Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Dragonlover 01-14-06, 08:23 PM	Ok, this was brought up by my girlfriend, who is having trouble remembering the rules, a fact not helped by her lack of a PHB. She's getting one soon, and plans to highlight sections that will be helpful, but she was wondering why no-one in our gaming group did the same thing. The best I could come up with was that all of us had been raised not to write on books, so I was wondering what everyone elses approach to this was. Do you highlight sections of your DnD books, or are they as pristine as when they came out of the shrinkwrap? Dragonlover
Darkuwa 01-14-06, 08:29 PM	My php has a huge crack on the front cover, from when i tried to lower my intelligence to be equivelent to the rest of the players. all the other are pristine.
q'afuu 01-14-06, 08:30 PM	Post-it notes. Instantly attract attention, no permanent damage. I don't consider it heresy to write in a book myself, but the 3E rulebooks don't lend themselves well to that in the first place, if you ask me. Not a lot of whitespace.
bal3000 01-14-06, 08:30 PM	Highlighting works for me. It seperates the "what the rule is" from the "why the rule is in place" I knew somebody once who used the tear the pages from his rule books and place the relevent ( to him ) pages in pocket protecters and then into a leverarch folder. cut out a LOT of fluff but it's not for everyone.
Elven Doritos 01-14-06, 08:34 PM	I'm not a big fan of defacing D&D books for a few reasons: 1) They're expensive! I'm not going to shell out 30-40 bucks a pop just to mark it up so that three weeks later I can lament about that decision. 2) Sometimes I use my books as IC props. That may sound kind of silly, but actually holding a Book of Vile Darkness and being able to thumb through it enhances the game a bit. 3) I don't much see the point. I keep a short list of important page numbers for new books, but after a while I can find virtually anything in any book quickly. But that's me. If she's buying the book, she can do as she wants. :D -Elven Doritos
Seeker95 01-14-06, 09:34 PM	I don't recommend highlighting only because of relevance. Highlighting is good for things you want to reference "next time". But rarely do you need the highlighting more than once. It is much better for "study notes" for a cram, or to quickly find something you need to read out loud at your next meeting. I recommend post-it notes instead.
serow_#R 01-14-06, 09:58 PM	whatever you do don't write in pencil if u have to write in pencil, don't make a mistake coz erasing it will erase the printed ink as well :weep:
Edymnion 01-14-06, 10:50 PM	I labled my PHB. Post-It makes these really cool little sticker tab things. Half of them are the traditional post-it glue tab, the other half is a colored tab that you can write on. I made up a lable for the first page of every chapter, and tabs for the spells section so I could turn right to the A's, the B's, the C's, etc. I even color coded it. The green tabs are chapters, the blue tabs are spells, and then the red tabs are important sections I check a lot (like my favorite classes in the PHB, or the character wealth table in the DMG). Makes finding stuff MUCH easier, and should I ever need to, I can just peel them right back off, and no damage done. And yeah, I was one of those people taught never to write in a book, and I really hate it when I find a book someone else has written in. Mainly its because I think good books are something that should be enjoyed for generations (many of my books came from my father, and several of those came from his father). Writing in a book just makes it worse for the next person to read it after you, IMO.
Tyler Do'Urden 01-14-06, 11:43 PM	I virtually never touch my actual books anymore for want of a Search function. The SRD and Ctrl+F have kinda spoiled my ability to quickly thumb through a manual. The only time I really need them is at games and those only happen twice a week. But they do have some wear on them; most of the corners are kind of worn from being repeatedly thrust into a backpack. But there's no hilighting or pencil marks or anything like that in any of them. I don't do that with text books either because something in me parses these objects as valueable, either for collecting or eventual resale.
Gnome_Dragon_Disciple 01-15-06, 12:37 AM	I do NOT write in my books. I refuse to even write my name on the cover because I don't want to ruin them. But I do use my books. A lot. So much, in fact, that the bindings on many are falling apart from being left open on a table too long, the corners are worn from transport, and many of the covers are dented from being shuffled through. Couple with the fact that I don't have any form of shelving for them and have to keep them in a rigid wheeled duffelbag, none of them are in "mint" condition ;_; In fact, my first PHB, which has served me well now for three years, probably only has another two years of use in it. I will likely frame the whole book and buy a replacement for the table, taking my first out of its frame only to take to cons and get it signed by the various members of the Pantheon of D&D (Greenwood, Baker, Cordell, etc.). But I do revere my books. The wear from extensive use (ranging between one session and three sessions a week) is inevitable, but writing on them would be... heresy. Even houserules that I never vary from and directly counteract a rule in the books I keep on a separate printout instead of daring to defile their glorious pages...
Ranger REG 01-15-06, 01:01 AM	Do you highlight sections of your DnD books, or are they as pristine as when they came out of the shrinkwrap? Well, I don't know about keeping it pristine, but I do not deliberately mark in or on my books. To each his or her own.
Tuah 01-15-06, 11:02 AM	I try not to let anything happen to my books. If I'm previewing an unbought book, I don't open it more than a 35 degree angle! :D
Particle 01-15-06, 11:57 AM	Print out the most relevant parts of the rules out of the SRD. I think for the beginning, she wont need the complete rules, just the parts that are important to her character. There she can highlight all she want. Otherwise: Its her book. If she thinks highlighting will help her, she can do it. Since, well, its her book. My books are used but unmarked. I would only make short notes about errata or maybe important crossreferences. But so far, I instead inserted a sheet of paper with such kind of notes.
Scipion Emilien 01-15-06, 01:50 PM	I personnally don't like to write into my book, those books cost a little, and it is ugly when you borrow a book and it is highlight so much. Personnally, i take a spiral notebook that i bring along my D&D book. I put into this notebook all the page of reference, SRD pages that i have print, things i find interesting etc... But as everyone say, ultmatitely it is his book, so she do what she want with it.
Dave Stebbins 01-15-06, 02:10 PM	I don't have any problem with writing in my books. I paid for them and they would not have much resale value if I ever decided to try and dump them. I used to have the "never deface books" attitude, but then I realized that in 25+ years of gaming I never part with any of my books, so why not put important stuff in there where it belongs. I go through the errata and write the rules-important stuff directly into the passages in the book where they apply. This involves writing (in ink) in the margins and adding arrows to show where the margin text goes. -Dave
tahok 01-15-06, 02:16 PM	I like to add tabs in my game books. That way I can find a rule or feat or skill and make sure its used correctly. I dont mind defacing my books this way only because the're ment to be abused
Neodymium 01-15-06, 02:18 PM	sometimes i'll write in minor errata. For the most part i don't write in my books, but i don't have a good reason not to. It's just something i don't really do. Probably because of the whole 'expensive book' thing. Maybe i will make a conscious effort to make notes in my books. As long as it doesn't get too cluttered and you don't plan on selling it, i don't see a problem.
Seeker95 01-15-06, 04:51 PM	I personally don't like to write into my book, those books cost a little, and it is ugly when you borrow a book and it is highlight so much.Assuming these three statements are related since they are in the same sentence... What others like or do not like in their books has nothing to do with what I do or do not like in mine. If I have to borrow someone else's book, I don't care what they did to it. It's not mine. And if they don't like what I did in my book, I sure as heck don't care to let them borrow it again if they want to complain about it.
celtredleg 01-15-06, 05:05 PM	I dont in my DND books, but only because of the paper in them.. In other games where the paper is easy to write and erase, I sometimes use the monsters right out of the book, writing in the HP loss and everthing. After the encounter, just erase it.
kalmarjan 01-15-06, 05:47 PM	This is a funny conversation. I have been playing D&D far too long it seems. I know that this dates me, but I had the red boxed set wayyyy back when. I have a mixed approach to this; I sometimes write in my books, sometimes not. If any of you think there is a resale value for your books, keep dreaming. From someone who has had the basic boxed sets (All of them!), AD&D 1e, AD&D 2e, 3rd and 3.5e of the game. I have spent thousands on this hobby over the years, and I have yet to see a return on my investment! LOL If you feel like writing in the books, go ahead. If someone obstracizes you for it, well, that's their problem. I have written my revisions to modules right in the pages, I have used the sticky notes, the tabs, the sheets of paper etc. All of it really does not make a difference. I will tell you though, it is now 20 years later and I am thumbing through my "expert" d&d set getting a kick out of what I have written in there. Also the module "Isle of Dread", the stuff I wrote in there is classic! If you are keeping your books in pristine condition. Good for you. Maybe twenty years down the road you'll be kicking yourself though. Cheers, and thanks for making me smile today. Sandeman
Dragonlover 01-15-06, 06:52 PM	Woah, wasn't expecting such a massive response. I personally have written my name in the inside covers of my books, and my PHB has a bunch of doodles in the cover, but apart from that mine are clean. Dragonlover
kallisti23 01-15-06, 08:16 PM	I don't write in my D&D books at all because I'm not only an RPG player, I'm a collector as well and I want my books to be in good condition. Unfortunately for me, my dad (who DMed for me and the rest of the family when I was a kid) marked up my first edition Monster Manual. It would be in mint condition if he hadn't done that, and that really burns me up :mad:
Archangel_James 01-15-06, 08:57 PM	Today I bought a 1st Ed. DMG, and in the magic item section, the titles of the sections of Wands, Rods, Scrolls, Potions, etc. were all highlighted because those titles are not clearly marked. If I were using the book in a game, and not just reading it for fun, those marks would be very handy. I write my name on the inside front cover, and I wrote in the errata for XPH. I might start highlighting as well. The books are both form and function. While form should be left untouched, fuction can only be improved by modification.
CryoSilver 01-15-06, 09:12 PM	I never ever ever write in any of my books, D&D and otherwise. I'm not sure why; it just really skeives me out to have marks in my books. I use lots and lots of sticky notes though, and often tuck in bits of notebook paper with scribbled notes.
DerkathTheMighty 01-15-06, 11:24 PM	me... i don't write in any of my books, instead i went and bought a laptop after saving for a couple of months. I now can set up tables and character sheets and all the notes i need... and the best part is... it weighs about the same as one PHB
Gilfalas_Elaandrin 01-16-06, 03:52 AM	Let me answer your question by replying this: I still have my original first edition PHB, in near mint condition and it was HEAVILY used, that I got in 1981. I covered it with clear adhesive shelving paper and it was like an armored skin for it. Additionally, back then, hardcoveres were not only glued together but were on heavier paper stock as well as better stiched before being bound. It simply was MADE better than the books are today. But no I never write in any book. I never even wrote in my school books. Books are almost sacred to me.
Kalanth 01-16-06, 03:58 AM	I have not even torn out the comment cards in them. I mean, it's a freaking comment card and my mind instantly says, "If you remove that it will depretiate the resale value." God. . . I need to stop collecting comics.
Am_I_Still_Unconscious 01-16-06, 04:18 AM	Let me ask you this... would she write in a bible (or similar holy text, to be politically correct?)
Seeker95 01-16-06, 08:55 AM	I'm a collector as well:rofl: A collector tends to recognize an extrinsic value as well as intrinsic in the objects being collected. A packrat keeps all the stuff s/he can. D&D books dop not "hold value" much less gain any. There are no D&D "collectors" -- but plenty of packrats.
Seldarin 01-16-06, 08:59 AM	I never write in books!
kalmarjan 01-16-06, 09:06 AM	A quick check on EBay shows a 1st edition DMG going for the massive rate of.... 3.00$ - and 0 bids. Note: This DMG is in mint condition. The person had kept it in pristine condition. He is also a self proclaimed "collector". Point is: There is no resale value. These are not magic cards. Even magic cards only appeal to a select bunch of collectors. Also, only the truly rare cards sell for anything worth listing. Now, if your DMG had Gary Gygax, David Zeb Cook's or someone else's signature on it, and in pristine condition, it may be worth something. Otherwise, you have a really nice book that 2 million other people already have. So, if you want to write in it, by all means... go ahead. Use the book for what it was intended for. PLAYING! D&D for 20+ years......................A couple thousand dollars Minis for D&D.............................Another couple thousand dollars Price of books after 20 years........Worthless Countless hours playing D&D.........Priceless Sandeman
Gallameed 01-16-06, 09:51 AM	The books are there to be used, if you care so much about them getting little scrapes and tears then buy two, keep it in shrink-wrap with your dead mothers body in the basement. I promise that I will pour gas on my PHB, DMG and MM then set them on fire and take pictures of the whole process if enough people egg me on. :D
Seeker95 01-16-06, 10:49 AM	egg egg egg egg egg egg egg egg egg :D (This egg was sponsored by an eight-person gaming group)
Gallameed 01-16-06, 10:57 AM	egg egg egg egg egg egg egg egg egg :D (This egg was sponsored by an eight-person gaming group) I need more egg'ing than that dear fellow! I dont have any gas... :( Is it ok to use aftershave/toilet water/perfume/cologne instead? (just as flammable, plus it gives burning books a nice fragrant smell!) :)
kaeso 01-16-06, 11:45 AM	I only use post-its, writing in it would just bug me cause it wouldn't look so nice anymore.
Thelandrach 01-16-06, 01:17 PM	All of the above: I write errata into mine, cross out stuff that's wrong, use post-it notes to make pages easier to find, tape permanent additions into the book, everything except tearing the pages out. I have a friend in my campaign whose character uses information from five or six different books. He xeroxed the pages from those books that pertain to his character and carry them with him (Player's Handbook, DMG, Races of Stone forge info, Paragon writeup, Frenzied Berserker, Song and Silence, and the fighter splat book). It's easier than carrying an extra nine books around with him.
SinChild 01-17-06, 01:37 PM	While in a hurry to head to my grandmothers house to take care of her I reached for my trusty MM, DM Notebook (for the current campaing im running), and my DM Sprial. I figured while she slept i could get some work done adding the mosnters to my current project. The dad had bee stressful and I hoped some DnD time would be relaxing. When i opened my backpack that is always loaded with my grids, pencils, pens, minis and such i find that i grabbed my DMG2 by mistake and couldnt leave to get my MM until next week. I was working at the counter in the Kitchen, grabbed a knife and began stabbing my PHB. The first couple stabs were out of frustraion then just for the hell of it. My girlfriend was able to run by my house and drop off my MM and a few other books she thought I would need. So in conclution....highlight, dont, doesnt really matter unless you wanna keep them in mint condition and resell them when/if 4.0 comes out....or 3.75...or 3.678. As a side note, I am back in anger management now and none of my other books have met this wrath.
jasper 01-17-06, 02:42 PM	Let see, in my gaming books, I highlight, underline, tab, post-it and just book mark it. It is my book. And unless I become super famous I doubt I could sell any of my books for more than list ever. In other books I write as I feel is necessary.
Seeker95 01-17-06, 03:36 PM	I doubt I could sell any of my books for more than list ever.I doubt you could sell any of your books for list, much less "more than list". :P
WhiteRaven810 01-17-06, 06:23 PM	I wouldn't recommend highlighting, simply because the books are expensive and it's easy to go 'highlight-happy' and paint too many words yellow. Too much highlighting defeats the purpose of marking imporant points in the first place. Myself, I recommend a peice of sheet paper that can be tucked under the cover with a list of page relevent page numbers.
danzig138 01-17-06, 10:13 PM	Well, I wouldn't say they're pristine, but no, I haven't highlighted any of my PHB. Don't need to. I use the index and ToC and memory. Of course, I make the players look up more stuff now so that I don't have to remember as much. :D My 2nd Ed PHB and DMG, on the other hand, are terribly unpristine (both are missing the spines and bits of cover), and I highlighted the crap out of them. Back then, I looked everything up. My copy of d20 Modern has no highlighting, but quite a few sticky notes, acting as semi-perm bookmarks, but that's just to speed things up when I'm working on conversions for things. I say that if it helps you play the game, go hog wild with the glowy pen thing.
green_yawgmoth 01-17-06, 11:15 PM	I just make my own indexes for books that don't have them. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
Templetroll 01-17-06, 11:26 PM	I draw a mark on the inside cover as my mark so I can easily tell my book from someone else's. When my daughter started gaming with us at age 10 she got her own PHB. She promptly put Pokemon contact paper on the outside, stickers and drawings on the inside covers to 'be like me' and then highlighted the entire Druid section as that was what her character was going to be. My view was it is her book and she has played happily, and well, with us for the past 6 years. It's all good.
Radin Of The Justice 01-18-06, 12:45 AM	i put my name on the first inside pages, you know those tan ones in the 3.X PHB and i also mark important page numbers and make my own mini index of the book. now in my friends case, a quick look at the back of the book will reveal one of his characters written on those "for photo copy" character sheets.
mearrin69 01-18-06, 02:12 PM	Just can't do it. I also spent a lot more money than I had to in college because I didn't want to buy used books with scribbles and highlights in them. It really bugs me for some reason. :)
Wharin 01-18-06, 02:38 PM	The only time I take a writing implement to my books are when i first buy them, to put my name in the upper left corner of the inside front cover to make absolutely sure that that book is mine and not anyone else's. With my group, that occasionally becomes a possible issue. Thankfully, because of me putting my name in it, it has yet to be a real issue for me. I am pretty sure that they are all in pencil, too, should i ever sell them again.
ssampier 01-18-06, 02:50 PM	I don't mark my books simply because I prefer them pristine. My older second edition books were marked, but I don't like the way the ink or pencil marks smear over time. Just can't do it. I also spent a lot more money than I had to in college because I didn't want to buy used books with scribbles and highlights in them. It really bugs me for some reason. :) Which is odd, since most college textbooks I have purchased are only lightly marked meaning little pencil marks and very rare highlighting.
lord_blackfang 01-18-06, 02:59 PM	I've been brought up to regard books as sacred (my father is a novelist) and I could never force myself to damage one on purpose (er, things like "ruin that book or we'll kill your family" aside, of course...) Since I remember pretty much everything on the first read, marking isn't really an issue, anyway.
Elbethamore 01-18-06, 03:23 PM	Wow. I have never thought about this until now. I never thought it was that odd that I obsessed over the pristine quality of my books. I got really excited when I got the Races boxed set because it's in its own protective case. Even the errata is printed out and placed neatly in the front cover of the books they pertain to, rather than marking the pages. I could have been blissfully ignorant of my neurosis if it wasn't for this thread.
Brock Garthok 01-18-06, 03:39 PM	I have to say that I have not written or highlighted my D&D books, but mostly because I have found that they are not really written in a way the facilitates highlighting. I tend instead to put sticky tabs to mark certain important sections and I have notes on my character sheet for any rules specific to that character. It is not that I abhor writing in books, but I do want them to last as long as possible and still be useful for every character I play. After a several characters, the original highlighting would not make sense. Post-it notes are easily removed and placed in the back--my 3.0 PHB has about 1/4" of sticky notes inside the back cover. Yes, it does not close well and is murder on the spine. To answer a previous post, I did write and highlight in my Bible when I was in college. It may be sacred text, but my religion class required that I know certain information and I marked it up as I would any of my textbooks. When the book isn't mine, I won't write in it or deface it, but if I bought it then it is mine to mark up as necessary.
DaveReaves 01-18-06, 03:45 PM	My books are "well played" so to speak. They have their share pencil marks, scratches, creased pages, monkey blood splaters from the ritual sacrifies... I figure I bought them to use them and I will. I do have a Special Edition Player's Handbook that I only use at home when I know its safe as a lot of the ware on my books is not my own doing. I think the books (especialy the new 3.x books) are very well orginized. I don't think I need any help finding what I'm looking for. Tabs would probably help a little, but I think that more than anything they would throw the simatry of the book off and that would bug me.
Bane 01-18-06, 04:04 PM	I use Post-It notes as tabs for things I don't remember off the top of my head. I put one at the beginning of the special combat actions, one at the beginning of every other letter for spells, the DMG has one at the beginning of prestige classes, one at the beginning of magic items, and one at poisons. That's it.
autumnleaf 01-18-06, 06:17 PM	My books are pretty worn from a lot of use. I treasure them but I dont write in them. after you read and play from them you remember where things are in the book for future reference. But hey if it's her book then she can do what she wants to it.
serghand 01-18-06, 06:48 PM	some idoit player of mine wrote in MY PHB i am now attempting to figure out which one and burn them. My pristine condition was ruined by this guy!
DragonDeadite 01-19-06, 11:57 AM	The only book I "mark" is the DMG to get to the tables faster. I tear off pieces of paper (or cards that are used to seperate our microfish cards [how's that for old!]) and have them stick out of the top of the book with whatever it's marking written on the top of it. For my magazines I use paper-clips to mark important pages (like the page where the mind-flayer-dragon is!) but I always keep my books nice! My fiance on the other hand... decided to "draw" all over the inside cover of her PHB to make sure everyone knew it was hers... i mean come on!! You only need a small mark to know it's yours, not take a marker and draw vines/flowers all over it! SHEESH!! Only flaw in my PHB: got a bloody nose while looking through some of the spells and the page got splattered... also the main reason why I don't use Barkskin. :weep:
theplaidknight 01-19-06, 12:55 PM	I also believe in keeping books pristine. I never write in any book I own, and I also don't even use post-it notes. The lack of sticky notes is more laziness than skill, but I do have a pretty good memory for where stuff is in books. It doesn't bother me much to buy a used textbook with highlighting, but it does bother me a little, and I never highlight anything. I also tend to agree that D & D books are not written well to be highlighted in the first place. If you're going to the trouble to highlight rules text and not fluff, you should be able to see which is which unaided.
Phaseroth 01-19-06, 03:32 PM	My books all have my name on the inside front cover. In ink. In the pages, I've made little red marks where there is errata. That's so that when I see the red mark when I'm checking a rule/spell/ability/etc, I know to look at the appropriate errata sheet to get the lowdown. In some places I've gone so far as to cross out the erroneous material and write in the correct information when possible (say, crossing out a +2 and writing +1 next to it). My Bible is all marked up with highlighting and underlining. Every Christian I know does that. There are some denominations and people who hold the physical book as a sacred object (some going so far as to never stack another book on top of a Bible), but I'm not part of that group. I worship God, not a book.
Seeker95 01-19-06, 04:36 PM	I've made little red marks where there is errata.For errata, I've used my Dremel calligraphy ink eraser tip to remove the old text, and then used a Micron or ZIG liner pen (.005) to replace with the errata text. I can mimic typed text pretty well. :D
HermitIX 01-19-06, 06:24 PM	I remember DMing a game where one of the players didn’t have her own book and was a newbie, it fell to me to teach her. We were going over skills and I left her alone with my book. Her character sheet didn’t have all the skills on it, so instead of writing the skills down on her sheet she numbered the skills in my book then wrote the numbers down on her sheet where skill names would go. When I found out it really ****** me off I wouldn’t let her use any of my books ever again. I would tell her about a great feat for her character or a Prestige Class that was exactly what she was trying to accomplish with her character, but wouldn’t give her my book. I would never write on my book because its permanent. And some day when they move to E4 (distant future I hope) I will want to sell my books. Post-its however are a DMs best friend
Seeker95 01-20-06, 10:11 AM	I would tell her about a great feat for her character or a Prestige Class that was exactly what she was trying to accomplish with her character, but wouldn’t give her my book.This response goes beyond irrational to just plain cruel, potentially indicative of a psychosis. You might want to talk with a mental health professional. (Although said in jest, it is partly serious. Sustained vengeance is a psychotic activity.)And some day when they move to E4 (distant future I hope) I will want to sell my books.For which you will get about enough to cover the cost of shipping. 1e and 2e books go for $3-5 regularly on e-bay. When they get a bid at all.
Ranger REG 01-20-06, 07:54 PM	I think the books (especialy the new 3.x books) are very well orginized. I don't think I need any help finding what I'm looking for. Tabs would probably help a little, but I think that more than anything they would throw the simatry of the book off and that would bug me. It would have been nice if they have tabs like them phonebooks, so I can get right into the chapter I'm looking for. If I had to deface my PHB, I would like to put one of them cloth bookmarks like them deluxe PHB. So far, no one has given me tips on how to do that.