Post/Author/DateTime	Post
kaeso 11-11-05, 12:21 PM	A little while ago, I was sitting in the hall with my friends, and one of the people sitting there (not a friend, more like a jerk w/out friends who follows me around) said "Hey Shane, MMoRPGs are better than D&D!" I turned around and said "What?" because what he said was completely random (though I should have expected it, he is a jerk). He proceeded to do his "What? I didn't say anything" routine, until finally we were all in a conversation (more like an argument) about whether D&D or MMoRPG's were better. I said of course D&D is better, you can be and do anything in D&D, and you actually use your imagination in D&D rather than paying someone to do it for you, which you do when you pay a monthly fee for a game like World of Warcraft or City of Villains. One of my friends said "No way, that's like saying Golden Eye is better than the first person shooter games of today." I said that the relationship between D&D and MMoRPGs is more complicated than that, and that it is easier to think of D&D players in terms of "people who like to read books" and MMoRPGs players in terms of "people who would rather watch the movie." What is the general concensus? I know that people here will probably like D&D more, since this is a D&D forum, but what about friends and other people you know? I think obviously think that D&D is infinitely better.
CzarGarrett 11-11-05, 12:25 PM	PnP > MMORPG Always. Less contraints, the rules are more like guidelines if necessary, and there's really nothing you can't do. However, due to time contraints, I tend to play more MMORPGs over PnP. But God knows I wish I didn't.
BeyondFated 11-11-05, 12:56 PM	Each has their merits, and neither should be compared to the other. It's moronic. It's like saying, "Ceaser Salads are better than Big Macs". While both are similar in that they are food, they almost nothing alike. Likewise, DnD and MMOs are both games, but thats where the similaraties end.
Ravenseye 11-11-05, 01:09 PM	To say one is better than another makes certain assumptions about the player that vary too widely from person to person. For instance a player who works 60 hours a week, has a family he spends additional time with which he would choose to do above any D&D session, and doesn't have any appropriate time available to play D&D might easily say MMORPG's are better for him. They give him an immersive game setting, where he can go play for an hour or two, belong to a guild of many people, and always be able to pop in at 1 am and actually meet up with a 'friend' and play. That doesn't make MMORPG's better than D&D though. The same could be said for a reverse anecdote. The main thing is that they are very different experiences, providing different rewards, and requiring different investments of time and money. Personally if money, time, and people to play with are no object, I'd prefer to play D&D in person. I like interacting with people over the more anonymous feel of an MMORPG. Yet I like many MMORPG's and have played them for years. Theyr'e just a very different animal. Anyone who would even make such a blanket statement shouldn't even be argued with, they should just be ignored.
Wharin 11-11-05, 02:07 PM	I personally see where the other guy that the OP is talking about. MMO's have a lot going for them. And though people say that they are completely different, outside that they are both games, they do fufill the same addiction. One is simply more filling, while one is more like (ever)crack. 1.)MMORPG's are colourful and flashy, and often give a solid representation of the world around your character. 2.)Also, though its not truely yours and its not even really property, in a way, it still your property. Though abstract, it still holds more value than someone's character sheet. It represents absolute time spent working on this character, that can't be faked. It can't be "cheated" the way a Pen and Paper character sheet can be and, judging by these boards, often is. Though illegally, you could sell it for actual cash to someone else who can still use the character and (provided you and him arent caught) the game will still honour the character. Having such a "property" is attractive. You cannot do that with Pen and Paper DnD. I don't think any reasonable DM would just simply allow you to import a X Level character to a brand-new campaign, it wouldnt matter if it was your character that you play earlier and leveled up the hard way, one you created on the fly, or one that a friend made for you to play. 3.) Its also always available for play. Any time of the day, there are garunteed to be at least a few hundred people to play with, and the environment is always willing to throw a monster or two your way. With Pen and Paper, the best you can hope for is a regular schedule of once or twice a week. BUT, that said the counter arguements are 1.) Often the Imagination can be a much more vivid camera then any computer screen can give. (Though to the counter counter point: with ever improving technology, MMO's are getting darned close) Also, its probably a good thing for people to use their imagination then to simply have it layed out for them. Much the same as reading and watching TV. 2.) The more and more people put worth in their characters money value, the less fun the game is, thus making whatever point #2 was for MMO's, its just as much as a con. That said, by the time that people play the game simply to make money, its already because they are hooked. 3.) Though PnP can't promise a game 24/7, it does promote some degree of social interaction; something that can be faked/ignored with MMO's. and finally 4.) Whatever Roleplaying aspirations most people have going into a MMO, they are garunteed to fade to black before the week is out. That said, I have heard that some MMO's have put an invested effort into keeping Role Playing in at least a few of their Shards/Worlds and go as far as penalising players on that world who refuse to Roleplay. To those who play on them, or still make an effort to actually roleplay on MMO I tip my cap.
Buckler o' Swashes 11-11-05, 02:08 PM	I like Movies more than Books and DnD more than MMoRPG's. Movies show me another persons imagination whilst DnD is my own - so i really don't read fantasy literature anymore... i read LoTR and a few others just for inspiration for my games.
Habronicus 11-11-05, 02:24 PM	I can't see how a comparison between the two is even possible. They're apples and oranges, completely. As much as MMOGs "try" to be the new generation of RolePlaying, they just fail where it matters most - social interaction, and dynamism. In fact, unless someone builds a computer which can simulate a human brain, then MMOGs will never achieve that. That said, what really annoys me is not the "which is better" argument (that one is subjective and to each his own). What bothers me are the people who actually think that Final Fantasy, World of Warcraft, or Morrowind are some of the best examples of the genre. That REALLY pushes all my wrong buttons... :rant: :censored: :tantrum: :banghead: :headexplo
Wharin 11-11-05, 04:11 PM	Well the thing with MMO's is that there is no end. This is both a bane and a blessing. With a traditional story RPG (traditional FF, BG I & II, actual Pen and Paper RPG's) there is a beginning, an end, and the middle can be as epic and legendary as the game designers want it to be. After all, its just you (and in the case of a PnP game, about 4 other people) and the story (and the DM that gives the story). In the game you can be the biggest fish in the smallest pond and noone (aside from some NPC's) is going to be sour about it. If the game takes you were you become Gods, so be it, its a story and the story does end. Which means you start all over again, either with the same game (trying to explore other avenues to go down) or you start with a completely different game and move on. With an MMO, however, the game cannot end. And you are no longer the big fish in a small pond. Infact that pond turns out to be friggen huge. And in the spirit of fairness, noone can truely be epic and legendary. Not really. Sure you might be the first person on your server to make it to level 50, but as soon as someone else does it, your legendariness and epicness drops down to half of what it was. And thats what i what actually drew me into EverCrack. I liked the idea of being a fish in a huge pond. I liked the idea of community of 1000's to interact with. But over time, realizing that i would never be a fish of any importance, and none of the steps that i will take is in any way truely original, and has already been done ad nausium. And after a while, certain actions that could be glossed over with a simple sentence start taking actual real life time, and it grows tedious. All in all, i was an EverCrack addict for a year and a half. Since then i was moved onto a much less addicting drug, RuneScape, and have been EverCrack-free for 3 years.
Azual 11-11-05, 08:52 PM	the next time your friend tells you that he's too busy to play because he has WoW or such remember this. The next time he spends nine hours killing the same creature over and over and over again just to gaine experience, remember this. Dungeons and Dragons brings a magic to the game that just cant exists between two computers. Mmo's are addicting, that is true, because they are enthralling and intensely interesting, however, they lack a social aspect that forms a core center to the game. Plus, D&D isnt $15 a month.
yeknom 11-11-05, 09:05 PM	so i really don't read fantasy literature anymore... . :eek: :eek: :weep: :weep:
kaeso 11-11-05, 10:30 PM	I can't see how a comparison between the two is even possible. They're apples and oranges, completely. Ya, I was talking to my friends earlier and we decided they are a lot like that, but people usually know which they like more. Dungeons and Dragons brings a magic to the game that just cant exists between two computers. Mmo's are addicting, that is true, because they are enthralling and intensely interesting, however, they lack a social aspect that forms a core center to the game. That is probably the most compelling argument yet.
guru7892 11-11-05, 10:40 PM	umm, you dont pass out from playing D&D for several days staight.. so its better because it safer... thus MMORPG is better because is riskey and will probably kill you.. like driving and smoking... but they are making a D&D MMORPG, that only losely follows D&D rules, so we should see some hospitalizations from a blending of the genere. i think if D&D had russian roulette involved, it would be much cooler: ~russian roulette:the epic campaign~ DM: "ok stan, the illithid barbarian got a critcal hit on you" Stan:"well what are the ch-" BLAM! DM: "stan repainted the walls with himself" *reloads magnum" DM: Dan, the tiefling pirate, got 7 ctitcal hits... DAN: "oh ****"
guru7892 11-11-05, 10:43 PM	Plus, D&D isnt $15 a month. its $30... lol acually an increasing # of MMORPG are starting to abolish the monthly fee, and they are amking you buy stuff ingame instead. personally id like to see them do that with level caps.. but allas... its moslty limited to ingame adds and items and money.... it was in this month's issue of CGW...
weasel fierce 11-12-05, 01:34 AM	Good luck asking one of your everquest buddies to pass the cheetos.
Ranger REG 11-12-05, 01:43 AM	A little while ago, I was sitting in the hall with my friends, and one of the people sitting there (not a friend, more like a jerk w/out friends who follows me around) said "Hey Shane, MMoRPGs are better than D&D!" I turned around and said "What?" because what he said was completely random (though I should have expected it, he is a jerk). He proceeded to do his "What? I didn't say anything" routine, until finally we were all in a conversation (more like an argument) about whether D&D or MMoRPG's were better. I said of course D&D is better, you can be and do anything in D&D, and you actually use your imagination in D&D rather than paying someone to do it for you, which you do when you pay a monthly fee for a game like World of Warcraft or City of Villains. One of my friends said "No way, that's like saying Golden Eye is better than the first person shooter games of today." I said that the relationship between D&D and MMoRPGs is more complicated than that, and that it is easier to think of D&D players in terms of "people who like to read books" and MMoRPGs players in terms of "people who would rather watch the movie." What is the general concensus? I know that people here will probably like D&D more, since this is a D&D forum, but what about friends and other people you know? I think obviously think that D&D is infinitely better. A friend of mine wanted to boast that EverQuest is better than D&D. I responded, "Yeah, especially when you don't have to take a shower and put on your undies to meet people," then I take two steps back to find fresh air away from him. "So, do you want to physically leave the apartment and hang with us buddies at the local nightclub this time, or are you going SIMming again?" :smirk: