D&D's power level >9000 [Archive] - Wizards Community

D&D's power level >9000 [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
JimProfit
03-30-08, 10:04 PM And you might say "what 9000?!" but hear me out.

I was discussing D&D with a friend and we were comparing it to Bleach (cause a bleach d20 would be awesome) when we discoverd that the abilities done in bleach were really not all that impressive when comparison to Dungeons&Dragons.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/4/40/TosenAnimeEp44.jpg/230px-TosenAnimeEp44.jpg
Kaname Tōsen, captain of squad 9, you'd immagine his bankai, something that supposedly marks the difference between captains and normal shinigami, is an all powerful spell, right?

It's nothing more then deeper darkness+silence. Both relatively easy to get. Infact, Kaname is acheivable by a fifth level cleric!

If we allow a homebrew meta-magic feat that allows him to cast two spells at the same time (possibly by expending spell-slots or more spellpoints if you use that varaint) The bankai has been copied exactly... And sense it's a taxing endevure, a costly metamagic feat is not all that exccagerative..

If such high level spirits are simply fifth level, just immagine the kindof things that go down in D&D. Maybe it was our fault for trying to compare anime to D&D, but I've heard many of times people argue D&D could never potray dbz cause the power gap would be too enormous.

I don't think so, not from what I've seen... Exceedingly long combat cause of HP? Sounds like dbz... brutal attacks that don't cost the caster barely anything? Sounds like dbz... magic relics that someone would have to be out of their mind to create? Sounds like dbz... cheap villains who regenerate? Sounds like dbz... I could go on and on.
Jaxgaret
03-30-08, 10:50 PM D&D: Calibrating Your Expectations (http://www.thealexandrian.net/creations/misc/d&d-calibrating.html).

It's not a perfect article, but it makes a lot of good points about precisely what you are talking about; a 5th-10th level D&D 3e character is wickedly powerful.
Vacerious
03-31-08, 01:12 AM First off, watch out for Rules 1 and 2, OP. You know what rules I'm talking about.

Second, you forget that Kaname Tosen can actually use his senses within the zone of his own Bankai, something a 5th level cleric can't do. The cleric can just create the zone, not use it without the same penalties that his target(s) would be incurring.

Thirdly, the meta-magic feat you're looking for is Quicken spell. It's not technically "at the same time," but it's close enough that an enemy is probably not going to know the difference (or at least non-caster enemies.)

But overall, 5th level characters are something you can shake a stick at. There's a reason that you have to be 6th level to get the Leadership feat. When people hear that a loved one/neighbor/friend/etc. has taken up a life of adventuring, most don't count on said person to come back in one piece, so reaching 5th level is quite the amazing feat to the average person. Adventuring is an extremely dangerous occupation. On the flip side, adventuring pays off way more than almost any other occupation in the entirety of D&D Cosmology (with the Lady of Pain's position probably being the top in terms of paychecks.)

I guess the short side of what I'm trying to say in the paragraph above is there's a reason bards and minstrels sing about adventurer's exploits. That essay above isn't far off.
Far_Traveler
03-31-08, 03:15 AM In addition, the Bankai also dulls senses of touch (blindsense/sight), smell, and pretty much ANY sense, magical or otherwise, unless you are touching the blade (and can thus feel the pain when your cut)

Something of that magnitude is an epic spell, especially considering the radius.
M-bark
03-31-08, 04:57 AM That article Jaxgaret linked to is a good one.

Anyways, Far_Traveler, there is a spell, fifth or seventh level or so, that blocks all of a dragon's senses. Sure, it's only against dragons, but it blocks them all. The dragon can't sense you at all. Kaname could have something like that but only against humanoids. Besides, sense of touch =/= blindsense. Do all humans in DnD have blindsense? I think not. Do all humans in DnD have sense of touch? I think so.

Also, keep in mind that Kenpachi has no sixth sense or any magical senses whatsoever.
Alpha_Moose
03-31-08, 02:00 PM I've said this on another thread:
It's all moot anyways. Every character's power level exceeds 9000 at level 5 (see the xp chart).
Silverthumb
03-31-08, 06:07 PM First off, watch out for Rules 1 and 2, OP. You know what rules I'm talking about.

34 is the only one I give a crap about.

Also, we're not even going to start about the spell levels in Harry Potter.
Jaxgaret
03-31-08, 07:06 PM 34 is the only one I give a crap about.

Yay Rule 34!

I've seen rule 34 on mac and cheese. For real.
Far_Traveler
04-01-08, 09:57 AM That article Jaxgaret linked to is a good one.

Anyways, Far_Traveler, there is a spell, fifth or seventh level or so, that blocks all of a dragon's senses. Sure, it's only against dragons, but it blocks them all. The dragon can't sense you at all. Kaname could have something like that but only against humanoids. Besides, sense of touch =/= blindsense. Do all humans in DnD have blindsense? I think not. Do all humans in DnD have sense of touch? I think so.

Also, keep in mind that Kenpachi has no sixth sense or any magical senses whatsoever.

Even though Kenpachi specifically doesn't, he mentions that it still blocks it. In addition, You fail to realize the radius of the effect, something along the lines of 500ft. And it probably (read: Definitely) works on hollows too, and ghosts, and probably anyone who can't outright destroy the effect with a display of power (I haven't seen many episodes beyond the Bound arc and haven't read the manga, so that is just conjecture) The most important part of it is it's infallibility, and it's size.
Xiuhcoatl
04-01-08, 10:17 AM I could see something along the range of a 8th to 9th level spell.

Spherical area equal to 20ft/caster level, negates sense of smell, sight, hearing, and any other 'sense' that can be used to perceive unless you are the caster. No save. Lasts 1 round/level.

Then just give his Bankai a huge caster level.
Artector
04-01-08, 10:41 AM The other problem you have is that you are looking at 1 character. Remember, Kenpachi didn't have that much trouble with Tousen.

And while his bankai might not be that high a level (maybe something like 7th or an 8th level effect in total) you do need to account for all his abilities, like Flash-Step, Kidou, Shikai, and the ability to negate being blind.

The most accurate representations of Bleach characters I've seen is on the Psionics board, and those don't quite get all of the abilities.
Awesome_Dude
04-01-08, 01:27 PM Yay Rule 34!

I've seen rule 34 on mac and cheese. For real.
How about Rosie O'Donnell?

There are exceptions to every rule.
Nathreet
04-01-08, 08:07 PM 9000? There's no way that could be right.
calronmoonflower
04-01-08, 09:11 PM 9000? There's no way that could be right.

That's what Nappa thought about Goku. :D

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
JimProfit 03-30-08, 10:04 PM	And you might say "what 9000?!" but hear me out. I was discussing D&D with a friend and we were comparing it to Bleach (cause a bleach d20 would be awesome) when we discoverd that the abilities done in bleach were really not all that impressive when comparison to Dungeons&Dragons. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/4/40/TosenAnimeEp44.jpg/230px-TosenAnimeEp44.jpg Kaname Tōsen, captain of squad 9, you'd immagine his bankai, something that supposedly marks the difference between captains and normal shinigami, is an all powerful spell, right? It's nothing more then deeper darkness+silence. Both relatively easy to get. Infact, Kaname is acheivable by a fifth level cleric! If we allow a homebrew meta-magic feat that allows him to cast two spells at the same time (possibly by expending spell-slots or more spellpoints if you use that varaint) The bankai has been copied exactly... And sense it's a taxing endevure, a costly metamagic feat is not all that exccagerative.. If such high level spirits are simply fifth level, just immagine the kindof things that go down in D&D. Maybe it was our fault for trying to compare anime to D&D, but I've heard many of times people argue D&D could never potray dbz cause the power gap would be too enormous. I don't think so, not from what I've seen... Exceedingly long combat cause of HP? Sounds like dbz... brutal attacks that don't cost the caster barely anything? Sounds like dbz... magic relics that someone would have to be out of their mind to create? Sounds like dbz... cheap villains who regenerate? Sounds like dbz... I could go on and on.
Jaxgaret 03-30-08, 10:50 PM	D&D: Calibrating Your Expectations (http://www.thealexandrian.net/creations/misc/d&d-calibrating.html). It's not a perfect article, but it makes a lot of good points about precisely what you are talking about; a 5th-10th level D&D 3e character is wickedly powerful.
Vacerious 03-31-08, 01:12 AM	First off, watch out for Rules 1 and 2, OP. You know what rules I'm talking about. Second, you forget that Kaname Tosen can actually use his senses within the zone of his own Bankai, something a 5th level cleric can't do. The cleric can just create the zone, not use it without the same penalties that his target(s) would be incurring. Thirdly, the meta-magic feat you're looking for is Quicken spell. It's not technically "at the same time," but it's close enough that an enemy is probably not going to know the difference (or at least non-caster enemies.) But overall, 5th level characters are something you can shake a stick at. There's a reason that you have to be 6th level to get the Leadership feat. When people hear that a loved one/neighbor/friend/etc. has taken up a life of adventuring, most don't count on said person to come back in one piece, so reaching 5th level is quite the amazing feat to the average person. Adventuring is an extremely dangerous occupation. On the flip side, adventuring pays off way more than almost any other occupation in the entirety of D&D Cosmology (with the Lady of Pain's position probably being the top in terms of paychecks.) I guess the short side of what I'm trying to say in the paragraph above is there's a reason bards and minstrels sing about adventurer's exploits. That essay above isn't far off.
Far_Traveler 03-31-08, 03:15 AM	In addition, the Bankai also dulls senses of touch (blindsense/sight), smell, and pretty much ANY sense, magical or otherwise, unless you are touching the blade (and can thus feel the pain when your cut) Something of that magnitude is an epic spell, especially considering the radius.
M-bark 03-31-08, 04:57 AM	That article Jaxgaret linked to is a good one. Anyways, Far_Traveler, there is a spell, fifth or seventh level or so, that blocks all of a dragon's senses. Sure, it's only against dragons, but it blocks them all. The dragon can't sense you at all. Kaname could have something like that but only against humanoids. Besides, sense of touch =/= blindsense. Do all humans in DnD have blindsense? I think not. Do all humans in DnD have sense of touch? I think so. Also, keep in mind that Kenpachi has no sixth sense or any magical senses whatsoever.
Alpha_Moose 03-31-08, 02:00 PM	I've said this on another thread: It's all moot anyways. Every character's power level exceeds 9000 at level 5 (see the xp chart).
Silverthumb 03-31-08, 06:07 PM	First off, watch out for Rules 1 and 2, OP. You know what rules I'm talking about. 34 is the only one I give a crap about. Also, we're not even going to start about the spell levels in Harry Potter.
Jaxgaret 03-31-08, 07:06 PM	34 is the only one I give a crap about. Yay Rule 34! I've seen rule 34 on mac and cheese. For real.
Far_Traveler 04-01-08, 09:57 AM	That article Jaxgaret linked to is a good one. Anyways, Far_Traveler, there is a spell, fifth or seventh level or so, that blocks all of a dragon's senses. Sure, it's only against dragons, but it blocks them all. The dragon can't sense you at all. Kaname could have something like that but only against humanoids. Besides, sense of touch =/= blindsense. Do all humans in DnD have blindsense? I think not. Do all humans in DnD have sense of touch? I think so. Also, keep in mind that Kenpachi has no sixth sense or any magical senses whatsoever. Even though Kenpachi specifically doesn't, he mentions that it still blocks it. In addition, You fail to realize the radius of the effect, something along the lines of 500ft. And it probably (read: Definitely) works on hollows too, and ghosts, and probably anyone who can't outright destroy the effect with a display of power (I haven't seen many episodes beyond the Bound arc and haven't read the manga, so that is just conjecture) The most important part of it is it's infallibility, and it's size.
Xiuhcoatl 04-01-08, 10:17 AM	I could see something along the range of a 8th to 9th level spell. Spherical area equal to 20ft/caster level, negates sense of smell, sight, hearing, and any other 'sense' that can be used to perceive unless you are the caster. No save. Lasts 1 round/level. Then just give his Bankai a huge caster level.
Artector 04-01-08, 10:41 AM	The other problem you have is that you are looking at 1 character. Remember, Kenpachi didn't have that much trouble with Tousen. And while his bankai might not be that high a level (maybe something like 7th or an 8th level effect in total) you do need to account for all his abilities, like Flash-Step, Kidou, Shikai, and the ability to negate being blind. The most accurate representations of Bleach characters I've seen is on the Psionics board, and those don't quite get all of the abilities.
Awesome_Dude 04-01-08, 01:27 PM	Yay Rule 34! I've seen rule 34 on mac and cheese. For real. How about Rosie O'Donnell? There are exceptions to every rule.
Nathreet 04-01-08, 08:07 PM	9000? There's no way that could be right.
calronmoonflower 04-01-08, 09:11 PM	9000? There's no way that could be right. That's what Nappa thought about Goku. :D