Post/Author/DateTime	Post
SterlingHeart PaganPummel 02-07-08, 09:55 PM	So does a player get sneak attack damage if the base weapon and str damage fail to beat a creature's DR? Say a flanking rogue who whacks a vrock with a +1 short sword does 7 damage vs the vrocks DR 10/good...does he get the bonus D6's to this, or does the DR stop initial normal weapon damage and thus prevent the extra precision damage? I called it this way, saying unless base damage exceeded the DR, the extra damage was lost...makes sense that if you can't even really pierce its hide, hitting it in a vital spot would be pointless....
andinel 02-07-08, 10:45 PM	The DR is only counted after ALL damage is rolled, including precision damage. So, yes, sneak attack is still counted.
StevenO 02-07-08, 10:49 PM	The bonus damage from sneak attack is the same as the base damage that delievers it. If you SA a Vrock that SA damage is added to your weapon to determine if it gets through or not. The SA damage is included when overcoming DR. If your Rogue hits a DR10/good vrock for 7 damage pre-SA you will still deal damage if the SA dice take your total damage to 11 or higher although it still gets reduced by 10 points. Now if you are hitting it with a weapon like spell (acid orb) then the sneak attack damage would be the same type (acid in this case) and would ignore most DRs although it would now be subject to the same Resistance as the spell.
Thraxis 02-07-08, 11:23 PM	Damage reduction, as defined in the DMG, is not so much the blade "not penetrating", but the creture "shrugging off" or "instantly healing" the damage. Natural armor is what determines if it actually cut into the creature or not, not damage reduction, so all forms of precision damage still affect it normally. Imagine a pin. If you get stuck with a pin, it won't do damage, only be painful (citing a commoner dying from 2 hp damage and then bloodloss), the pin has to be "lower than a human damage reduction". Now, if you were stabbed by a pin in the juggular vein... That could still kill you, even if the "pin itself" did no damage. see what I mean?
SterlingHeart PaganPummel 02-08-08, 01:04 AM	Damage reduction, as defined in the DMG, is not so much the blade "not penetrating", but the creture "shrugging off" or "instantly healing" the damage. I don't know...apart from instant healing, it also lists the iron golem as an example of a tough hide ignoring damage. Also, special attacks like a monk's stunning fist (was an example in DMG on page 292) and similar abilities don't take affect unless the damage exceeds the DR. Note that the Stunning Fist feat lists this as a strike to a vital spot ("You know how to strike opponents in vulnerable areas." pretty much the concept of the sneak attack), so unless I see it written otherwise, I think it's pretty safe to assume a weapon still needs to exceed its normal damage past the DR before a sneak attack bonus would work...
Decoy_Lockbox 02-08-08, 02:42 AM	Logically, you would be right. But nothing in the actual rules supports your ruling. Sneak attack dice add to any dmg inflicted while the sneak attack conditions are met.
Neutronium_Dragon 02-08-08, 06:28 AM	> Also, special attacks like a monk's stunning fist (was an example in DMG on > page 292) and similar abilities That is referring to abilities which cause a secondary effect in a addition to the damage dealt. Sneak attack increases the damage dealt; rules-wise it's distinct from the secondary effects which the DMG is talking about there.