Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Farealmer 08-02-05, 08:25 PM	Hi all, farealmer here. I am sure most of you know this Tremendous Strength: For Strength scores not shown on Table: Carrying Capacity, find the Strength score between 20 and 29 that has the same number in the “ones” digit as the creature’s Strength score does and multiply the numbers in that for by 4 for every ten points the creature’s strength is above the score for that row. How would you go about increasing attack damage to match what it really should be at huge strengths. I mean really, at str 100 you can lift 8,716,288 lbs(at medium size :eek: ). But you only do a extra +45 to damage! That's not even a maxed fireball, yet you could lift the Tarrasque with ease. I would be grateful for any help.
Seeker95 08-02-05, 09:39 PM	I mean really, at str 100 [...] I would be grateful for any help.Get a DM that knows how to slap players for thinking such things are even possible. Much less should even remotely be permitted.
Farealmer 08-02-05, 10:15 PM	Get a DM that knows how to slap players for thinking such things are even possible. Much less should even remotely be permitted. I AM the DM and i am using creatures that can lift superheavy starships, pre 100 str isn't going to pull that off. But their damage isn't working out, so i need a system to increase damage for such strength scores. Telling me you don't approve isn't help, thats what i asked for, not your disapproval.
Vaelan 08-02-05, 11:14 PM	Hi all, farealmer here. I am sure most of you know this How would you go about increasing attack damage to match what it really should be at huge strengths. I mean really, at str 100 you can lift 8,716,288 lbs(at medium size :eek: ). But you only do a extra +45 to damage! That's not even a maxed fireball, yet you could lift the Tarrasque with ease. I would be grateful for any help. This is the same principle that gave us the mechanics that break the Hulking Hurler. If you want to do more damage due to your high Strength, use your Strength more effectively by dropping extremely heavy objects on people.
Asciiman 08-02-05, 11:23 PM	I AM the DM and i am using creatures that can lift superheavy starships, pre 100 str isn't going to pull that off. What in the hell kind of a D&D game are you running? Starships? Sounds like you have more then one problem here.
Farealmer 08-03-05, 12:41 AM	What in the hell kind of a D&D game are you running? Starships? Sounds like you have more then one problem here. Whats it matter :rolleyes: ? Really people, either help me or don't post. I need a solution to my problem, not the 101 ways my games don't follow the "norm" :mad: . If you can't get over that sorry but it ain't going to change because your don't like it. To those who did not get that before POST ON THE TOPIC, NOT MY GAMING STYLE.
masterclif 08-03-05, 12:44 AM	Vaelan already did. READ THE POSTS.
Farealmer 08-03-05, 01:00 AM	Vaelan already did. No he didn't, he suggested a different way to use the strength, thats all. I am looking for a system to increase the damage for high strength scores per hit beyond the str modifier. As that doesn't represent how much damage a creature that could lift a starship could do. A creature with a 150 str score(8,925,478,912 lbs. as light load)should do more than +70 to damage, that's a scratch to a starship.
masterclif 08-03-05, 01:04 AM	He meant, lift a mountain and throw it. There are rules for damage verses the weight of an object.
Farealmer 08-03-05, 01:13 AM	He meant, lift a mountain and throw it. There are rules for damage verses the weight of an object. I know what he meant, and it doesn't help me, how many times do i have to say it? I already told you what i need, a system to increase the damage a creatures attack does based on uber STR scores.
Puritan13 08-03-05, 01:18 AM	You could use something like what Palladium does with Supernatural strength. I don't know it off hand, but characters and creatures get bonus damage for supernatural strength. I think it's Conversion Book 1 that has such rules, but I am not positive on that. From time to time, I have brought in Palladium flavored stuff into my games. Templates such as the Juicer and Crazy have made appearances, and I have played in Rifts earth using D20 rules before. But I don't really think you need to do that. Think about it, with a +45 damage bonus, you are dealing enough automatic damage to kill 7 normal people (assuming 1st level commoners).
braindead345 08-03-05, 01:30 AM	Strength is only part of the damage capablity. Using it effectively is the key. When you throw a punch or kick, you are using momentum of your own body to increase damage. Speed is also an important factor in this; as is smaller contact points to increase impact. While it may be true that body builder types are not necessarily slow, they do tend to require larger contact points (due to larger muscles in the hands, legs,etc). What would hold most characters that strong back is the delicacy of every objecy around them. Try imagining living in an enviroment where everthing is made of toilet paper; now try to imagine not destroying things when you touch them. Living in this type of enviroment long enough will force you to be careful. As for modifing the damage, you could always make the character a monk and add the unarmed damage bonuses. However, in reguards to the fireball damage, fireballs can do under 10 points of damage with bad dice rolls. Your +45 to damage is guaranteed and more than enough to force a serious concentration check on the spellcaster. For all of you ranting about characters that strong, remember for a standard race character to reach STR 100 -without magical enhancements-they would have to be somewhere around 320th level. A point where they would be incurring penalties for extreme old age.
Farealmer 08-03-05, 01:45 AM	But I don't really think you need to do that. Think about it, with a +45 damage bonus, you are dealing enough automatic damage to kill 7 normal people (assuming 1st level commoners). And barely dent most starships. For all of you ranting about characters that strong, remember for a standard race character to reach STR 100 -without magical enhancements-they would have to be somewhere around 320th level. A point where they would be incurring penalties for extreme old age. i am using creatures that can lift superheavy starships Look at your quote, then mine, does it say PC's? No it says creatures as in monsters my players will be fighting. But the problem isn't the situation, the problem is the system it'self needs to be fixed, and i am asking for a solution. I am bad at math and making a system that could do justice to str score damages of 100+ isn't my specialty. I need a way to increase the attack damage with the lifting capacity in general. Like the table for increased lift, only one for increased damage for tremendous strength. Because a mere +45 to damage is nothing when you can lift that kind of weight.
allenchan 08-03-05, 01:49 AM	Check out the hulking hurler build on the co forum that does billions of damage. :P
Callahan 08-03-05, 03:06 AM	But the problem isn't the situation, the problem is the system it'self needs to be fixed, and i am asking for a solution. I am bad at math and making a system that could do justice to str score damages of 100+ isn't my specialty. I need a way to increase the attack damage with the lifting capacity in general. Like the table for increased lift, only one for increased damage for tremendous strength. Because a mere +45 to damage is nothing when you can lift that kind of weight. Look, only what? 1% of the people on these forums will ever run in to a situation where a monster will have a strength score higher then 50. Even Big T has a score of 45. For the other 99% of the people the strength score VS max lift is not and never will be an issue. If you want to "fix" your game then at least take this discussion to the Epic level boards where there might be the odd person or two that might have thought that this could be a problem.
Colmarr 08-03-05, 05:02 AM	Farealmer, IMO you are making the mistake of equating being able to lift something with being able to physically damage it. I can lift a medium-sized aluminium filing cabinet, but could I punch it to pieces? Not without causing serious damage to my hand I couldn't. The ability to cause damage is not only a function of strength, it is a function of hardness. Further, the damage rules in D&D are based just as much on size as on strength. Let's use the Tarrasque as an example. Because of its size it rolls 4d8 for base damage. In your suggested example of a creature with 100 strength, that equates to 4d8 + 45 damage; an average of 63 points of damage. If the creature is using a two-handed weapon or a primary natural attack, it's 4d8 +67. That's enough to punch or bite straight through an inch of solid adamantite (1.5 with a primary attack), or just short of 2 inches of steel (2.5 with a primary attack). If you take it a step further and assume the creature has power attack (what creature that size wouldn't), the damage figures you begin to talk about go though the roof. I honestly don't see the problem. I know that's not what you want to hear, but I feel the rules do an adequate job of accounting for your desires.
Joe Khol 08-03-05, 06:03 AM	Farealmer, I agree with other replies that you are probably expecting too much from 100+ STR monsters. The damage bonus is already significant. They don't scratch starships because they are meant to be very tough - they have to be (though maybe your starships are too tough?). It could be that the scaling of the max-lift is the real issue (as you've shown, those numbers do get very silly). I do like to be helpful so how about some kind of unlimited Power Attack (either as a special ability or additional feat)? If your super-strong monsters are attacking starships I assume attack bonus isn't an issue (and the high STR mods apply to that anyway). Under 3.5 that will double the STR based damage bonus straight off. If that still isn't enough for you I really think you need to look at other factors in the equation or simply adjust your expectations.
q'afuu 08-03-05, 07:54 AM	I can lift a medium-sized aluminium filing cabinet, but could I punch it to pieces? Not without causing serious damage to my hand I couldn't. This is the rub, this is where the system 'breaks down' (though not really). In D&D, the strength used for your own attack never inflicts damage on you or your weapon. That's ok as long as nobody tries anything too outrageous. A hyena has more than enough strength in its jaws to bite through steel plates. It won't try to do that though, since that would inflict serious damage to itself in the process. Your +100 Str monsters might have the strength to punch through a starship's hull, if they try that they would probably shatter every bone in their arm (or whatever equivalent appendage they would use). If they can gain enough grip and leverage, they can try to rip the hull open somewhere though, or bend a wing out of shape or something.
Vaelan 08-03-05, 08:39 AM	It could be that the scaling of the max-lift is the real issue (as you've shown, those numbers do get very silly). That was exactly my point with the Hulking Hurler comment. Farealmer, this is an inconsistency between Strength's affect on two different things. Bonuses to damage are linear. Carrying capacity is exponential. To fix this inconsistency, you can either make damage bonuses exponential or you can make carrying capacity linear. Care to take a guess as to which will lead to less ridiculous results? :)
Count Arioch the 28th 08-03-05, 09:16 AM	I can lift a medium-sized aluminium filing cabinet, but could I punch it to pieces? Not without causing serious damage to my hand I couldn't. The ability to cause damage is not only a function of strength, it is a function of hardness. I've done some serious damage to a filing cabinet at work that I couldn't hope to lift.
Zherog 08-03-05, 09:49 AM	If the creature is using a two-handed weapon or a primary natural attack... If you take it a step further and assume the creature has power attack (what creature that size wouldn't), the damage figures you begin to talk about go though the roof. These were my first two thoughts. A creature with a +45 to attacks from strength alone could afford to Power Attack for almost all their BAB every single time. If that creature has a 20 BAB and is using a two-handed weapon, we're talking about another 40 points of damage being tossed onto the pile. Now you're at 107 points of damage per hit without ever rolling a damage die.
Sulaco 08-03-05, 11:07 AM	No he didn't, he suggested a different way to use the strength, thats all. I am looking for a system to increase the damage for high strength scores per hit beyond the str modifier. As that doesn't represent how much damage a creature that could lift a starship could do. A creature with a 150 str score(8,925,478,912 lbs. as light load)should do more than +70 to damage, that's a scratch to a starship. If they can lift that much then a single blow will kill anything it hits.
Phrennzy 08-03-05, 12:17 PM	Eight Billion pounds? He can't lift 8 Billion pounds because nothing wieghs Eight Billion pounds. I would just give this starship punching monster a damage bonus of whatever you think is appropriate. He'd better be pretty big to punch a starship. Don't like +45? Give him +60, +75, +90. Whatever you think is appropriate. Or more d6 on his attack. 6d6+45. 10d6+45.
BeyondFated 08-03-05, 12:37 PM	And I thought my group plays with riduculusly powerful monsters, but thats just...wow. :eek: Regardless, if thats what you guys like, more power to ya! :thumbsup: Anyway, regarding your question, Phrennzy, in all of his pink pony princess glory, has probably given you the best advice. Give him a bonus that seem appropriate to you. Its simple, fast, and easy. Also, a quick question. What is said starship made of, and how thick is it? If 46-70/80ish damage won't even dent it, what the holy abyss is that thing!? And: your a tool Farealmer, have you monster do what ever you want, because for some reason the rules aren't good enough for you Don't be like that, mate. The man is just trying to have fun beating the crap out of 3 yard think adamantine.
Orcboss 08-03-05, 12:44 PM	Now you're at 107 points of damage per hit without ever rolling a damage die. And if I remember correctly, 100 is enough to force a Fort save vs. death from massive damage on just about any living creature. At that point, it's the death save for every single punch that becomes a lot more important than the HP damage. And I can't remember the exact calculation, but that Fort save DC for 100 points of damage is going to be ridiculously high.
obrysii 08-03-05, 12:47 PM	your a tool Farealmer, have you monster do what ever you want, because for some reason the rules aren't good enough for you There is no reason to insult him like that. He just wanted suggestions on how to scale up damage compared to strength scores. As for nothing weighing 8 billion pounds...how sadly mistaken. Eight billion pounds is four million tons. There are many things that weigh that much. Just nothing small. And by small, I mean smaller than a large mountain.
Mr. Leet 08-03-05, 12:51 PM	With such extremely powerful creatures, I doubt the mechanics behind their strength is all that important... I have creatures of true epic proportions hiding inside or even on the "flip-side" of my flat disk world, and if I think they're capable of punching a hole through a starship, so be it. I'm not gonna sit around trying to figure out their strength scores, feats, etc etc. Unless, of course, your players are going to face one of these creatures... lol... I sure hope they have some kind of uber artifact. Geez.. I guess I didn't help much.
Nomad4life 08-03-05, 03:04 PM	STR 100? Starships!?! You would be far, far, far better off switching to another game system, rather than trying to mangle the D&D rules into… Whatever it is you’re trying to do. Really. Seriously.
Sulaco 08-03-05, 03:40 PM	Eight Billion pounds? He can't lift 8 Billion pounds because nothing wieghs Eight Billion pounds. What do you mean nothing weighs 8 billion pounds? Many things do. Indeed, given the scope of the universe and the volume of material and large objects within it, you might even say that most things well more than that. 8 billion pounds is 3,628,728 million tonnes. There is currently a mega ship being planned that weighs 3 million tons. Yes, a ship that floats on water. When you factor in cargo - which can nearly double the weight of the ship - then it really does not seem at all unreasonable that there could be starships well greater than this in both size and weight. It is pretty unreasonable IMO to have monsters able to lift one though.
Sulaco 08-03-05, 03:43 PM	STR 100? Starships!?! You would be far, far, far better off switching to another game system, rather than trying to mangle the D&D rules into… Whatever it is you’re trying to do. Really. Seriously. Pretty much. I say this in all sincerity Farealmer: you would be much better off with another system. What you are doing here is like those guys in England who tried to make lightsabres by filling floursecent light tubes with gasoline and setting them on fire: while you might be able to accomplish your goal briefly it is utterly incompatible technology and the whole thing is going to shatter. Luckily, people will only get burned metaphorically in this case.
Solaris 08-03-05, 05:11 PM	Eight billion pounds is four million tons. There are many things that weigh that much. Just nothing small. And by small, I mean smaller than a large mountain. 10 cubic centimeters of neutron star material would do it (at a density of 4 * 10^11 g/cm^3)... but that's pretty exotic.
Farealmer 08-03-05, 11:17 PM	WOW, so many posts, so little help. Lets see here Critics-check rudeness-check "use another system"-check One mad farealmer-check Really, when i say help me, i mean that a mathimatical way to increase damage based on the "ridiculus" strength scores i use. Not the following Your opinion of my games Your suggestions on how this can be moved around Your opinion of my creatures And any combination of opinion, suggestions, my creatures, or my game that i forgot. Really, is it that hard to make a damage system, is no one out there good at math? And i plan on finishing the game with a 1000 str score monster. Who can lift the known universe as a light load, but cannot do enough damage in one hit to destroy a starship :rolleyes: . Now i cry :weep: .
Vaelan 08-04-05, 04:55 AM	Convert the carrying capacity scores into a linear equation. If you do this, something that is strong enough to lift half of the known universe at once will have an extremely high Strength score and thus an equally extremely high damage bonus. For example, a light load for a character with a Strength of 10 is 33 pounds, according to the rules in the PHB. Instead of working off of an exponential scale, work off of a linear scale and say that (as an example) one's light load is equal to 33 + 6 * STR modifier. If you did this, a creature that would treat 8,925,478,912 pounds as a light load would have a Strength modifier of 1,487,579,814. I gave you a decent-enough rule to more accurately reflect the carrying capacity of a creature compared to the bonus to damage it gains (that wouldn't significantly alter the game's balance like your original idea would). If you don't like the numbers, mess with them until you do. Lastly, stop *****ing about the replies you get. None of us are obligated to help you, so stop acting like we are.
Joe Khol 08-04-05, 04:58 AM	WOW, so many posts, so little help. It's true you've had a lot of unhelpful replies but not without some reason. I said I think your assumptions about what high strength scores should mean in regards to damaging starships is flawed. I (and others) suggested the systemic problem is the calculation of max lift, not damage modifiers. I (and others again) also offered help by suggesting something around Power Attack (or an extension of it). If that isn't enough to meet your needs then you are talking about changing a fundamental aspect of the system. So, ignore the rude and insulting replies, read the freely offered (and perfectly reasonable) suggestions and advice and accept that you might have to adjust your assumptions a little if you are going to make this work in D&D as we know it.
Nomad4life 08-04-05, 08:40 AM	WOW, so many posts, so little help. I think you’ve managed to overlook how genuinely helpful most of those posts were. If you want to ignore a crowd of people yelling for you not to enter a burning building, that’s your right to do so- But that doesn’t make them “unhelpful” for doing it.
Sulaco 08-04-05, 10:28 AM	WOW, so many posts, so little help. Lets see here Critics-check rudeness-check "use another system"-check One mad farealmer-check Really, when i say help me, i mean that a mathimatical way to increase damage based on the "ridiculus" strength scores i use. Not the following Your opinion of my games Your suggestions on how this can be moved around Your opinion of my creatures And any combination of opinion, suggestions, my creatures, or my game that i forgot. Really, is it that hard to make a damage system, is no one out there good at math? And i plan on finishing the game with a 1000 str score monster. Who can lift the known universe as a light load, but cannot do enough damage in one hit to destroy a starship :rolleyes: . Now i cry :weep: . Jebus H. Christmas, man, just :censored: do it! Change it to whatever the hell you bloody well want it to be! If you are a DM, someone who by definition is requried to solve problems and make decisions why do you require instructions from us and how to do some simple bloody math? It's your game, only you know what result you want, so you need to do it. If you can't figure out something as simple as "maybe I should double the bonus for STR between 30 to 50, triple it for STR from 51-75. etc." without help from strangers then, in all sincerity, maybe you shouldn't be trying to DM.
Phrennzy 08-04-05, 10:47 AM	8 billion pounds is 3,628,728 million tonnes. There is currently a mega ship being planned that weighs 3 million tons. Yes, a ship that floats on water. When you factor in cargo - which can nearly double the weight of the ship - then it really does not seem at all unreasonable that there could be starships well greater than this in both size and weight. It is pretty unreasonable IMO to have monsters able to lift one though. Yeah right. And the Earth is round too, I suppose? Your lies will get you no where.
Phrennzy 08-04-05, 10:57 AM	WOW, so many posts, so little help. Lets see here Really, when i say help me, i mean that a mathimatical way to increase damage based on the "ridiculus" strength scores i use. Not the following Really, is it that hard to make a damage system, is no one out there good at math? And i plan on finishing the game with a 1000 str score monster. Who can lift the known universe as a light load, but cannot do enough damage in one hit to destroy a starship :rolleyes: . Perhaps it would help us if we knew how much damage a ship punching monster had to be able to do to punch a ship and do damage. I gotta say that your attitude doesn't exactly endear you to the other posters, nor does it exactly make anyone want to help you. Don't like the criticism? Ignore it. Quit whining about it. Ignore it. The bottom line is: you don't need a system. Don't confine yourself to the system. Break free. What you have planned - a Monster with a STR score of 1000 is so beyond the system, that it cannot be contained or quantified by the current system. But if you feel that you must have a system, here it is. The new STR table. STR 1 –5 2–3 –4 4–5 –3 6–7 –2 8–9 –1 10–11 0 12–13 +1 14–15 +2 16–17 +3 18–19 +4 20–21 +5 22–23 +6 24–25 +7 26–27 +8 28–29 +9 30–31 +10 32–33 +11 34–35 +12 36–37 +13 38–39 +14 40–41 +15 42–43 +16 44–45 +17 46-47 +18 48-49 +19 50 +20 Each additional point of STR above 50 gives a +1 Damage Bonus. So STR 100 = +70 STR 200 = +170 STR 1000 = +970 There you go. You now have a chart. And it can be considered RAW, because I have Written the Rules down.
Farealmer 08-04-05, 08:48 PM	O.K. now we may be getting somewhere, however post by post examination is required. Vaelan Lastly, stop *****ing about the replies you get. None of us are obligated to help you, so stop acting like we are. And none of you are obligated to spam my thread with worthless posts and opinions, yet you all find time for that :rolleyes: . Bye the way Thank you ;) Joe Khol So, ignore the rude and insulting replies Unfortunalty when around 75% of the replies fall into that, i can't ignore it. Nomad4life If you want to ignore a crowd of people yelling for you not to enter a burning building I didn't realize my gaming style was so dangerous to your mind set, that a burning building is it's only parallel :rolleyes: . Sulaco If you are a DM, someone who by definition is requried to solve problems and make decisions why do you require instructions from us and how to do some simple bloody math? It's your game, only you know what result you want, so you need to do it. If you can't figure out something as simple as "maybe I should double the bonus for STR between 30 to 50, triple it for STR from 51-75. etc." without help from strangers then, in all sincerity, maybe you shouldn't be trying to DM. This is the only "real" help you have given thus far, if it can be called that. And yet the fault lies with me, if you don't like my ways don't post on the thread. I don't get why people like you go on another's thread, don't offer help, then when it's pointed out you go all ballistic and give a little help, while flaming away. Really Sulaco, don't you have something better to do than give me a hard time? Phrennzy I gotta say that your attitude doesn't exactly endear you to the other posters, nor does it exactly make anyone want to help you. Considering i had to be rude to finally get real help, whats that tell you about yourself. Don't like the criticism? Ignore it. Quit whining about it. Ignore it. When the number of helpful posts, equals or exceeds the number of nonhelpful/rude posts i will do that. There you go. You now have a chart. And it can be considered RAW, because I have Written the Rules down. And despite the help you still manage to squeeze the rudeness in :rolleyes: . I love how the fact that i said i needed a system for increasing STR based damage to parallel lift, gets confused with need more damage. You tell me "new system" and you tell me "power attack". You basically give me every answer but the one i ask for, then when i get upset about it, you finally give something useful. Yet i am the one who needs to be less rude? You people have a really sad definition of rude.
Orcboss 08-06-05, 12:28 AM	If you want to do this, why not just make starships subject to the Death From Massive Damage rules, just like characters. It would be far easier to do that than to completely overhaul the way Strength works. You get the effect you want and you have to change very little to get there.
Seeker95 08-06-05, 08:44 AM	When the number of helpful posts, equals or exceeds the number of nonhelpful/rude posts i will do that.This becomes difficult when you reply to every post you consider to be rude with an equally (or escalatingly) rude post of your own. :P
Temrek 08-06-05, 09:19 AM	Another thing to consider, no matter how strong you are there is a limit on how much you can lift before your body breaks down. So they should logically (although you are not obligated to do this) be of quite large size. Also I can eaisly lift a hammer, but there is no way I could damage it with my bare hands. Another thing to look at is the weapon damage, from the d20 future SRD (if you are using d20 future that is) the most powerfull non-mine starship weapon does 20d8 damage with an average of 90 and is called a singularity cannon. So a +45 damage is a lot (and comparing it to a maximized fireball, what is worse? Being slapped by a small mountain or hugging the sun?) but if you still think that is not enough phrennzys system was quite good.
Farealmer 08-06-05, 08:42 PM	This becomes difficult when you reply to every post you consider to be rude with an equally (or escalatingly) rude post of your own. Hey, i let the punishment fit the crime. Also I can eaisly lift a hammer, but there is no way I could damage it with my bare hands. But is your strength 100+, things tend to be different at those levels. Besides i already use a rule for that, and it doesn't apply if the creature has natural armor or DR. Another thing to look at is the weapon damage, from the d20 future SRD (if you are using d20 future that is) the most powerfull non-mine starship weapon does 20d8 damage with an average of 90 and is called a singularity cannon. Don't get me started on starship weapons, cause the screwed that up something bad. Doesn't matter anyway i did it using a ingenius system balance, so thanks for little. Guess i know better than ask this board for help in "the future" :P .
Seeker95 08-06-05, 09:17 PM	Guess i know better than ask this board for help in "the future" :P .I suspect this decision will leave both sides happier!
BeyondFated 08-06-05, 10:13 PM	Doesn't matter anyway i did it using a ingenius system balance, so thanks for little. Guess i know better than ask this board for help in "the future" :P . Wow, your humblness is astonishing.:bored: Seriously, you would probably get better responses if you weren't so arrogant and pompus. Be alittle kinder in your posts, don't fight fire with fire. Then again, you probably won't take my advice, so I apologize for "spaming your thread with worthless posts and opinions"...
Temrek 08-06-05, 10:23 PM	Don't get me started on starship weapons, cause the screwed that up something bad. Doesn't matter anyway i did it using a ingenius system balance, so thanks for little. Guess i know better than ask this board for help in "the future" :P . Well I was comparing comparing the systems damage value to each other, should someone possesing beyond god like strength deal more damage then a black hole with a mass of hundreds of millions of tons? But if you do increase the damage from weapons you should increase all other types of damage as well. Sounds to me like your problems would be solved by reducing stuffs hps a little. Also, keep in mind that this is a forum so you should expect people to comment on anything you say.
Orcboss 08-07-05, 12:08 AM	Guess i know better than ask this board for help in "the future" :P . For those interested, your Ignore list is located under "My Account". It should be the second to last option on the left.
Tenzhi 08-07-05, 01:35 AM	I love how the fact that i said i needed a system for increasing STR based damage to parallel lift, gets confused with need more damage. Yes. It's amazing how a need for increased damage gets confused with a need for more damage. ;) Due to problems of leverage and weight, a medium-sized character with a 100 Strength couldn't in fact lift most 8-million pound objects. Due to similar problems, the character generally couldn't punch through a starship hull or likely even dent it. The amount of force needed to punch through the hull would hurl the medium character backwards before the hull was even dented. That's not rude, that's just physics or something like it. ;) However, as a subscriber to comic-book physics myself I can foresee that such things may not matter. This brings us to the problem of how to balance an increase in damage of that calibre between characters. I'd say the answer lies in giving some sort of bonus damage for high strength versus objects. This would allow for bringing down castles, cracking mountains in half, and punching through starships, without overtly affecting character-to-character combat. I would probably go with a multiplier that starts at x2 at Strength 30 and goes up one every ten points of strength or so (Strength 100 would be +45 x9 for +405 points of damage to objects). However, not knowing how starships and such work in your campaign or any other variants that might affect a radical change to strength I can't say how well this suits your purposes.
Farealmer 08-07-05, 01:53 AM	I suspect this decision will leave both sides happier! I didn't realize i constituted a side. Wow, your humblness is astonishing Ain't it though Seriously, you would probably get better responses if you weren't so arrogant and pompus. Be alittle kinder in your posts, don't fight fire with fire. I'll not be, when everyone else isn't. Then again, you probably won't take my advice, so I apologize for "spaming your thread with worthless posts and opinions"... Glad you realize it. But if you do increase the damage from weapons you should increase all other types of damage as well. Sounds to me like your problems would be solved by reducing stuffs hps a little. I said i got it, nice to see help when thier isn't a problem :rolleyes: . Also, keep in mind that this is a forum so you should expect people to comment on anything you say. This tends to balance out with For those interested, your Ignore list is located under "My Account". It should be the second to last option on the left. I never use it myself, too distasteful, but for the overly sensitive who cannot handle the truth, i could see it as necessary. Like poor Orcboss, he/she doesn't seem like the type to be able to handle the truth. Yes. It's amazing how a need for increased damage gets confused with a need for more damage. Yeah especially considering it's like confusing spell damage progression with weapon size damage :rolleyes: . However, not knowing how starships and such work in your campaign or any other variants that might affect a radical change to strength I can't say how well this suits your purposes. Too little, too late comes to mind.
d_nychus 08-07-05, 02:10 AM	First off, have you considered two-handed weapons deal 1.5 normal Strength damage. That's +67 damage for a two-handed weapon weilded by a character with 100 Strength. Combine that with Power Attack, and you will have a huge amount of damage with each attack. Have you considered that the rule for the hardness of your spaceship is the problem? In d20 Future, the hardness of the best armored ship is 40, which means that character with a 100+ Strength can eventually smash apart a ship half a mile long and weighing 540,000 tons.
Algorithm_X 08-07-05, 02:13 AM	As a side note I don't think 'Collosal' is big enough to be the max size catagory. I remember looking in the epic hand book and thinking, "That thing has adult white dragons perched on it like little baby finches, no way it is only 'Collosal'." Of course that is ridiculously big but hey mountains are pretty big and sometime you want monsters as big as mountains. Hey, if you need it to lift starships try making it bigger with less strength, minimum size collosal so it doesn't look so absurd lifting something so big. (it'll still be mind bogglingly crazy to look at) What do you guys and gals think, 'Titanic' a good name for the next biggest size catagory past collosal? (still not big enough though)
Disme 08-07-05, 02:15 AM	An eye for an eye and the whole world is blind. *pulls out pencil* Who's first?
Tenzhi 08-07-05, 03:16 AM	As a side note I don't think 'Collosal' is big enough to be the max size catagory. Neither did the writers of Dragonmech. They created categories above Colossal though they didn't get creative with names - it's simply Colossal+ and Colossal++ (I don't recall if they went beyond that or not).
Sulaco 08-07-05, 01:59 PM	Ignore.
BeyondFated 08-07-05, 02:31 PM	I said i got it, nice to see help when thier isn't a problem :rolleyes: . I must wonder, if you were able to solve your problem all by your little ol' self, why did you ask us obviously inferior people for help? You, the great and all-knowing Farealmer, in your infinite wisdom and knowledge, who can solve his own ordeals, shouldn't need to petition for aid from lesser being such as ourselves. Perhaps you felt pity for the simpletons such as we, that you would have us believe that we could console such a great man such as yourself. Oh thank you, from the bottom of my heart, thank you! --- (For those who are less intelligent than the great Farealmer, the above is filled biting sarcasm... also, unlike Sulaco, I am not above this petty nonsense)
WizO_Cat 08-07-05, 02:33 PM	Ok, let's keep the posts on the subject matter of the thread, not other guests. If the guest-targeted posts continue, I'm going to close the thread and send out Official Warns to the offenders on both sides of the argument. Consider this your friendly reminder.