Damage Reduction Precedence [Archive] - Wizards Community

Damage Reduction Precedence [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
mgratton
01-15-08, 07:55 AM What is the order of precedence for damage reduction? By that I mean if a lycanthrope has DR/silver, a magic weapon hurts it, right? What if it's DR/Cold Iron, does silver hurt hit? What about cold iron against DR/Silver? If somebody has DR/Adamantite, does magic weapons hurt it?

mikeg
runestar
01-15-08, 08:09 AM In 3.5, only weapons made of that material can overcome said dr. This means that dr/cold iron will apply even against a +100 weapon (for all the good it does, but still...to prove my point...:P )

There is no order of priority.
Vermifaux
01-15-08, 08:11 AM Damage Reduction

A creature with this special quality ignores damage from most weapons and natural attacks. Wounds heal immediately, or the weapon bounces off harmlessly (in either case, the opponent knows the attack was ineffective). The creature takes normal damage from energy attacks (even nonmagical ones), spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities.

Some monsters are vulnerable to certain materials, such as alchemical silver, adamantine, or cold iron. Attacks from weapons that are not made of the correct material have their damage reduced, even if the weapon has an enhancement bonus.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm

There is no order of precedence. Either a weapon has the quality necessary to bypass DR or it doesn't.
mgratton
01-15-08, 08:38 AM So, if I'm not a spellcaster, I should carry a silver weapon for lycanthropes, a cold iron weapon for critters with that DR, and a magic weapon if I can get one? Wow, we've been playing that one wrong!

Thanks,
mikeg
Sarella Starshine
01-15-08, 08:53 AM You can also enhance weapons that are made out of special materials ;). Also, do not forget a slashing, a piercing, and a bludgeoning weapon, as those DR's are not overcome by mere enhancements as well ;).

To make your weaponry a bit easier to handle, I suggest geting one of each weapon out of a special material, each with a different damage type (such as a pircing silver, a bludgeoning cold iron, and a slashing adamantine), and then get each weapon at least a +1 enhancement (or carry a few vials of oil of magic weapon) to help with those that have a special material AND magic as their DR (I would also further enhance the silver and the cold iron weapon to be holy if you fight a lot of pesky devil/demons as they need silver/cold iron AND good to overcome thier DR).

That should limit your golf bag down to about 3 really good weapons, which, is about a good warrior should be able to have anyways (main (slashing), back-up (bludgeoning), and ranged (piercing)).
castlemike
01-15-08, 09:24 AM Consider talking to your DM about adding the +1 special DR magical weapon enhancement to your game or work out a homeruled precedence.
Edymnion
01-15-08, 01:05 PM So, if I'm not a spellcaster, I should carry a silver weapon for lycanthropes, a cold iron weapon for critters with that DR, and a magic weapon if I can get one? Wow, we've been playing that one wrong!Yes, 3.5 introduce the "golf bag of swords" concept, where in order to bypass all DR, you need to carry about a dozen different weapons.
Escef
01-15-08, 03:23 PM Yes, 3.5 introduce the "golf bag of swords" concept...

As often as I've heard it on these boards, in actual play the golf bag never appears. Probably because DMs aren't in the habit of just handing things out. The whole point of 3.5 DR is that since PCs won't have the golf bag it means that they won't be able to get by everything's DR, and thus DR means something and is not all or nothing.
CryoSilver
01-15-08, 03:33 PM I like 3.5 DR much better than 3.0 DR. In 3.0, DR was an "all-or-nothing" deal, with emphasis on nothing. IT also stripped away the flavor ofsome kinds of DR, with lycanthropes coming quickly to mind. Every myth says you need silver to hurt a werewofl, but with a simple Magic Weapon spell, all that flavor got flushed down the crapper.

Now, even your epic hacking sword o' doom still has a harder time cleaving down the werewolf, because it isn't made of silver. It makes DR useful.
Legdiwena
01-15-08, 03:58 PM You could also get the metalline special property to emulate different materials for DR.
VulcanStormwrath
01-15-08, 04:59 PM You can also enhance weapons that are made out of special materials ;). Also, do not forget a slashing, a piercing, and a bludgeoning weapon, as those DR's are not overcome by mere enhancements as well ;).

To make your weaponry a bit easier to handle, I suggest geting one of each weapon out of a special material, each with a different damage type (such as a pircing silver, a bludgeoning cold iron, and a slashing adamantine), and then get each weapon at least a +1 enhancement (or carry a few vials of oil of magic weapon) to help with those that have a special material AND magic as their DR (I would also further enhance the silver and the cold iron weapon to be holy if you fight a lot of pesky devil/demons as they need silver/cold iron AND good to overcome thier DR).

That should limit your golf bag down to about 3 really good weapons, which, is about a good warrior should be able to have anyways (main (slashing), back-up (bludgeoning), and ranged (piercing)).

Or a Morphing Weapon and a Metalline Weapon.
Bloodsoul
01-15-08, 06:03 PM Not sure about Cold Iron or Adamantine, but I recall Alchemical Silver could be applied to weapons for a limited duration using an oil.. come to think of it, I should buy some.
LivingShadow
01-15-08, 06:08 PM The item you are refering to is called Quicksilver.

There is a weapon crystal that allows you to treat your weapon as adamantine for overcoming DR, there's also a glove which allows you to treat your weapon as silver.

Combine the crystal and the gloves with a cold iron weapon and you can bypass all three.
Edymnion
01-15-08, 09:14 PM As often as I've heard it on these boards, in actual play the golf bag never appears.In your personal experience. I have indeed seen the golf bag happen. Heck, I have played a character that hauled around the golf bag of weapons (rogue that used daggers, and had a dagger made out of just about everything by the time it was all said and done).
The whole point of 3.5 DR is that since PCs won't have the golf bag it means that they won't be able to get by everything's DR, and thus DR means something and is not all or nothing.It was still poorly done, IMO.
Especially when you stop and consider that the only logical reason to change the entire core DR system in mid stream was to invalidate the 3.0 monster books so that you would have to get the 3.5 reprints. The material system could easily have been saved for 4e, but it wasn't.

Heck, one of the biggest stumbling blocks in converting 3.0 material to 3.5 is DR.
Salla
01-16-08, 02:49 AM So, if I'm not a spellcaster, I should carry a silver weapon for lycanthropes, a cold iron weapon for critters with that DR, and a magic weapon if I can get one? Wow, we've been playing that one wrong!

Thanks,
mikeg

Not really. The highest pre-epic DR in the game is 15. 15 points of damage is barely a speedbump to any decently built character. You don't need a 'golf bag of weapons'; you just need to not build your character as a gimp.
Escef
01-16-08, 06:33 AM In your personal experience. I have indeed seen the golf bag happen. Heck, I have played a character that hauled around the golf bag of weapons (rogue that used daggers, and had a dagger made out of just about everything by the time it was all said and done).

Honestly, I think that's pretty nifty for a rogue type. Besides, they're daggers. Whoop-de-dee. Every character I make carries at least three daggers anyway (one in each boot, and one at the small of the back).

It was still poorly done, IMO.

As opposed to 3.0, when having a magical weapon bypassed all material related DR? Honestly, now that I think about it, I hope in 4e they do away with all the variable pluses on weapons and just have it be "magical". The characters that enter combat the most don't need them, elemental damage properties (flaming, frost, shock, etc.) give you more bang per GP anyway.
runestar
01-16-08, 06:51 AM 3.0 dr was all or nothing. You either could bypass it and it did nothing, or you were screwed, as most, if not all your damage was prevented (iron golem had like what? 50/+3???).

3.5 dr was more meaningful, I suppose, in that it is harder to bypass, and so usually accounted for something, but you were not overly screwed if you lacked access to the proper weapon.

Though it is possible to overcome all forms of dr in the game using just 1 weapon.

A morphing, sure-striking, metalline weapon lets you overcome any physical, alignment and/or metal-based dr in the game sans dr/-.:)
Edymnion
01-16-08, 12:22 PM As opposed to 3.0, when having a magical weapon bypassed all material related DR?Yup, back when a magic sword meant something besides "a little bit more damage", and you had a good reason to get a +5 weapon. When the mightiest swords in the land could cleave through all that stood in their way. Now a days, even basic DR on low level critters can stop a +5 weapon cold.
Rustmonster
01-16-08, 08:47 PM Yup, back when a magic sword meant something besides "a little bit more damage", and you had a good reason to get a +5 weapon. When the mightiest swords in the land could cleave through all that stood in their way. Now a days, even basic DR on low level critters can stop a +5 weapon cold.

By "basic DR" of "low level critters", I'm assuming you mean stuff like the 5 DR skeletons get, right?

The +5 cancels the DR outright, and then you do your normal damage, which is probably alot more than 5 if you already had a +5 weapon.

So, losing the +5 you got to your attack that did far more than that anyway is "stopped cold"? Not really. The skeleton is still very very destroyed.
Cartigan
01-16-08, 09:53 PM Yup, back when a magic sword meant something besides "a little bit more damage", and you had a good reason to get a +5 weapon. When the mightiest swords in the land could cleave through all that stood in their way. Now a days, even basic DR on low level critters can stop a +5 weapon cold.

I'm afraid I have to say :rolleyes:
Also, you don't even need a magic weapon to hurt a skeleton. You just need a stick. Skeletons have DR/Bludgeoning. Wow, you pick up a club and surprise, no DR! Your complaint is silly.
pigknight
01-16-08, 11:18 PM There's an enchantment in Tome of Magic that bypasses ALL DR.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
mgratton 01-15-08, 07:55 AM	What is the order of precedence for damage reduction? By that I mean if a lycanthrope has DR/silver, a magic weapon hurts it, right? What if it's DR/Cold Iron, does silver hurt hit? What about cold iron against DR/Silver? If somebody has DR/Adamantite, does magic weapons hurt it? mikeg
runestar 01-15-08, 08:09 AM	In 3.5, only weapons made of that material can overcome said dr. This means that dr/cold iron will apply even against a +100 weapon (for all the good it does, but still...to prove my point...:P ) There is no order of priority.
Vermifaux 01-15-08, 08:11 AM	Damage Reduction A creature with this special quality ignores damage from most weapons and natural attacks. Wounds heal immediately, or the weapon bounces off harmlessly (in either case, the opponent knows the attack was ineffective). The creature takes normal damage from energy attacks (even nonmagical ones), spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities. Some monsters are vulnerable to certain materials, such as alchemical silver, adamantine, or cold iron. Attacks from weapons that are not made of the correct material have their damage reduced, even if the weapon has an enhancement bonus. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm There is no order of precedence. Either a weapon has the quality necessary to bypass DR or it doesn't.
mgratton 01-15-08, 08:38 AM	So, if I'm not a spellcaster, I should carry a silver weapon for lycanthropes, a cold iron weapon for critters with that DR, and a magic weapon if I can get one? Wow, we've been playing that one wrong! Thanks, mikeg
Sarella Starshine 01-15-08, 08:53 AM	You can also enhance weapons that are made out of special materials ;). Also, do not forget a slashing, a piercing, and a bludgeoning weapon, as those DR's are not overcome by mere enhancements as well ;). To make your weaponry a bit easier to handle, I suggest geting one of each weapon out of a special material, each with a different damage type (such as a pircing silver, a bludgeoning cold iron, and a slashing adamantine), and then get each weapon at least a +1 enhancement (or carry a few vials of oil of magic weapon) to help with those that have a special material AND magic as their DR (I would also further enhance the silver and the cold iron weapon to be holy if you fight a lot of pesky devil/demons as they need silver/cold iron AND good to overcome thier DR). That should limit your golf bag down to about 3 really good weapons, which, is about a good warrior should be able to have anyways (main (slashing), back-up (bludgeoning), and ranged (piercing)).
castlemike 01-15-08, 09:24 AM	Consider talking to your DM about adding the +1 special DR magical weapon enhancement to your game or work out a homeruled precedence.
Edymnion 01-15-08, 01:05 PM	So, if I'm not a spellcaster, I should carry a silver weapon for lycanthropes, a cold iron weapon for critters with that DR, and a magic weapon if I can get one? Wow, we've been playing that one wrong!Yes, 3.5 introduce the "golf bag of swords" concept, where in order to bypass all DR, you need to carry about a dozen different weapons.
Escef 01-15-08, 03:23 PM	Yes, 3.5 introduce the "golf bag of swords" concept... As often as I've heard it on these boards, in actual play the golf bag never appears. Probably because DMs aren't in the habit of just handing things out. The whole point of 3.5 DR is that since PCs won't have the golf bag it means that they won't be able to get by everything's DR, and thus DR means something and is not all or nothing.
CryoSilver 01-15-08, 03:33 PM	I like 3.5 DR much better than 3.0 DR. In 3.0, DR was an "all-or-nothing" deal, with emphasis on nothing. IT also stripped away the flavor ofsome kinds of DR, with lycanthropes coming quickly to mind. Every myth says you need silver to hurt a werewofl, but with a simple Magic Weapon spell, all that flavor got flushed down the crapper. Now, even your epic hacking sword o' doom still has a harder time cleaving down the werewolf, because it isn't made of silver. It makes DR useful.
Legdiwena 01-15-08, 03:58 PM	You could also get the metalline special property to emulate different materials for DR.
VulcanStormwrath 01-15-08, 04:59 PM	You can also enhance weapons that are made out of special materials ;). Also, do not forget a slashing, a piercing, and a bludgeoning weapon, as those DR's are not overcome by mere enhancements as well ;). To make your weaponry a bit easier to handle, I suggest geting one of each weapon out of a special material, each with a different damage type (such as a pircing silver, a bludgeoning cold iron, and a slashing adamantine), and then get each weapon at least a +1 enhancement (or carry a few vials of oil of magic weapon) to help with those that have a special material AND magic as their DR (I would also further enhance the silver and the cold iron weapon to be holy if you fight a lot of pesky devil/demons as they need silver/cold iron AND good to overcome thier DR). That should limit your golf bag down to about 3 really good weapons, which, is about a good warrior should be able to have anyways (main (slashing), back-up (bludgeoning), and ranged (piercing)). Or a Morphing Weapon and a Metalline Weapon.
Bloodsoul 01-15-08, 06:03 PM	Not sure about Cold Iron or Adamantine, but I recall Alchemical Silver could be applied to weapons for a limited duration using an oil.. come to think of it, I should buy some.
LivingShadow 01-15-08, 06:08 PM	The item you are refering to is called Quicksilver. There is a weapon crystal that allows you to treat your weapon as adamantine for overcoming DR, there's also a glove which allows you to treat your weapon as silver. Combine the crystal and the gloves with a cold iron weapon and you can bypass all three.
Edymnion 01-15-08, 09:14 PM	As often as I've heard it on these boards, in actual play the golf bag never appears.In your personal experience. I have indeed seen the golf bag happen. Heck, I have played a character that hauled around the golf bag of weapons (rogue that used daggers, and had a dagger made out of just about everything by the time it was all said and done). The whole point of 3.5 DR is that since PCs won't have the golf bag it means that they won't be able to get by everything's DR, and thus DR means something and is not all or nothing.It was still poorly done, IMO. Especially when you stop and consider that the only logical reason to change the entire core DR system in mid stream was to invalidate the 3.0 monster books so that you would have to get the 3.5 reprints. The material system could easily have been saved for 4e, but it wasn't. Heck, one of the biggest stumbling blocks in converting 3.0 material to 3.5 is DR.
Salla 01-16-08, 02:49 AM	So, if I'm not a spellcaster, I should carry a silver weapon for lycanthropes, a cold iron weapon for critters with that DR, and a magic weapon if I can get one? Wow, we've been playing that one wrong! Thanks, mikeg Not really. The highest pre-epic DR in the game is 15. 15 points of damage is barely a speedbump to any decently built character. You don't need a 'golf bag of weapons'; you just need to not build your character as a gimp.
Escef 01-16-08, 06:33 AM	In your personal experience. I have indeed seen the golf bag happen. Heck, I have played a character that hauled around the golf bag of weapons (rogue that used daggers, and had a dagger made out of just about everything by the time it was all said and done). Honestly, I think that's pretty nifty for a rogue type. Besides, they're daggers. Whoop-de-dee. Every character I make carries at least three daggers anyway (one in each boot, and one at the small of the back). It was still poorly done, IMO. As opposed to 3.0, when having a magical weapon bypassed all material related DR? Honestly, now that I think about it, I hope in 4e they do away with all the variable pluses on weapons and just have it be "magical". The characters that enter combat the most don't need them, elemental damage properties (flaming, frost, shock, etc.) give you more bang per GP anyway.
runestar 01-16-08, 06:51 AM	3.0 dr was all or nothing. You either could bypass it and it did nothing, or you were screwed, as most, if not all your damage was prevented (iron golem had like what? 50/+3???). 3.5 dr was more meaningful, I suppose, in that it is harder to bypass, and so usually accounted for something, but you were not overly screwed if you lacked access to the proper weapon. Though it is possible to overcome all forms of dr in the game using just 1 weapon. A morphing, sure-striking, metalline weapon lets you overcome any physical, alignment and/or metal-based dr in the game sans dr/-.:)
Edymnion 01-16-08, 12:22 PM	As opposed to 3.0, when having a magical weapon bypassed all material related DR?Yup, back when a magic sword meant something besides "a little bit more damage", and you had a good reason to get a +5 weapon. When the mightiest swords in the land could cleave through all that stood in their way. Now a days, even basic DR on low level critters can stop a +5 weapon cold.
Rustmonster 01-16-08, 08:47 PM	Yup, back when a magic sword meant something besides "a little bit more damage", and you had a good reason to get a +5 weapon. When the mightiest swords in the land could cleave through all that stood in their way. Now a days, even basic DR on low level critters can stop a +5 weapon cold. By "basic DR" of "low level critters", I'm assuming you mean stuff like the 5 DR skeletons get, right? The +5 cancels the DR outright, and then you do your normal damage, which is probably alot more than 5 if you already had a +5 weapon. So, losing the +5 you got to your attack that did far more than that anyway is "stopped cold"? Not really. The skeleton is still very very destroyed.
Cartigan 01-16-08, 09:53 PM	Yup, back when a magic sword meant something besides "a little bit more damage", and you had a good reason to get a +5 weapon. When the mightiest swords in the land could cleave through all that stood in their way. Now a days, even basic DR on low level critters can stop a +5 weapon cold. I'm afraid I have to say :rolleyes: Also, you don't even need a magic weapon to hurt a skeleton. You just need a stick. Skeletons have DR/Bludgeoning. Wow, you pick up a club and surprise, no DR! Your complaint is silly.
pigknight 01-16-08, 11:18 PM	There's an enchantment in Tome of Magic that bypasses ALL DR.