Dead PC and xp question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Dead PC and xp question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Troll-Magus
02-14-06, 03:45 PM Question: Character died in battle, at what time does he get xp for that battle? (I know the raise dead rules already - pg 171 of the PH)

He dies, but still gets xp since he contributed to the party winning though he died? (and the xp is lost with the level loss....)

He dies, is raised (loses level) and now colllects xp from the battle in which he died?

Is this specified anywhere in the PH, DMG, errata, or FAQ?
CryoSilver
02-14-06, 04:31 PM Page 37 of the DMG lays it out; if the PC took part, he gains XP.
Thelandrach
02-14-06, 04:35 PM In keeping with the spirit of giving the character experience, it would seem mean to give it to him, then take it away because he lost a level. So, after all is said and done and he's been raised and his experience has been dropped to a certain point, he gets the experience.
Seeker95
02-14-06, 04:45 PM He gains the experience immediately*.
He loses experience at the time of the casting of the spell.

*Immediately doesn't matter whether you define it as: "the moment before death"
"the moment of death"
"the moment combat ends"In all three cases, the experience is awarded long before the spell is cast.
AlexVADnD
02-14-06, 05:50 PM Interesting question.

I was about to say that it doesn't matter all that much, since Raise Dead will drop him one level regardless of how much XP he has, but then I got to thinking...

Suppose a player goes into combat needing only 200 XP to level up. Further suppose that this player had earned those 200 XP almost immediately as the combat commenced. However, before he can undergo the "leveling up process (ie rest, study, get out of combat, whatever) the combat continues and the player dies.

If he had been 4th level at the beginning of the combat, then had earned the XP to leveling up to 5th, but dies and is later raised, is he 3rd level or 4th level?

I admit this is a very rare and unusual circumstance but I imagine it would matter a great deal to the player in question.
Nom
02-14-06, 08:47 PM He gains the experience immediately*.
He loses experience at the time of the casting of the spell.

*Immediately doesn't matter whether you define it as: "the moment before death"
"the moment of death"
"the moment combat ends"In all three cases, the experience is awarded long before the spell is cast.Except that this is exactly the opposite of what DMG pg 41 says.

(1) DMG pg 41 assumes that XP awards are granted either at the start or end of a session (DMG pg 36). So the question is not when the PC "earns" the XP (that's irrelevant), but when he is granted it ("gains it"?).

(2) DMG pg 41 explicitly states that the PC dies, is raised, suffers XP loss, and is then credited with any XP awarded while they were dead (in that order).

So, a level 4 character with 9,800 XP (200 XP from level 5) who died and was subsequently raised would be raised with 4,500 XP (half way between levels 3 and 4), and would then be given any XP awards that they missed out on due to being dead. As far as I can tell, the value of these awards is based on the level at the time of the encounter, not the level after being raised.
Seeker95
02-14-06, 09:10 PM (2) DMG pg 41 explicitly states that the PC dies, is raised, suffers XP loss, and is then credited with any XP awarded while they were dead (in that order).Nom's right.

So, if you gained enough experience points that you would have levelled up, you're doubly screwed. Moral of this story: Don't die when you're close to a level.

And with the entry on page 41, looks like I'll be house ruling that away and going with what I presented above.
Nom
02-15-06, 08:46 AM Nom's right.

So, if you gained enough experience points that you would have levelled up, you're doubly screwed. Moral of this story: Don't die when you're close to a level.Doubly? You lose the level (losing lots of XP) and then get the award. It's not as if you lose the level and forfeit the award.
And with the entry on page 41, looks like I'll be house ruling that away and going with what I presented above.The problem with doing it the other way is that a character who doesn't earn enough to level forfeits the XP. I'm on 8000 XP. I earn 1500 XP but die. I go to 4,500 XP.

By the book, you go from 8000 XP to 4,500 XP and then to 6,000 XP. Yeah, it would be nicer to go from 9000 XP to 10,500 XP and then to 8000 XP, but that requires that you are given the XP before you die, and if that was the case then you might not have died because you'd be higher level than you actually were when you died.

Ultimately, the problem is nothing to do with the deferred award and everything to do with the fact that the "half way through previous level" creates a serious step effect. If you have just levelled then you lose half a level of XP. If you are just about to level then you lose a level and a half.

A better ruling would be "an equivalent proportion through the previous level", though that's messy so lets just say "the previous level's worth of XP". Sure, this means that if you are just about to level then you will not actually lose a level, and if you have just levelled then you will lose more than otherwise, but at least it is approximately linear for all situations.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Troll-Magus 02-14-06, 03:45 PM	Question: Character died in battle, at what time does he get xp for that battle? (I know the raise dead rules already - pg 171 of the PH) He dies, but still gets xp since he contributed to the party winning though he died? (and the xp is lost with the level loss....) He dies, is raised (loses level) and now colllects xp from the battle in which he died? Is this specified anywhere in the PH, DMG, errata, or FAQ?
CryoSilver 02-14-06, 04:31 PM	Page 37 of the DMG lays it out; if the PC took part, he gains XP.
Thelandrach 02-14-06, 04:35 PM	In keeping with the spirit of giving the character experience, it would seem mean to give it to him, then take it away because he lost a level. So, after all is said and done and he's been raised and his experience has been dropped to a certain point, he gets the experience.
Seeker95 02-14-06, 04:45 PM	He gains the experience immediately. He loses experience at the time of the casting of the spell. Immediately doesn't matter whether you define it as: "the moment before death" "the moment of death" "the moment combat ends"In all three cases, the experience is awarded long before the spell is cast.
AlexVADnD 02-14-06, 05:50 PM	Interesting question. I was about to say that it doesn't matter all that much, since Raise Dead will drop him one level regardless of how much XP he has, but then I got to thinking... Suppose a player goes into combat needing only 200 XP to level up. Further suppose that this player had earned those 200 XP almost immediately as the combat commenced. However, before he can undergo the "leveling up process (ie rest, study, get out of combat, whatever) the combat continues and the player dies. If he had been 4th level at the beginning of the combat, then had earned the XP to leveling up to 5th, but dies and is later raised, is he 3rd level or 4th level? I admit this is a very rare and unusual circumstance but I imagine it would matter a great deal to the player in question.
Nom 02-14-06, 08:47 PM	He gains the experience immediately. He loses experience at the time of the casting of the spell. Immediately doesn't matter whether you define it as: "the moment before death" "the moment of death" "the moment combat ends"In all three cases, the experience is awarded long before the spell is cast.Except that this is exactly the opposite of what DMG pg 41 says. (1) DMG pg 41 assumes that XP awards are granted either at the start or end of a session (DMG pg 36). So the question is not when the PC "earns" the XP (that's irrelevant), but when he is granted it ("gains it"?). (2) DMG pg 41 explicitly states that the PC dies, is raised, suffers XP loss, and is then credited with any XP awarded while they were dead (in that order). So, a level 4 character with 9,800 XP (200 XP from level 5) who died and was subsequently raised would be raised with 4,500 XP (half way between levels 3 and 4), and would then be given any XP awards that they missed out on due to being dead. As far as I can tell, the value of these awards is based on the level at the time of the encounter, not the level after being raised.
Seeker95 02-14-06, 09:10 PM	(2) DMG pg 41 explicitly states that the PC dies, is raised, suffers XP loss, and is then credited with any XP awarded while they were dead (in that order).Nom's right. So, if you gained enough experience points that you would have levelled up, you're doubly screwed. Moral of this story: Don't die when you're close to a level. And with the entry on page 41, looks like I'll be house ruling that away and going with what I presented above.
Nom 02-15-06, 08:46 AM	Nom's right. So, if you gained enough experience points that you would have levelled up, you're doubly screwed. Moral of this story: Don't die when you're close to a level.Doubly? You lose the level (losing lots of XP) and then get the award. It's not as if you lose the level and forfeit the award. And with the entry on page 41, looks like I'll be house ruling that away and going with what I presented above.The problem with doing it the other way is that a character who doesn't earn enough to level forfeits the XP. I'm on 8000 XP. I earn 1500 XP but die. I go to 4,500 XP. By the book, you go from 8000 XP to 4,500 XP and then to 6,000 XP. Yeah, it would be nicer to go from 9000 XP to 10,500 XP and then to 8000 XP, but that requires that you are given the XP before you die, and if that was the case then you might not have died because you'd be higher level than you actually were when you died. Ultimately, the problem is nothing to do with the deferred award and everything to do with the fact that the "half way through previous level" creates a serious step effect. If you have just levelled then you lose half a level of XP. If you are just about to level then you lose a level and a half. A better ruling would be "an equivalent proportion through the previous level", though that's messy so lets just say "the previous level's worth of XP". Sure, this means that if you are just about to level then you will not actually lose a level, and if you have just levelled then you will lose more than otherwise, but at least it is approximately linear for all situations.