Post/Author/DateTime	Post
WotC_Bart 09-16-05, 11:59 AM	Hi folks, We've posted the latest Design & Development column (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dd/20050916a) -- undercover at Gen Con. As part of the column, we've posted the results from last week's poll, as well as a new poll asking your thoughts on the warlock. Please feel free to use this thread for any further thoughts you might have on the warlock (or, on the subject of boxed text!). Thanks.
astute1 09-16-05, 04:43 PM	I, for one, find the warlock to be quite well balanced.
Dyvynarth 09-16-05, 05:42 PM	I believe the warlock is very well balanced. The only 'fix' for it I see coming in time as more invocations are released Dan F.
Nyarlathotep 09-16-05, 06:49 PM	The warlock is, if anything, a bit weak. I think a lot of DMs panic when they notice that the warlock has unlimited use of his abilities, which serves to make him SEEM more powerful than he really is. But the abilities themselves are kind of weak and I think unlimited use is about the only way to make them attractive. Besides, the sorcerer reaches a point where he has so many spells that his abilities are unlimited for all practical purposes, unless the DM is in the habit of throwing unusually high numbers of encounters per day. If the warlock has a capability for abuse, I think it is in his extra bonuses in the Use Magic Item skill and in his bonuses in making magic items. But just about any class has SOME weak point where cheesey builds are possible.
Reverend Duck 09-16-05, 07:00 PM	I found early on when I started DMing that my players weren't really interested in boxed text, and I didn't really feel that it added that much ambience and mood to the adventure. Later on, I began describing everything with my own words, which made the sessions more relaxed and a lot more fun! :) So I say that you should go for developing alternatives to boxed text. Perhaps the box could contain one column for each of the senses and one for major and important features of the room, listing everything of interest and importance. This would allow for DMs to make up their own descriptions right away while still providing the information needed for them.
Jeremy Clements 09-16-05, 07:21 PM	I am currently running my first Warlock in Paizo's huge Shackled City Adventure. It is doing well. Those extra hit points do help (compared to wizards and such)! Its not perfect of course, but nothing ever is. It is useful to be able to blast things with a touch attack every round, but making those defensive casting skill rolls while in an enemy's attack range is murder! Additionally, I will let you in on the Warlock's big weakness: Constructs, saving throws, and dead magic areas! That half-Damage Rule for the eldrich blast ability is definately appropriate! Two of the most important feats for any Warlock: Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot are 2 of the most invaluable feats they can ever have if they want to be able to use their eldrich blast ability extensively. I also reccomend the Forgotten Realms feat Luck of Heros (the +1 luck bonus to all saves and AC are definately worth it for such a character) if you can afford to get it. Also, I can see later adding a high level invocation that allows more destructive capabilities against objects (i.e. constructs). Additionally adding a Rusting Grasp invocation (if and when they ever might add more invocations) seems appropriate to me! I can also see adding rules for Warlock Invocation development and creation. You know time, skill checks, and money costs (maybe even contacting an extraplanar being in order for them to complete such an endevor). One other thing, while there may be multiple choices for invocations, an individual Warlock can only ever have access to so many in total (11-15 or so even with feats @ 20th level I think). Wizards and Sorcerers will always have access to every spell they might possibly want (or create!) that the GM will allow! Warlocks make a decision and they pretty much have to deny themselves certain orther abilies to do it. It can be nerve-wracking deciding how to build your Warlock. You can never truly prepare for every eventuality, so just like other adventurers: You wing it! I see the Warlock as a mighty interesting class. Slightly more powerful than your average PC, but their weaknesses are many! [On to boxed text:] I would say that you often do lose players when reading such boxed text cold. I have always noted that paraphrasing the text often helps. The biggest help is merely having the GM read the complete adventure ahead of time! Additionally, I once had a GM who never bothered re-reading certain parts of things. If you didn't catch that description of the "Strange Runes running around the door frame..." and then open the door and die from a Fire Trap spell or something, then the only fault was your character's for not paying attention to the room's details or similar. People sat up and kept their attention focused after that! I personally seem to have an easier time of it when running my own dungeons because I created the area the players are entering and have already thought of how to present it to player characters. With pregenerated descriptions, it often is the most concise way of describing an area, but... I once saw a GM who just copied the text out of an adventure and gave each player a copy of an area description as they entered it. That seemed to go well enough, just alot of organization on the GMs part and alot of leftover paper afterward. An answer? I have none right now. However, I personally understand when a PC might just miss a discription here or there. I've done it plenty. When they miss it every time? Well, you might want to talk to that person in private...
Majorafire77 09-17-05, 12:26 AM	I agree that the warlock is just about right.
Lenarior 09-17-05, 06:51 AM	I think I'm gonna have to disagree here. I find the Warlock to be overpowered. Perhaps not on his own, but in a group where he can be supported by fighters and perhaps clerics. Why? you ask. Well, it has nothing to do with the invocations, those are good (and fun to have). My problem is with the eldritch blast. In the end it tends to cause alot of damage, and still it takes only a ranged touch attack to hit. Most mighty monsters (say a dragon) tend to have one low score and that is the touch attack AC. Canät say what I'd like to do about it though, but I still find this warlock character to be a trifle to good. I say trial by fire should do the trick.
Xaxor 09-17-05, 08:28 AM	The Warlock is fine. Even with 9d6 every round, it's nothing compared to 20d6 energy balls. And that's just one level of spells. The closest a Warlock has to a Save or Die is Word of Changing, and that only counts at a 5 level spell. The biggest advatage of a Warlock is it's ability to endure. But given the choice to play a warlock or a wizard, wizard wins powerwise.
Rising Dragon 09-17-05, 09:05 AM	I fine the warlock very over powered at low levels where his unlimited use abilities makes him outlast other classes, possible balance mid level, and little unpowered at high level where he starts lose the versitality of other classes. Almost all extra base classes suffer from that they arn't supported as much feat and prestige class as the standard classes are. The warlock even more so, cuase of it's unusual mechanics.
The Teflon Ravager 09-17-05, 11:53 AM	I've found that long peices of text tend to get interrupted and repeated so since I design most of my own adventures I make any text required short. I just make more of it, lots of little bits rather then one large chunk. As for the Warlock I'd say it's pretty well balanced and while there are areas where it can overshadow the other classes all classes have those areas if you know how to manage them.
Quintara 09-17-05, 12:20 PM	I find that the warlock, if played by an honest, kind player, is well balanced. But the rules on its invocations and eldritch blasts are filled with loop-holes to be exploited, and any half-decent power gamer can smash the good idea that is the warlock into a thousand tiny pieces.
Eytan 09-18-05, 02:36 AM	I've seen several different DM reactions to warlocks. A great deal depends on the makeup of the party and how experienced the players are. If you are playing with a bunch of people who don't know what they are doing, someone with a warlock might sem powerful because of the simplicity. A well-played wizard however just has more options and more damage. Warlocks can clean up with certain very creative PrC choices (and the imbue item ability), but at higher levels (especially epic levels), they lag behind.
Elkantar 09-18-05, 03:33 AM	Personally, I find the warlock to be fairly well balanced overall. The invocations could use a bit of work, as I notice many of them require a little 'oomph' to make them a tad more attractive, as well as fit the 'wielder of dark power' theme. Also, the 'wielder of dark power' theme bugs me a bit in that it's heavily slanted toward the fiendish side of things. Which, in turn, also taints (heh, pardon the pun) their abilities and powers noticably. It's mentioned non-evil forces such as fey can create them, so it wouldn't hurt to drop the evil outsider slant with the class abilities. Suggestions: The core concept of the class, as I see it, is the ability to unleash raw magic power. This is most noticable in the Eldritch Blast ability. I see the blast shape and essense invocations as fundamental step toward manipulating these energies, while the 'other' invocations represent the culmination in weaving the raw magic of the eldritch blast into the facsimile of spells. I like the Deceive Item and Imbue Item abilities, as they further solidify the concept that this character is all about manipulating magic energies on some primal level. The detect magic ability also fits this theme. I'd honestly like to see this progress into Arcane Sight and Greater Arcane sight should the class ever see a revision. The damage reduction, fiendish resilience, and energy resistence can all go. None of these /really/ fit the core concept (as I see it, anyway), and simply serve to drive in the concept of 'wielder of fiendish power' bit. *And both DR and ER can be gained through feats. So, maybe replace these with a couple bonus feats, or see the origin thing below. Make them pick an origin at 1st level. Fiendish, Fey, <Insert other Origins here>. This will allow further tailoring of the class toward some concept befitting the source of the character's powers. For example, the DR, ER, and Fiendish resilience abilities can be replaced with something more appropriate to the origin. Make invocations duplicate actual spells. If they need a little oomph, they can have flavor added appropriate to the Origin. Some can be restricted to specific origins, or open to all by flavored by Origin. Further, invocations can be restricted by alignment. Does it really make sense for a Good aligned Warlock to be able to animate dead? Unlikely. Can they use good sense and not take that power? Sure. Would it hurt to restrict it to 'evil', make it evil aligned, or somesuch? Nope. I've more ideas, but it's late as I write this, so... To recap: I like the class. I think it's fairly balanced. I think it could use some revision. And I've ideas how (further evidence that the class is a good concept; it inspires creativity). -Jon Mullenax *Edit Okay, yes, I know most/all the invocations that aren't blast shape or essenses DO in fact duplicate spells. I simply mean that I'd like to see more of them duplicate the spell without further modification. Other edits above marked with a *
Elkantar 09-18-05, 03:43 AM	I'm reminded: get away from the 'least/lesser/greater/dark' designations. It's too... well, arbitrary, really. Instead, maybe go with a spell level mechanic for the invocations. Or, an alternative mechanic that fits the concept of unleashing and manipulating raw magic would be to put a Spellcraft prerequisite (based on actual ranks in the skill) on invocations, sort of ala the Bard. -Jon Mullenax
MerricB 09-18-05, 10:25 PM	I thought the comments on boxed text were spot on. I've often had that sort of problem - and I'm pretty good at reading text to make it interesting. But 5 minutes of text and no action isn't great. Cheers!
TruthNZ 09-18-05, 10:57 PM	On Warlocks: I've found, both by GMing and playing, that warlocks are exceedingly overpowered at lower levels. It's not their abilities that is the problem, but their invocations. Baleful Utterance allows shatter at will. At lower levels this means any mosters or NPCs relying on weapons just lose. If it didn't work first time, they'll just keep trying. As soon as NPCs and creatures start getting magical weapons this ceases to be a problem however. Earthern Grasp shuts down just about everything except fighter type creatures and NPCs, and even occasionally them. This is situational again, but it can be a fairly common situation to have access to normal earthen ground. Summon Swarm, I have issues with this spell being fairly powerful at low levels as is - just due to the problem that swarms of Diminutive creatures (bats and spiders in this case) are immune to weapon damage. Access to this at level one is just, well exceedingly powerful. Beguiling Influence is cute, but I believe should start less powerful and scale somewhat with level. Since Complete Arcane came out every character who is a party's voice seems to pick up at least one level of warlock just for this invocation. +6 to diplomacy alone is what makes people consider it. The other bonuses seem to just sweeten the pot. All of this seems to stop being as powerful, and become fairly balance about level 6 or so. And I could see how at higher levels a warlock might be considered weaker than an average character (I haven't actually seen a higher level warlock in action yet). I think a lot of the problem would be solved by starting things slightly weaker, and scaling it more with level.
MALfunction84 09-20-05, 02:31 AM	I was rather fond of the Warlock when my DM first showed it to me. Lots of rather weak at-will magical abilities really appeal to me as a utilitarian player, and flavor-wise, I prefer it over the Sorcerer by a long shot. Compared to the other classes in the D&D game, I would say that it is probably too strong overall. The invocations get a bit too strong at higher levels. Power creep is difficult to avoid (I might even say inevitable) because you want the new material to be attractive, and the novelty sometimes just isn't enough. One important concept I use in my evaluation of classes is the idea of a "power curve." While certainly quantifiable, I usually just imagine it as a qualitative measurement of power increase (dependent) vs level increase (independent). The Fighter's power curve starts off higher than the Wizard's (a 1st-level Fighter will probably kill a 1st-level Wizard), but unfortunately, the Fighter's curve is shallower. At higher levels, balance shifts to the Wizard (a 20th-level Fighter loses to a 20th-level Wizard). At some point, the Fighter's and Wizard's power curves cross, and at that level, they're fairly well balanced* (I'd place this at around level 7). Where does the Warlock fit into this? His power level is just below the Fighter's on the low end of the curve. At the high end, it's just below the Wizard's. On average, the Warlock's power curve probably is higher than the average of all the other classes (resulting in a stronger class overall), but its curve is not as shallow as the Fighter's nor as steep as the Wizard's. If the other classes could have their curves brought closer to each other at both ends, they'd end up more in line with the Warlock. That is to say, I think the Warlock has the most attractive/balanced* power curve of all the classes in the game, even if it is a little too high at every point. * Disclaimer: "Balance" is always subject to circumstance. At high levels, a mostly naked Fighter loses very badly to a mostly naked Wizard. Likewise, a well-equipped Fighter loses to a well-equipped Wizard. A well-equipped Fighter has a fair chance of winning against a mostly naked Wizard, especially if he has the element of surprise.
MindWandererB 09-20-05, 03:16 PM	The abilities that bother me about the Warlock are: Noxious Blast: Does damage plus causes total incapacitation for ten rounds. Effectively a save-or-die spell, at will, and does full Eldritch Blast damage even on a successful save. Curse of Despair: Enemy NPC warlocks + permanent effect + at will usage = nightmare for players. Voracious Dispelling: Dispel Magic at will is pretty darn good already. Add the damage-dealing and it might be a bit much. Tenacious Plague: Filling a battlefield with this stuff, particularly in a cramped dungeon, is an especially powerful tactic.
Particle_Man 09-25-05, 11:08 AM	I would put the warlock at the "little bit weak" end of things. Their damage output is relatively low (especially at high levels, when the iterative attacks of real archers and the godlike mass damage power of real wizards comes into play), and they are very limited in feat choice, skill choice (esp. since UMD is pretty much a given), and invocation choice. I think bumping up their skill points/lvl would help a lot, as would giving them some "bonus" feats from a limited pool (perhaps from the "precise shot" side of the fence, to differentiate them from wizard bonus feats). Also, I think that the invocations need clarification in many areas. For instance, when an invocation duplicates multiple spells, what is the duration of that invocation? Given the "Self-only" nature of the warlock, can the warlock bring friends with him when using "flee the scene"? If so, does the silent image duplicate the friends as well as the warlock, or the warlock only? My DM houseruled it to be self-only. Does the warlock with "fell flight" who gets that dispelled fall like a rock, or gently "feather fall" to the ground? "Hideous Blow" seems underpowered at present, imho, if it both draws an Aoo and takes a standard action. I think one of the major appeals of the warlock is the "less paperwork" aspect. I like that you don't have to keep track of spells known, spell slots used, or even power points used. Thus a second look might be necessary for the warlock's use of "charged" items like wands, staffs, the warlock rod, and their fiendish resilience power. In general, clarification is needed on what level a warlock has to be to create scrolls, staffs, etc., that can duplicate high level spells like wish. A 12th level warlock first faking 9th level spells in item creation and then turning around and using those spells could be abusive. I already have a gentleman's agreement with my DM never to take the feats to make scrolls, staffs or wands. Another way to go that would give more flavor to the warlock would be to have some items that give them access to invocations that they have not chosen, just as wands give sorcerors access to spells they have not chosen. I think this would give them a chance to "Field test" invocations before committing to them. Also, items that let them increase the DC of their invocations requiring saves might help give the least invocations some life at higher levels. In addition, I would make the choice of invocations more flexible, like the Spirit Shaman's, in letting the warlock choose their invocations for the day. Given the limited choice of invocations, the warlock would otherwise be stuck with a "bad" choice for a long, long time otherwise. One area of weakness is the grappled warlock. I would suggest inventing a feat that would otherwise be unnecessary: Still Spell-like Ability (my DM allowed this as a house rule). Otherwise, sudden still is the warlock's only recourse. At epic levels, the warlock falls well behind. An epic feat allowing the warlock to take dark invocations would help here.
ScipioX 09-25-05, 11:59 AM	Boxed Text Boxed Text is probably one of the worst elements of pre-written adventures. I haven't bought any modules recently, but I definitely remember some of those boxes going on for pages in some of older modules. The worst were pre-written speechs by NPC's. They'd have this whole spiel, but as a player I'd always interject in the middle of their monologue, which would throw off the DM. I think the DnD as conversation idea is spot on. Reading one sentece, then pausing to give the players a chance to ask questions is how I deal with it. Usually the players' questions are pretty obvious and are answered by the next line of text, but they are paying attention because they asked a question. I'd suggest offhand just having a section that concisely lists the important details, and a list of a few pertinent sensory bits. The detail list would also help DM's quickly answer player questions, as they wouldn't have to try and skim through a large block of text for the pertinent information. This would work especially well if the list was in the same order every time. I.E. 15'x 20' room 3 orcs 2 doors 1 lever Walls covered in faded tapestries depicting hunting scenes Air smells of mildew and dust A boxed text description would take an entire paragraph just to convey those simple details.
Tanivor 10-08-05, 05:54 PM	I find that the trick with boxed text is to: a) Keep it short. b) Keep it interesting. c) Keep it unique. I write all my own campaign settings, it's more fun that way, and I've found thus far that i've had few problems keeping my players interested.
airwalkrr 10-18-05, 10:53 AM	A player in my current home campaign has run a warlock from level 1 to level 3 thus far (he is a tiefling so he has a +1 LA while the other characters are all level 4). The party includes a ftr/wiz, rog/swb, clr, and rgr. Based on my experiences with the warlock so far, I have to say it is pitiable as far as effectiveness. His two feats are point blank shot and precise shot and he still misses a fair amount of the time (with an 18 dex at that). That said, while he isn't the most effective member of the party, he always has something to do, and that makes it a fun class for him to play. Overally, I say it is balanced in the same way a half-orc is balanced: underpowered but still a popular choice for PCs.
Elkantar 10-18-05, 11:09 AM	He misses regularly? He's using the ranged touch AC to determine whether he hits, right? Even at his level, he should be hitting fairly regularly, especially with an 18 dex.
Darson 11-13-05, 10:10 PM	If he is missing with an 18 dex, and only needing a ranged touch attack..The party fighter is NEVER hitting anything,,,,EVER...Or he is using VERY special dice..BE nice to him and go buy him more dice.
gomeztoo 11-17-05, 04:43 AM	I think the warlock is too powerful, really. The reason is partly the us-at-will ability, and the semi-permanent effects, but also the fact that the blast is non-specified damage (iow, it goes through all DR, always) and a touch attack. You can forget the fighter if the warlock is a permanently flying, permanently invisible foe that blasts rays that basically always hit, and basically always does damage. I saw this in effect in one game - I wondered, as aplayer, why anyone bothered battling the huge plant creature (and getting mucho hurt in the process) when we could have left it to the warlock. And sure, fireball does more damage, but it won't work against a creature with fire resistance. It also gives a save, and you can't cast it again. A not too powerful warlock blasts 4d6 points of unspecified damage a round, while staying out of reach of the creature that is beating the fighter (who can't hit it or get through it's DR) to pulp. Sure, a wizard has more versatility, and big blasting spells, but at the end of the day, his more powerful spells are likely gone (except at high level), and the warlock can merrily keep on blasting. It would have been better if the blast had a weakness, but it doesn't seem to have any except SR.
Elkantar 11-17-05, 06:50 PM	I think the warlock is too powerful, really. The reason is partly the us-at-will ability, and the semi-permanent effects, but also the fact that the blast is non-specified damage (iow, it goes through all DR, always) and a touch attack. Yes, the Eldritch Blast goes through DR. However, it also has to respect Spell Resistance unless it's enhanced with the Vitriolic Blast essence. And then it has to worry about Acid Resistance/Immunity. As such, golems are pretty much immune unless the warlock's picked up that blast essence. There's also Angels, Baatezu, (Some) Dragons, and Tanar'ri who all have some kind of acid resistance and commonly have SR. Don't forget incorporeal creatures who will always inflict a 50% miss chance on the warlock, as I can't recall any invocations that give their blast damage the force type (or give them transdimensional spell quality). You can forget the fighter if the warlock is a permanently flying, permanently invisible foe that blasts rays that basically always hit, and basically always does damage. I saw this in effect in one game - I wondered, as aplayer, why anyone bothered battling the huge plant creature (and getting mucho hurt in the process) when we could have left it to the warlock. Because it's no fun, that's why. :) And sure, fireball does more damage, but it won't work against a creature with fire resistance. It also gives a save, and you can't cast it again. A not too powerful warlock blasts 4d6 points of unspecified damage a round, while staying out of reach of the creature that is beating the fighter (who can't hit it or get through it's DR) to pulp. If your fighter can't hit the AC and can't penetrate DR, then this is a fight you should probably consider running away from. Or, maybe you should consider having a chat with your DM about inappropriate encounters. Sure, a wizard has more versatility, and big blasting spells, but at the end of the day, his more powerful spells are likely gone (except at high level), and the warlock can merrily keep on blasting. It would have been better if the blast had a weakness, but it doesn't seem to have any except SR. If it's a common occurance in a group for the wizard to run completely dry of spells before all the fighting in a day is done, then there's one of two possible problems I'm seeing. Either the wizard is waaay overzealous with their spellflinging, or the DM has a bad habit of trying to exhaust the day's resources before giving the characters a break. Maybe the former is a quirk of the wizard's personality, or the latter is your DM's style, but I know both would bother me for different reasons. So, in general, at the end of the day, the Energizer Bunny quality of the Warlock shouldn't /really/ matter all that much. After all, being able to fight only matters if there's a fight at hand. Overall, I think the warlock /could/ use some tweaking (as I posted previously on this thread). The DM is always free to disallow the class, just as he's free to disallow a paladin, fighter, or anything else he doesn't want in his campaign. But what a Warlock /most/ needs, IMO, is for DMs to carefully consider their role in the party and create encounters accordingly. Such encounters can be weighted to allow the Warlock to shine, or highlight its drawbacks just as for any other character, but nobody should be left out of the fun.
jstorrie 11-18-05, 11:18 PM	I think the Warlock is fine, balance-wise. He can seem overpowered in a group of suboptimally built characters, though. The thing is that you don't have many options as a Warlock; unless you're only taking a quick dip for Hideous Blow, there isn't much point in multiclassing or prestige classing out of Warlock, and your feat selection is pretty simple, too. A character built for power will generally outdo the Warlock, and a character built with less min-maxing in mind may fall behind a bit. The Warlock runs the middle of the road thanks to his lack of choices. Similarly, the Warlock is more powerful than the standard arcane caster at low levels, and less powerful at high levels, since he tends to play much as an archer would.
MeasureZero 12-19-05, 05:50 PM	But what a Warlock /most/ needs, IMO, is for DMs to carefully consider their role in the party and create encounters accordingly. Such encounters can be weighted to allow the Warlock to shine, or highlight its drawbacks just as for any other character, but nobody should be left out of the fun. This is the part where I really have a problem with warlocks. In order to craft an encounter where the warlock *doesn't* shine, the opponent needs to (a) fly or have a threatening ranged attack (this rules out most standard "hit you with my sword" or "claw/claw/bite" opponents), (b) have SR (and possibly acid resistance as well), and (c) be able to detect invisible flying creatures. How many low/mid level monsters fall into this category? The main issue I had DMing for a warlock was that I couldn't think of a way to have the party encounter varied, interesting opponents without having the warlock outshine everyone else by being indestructible/unstoppable. Sure, I could occasionally craft an encounter where the opponent has the qualities above and so the warlock has to be more creative than just the usual "blast him from orbit" strategy, but I couldn't do it every time. I couldn't even do it often without it seeming obvious that I was specifically designing encounters against the warlock. So I end up stick trying to balance varied and fun encounters vs. having the warlock obviously overpower the other classes. Don't even get me started on the difficulty of setting up ambushes and surprises against a permanently flying, invisible scout...
Elkantar 12-19-05, 06:26 PM	This is the part where I really have a problem with warlocks. Apparently I don't know how to read, because I originally wrote this pointing out all the things you're aware of. Now... First off, remember that the critters the party is going to face off against are perfectly welcome to use tactics. So, here's a few things to consider: Use smart villains: A smart villain will keep an eye and ear out for people who might decide to oppose his plans. In fact, if "adventurer" is a career path to fame and wealth in your world, they'd be the first targets of his watchful eye. He'd send out minions to watch, then plan any resistance for the PCs based on his intel and his resources. Therefore, sending a group of heavies along with a group of archers to target the warlock isn't out of the question. Fighters make great archers, and having a high dex boosts that touch AC as well as their chance of hitting. Wouldn't be unreasonable for them to carry potions of See Invisible either. Summon Swarm: This is a fantastic spell to target a warlock with. Not only does he have to make a concentration check to use his blast, but he has to make a fort save or be nauseated. AND the swarm is immune to his blast; swarms are immune to any spell with a single target or group of individual targets. He's flying? Use a bat swarm. Swarms: The spell isn't the only way to pit the party against a swarm, and many of them are nastier than the spell can conjure up. Clerics: Quick and easy way to give the enemy SR, depending on level. Scent: Unless the warlock has the invocation to counter it, the scent quality drastically limits the effectiveness of his invisibility. Blindsight is even better, especially if the warlock thinks that 60ft range is going to help him. Cover: Have your critters take cover when they start getting blasted from who knows where. Not only is this a smart tactic, it's a natural reaction. I know I'd make sure I had a place to retreat if things weren't going my way. Concealment: Obscuring Mist and like spells are fantastic ways not only to limit the effectiveness of a warlock, but anyone attacking from range. Concealment (displacement, blur, blink, cover of night, attacking from the bushes) are equally effective against the eldritch blast as they are all other attacks. Also bear in mind that a rogue can easily gain slightly better damage (up to 10d6 plus weapon damage) than the Warlock if they're smart about flanking, and that's on multiple attacks each round. And a sorcerer or wizard can easily outclass the Warlock so long as they aren't run through the gauntlet (if your spellcasters are running out of spells, it's time to start looking for a place to rest up).
rubendogs 12-19-05, 09:00 PM	On boxed text: As a player it's always been a problem for me to sit through boxed text. As a DM I frequently find my players goofing off after only a single sentence, or asking questions not covered in the text. As such I always find that these descriptive monologues come in two categories; those with too little information or those which are not relevant, and in noth cases, players (including me), loose focus qucikly. Since I usually write my own material, I switched to a list of specs, with my own key system to highlight what is available without checks, and what is harder to observe, as well as materials, air quality, etc. Of course these are taylored to how my group of friend's normaly play. As a player, I can't help but ask questions that give me the answers I want, and so do the other players, but I am sure it's a pain for my DMs, and some DMs handle it better than others. On Warlocks: Warlocks are my favorite new core class. While I agree they are somewhat powerful at lower levels, even a competent power gamer would overlook the class becasue it's high-level is weaker than most other classes, and it's hard to find a prestige class that can really augment the warlock. I think evening them out would be a mistake though, as they are they offer a challenge to roleplaying that is fairly unique from a core class. The character must contend with a lineage that can cause those around him to fear and hate him. Any warlock faces similar challenges: Feared by common people, shunned by those in power, and hunted by those who don't understand him. His outsider lineage will never look good on a resume. Overcoming his lineage is the biggest challenge of the good warlock. Any town or city which doesn't know his reputation for good will shun him. The real challenge is on the DM, if his player chooses the warlock without thought, the reactions of the NPCs are going to hurt the overall game. Likewise, if the DM fails to play the NPCs accordingly, the warlock's power and origins - and thus the player's choice - are without penalty. Might be that it's just me, but the numbers aren't the only thing that make a class. -Keith
Todd 01-25-06, 11:56 AM	It’s interesting to me see the arguments for and against the Warlock being balanced both here and elsewhere. I think that they are fine as is power wise. The blast is a nice weapon at the lower levels but not overpowerd. And just about the levels where the blast’s effectiveness really starts to seem sub par vs. spells and archers the class gains access to Imbue Item opening up new dimensions of play. If I could change two things about the class it would be to bump their skill points up to 4 per level and to make a few tweaks to support the “fey” warlock mentioned in the flavor text. Things like Knowledge (Nature) as a class skill or a few fey sounding invocation names would have gone a *long* way there. Aside from these tweaks what the class needs from future products are more Invocations. Many warlock builds end up looking fairly similar largely due to the limited choices in the CA. Magic of Incarnum was a good start & I hope to see more of this sort of thing in forthcoming books. New Warlock friendly PrCs would be nice but Invocations are a far higher priority IMO.
MadRaccoon 02-08-06, 01:38 AM	Warlocks are pretty balanced I think. Most people talk about eldritch blast damage being too much, but I've been playing a warlock for a few games now and I find that 3d6 damage is just as often 5 damage as it is 16 damage so it all evens out. The party Fighter does consistantly more damage per round that I do even with regular (non-touch) attacks because he has multiple attacks and a higher bonus (which, especially at higher levels, is where damage potential really shows - bonus numbers, not bonus dice). What I am afraid of is when I get to the level where I can take craft construct and have imbue item together. Then I will have my own clay golems that I can heal at will and use to fight those things that have too much SR of their own. Once I get there, then I'll see if I'm overpowered or not.
Doom_Blade_Orc 05-07-06, 06:47 PM	...The damage reduction, fiendish resilience, and energy resistence can all go. None of these /really/ fit the core concept (as I see it, anyway), and simply serve to drive in the concept of 'wielder of fiendish power' bit. *And both DR and ER can be gained through feats. So, maybe replace these with a couple bonus feats, or see the origin thing below. Make them pick an origin at 1st level. Fiendish, Fey, <Insert other Origins here>. This will allow further tailoring of the class toward some concept befitting the source of the character's powers. For example, the DR, ER, and Fiendish resilience abilities can be replaced with something more appropriate to the origin. Make invocations duplicate actual spells. If they need a little oomph, they can have flavor added appropriate to the Origin. Some can be restricted to specific origins, or open to all by flavored by Origin. Further, invocations can be restricted by alignment. Does it really make sense for a Good aligned Warlock to be able to animate dead? Unlikely. Can they use good sense and not take that power? Sure. Would it hurt to restrict it to 'evil', make it evil aligned, or somesuch? Nope... -Jon Mullenax I personaly think the warloc is on the higher end of the spectum of power, no ver pwered, but defenently worth a look. I don't agree with your asessment of of damage reduction ( powerfulfey also have that) and energy resistance (again, some fey have that). I do do the Fay/Demon thing, but I don't actualy replace the feindish resilience. Insted, I call it Natures Blessing (does the same healing thing, but with a more nature fell to it). On your sugestion to restrict them by alignment to spells, I should remind you that though the spell descriptor might say "Evil", it can still be used for good. A perfect example of this is Caderlily of the Forgoten Realms. He routenly Gates in demons and devils, and even though this would normaly make Gate an evil spell, he is a good person, and uses the traped fiends to further the cause of good. If you're outnumbered, why not reanimate a couple of the goblins to help you out? You can put them at rest after the fight is over. The theim of the warlocks invocations needs very little revision in order to make them seem fey (just change the name a little, maby substitute beetles for bats or an energy type, ect.). Also, envocations require that umph in order to make up for the lack of abilities. If it weren't for that umph, warloc wouldn't be my number 3 class (after kinetisist and ranger).