04-04, 04:06 AM	Well, you dont really need stuff from Gygax...but he's so good you'll want stuff from Gygax! And, in all honesty, who knows D&D better than it's creator (sorry...co-creator)? Meh. He probably knows the ones he created, but not the current edition. If anything, he is just as well-versed as Hypersmurf. The only thing I owned of Gary Gygax is the Book of Extraordinary Names (usable in any RPG campaigns or selecting baby names) but it is in his name only. The author of said book is actually Malcolm Bower. Let me make myself clear. I respect Gygax but I don't idolize him. It's the same with the late Gene Roddenberry. I give him props for creating the Star Trek franchise, but without the writing talents of Harlan Ellison, Gene L. Coon, and DC Fontana (among others), TOS would never have gained early cult status (despite a brief 3-season run) that eventually rose as one of the pop culture icons.
blackprinceofmuncie 12-04-04, 04:26 AM	You misunderstand. The failing was a consistent error of omission. Whenever someone wrote an article calling Gary the inventor or creator of D&D it was at best disingenuous not to correct them as it implies he was the SOLE creator. <snip> Gygax may deserve the vast majority of credit but don't you think Arneson deserves just a little more than only his name on the flyleaf? Like maybe being mentioned ALONGSIDE Gygax as "inventor" or "creator" of the game, not just in the rulebooks but in magazine articles, public addresses, etc? OK. Let's just lay this to rest once and for all. Please follow the links to see that Dave Arneson actually DID get exactly as much credit as he deserved. http://www.acaeum.com/DDIndexes/SetPages/SetScans/Box1st.html http://www.acaeum.com/DDIndexes/SetPages/SetScans/Book1v1.html http://www.acaeum.com/DDIndexes/SetPages/SetScans/Book2.html http://www.acaeum.com/DDIndexes/SetPages/SetScans/Book3.html http://www.acaeum.com/DDIndexes/SetPages/SetScans/Supp2.html Every single one of those books lists Dave Arneson on the title page as co-author or as sole-author (in the case of supplement II - Blackmoor). The box itself lists Dave Arneson as co-author. It's right there for every consumer to see. There was no attempt on the part of Gary Gygax, TSR or any other entity officially associated with D&D to deny Dave Arneson his proper credit as co-creator of D&D...EVER! (And if you're upset that Dave's name comes second...well...all I can say to that is....actually, no, I can't say that here. :P ) As for why Dave wasn't mentioned in articles about the success of D&D as a co-creator a lot of times, all I can say is that Gary got the most attention because Gary was the one who was there printing, supporting and promoting the product. In the media world, the person who's talking to the media, who's actively involved in the "story", is going to get the attention. If you're introducing someone who's giving a talk about the commercial success of the game they helped create, you're going to focus on the contributions of the guy who's ACTUALLY SPEAKING, not on his co-creator who nobody really knows and who didn't show up at your shindig to give a talk. I think my first post was entirely relevant and straight to the point. There's a huge difference between having an idea and turning that idea into a successful, popular product. Someone whose contribution ends with the creation of the product is going to get a heck of a lot less attention than the person who puts a huge amount of effort into promoting and supporting the product. IMO, deservedly so. Can't quite let this slide without comment. How good Gygax is, was, or will be is UTTERLY subjective. And though you likely didn't mean it the way it reads, your second statement has, I should hope, been resoundingly discredited. It is suggestive of the rather silly idea that Gygax alone knows best how to play the game - not YOU. And if you aren't playing his way then you really aren't playing D&D. Sorry, I can't let this slide without comment. First, play D&D however the heck you want to. No one really cares. On the other hand, when I buy a toaster, I want an operations manual written by the guy who designed the thing, not one I wrote myself by looking inside with a flashlight and making guesses about how it works. I've played D&D any number of ways for the past 24 years, experimenting with different styles, different ways to approach the game. I can honestly say that my experience leads me to believe that what Gary has to say about how to approach and play the game is extremely valuable for getting the most fun out of your gaming experience. I am absolutely certain that it's not THE formula for everyone, but dismissing Gary's expertise and knowledge on the subject is, IMO, an act of complete insanity (most probably brought on by intense brainwashing ;) )
blackprinceofmuncie 12-04-04, 04:33 AM	Let me make myself clear. I respect Gygax but I don't idolize him. It's the same with the late Gene Roddenberry. I give him props for creating the Star Trek franchise, but without the writing talents of Harlan Ellison, Gene L. Coon, and DC Fontana (among others), TOS would never have gained early cult status (despite a brief 3-season run) that eventually rose as one of the pop culture icons. That's an obviously poor analogy. Gary Gygax was the MOST prolific writer for TSR during the time he was with the company, and the products he authored for TSR unquestionably far outsold the stuff produced by any other single author (probably any 10 others put together). If anything, the other authors at TSR benefited from Gary's success, rather than the other way around. It's hard to believe you respect someone you seem so adamantly determined to minimize.
Ranger REG 12-04-04, 04:47 AM	It's hard to believe you respect someone you seem so adamantly determined to minimize. It's your statement, not mine. OBTW, don't ever mention the Lady of Pain whose initials are "L.W." around me. She will never have my respect. Period.
blackprinceofmuncie 12-04-04, 05:13 AM	It's your statement, not mine. I'm sorry, I don't know what that means... :confused: I just took your analogy about Gene Roddenberry and boiled it down into one word (i.e. "minimize").
nyysjan 12-04-04, 06:29 AM	OBTW, don't ever mention the Lady of Pain whose initials are "L.W." around me. She will never have my respect. Period. :thinks: :ahem: :headexplo :banghead: :surrender :help: lost me there
Demon Lightfoot 12-04-04, 01:34 PM	:thinks: :ahem: :headexplo :banghead: :surrender :help: lost me there Lorraine Williams. Bad bad bad woman, who, by all accounts, looks upon persons such as us (gamers) as her social inferiors. She's the evil spawn of the Buck Rogers-owning Dille family who screwed Gary out of TSR and then proceeded to run the company into the ground in an effort to show idiot gamers how to operate a business. Often referred to by cutesey names as "The Lady of Pain" (referring to an all-powerful entity from Planescape who flays people she encounters alive...if you're lucky) or "She-who-must-not-be-named" (either a reference to the Old Ones the Cthulhu Mytos or H. Rider Haggard's She).
nyysjan 12-04-04, 01:55 PM	yeah know of her slipped of my mind for a bit happily she doesn't loom that large on scandinavia :D
Akrasia 12-06-04, 02:08 AM	.... As of last year he still had a regular gaming group who played, though I forget exactly what they were playing. It might have been Legendary Adventures but I'm not certain. ... He was running/playtesting the first part of the "Castle Zagyg" series ("Yrggsburgh" IIRC), using the upcoming "Castles and Crusades" system from TLG. Right now I think he's playtesting the Castle levels themselves, using OD&D, and plans to resume playing LA at some point in the near future. I am looking forward to reading -- and hopefully someday playing -- through "Castle Zagyg" (originally Castle Greyhawk). It will be great to finally get the original D&D 'mega-dungeon' published. I am also very much looking foward to the full rules for "Castles and Crusades" -- it should capture the 'old school' feel of OD&D/OAD&D, but in a flexible 'rules lite' package. It should also appeal to players looking for a 'faster', and less 'crunchy', system than 3E. (Btw, "Castles and Crusades" was the name of the Lake Geneva wargaming society, out of which "Chainmail", and thus D&D, emerged...)