Dead Bodies? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Dead Bodies? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
SirCaran
10-22-05, 04:48 PM How much damage could a dead body take befor it is destroyed.
Alexion
10-22-05, 06:34 PM If u are a player ask the dm, but this will let your players know :D

If your the dm then make it up, i would say around 15-20 points oh hp but that would only be for level 1, so u would have to imprimise on other levels :)
also i would say the items on his body would not be totally destroyed though, so they would still be there, so there would actually be no point in trying to destroy the body to stop the pcs from looting it :D
SirCaran
10-22-05, 06:57 PM no it is more like when the 2nd tank ,next to the monster, drops and the pyro mage wont stop casting fireballs at the monster. and the players would want to res the character
Aurotuli
10-22-05, 07:23 PM I would state that the resultant body has as much hp as the character's Str score (muscle mass) or perhaps their Con score (as it is associated with hit points). They probably only have a hardness of 1 or 2 (add any DR a barbarian has, if the PC is a bbn). Perhaps combine the two scores (Str + Con) and state the body has hardness (ie: DR/-) equal to 1 or 2? Or perhaps half their character level?

No matter which of the above you use, however, several fireballs will likely have destroyed it. I would state they found severely charred remains - a fragmented bone here, perhaps a shard from the skull there, etc. No soft tissues survived, and all surviving bones (only the larger ones) are severely charred - almost charcoal, actually. They will need a Resurrection; Raise Dead is simply not sufficient.
Seeker95
10-22-05, 11:13 PM A dead body (corpse) is an object.

Dragonhide has a hardness of 10 and 10 hit points per inch.
A corpse is not likely to have more hit points than dragonhide.

A typical tree has a hardness of 5 and 150 hit points.
A corpse is not likely to be harder than a typical tree.

So, I'd give a corpse a maximum hardness of 5 and 10 hit points per inch.
Perhaps as many as 15 inches thick. Max hit points to destruction = 150.
Aurotuli
10-23-05, 12:38 AM Which is basically what I said.

Hardness of 2 (+ whatever DR /- the bbn has, if he is a bbn).
HP / Sq inch equal to Str score, Con score, or perhap the two modifiers added together. Or perhaps 5 + Str mod for hp / inch (muscle mass). His inches of thickness I would state as 12 + Str (bulkier muscles increase thickness).

So a ftr with Str 16 falls. Using the above his hardness is 2, his hp is 8/inch, and his width is 15 inches. So he has 120 hp. Fire damage to objects is - if I recall correctly - halved. So a fireball detonates causing perhaps 28 pts of damage (typical for a Sor/Wiz 8). Each time two points are removed due to hardness, leaving 26. However, fire causes only half damage to objects, so only 13 points of damage occurs. (I had forgotten this fact during my prior post). With 120 hp he could easily last through as many as 8 to 9 of these (far more than the pyro mage likely has prepared - or likely needs).

So I would state that the skeleton is perhaps slightly charred but mostly whole, but the softer tissues - while at least half present - will be very well cooked. I don't know if that affects Raise Dead or not, but since most / all of the body is present, it should not be a problem.

However, anything of parchment, cloth, etc on his person is toast. The metal armor's straps are gone, and the metal itself has likely been warped if not slightly slagged off his body due to softening. A forging fire, after all, is only about 3d6 to 4d6 (compared to a campfire of 2d6 or a torch of 1d6). The fireballs were more than enough to damage if not partially melt the armor. This may have caused additional damage (when the softened or molten metal began sloughing off the body).

Just due to the massive damage the corpse likely sustained I would either require a Ressurrection or perhaps require the Raise Dead spell to have some additional troubles (perhaps a fort save (DC 10 + half HD + Con) verse 1 Con loss in addition to the 1 level loss).
Seeker95
10-23-05, 08:09 AM Which is basically what I said. I've re-read what you wrote, and what each of the rest of us wrote, and I'm trying to see how any of the posts could be construed as "basically what you said".

You go on about barbarian corpses with DR. Nobody else mentioned DR on a corpse.
You equate corpse hardness to living body strength. Nobody else mentioned such a relationship.
About the only thing any post has in common with yours is the mention of hardness and hit points.

I'm not saying your opinion is wrong, but rather, that it doesn't seem anything like what someone else said, as your opening statement indicates.
arbanafal
10-23-05, 09:03 AM Meh, too compex for my game.
A corpse is destroyed as soon as the DM says it is. Less headaches.
Verelor
10-23-05, 04:26 PM Ok, here's the quick and dirty solution, it's pretty much a simple equation, basically:

The amount of damage it takes for a body to be destroyed is 3/4 the max hp amount that the character had in life. The character's body has no hardness, but the attacker must succeed on a flat-footed attack to succeed on the attack roll (which means absolutely no reflexive bonuses are applied, since the body is perfectly still, but natural armor and combat armor still protects the body of course). The body would usually be prone, also, I'd think, so don't forget that. I think this is by far the best solution.
Mr. Cheese
10-23-05, 04:40 PM treat the bodies hitpoints as those of a zombie. add or subtract depending on the DM's whim.

(you KNOW it makes sense)
thefighter
10-23-05, 06:58 PM logically and most realistically it would depend on the weapon or magic u are using.
Seeker95
10-23-05, 08:05 PM The amount of damage it takes for a body to be destroyed is 3/4 the max hp amount that the character had in life.I just don't see any relationship between a corpse and the strength of the character it came from. The rising hit points of an adventurer is not because the body becomes tougher. It represents a combination of combat experience, the ability to turn lethal blows into non-lethal ones, willpower and stamina. A corpse has none of those.

Destroying the corpse of a 20th level fighter should take about as much effort as destroying the corpse of a commoner, plus or minus the amount of fat on the corpse. Fat lets the body get hotter as it burns, allowing for a more complete cremation.
Aurotuli
10-23-05, 11:31 PM Bbn DR /- represents an incremental hardness of the body - an alteration of its physical nature that auto-prevents damage in much the same way as hardness. Thus the reason I state it should be added to the hardness of the body (which I would assume to be 1 or 2).

Strength represents the muscle mass. Whether bulky or lean (ie: dense), the higher the strength score, the more muscle mass is present - and thus the more softer tissues (as opposed to bone) is present. HP of an object represents its mass - how much is present to be destroyed. Thus, muscle mass should affect this in some measure.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
SirCaran 10-22-05, 04:48 PM	How much damage could a dead body take befor it is destroyed.
Alexion 10-22-05, 06:34 PM	If u are a player ask the dm, but this will let your players know :D If your the dm then make it up, i would say around 15-20 points oh hp but that would only be for level 1, so u would have to imprimise on other levels :) also i would say the items on his body would not be totally destroyed though, so they would still be there, so there would actually be no point in trying to destroy the body to stop the pcs from looting it :D
SirCaran 10-22-05, 06:57 PM	no it is more like when the 2nd tank ,next to the monster, drops and the pyro mage wont stop casting fireballs at the monster. and the players would want to res the character
Aurotuli 10-22-05, 07:23 PM	I would state that the resultant body has as much hp as the character's Str score (muscle mass) or perhaps their Con score (as it is associated with hit points). They probably only have a hardness of 1 or 2 (add any DR a barbarian has, if the PC is a bbn). Perhaps combine the two scores (Str + Con) and state the body has hardness (ie: DR/-) equal to 1 or 2? Or perhaps half their character level? No matter which of the above you use, however, several fireballs will likely have destroyed it. I would state they found severely charred remains - a fragmented bone here, perhaps a shard from the skull there, etc. No soft tissues survived, and all surviving bones (only the larger ones) are severely charred - almost charcoal, actually. They will need a Resurrection; Raise Dead is simply not sufficient.
Seeker95 10-22-05, 11:13 PM	A dead body (corpse) is an object. Dragonhide has a hardness of 10 and 10 hit points per inch. A corpse is not likely to have more hit points than dragonhide. A typical tree has a hardness of 5 and 150 hit points. A corpse is not likely to be harder than a typical tree. So, I'd give a corpse a maximum hardness of 5 and 10 hit points per inch. Perhaps as many as 15 inches thick. Max hit points to destruction = 150.
Aurotuli 10-23-05, 12:38 AM	Which is basically what I said. Hardness of 2 (+ whatever DR /- the bbn has, if he is a bbn). HP / Sq inch equal to Str score, Con score, or perhap the two modifiers added together. Or perhaps 5 + Str mod for hp / inch (muscle mass). His inches of thickness I would state as 12 + Str (bulkier muscles increase thickness). So a ftr with Str 16 falls. Using the above his hardness is 2, his hp is 8/inch, and his width is 15 inches. So he has 120 hp. Fire damage to objects is - if I recall correctly - halved. So a fireball detonates causing perhaps 28 pts of damage (typical for a Sor/Wiz 8). Each time two points are removed due to hardness, leaving 26. However, fire causes only half damage to objects, so only 13 points of damage occurs. (I had forgotten this fact during my prior post). With 120 hp he could easily last through as many as 8 to 9 of these (far more than the pyro mage likely has prepared - or likely needs). So I would state that the skeleton is perhaps slightly charred but mostly whole, but the softer tissues - while at least half present - will be very well cooked. I don't know if that affects Raise Dead or not, but since most / all of the body is present, it should not be a problem. However, anything of parchment, cloth, etc on his person is toast. The metal armor's straps are gone, and the metal itself has likely been warped if not slightly slagged off his body due to softening. A forging fire, after all, is only about 3d6 to 4d6 (compared to a campfire of 2d6 or a torch of 1d6). The fireballs were more than enough to damage if not partially melt the armor. This may have caused additional damage (when the softened or molten metal began sloughing off the body). Just due to the massive damage the corpse likely sustained I would either require a Ressurrection or perhaps require the Raise Dead spell to have some additional troubles (perhaps a fort save (DC 10 + half HD + Con) verse 1 Con loss in addition to the 1 level loss).
Seeker95 10-23-05, 08:09 AM	Which is basically what I said. I've re-read what you wrote, and what each of the rest of us wrote, and I'm trying to see how any of the posts could be construed as "basically what you said". You go on about barbarian corpses with DR. Nobody else mentioned DR on a corpse. You equate corpse hardness to living body strength. Nobody else mentioned such a relationship. About the only thing any post has in common with yours is the mention of hardness and hit points. I'm not saying your opinion is wrong, but rather, that it doesn't seem anything like what someone else said, as your opening statement indicates.
arbanafal 10-23-05, 09:03 AM	Meh, too compex for my game. A corpse is destroyed as soon as the DM says it is. Less headaches.
Verelor 10-23-05, 04:26 PM	Ok, here's the quick and dirty solution, it's pretty much a simple equation, basically: The amount of damage it takes for a body to be destroyed is 3/4 the max hp amount that the character had in life. The character's body has no hardness, but the attacker must succeed on a flat-footed attack to succeed on the attack roll (which means absolutely no reflexive bonuses are applied, since the body is perfectly still, but natural armor and combat armor still protects the body of course). The body would usually be prone, also, I'd think, so don't forget that. I think this is by far the best solution.
Mr. Cheese 10-23-05, 04:40 PM	treat the bodies hitpoints as those of a zombie. add or subtract depending on the DM's whim. (you KNOW it makes sense)
thefighter 10-23-05, 06:58 PM	logically and most realistically it would depend on the weapon or magic u are using.
Seeker95 10-23-05, 08:05 PM	The amount of damage it takes for a body to be destroyed is 3/4 the max hp amount that the character had in life.I just don't see any relationship between a corpse and the strength of the character it came from. The rising hit points of an adventurer is not because the body becomes tougher. It represents a combination of combat experience, the ability to turn lethal blows into non-lethal ones, willpower and stamina. A corpse has none of those. Destroying the corpse of a 20th level fighter should take about as much effort as destroying the corpse of a commoner, plus or minus the amount of fat on the corpse. Fat lets the body get hotter as it burns, allowing for a more complete cremation.
Aurotuli 10-23-05, 11:31 PM	Bbn DR /- represents an incremental hardness of the body - an alteration of its physical nature that auto-prevents damage in much the same way as hardness. Thus the reason I state it should be added to the hardness of the body (which I would assume to be 1 or 2). Strength represents the muscle mass. Whether bulky or lean (ie: dense), the higher the strength score, the more muscle mass is present - and thus the more softer tissues (as opposed to bone) is present. HP of an object represents its mass - how much is present to be destroyed. Thus, muscle mass should affect this in some measure.