death in dnd [Archive] - Wizards Community

death in dnd [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
nooberpie
01-07-06, 12:59 AM hey, i bought the basic game and me and my 2 friends were playin and in the advanced rulebook that came with the basic game (im going to buy the players handbook next week. i dont got the money) it doesnt explain death. One of my friends died and i didnt kno what to do.
Dantano
01-07-06, 01:14 AM unless he can be raised then he's just dead. He'll have to make a new character
Edymnion
01-07-06, 01:20 AM The character is dead. As in, not alive. Unless the party has access to some fairly high level magic to bring them back to life, there is nothing to do about it other than make up a new character.

Its part of the game, characters die.
Tempest Stormwind
01-07-06, 02:53 AM The basic game doesn't define death well enough, but that's because the lowest-level effects to restore life are all about 5th level spells or higher (meaning character level 9, minimum, before they start showing up), and they're not trivial to cast either.

Sometimes, you can bandy up the cash before level 9 to pay for a cleric to revive an ally, but that's campaign-dependent (in Eberron, for instance, no NPC is willing to cast such powerful magic for mere gold, but a few might do it if you undertake a quest and foot the bill for the material components needed. Emphasis on MIGHT.).

But, at the levels involved in the basic game, dead means dead. There are no phoenix downs in D&D.

By the way, for more seasoned players, in an odd quirk in the rules, "death" merely is defined as:
The character’s hit points are reduced to -10, his Constitution drops to 0, or he is killed outright by a spell or effect. The character’s soul leaves his body. Dead characters cannot benefit from normal or magical healing, but they can be restored to life via magic. A dead body decays normally unless magically preserved, but magic that restores a dead character to life also restores the body either to full health or to its condition at the time of death (depending on the spell or device). Either way, resurrected characters need not worry about rigor mortis, decomposition, and other conditions that affect dead bodies.
The quirk is as follows: Where in there does it explicitly say that dead creatures can't take actions?

I came up with that independently after watching the Xombie series of films (which are quite excellent, BTW), but I later discovered that it was a well-known and oft-joked-about thing on the CO boards.

But back on topic, yes, dead means dead. He's passed on. That character is no more. He has ceased to be. He's expired and gone to meet his maker. He's a stiff. Bereft of life, he rests in peace. His metabolic processes are now history. He's off the twig. He's kicked the bucket, he's shuffled off his mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisible. That, friend, is an Ex-Character.

Welcome to the wide world of "roll up another one."
red_scare87
01-07-06, 03:00 AM But back on topic, yes, dead means dead. He's passed on. That character is no more. He has ceased to be. He's expired and gone to meet his maker. He's a stiff. Bereft of life, he rests in peace. His metabolic processes are now history. He's off the twig. He's kicked the bucket, he's shuffled off his mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisible. That, friend, is an Ex-Character.

Hmmm...a Flying Circus reference...

I knew there was a reason I liked you. :P
Acev
01-07-06, 03:11 AM His soul leaves his body. How is he supposed to take an action?

DM: Rown died last turn. What does he do this turn James?

James: He rots.

DM: How exciting! Karen what does Llewelyn do?
Tempest Stormwind
01-07-06, 03:16 AM His soul leaves his body. How is he supposed to take an action?

DM: Rown died last turn. What does he do this turn James?

James: He rots.

DM: How exciting! Karen what does Llewelyn do?
Disclaimer: I am very much aware of what death is meant to mean.

Anyway:

1) Where does it say that the soul is what powers the actions? Usually, it's the body (and if the soul were the thing taking the action, then kalashtar and other creatures with two souls would be terribly overpowered).

2) Outsiders, like the Aasimar and Tiefling, have their soul and their body combined (they are not distinct). When they die, their soul doesn't leave the body, it just ceases to be, since the body (whichwas part of it) is now dead. This explains why outsiders cannot be resurrected -- their soul was killed along with their body.

There is absolutely nothing printed that will prevent a dead character from taking actions, beyond implied common sense. It's a quirk in the rules that I find strangely funny, nothing more.
Milo HoBo
01-07-06, 05:52 AM Doesn't reincarnation come sooner? If so that would come about 7th level for a druid if it's a 4th level spell. Just something to keep in mind.
NinjaE
01-07-06, 07:30 AM Actually, tieflings, aasimar, zenythri, tuladhara, chaonds, genasi and other outsider/mortal mixes are native outsiders, who can be raised.
Acev
01-07-06, 11:21 AM 1) Where does it say that the soul is what powers the actions? Usually, it's the body (and if the soul were the thing taking the action, then kalashtar and other creatures with two souls would be terribly overpowered).

In the Raise dead spell it specifically says that a soul needs to be free and willing. If the soul is unwilling the spell fails automatically. To me that means the soul runs the show and not the body. So no soul, no actions.

As for the two souls thing, why would they be overpowered? Two souls making decisions but only one body executing them. When ever two souls are present in one body they need to cooperate (like the kalashtar) or fight for dominance in order to take actions. How is that overpowered? They only take as many actions as everyone else.
Tempest Stormwind
01-07-06, 11:38 AM In the Raise dead spell it specifically says that a soul needs to be free and willing. If the soul is unwilling the spell fails automatically. To me that means the soul runs the show and not the body. So no soul, no actions.That only applies for raising. Where does it say that the soul controls the show when it's in the body? And where does it say that the body doesn't?

As for the two souls thing, why would they be overpowered? Two souls making decisions but only one body executing them. When ever two souls are present in one body they need to cooperate (like the kalashtar) or fight for dominance in order to take actions. How is that overpowered? They only take as many actions as everyone else.Purely mental actions, like psionic manifesting or spell-like abilities. I chose Kalashtar because they're well-known and have Favored Class:Psion.

Milo: good point on Reincarnation, I'd forgotten about it.
Araciel
01-07-06, 11:47 AM this is getting off topic...but i'll add something in there. if the character has no soul, why would he WANT to do anything?? if we look at other forms of fantasy, like with a vampire or the like, his alignment would change to evil and he would start killing. or if he were really dead with no soul maybe he would become a mindless zombie and kill the other party members. but the fact that D&D is supposed to have a mainly real-world universe, (that is, gravity still works, winter means snow instead of falling gumdrops, and so forth) that dead means you ARE DEAD...like in the real world, your character cannot take actions. just because a book doesn't say you can't do something doesn't mean you can. it doesn't expressly say, for instance, in any book, that a character can't urinate and choose to make it come out as orange juice instead of urine, but it's ASSUMED that you can't do it because you can't do it in the real world.

the end
Araciel
01-07-06, 11:54 AM oh and to answer the basic game question....

it doesn't say what to do if someone dies because it's not designed for that eventuality, at least it wouldn't appear so. i have it too, it would seem as though it's meant to be played with a full party (all four adventurers) and that they are expected to overcome all the obstacles with little or no risk. though the fact that the game uses dice means that this can all go horribly wrong if someone rolls a 20 at the proper time.

the best advice i would give is to say that the character is taken to the church in town and raised by the priest. you being the dm could say that the priest was actually one of his childhood friends, and though the character was not a member of the church, the priest did it at great personal risk of being expelled from the temple. this could lead to other adventures, perhaps trying to atone or a change in faith for the npc....

the game has endless possibilites, welcome to D&D!
912462
01-08-06, 01:37 AM please visit dungeonhall.suddenlaunch3.com for more D&D fun. this is a similar board to wizards dnd board but it was made by my friend please visit and sign up :D

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
nooberpie 01-07-06, 12:59 AM	hey, i bought the basic game and me and my 2 friends were playin and in the advanced rulebook that came with the basic game (im going to buy the players handbook next week. i dont got the money) it doesnt explain death. One of my friends died and i didnt kno what to do.
Dantano 01-07-06, 01:14 AM	unless he can be raised then he's just dead. He'll have to make a new character
Edymnion 01-07-06, 01:20 AM	The character is dead. As in, not alive. Unless the party has access to some fairly high level magic to bring them back to life, there is nothing to do about it other than make up a new character. Its part of the game, characters die.
Tempest Stormwind 01-07-06, 02:53 AM	The basic game doesn't define death well enough, but that's because the lowest-level effects to restore life are all about 5th level spells or higher (meaning character level 9, minimum, before they start showing up), and they're not trivial to cast either. Sometimes, you can bandy up the cash before level 9 to pay for a cleric to revive an ally, but that's campaign-dependent (in Eberron, for instance, no NPC is willing to cast such powerful magic for mere gold, but a few might do it if you undertake a quest and foot the bill for the material components needed. Emphasis on MIGHT.). But, at the levels involved in the basic game, dead means dead. There are no phoenix downs in D&D. By the way, for more seasoned players, in an odd quirk in the rules, "death" merely is defined as: The character’s hit points are reduced to -10, his Constitution drops to 0, or he is killed outright by a spell or effect. The character’s soul leaves his body. Dead characters cannot benefit from normal or magical healing, but they can be restored to life via magic. A dead body decays normally unless magically preserved, but magic that restores a dead character to life also restores the body either to full health or to its condition at the time of death (depending on the spell or device). Either way, resurrected characters need not worry about rigor mortis, decomposition, and other conditions that affect dead bodies. The quirk is as follows: Where in there does it explicitly say that dead creatures can't take actions? I came up with that independently after watching the Xombie series of films (which are quite excellent, BTW), but I later discovered that it was a well-known and oft-joked-about thing on the CO boards. But back on topic, yes, dead means dead. He's passed on. That character is no more. He has ceased to be. He's expired and gone to meet his maker. He's a stiff. Bereft of life, he rests in peace. His metabolic processes are now history. He's off the twig. He's kicked the bucket, he's shuffled off his mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisible. That, friend, is an Ex-Character. Welcome to the wide world of "roll up another one."
red_scare87 01-07-06, 03:00 AM	But back on topic, yes, dead means dead. He's passed on. That character is no more. He has ceased to be. He's expired and gone to meet his maker. He's a stiff. Bereft of life, he rests in peace. His metabolic processes are now history. He's off the twig. He's kicked the bucket, he's shuffled off his mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisible. That, friend, is an Ex-Character. Hmmm...a Flying Circus reference... I knew there was a reason I liked you. :P
Acev 01-07-06, 03:11 AM	His soul leaves his body. How is he supposed to take an action? DM: Rown died last turn. What does he do this turn James? James: He rots. DM: How exciting! Karen what does Llewelyn do?
Tempest Stormwind 01-07-06, 03:16 AM	His soul leaves his body. How is he supposed to take an action? DM: Rown died last turn. What does he do this turn James? James: He rots. DM: How exciting! Karen what does Llewelyn do? Disclaimer: I am very much aware of what death is meant to mean. Anyway: 1) Where does it say that the soul is what powers the actions? Usually, it's the body (and if the soul were the thing taking the action, then kalashtar and other creatures with two souls would be terribly overpowered). 2) Outsiders, like the Aasimar and Tiefling, have their soul and their body combined (they are not distinct). When they die, their soul doesn't leave the body, it just ceases to be, since the body (whichwas part of it) is now dead. This explains why outsiders cannot be resurrected -- their soul was killed along with their body. There is absolutely nothing printed that will prevent a dead character from taking actions, beyond implied common sense. It's a quirk in the rules that I find strangely funny, nothing more.
Milo HoBo 01-07-06, 05:52 AM	Doesn't reincarnation come sooner? If so that would come about 7th level for a druid if it's a 4th level spell. Just something to keep in mind.
NinjaE 01-07-06, 07:30 AM	Actually, tieflings, aasimar, zenythri, tuladhara, chaonds, genasi and other outsider/mortal mixes are native outsiders, who can be raised.
Acev 01-07-06, 11:21 AM	1) Where does it say that the soul is what powers the actions? Usually, it's the body (and if the soul were the thing taking the action, then kalashtar and other creatures with two souls would be terribly overpowered). In the Raise dead spell it specifically says that a soul needs to be free and willing. If the soul is unwilling the spell fails automatically. To me that means the soul runs the show and not the body. So no soul, no actions. As for the two souls thing, why would they be overpowered? Two souls making decisions but only one body executing them. When ever two souls are present in one body they need to cooperate (like the kalashtar) or fight for dominance in order to take actions. How is that overpowered? They only take as many actions as everyone else.
Tempest Stormwind 01-07-06, 11:38 AM	In the Raise dead spell it specifically says that a soul needs to be free and willing. If the soul is unwilling the spell fails automatically. To me that means the soul runs the show and not the body. So no soul, no actions.That only applies for raising. Where does it say that the soul controls the show when it's in the body? And where does it say that the body doesn't? As for the two souls thing, why would they be overpowered? Two souls making decisions but only one body executing them. When ever two souls are present in one body they need to cooperate (like the kalashtar) or fight for dominance in order to take actions. How is that overpowered? They only take as many actions as everyone else.Purely mental actions, like psionic manifesting or spell-like abilities. I chose Kalashtar because they're well-known and have Favored Class:Psion. Milo: good point on Reincarnation, I'd forgotten about it.
Araciel 01-07-06, 11:47 AM	this is getting off topic...but i'll add something in there. if the character has no soul, why would he WANT to do anything?? if we look at other forms of fantasy, like with a vampire or the like, his alignment would change to evil and he would start killing. or if he were really dead with no soul maybe he would become a mindless zombie and kill the other party members. but the fact that D&D is supposed to have a mainly real-world universe, (that is, gravity still works, winter means snow instead of falling gumdrops, and so forth) that dead means you ARE DEAD...like in the real world, your character cannot take actions. just because a book doesn't say you can't do something doesn't mean you can. it doesn't expressly say, for instance, in any book, that a character can't urinate and choose to make it come out as orange juice instead of urine, but it's ASSUMED that you can't do it because you can't do it in the real world. the end
Araciel 01-07-06, 11:54 AM	oh and to answer the basic game question.... it doesn't say what to do if someone dies because it's not designed for that eventuality, at least it wouldn't appear so. i have it too, it would seem as though it's meant to be played with a full party (all four adventurers) and that they are expected to overcome all the obstacles with little or no risk. though the fact that the game uses dice means that this can all go horribly wrong if someone rolls a 20 at the proper time. the best advice i would give is to say that the character is taken to the church in town and raised by the priest. you being the dm could say that the priest was actually one of his childhood friends, and though the character was not a member of the church, the priest did it at great personal risk of being expelled from the temple. this could lead to other adventures, perhaps trying to atone or a change in faith for the npc.... the game has endless possibilites, welcome to D&D!
912462 01-08-06, 01:37 AM	please visit dungeonhall.suddenlaunch3.com for more D&D fun. this is a similar board to wizards dnd board but it was made by my friend please visit and sign up :D