Defenders of the Faith vs. Complete Divine? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Defenders of the Faith vs. Complete Divine? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
BrinkofRandom
09-19-07, 02:28 PM What is the difference between the books Defenders of the Faith and Complete Divine?

As far as I can see both books serve the same purpose, and what book would be a better choice for me if I like paying a cleric and play with the 3.5 rules?

Thanks in advance.
Seeker95
09-19-07, 02:45 PM DotF is written under 3.0 rules. Although relatively easy to convert on the fly, it suffers from the twinkie factor present in many 3.0 supplements to a greater degree than do 3.5 supplements.

I own both, and use both, but if I were restricted to only one, I would definitely make it Complete Divine.
Zousha_Omenohu
09-19-07, 02:50 PM Twinkie factor? What do long-lasting and deliciously tasty cream-filled cakes have to do with the phenomenal, cosmic power of the gods?
BunnyMaster
09-19-07, 02:52 PM Twinkie factor? What do long-lasting and deliciously tasty cream-filled cakes have to do with the phenomenal, cosmic power of the gods?

Absolutely everything.
Escef
09-19-07, 02:58 PM Well, for starters, there was the Haste armor property. It gave one all the benefits of 3.0 Haste all the time. Which meant a +4 bonus to AC that stacks with everything and a bonus partial action (could be used as a standard or move-equivalent). All this for the cost of a +3 bonus. So, a suit of +1 Haste Chain Shirt (for example) would cost as much as a +4 Chain Shirt (total AC bonus of +8), but grant superior protection (+5 armor bonus and +4 unnamed for a total of +9) and grant you an extra half-round of actions every round.

If that doesn't scream Twinkie the Kid, I don't know what does.
BrinkofRandom
09-19-07, 04:49 PM So from what I understand Complete Divine is the way to go in any way?

And maybe it's not the smart question of the day, but what is Complete Divine's purpose, what is in it?
Seeker95
09-19-07, 08:34 PM what is Complete Divine's purpose, what is in it?It addresses skills, feats, spells, and prestige classes for divine casters. All in the 3.5 ruleset. It is what DotF could have been.
StevenO
09-19-07, 11:11 PM The Purpose of Complete Divine would seem to be updating Defenders of Faith and other material to 3.5 standards. If you play 3.5 you should get the CDiv.

Here are a few of the changes from DotF to CD:
Bonus Domains no longer grant extra slots to divine casters and their spells aren't automatically added to an arcane caster's spells known. I actually liked adding the "fixed" domain's spells to my sorcerer's spells know but see why this was changed.

CD updated many Prestige Classes and here is a brief summary of changes I recall:
Church Inquisitor - Made it easier to enter
Contemplative - added Divine Spellcasting Requirement
Holy Liberator - reworked special abilities and lowered saves
Hospitaler - fixed table, changed up special abilities and spells a little
Hunter of Undead and Knight of the Chalice updated in Complete Warrior
Master of Shrouds updated in Libris Mortis (where it is better written)
Sacred Exorcist - shuffling prereqs, changes to special abilities, loses Exorcism domain while keeping it granted power, moves Chosen Foe back to replace all Extra Turning bonus feats
Sacred Fist - major changes including replacing seperate casting progression with previous class advancement, a lot of changes to special abilities
Templar becomes Pious Templar - harder entry, moves back weapon specialization
The CD does add a number of PrCs to replace the ones lost.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
BrinkofRandom 09-19-07, 02:28 PM	What is the difference between the books Defenders of the Faith and Complete Divine? As far as I can see both books serve the same purpose, and what book would be a better choice for me if I like paying a cleric and play with the 3.5 rules? Thanks in advance.
Seeker95 09-19-07, 02:45 PM	DotF is written under 3.0 rules. Although relatively easy to convert on the fly, it suffers from the twinkie factor present in many 3.0 supplements to a greater degree than do 3.5 supplements. I own both, and use both, but if I were restricted to only one, I would definitely make it Complete Divine.
Zousha_Omenohu 09-19-07, 02:50 PM	Twinkie factor? What do long-lasting and deliciously tasty cream-filled cakes have to do with the phenomenal, cosmic power of the gods?
BunnyMaster 09-19-07, 02:52 PM	Twinkie factor? What do long-lasting and deliciously tasty cream-filled cakes have to do with the phenomenal, cosmic power of the gods? Absolutely everything.
Escef 09-19-07, 02:58 PM	Well, for starters, there was the Haste armor property. It gave one all the benefits of 3.0 Haste all the time. Which meant a +4 bonus to AC that stacks with everything and a bonus partial action (could be used as a standard or move-equivalent). All this for the cost of a +3 bonus. So, a suit of +1 Haste Chain Shirt (for example) would cost as much as a +4 Chain Shirt (total AC bonus of +8), but grant superior protection (+5 armor bonus and +4 unnamed for a total of +9) and grant you an extra half-round of actions every round. If that doesn't scream Twinkie the Kid, I don't know what does.
BrinkofRandom 09-19-07, 04:49 PM	So from what I understand Complete Divine is the way to go in any way? And maybe it's not the smart question of the day, but what is Complete Divine's purpose, what is in it?
Seeker95 09-19-07, 08:34 PM	what is Complete Divine's purpose, what is in it?It addresses skills, feats, spells, and prestige classes for divine casters. All in the 3.5 ruleset. It is what DotF could have been.
StevenO 09-19-07, 11:11 PM	The Purpose of Complete Divine would seem to be updating Defenders of Faith and other material to 3.5 standards. If you play 3.5 you should get the CDiv. Here are a few of the changes from DotF to CD: Bonus Domains no longer grant extra slots to divine casters and their spells aren't automatically added to an arcane caster's spells known. I actually liked adding the "fixed" domain's spells to my sorcerer's spells know but see why this was changed. CD updated many Prestige Classes and here is a brief summary of changes I recall: Church Inquisitor - Made it easier to enter Contemplative - added Divine Spellcasting Requirement Holy Liberator - reworked special abilities and lowered saves Hospitaler - fixed table, changed up special abilities and spells a little Hunter of Undead and Knight of the Chalice updated in Complete Warrior Master of Shrouds updated in Libris Mortis (where it is better written) Sacred Exorcist - shuffling prereqs, changes to special abilities, loses Exorcism domain while keeping it granted power, moves Chosen Foe back to replace all Extra Turning bonus feats Sacred Fist - major changes including replacing seperate casting progression with previous class advancement, a lot of changes to special abilities Templar becomes Pious Templar - harder entry, moves back weapon specialization The CD does add a number of PrCs to replace the ones lost.