Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Azerith24 01-06-06, 03:48 AM	I have a character that has damage reduction 8/adamantine, is adamantine the only thing that can defeat it or can magically enhanced weapons defeat it or what?
Milo HoBo 01-06-06, 04:08 AM	Adamantine weapons bypass this DR as well as spells. No weapon enhancement can bypass this to my knowledge.
Sir Knight 01-06-06, 07:35 AM	That is correct. Magic will bypass ANY DR all the time (unless specifically stated in the spell description). The only weapon that can bypass it will be Adamantine weapons or weapons or characters with effects that state they can bypass Adamantine DR.
ressurrector 01-06-06, 08:00 AM	Yep, now we need cohorts with golf-bags holding 4-5 greatswords for the fighter, good times. I suggest adding in a weapon enchantment (+1 value) that bypasses all DR. They used to have it in 3.0 before they changed the DR system.
hiryuu 01-06-06, 08:24 AM	Yep, now we need cohorts with golf-bags holding 4-5 greatswords for the fighter, good times. I suggest adding in a weapon enchantment (+1 value) that bypasses all DR. They used to have it in 3.0 before they changed the DR system. Why? Most DR doesn't go over 10, and at the levels it really matters, the fighter is doing somewhere in the neighborhood of 40 or so damage, usually higher. Not only that, but why only greatswords? You're an adventurer, even a wizard ought to have three daggers, a quarterstaff, two crossbows of different types, a sword just in case, and three clubs, fighters obviously more.
Seeker95 01-06-06, 09:15 AM	Adamantine and spells (not "magic") will bypass (ignore) the DR8. Every attack that does more than 8 points of damage will still cause the remainder of damage. DR is damage reduction, not an immunity.
Ulorian 01-06-06, 10:19 AM	Why? Most DR doesn't go over 10, and at the levels it really matters, the fighter is doing somewhere in the neighborhood of 40 or so damage, usually higher. Not only that, but why only greatswords? You're an adventurer, even a wizard ought to have three daggers, a quarterstaff, two crossbows of different types, a sword just in case, and three clubs, fighters obviously more.Exactly. This 'golfbag' thing is an overreaction.
Seeker95 01-06-06, 11:00 AM	How to overcome DR Hit harder.
lugnut71 01-06-06, 11:33 AM	Heck you can get through most DR by just carrying a double weapon with two different metal heads. Ain't cheap but if your that worried about DR.
ressurrector 01-06-06, 07:49 PM	Exactly. This 'golfbag' thing is an overreaction. The golfbag thing was a joke I picked up from elsewhere on these forums. Also, generally fighters have a single favored weapon that they prefer using. (wep focus/spec) I still advocate having an enchantment that can overcome DR, since it balances out overall.
q'afuu 01-06-06, 07:58 PM	I still advocate having an enchantment that can overcome DR, since it balances out overall. I much prefer DRs based on materials, and not having one type of weapon/material/enchantment that bypasses all of them. If your PCs absolutely have to be able to bypass a specific DR they don't have the right weapons for, make acquiring such weapons part of the adventure.
Tempest Stormwind 01-06-06, 08:13 PM	There are two enhancements you should know about, then -- Metalline and Sure Striking. The former lets you treat your weapon as a different substance than it is for the purposes of DR (and you can change which substance it is in combat), while the latter emulates alignments the same way. They're costly to add to a weapon, but very useful. And if you're worried about sunders, make the base weapon out of Aurorum (Book of Exalted Deeds). One full-round action later and it's in one piece again.
Ulorian 01-06-06, 10:13 PM	The golfbag thing was a joke I picked up from elsewhere on these forums.Many people make the golfbag reference; I'm saying that anyone who makes that type of statement is blowing things out of proportion. The fact that DRs have been greatly reduced in 3.5 obviates the need for a 'golfbag' of weapons. The 3.0 DR system was ridiculous: there was no point in DR at all, since PCs who were of sufficient level to take on a monster with a certain DR were virtually guaranteed to have a magic weapon of the required 'plusses' to beat the DR.
green_yawgmoth 01-07-06, 02:21 AM	Why? Most DR doesn't go over 10, and at the levels it really matters, the fighter is doing somewhere in the neighborhood of 40 or so damage, usually higher. Not only that, but why only greatswords? You're an adventurer, even a wizard ought to have three daggers, a quarterstaff, two crossbows of different types, a sword just in case, and three clubs, fighters obviously more. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if a fighter is fighting something with let's say DR 10/ham and is weapon is not made of ham, isn't 10 damage taken off of each hit? Thus, if he hits 4 times for 11 damage each, he's done a total 4 damage in his full attack? http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
Tempest Stormwind 01-07-06, 02:37 AM	Correct me if I'm wrong, but if a fighter is fighting something with let's say DR 10/ham and is weapon is not made of ham, isn't 10 damage taken off of each hit? Thus, if he hits 4 times for 11 damage each, he's done a total 4 damage in his full attack?Correct. However, no fighter capable of four hits a round should only be doing 11 damage a hit. Unless, perhaps, he's doing pure two-weapon fighting, but that isn't the road to victory unless you have a source of bonus damage (which, beyond Weapon Specialization, fighters don't). See my sig for the Commandments of Optimization.
ressurrector 01-07-06, 02:42 AM	Correct. However, no fighter capable of four hits a round should only be doing 11 damage a hit. Unless, perhaps, he's doing pure two-weapon fighting, but that isn't the road to victory unless you have a source of bonus damage (which, beyond Weapon Specialization, fighters don't). See my sig for the Commandments of Optimization. Some of us build for a concept, not for kill-power. This being said, if you want to use 2 daggers with no streingth bonus, play as a rogue not a fighter.
Tempest Stormwind 01-07-06, 03:07 AM	Some of us build for a concept, not for kill-power. This being said, if you want to use 2 daggers with no streingth bonus, play as a rogue not a fighter. And the moment you pick up a big sword because it's better than the afforementioned two daggers, you have just done some min/maxing. It's not evil to want to play an effective character, concept or no. Just as an ineffective character can be made better by learning the rules, so too can a transparent character be made richer with more experience playing the game. The problem comes when the only thing you care about is one of those two things over the other. We call people who only care about the numbers "munchkins" as a derogatory term, and we usually refer them to a computer game which is more up their alley. I suggest that we do the same thing to the people who do not care at all about the numbers or the mechanics, and have a character that in the context of the game rules simply cannot function (that twin-dagger fighter with no strength bonus, for instance, would function far better as a rogue with weapon finesse, but this player will hear none of that since his concept is a warrior and everyone knows that a rogue can't be a warrior *tongue in cheek*). These people may as well be simply writing, or playing a free-form game. The rules exist; they are a fact of D&D. If you do not accept them, or the assumption that your character is a fantasy adventurer, then you may as well play another game. I wonder why only the munchkins are considered 'wrong' on these boards, and not the free-formers. Summary: It is quite possible to have a concept and an effective character. If you are lacking in one, you can learn more about it and improve later. Good roleplaying and character optimization are not mutually exclusive, and neither one should hold the other hostage. In direct response to your quote, even a subpar fighter at the point when he has four attacks (level 16 or so) should be able to deal more than 10 damage in an attack, and his spellcaster friends should be able to nullify the threat far before the DR becomes an issue. In the TWF route, 4 attacks come at level 6, but TWF was always a hard route to follow without a source of bonus damage (like sneak attack, favored enemy, or even Weapon Specialization). A fighter may have a hard time dealing out that much damage consistently at level 6, but at level 6 your party also has access to blasting magic (and it's not ineffective at that level!), and your fighter has enough room in his feats (if he lingered in the class that long; if not he probably has a PrC) to deliver other options -- like tripping or bull rushing.
ressurrector 01-07-06, 03:23 AM	Personally what I do is I generally either find a single PrC that I like, then make a character concept to go with it. Or I start with a concept or event then look for class and PrC that fit it well. [edit] and if your fighter can't damage something, there are 2 options: A: he fights on the defensive or takes the full defense action and lets everyone else deal with it. B: RUN AWAAAAAAAY!!!!! C: Mage/Cleric enchants his weapon(s) temporarily (with spells) for extra dmg.
green_yawgmoth 01-07-06, 05:46 AM	Correct. However, no fighter capable of four hits a round should only be doing 11 damage a hit. Unless, perhaps, he's doing pure two-weapon fighting, but that isn't the road to victory unless you have a source of bonus damage (which, beyond Weapon Specialization, fighters don't). See my sig for the Commandments of Optimization.You shouldn't be required to optimize to hell and back just to be able to do damage. Consider also that some people play monks, and are swrewd against anything other than DR x/magic, x/adamantine if they go pure monk. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
Nom 01-07-06, 07:20 AM	It's also not unacceptable to have the occasional encounter that your character can't function optimally against. Of course, if every second encounter seems to have DR 20/-, or is immune to sneak attack, or has SR 40, then players of some classes may feel that they are not getting a fair showing.
PeterWhalley 01-07-06, 07:43 AM	As people have already pointed out, DR numbers have been reduced in 3.5 so as to avoid the problem of a foe you simply cannot hurt with your current gear. DR is a big part of the flavour of some monsters- Lycanthropes, Demons etc etc, and if you're going to have some mcguffin that ignores it completely, then you're going to sacrifice that flavour. Indeed, if you want to go down that route, then it would be easier to simply eliminate DR from your game altogether. Doing that of course, opens up a can of worms in that the concept of the 'Fearsome beast the peasants/militia/guys that aren't the PCs can't stop' becomes less substantial as a game concept. And IMO it's an important one to the heroic fantasy genre. The only simple way to deal with that is to completely rewrite DR as a function of opponent's level (i.e DR 10/8th level PC), which is a bit daft. :) Simply put, DR as it stands is a perfectly valid way of reflecting the flavour of a powerful supernatural beast within the rules set of D&D, and the numbers involved are not so huge as to render any particular beast invulnerable to PCs of the appropriate level. Although every now and then it's fun to throw a beastie against the party that they can't beat- like a low CR Demon against starting PCs, just to set up a future conflict when they go looking for the weapons needed to defeat their foe. (Assuming of course, that most players have the sense to run away when they can't hurt something after a round or two of combat).
Gemstone 01-07-06, 07:55 AM	Actually I did rewrite the DR rules so they worked as the 3.5 rules, with the simple change of the x/magic & x/epic (since they're perfectly worthless). Instead they got x/y, were y was a function of your CR
green_yawgmoth 01-07-06, 08:43 AM	Actually I did rewrite the DR rules so they worked as the 3.5 rules, with the simple change of the x/magic & x/epic (since they're perfectly worthless). Instead they got x/y, where y was a function of your CRThis is what I think I'm going to do IMC. DR x/magic is pitiful. It might as well be DR x/weapons, considering what monsters get DR/magic. A red wyrm still takes the same damage from a +1 dart that his son the young adult does. Double the CR, yet still has the weakest DR in the game.
q'afuu 01-07-06, 09:00 AM	Consider also that some people play monks, and are swrewd against anything other than DR x/magic, x/adamantine if they go pure monk.Actually, even pure monks are mechanically often better off using weapons than unarmed strikes anyway.
Seeker95 01-07-06, 12:39 PM	If you can't cause enough damage to hurt it, don't fight it.
Gemstone 01-07-06, 01:49 PM	If you can't cause enough damage to hurt it, don't fight it. I prefer to say: If you can't cause enough damage to hurt it, then: a) Outsmart it b) Retreat and hit harder the next time c) trick it into destroying itself