Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Hrt 06-16-07, 03:55 AM	I meant dragons. I feel stupid for asking, as I'm sure everyone already knows this. Say I make an Old Black Dragon Druid 11. Do I add epic base attack and saves, or the standard base attack and saves of an 11th level druid?
Escef 06-16-07, 07:17 AM	Epic is for characters and creatures woth 21+ racial HD or class levels, not a combination that brings it to 21+. So, an ogre (4 HD) with 17 levels of barbarian does not gain any Epic benefits.
Nom 06-16-07, 09:07 AM	Eh? What? DMG pg 206: "regardless of the method used to attain 21st level", "Epic characters - those character's whose character level is 21st or higher". DMG pg 209: "The epic rules in this section also work for monsters with character levels, using the creature's effective character level (ECL) instead of just its class levels." The only except is creatures whose racial HD alone raise them above 20th level: they calculate BAB and BSB for their racial HD (only) normally (DMG pg 207, sidebar). Thus, the old black dragon has 25 dragon HD with normal bonuses, but with a limit of 4 iterative attacks (DMG pg 207, sidebar). He then has 11 druid levels which use the Epic progressions for BAB and BSB but are otherwise normal druid levels. Being Epic, he is eligible for Epic feats as part of his normal feat selection.
Escef 06-16-07, 02:13 PM	DMG pg 209: "The epic rules in this section also work for monsters with character levels, using the creature's effective character level (ECL) instead of just its class levels." Ok, see, I missed that part, I was going off the SRD. Mea Culpa, ignore my previous post.
Hrt 06-17-07, 04:21 PM	Ah, I see now. Thanks!