Dialogue check bonuses - stackable? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Dialogue check bonuses - stackable? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Mad Mage
07-23-05, 11:26 PM Can't find somewhere else to put this, since it's not really feat-related.

I ended up making 2 cleric domains in the FRs magic & deities forum that give the cleric a +2 bonus to dialogue checks with creatures of an elemental subtype. The thing is, someone else proclaimed this:

Going back to the [Urdunnir] Domain, maybe the granted power could be that you treat earth elementals as a ranger does a favored enemy getting a +2 to all the bonuses that apply (although not damage). If the cleric also has the ranger class and elementals are a chosen enemy, this bonus stacks when dealing with earth elementals.

I haven't found any ruling on this in the core rulebooks, so I need help on this. Do dialogue bonuses with a certain creature stack, and if so, in what ways?
Seeker95
07-24-05, 09:48 PM I've never heard of a dialog bonus. If that is the name of the bonus, then it will not stack with itself. It will, however, stack with all other bonuses.

If that is not the name of the bonus, then apply above, with the except that whatever the name of the bonus is, it will not stack with itself.
Mad Mage
07-24-05, 11:34 PM I wrote it like this.

Domain Power: You gain a +2 bonus to all dialogue checks to influence creatures of the Earth subtype.
Kalli
07-25-05, 07:00 AM I don't recall 'Dialogue' being a skill -- do you mean Diplomacy, or Dialogue as a general umbrella for things feasibly related to conversation -- namely Bluff/Diplomacy/Intimidate?
Mad Mage
07-25-05, 09:04 AM I don't recall 'Dialogue' being a skill -- do you mean Diplomacy, or Dialogue as a general umbrella for things feasibly related to conversation -- namely Bluff/Diplomacy/Intimidate?

The 'general umbrella' part.
Seeker95
07-25-05, 11:32 AM The 'general umbrella' part.Then you need to explicitly list which skills you consider it applicable to.

It will apply to all of them, but since you don't roll more than one DC check at a time, you don't need to worry about stacking. Even if there is a synergy bonus between two skills, the "dialog" bonus will also apply.
Edymnion
07-25-05, 02:45 PM Then you need to explicitly list which skills you consider it applicable to.Yes, you need to spell out exactly which skills are effected, and give a named bonus to them so that you can know how they stack.
Mad Mage
07-25-05, 03:55 PM Yes, you need to spell out exactly which skills are effected, and give a named bonus to them so that you can know how they stack.

I was wondering if there were different bonuses. *checks Skills section of 3.5 Ed. PHB* Let me see if I've got this right... the different types of bonuses are:
- racial (likely what I'll pick)
- ability score modifiers
- synergy (as mentioned)
- feat benefit (Better name for this?)

Any I'm missing?
Zherog
07-25-05, 04:18 PM Circumstance (what you probably want to use - a domain power isn't racial)
Competence
Alchemical
Equipment
Sacred
Profain

just to name a few...
Mad Mage
07-25-05, 04:44 PM Circumstance (what you probably want to use - a domain power isn't racial)
Competence
Alchemical
Equipment
Sacred
Profain

just to name a few...

Mind you, if Sacred and Profain(Profane?) come from the Books of ED & VD, I don't have and them and don't entirely know how to use them.

In addition, folks, I must confess that I'm really just a simple enthusiast of the Forgotten Realms with SOME D&D knowledge, so there's some stuff that will not be known by me, okay?
Zherog
07-25-05, 05:40 PM Yes - profane. I had a Monday moment. ;)

The name doesn't much matter. They don't really do anything other than add a number to a die roll. It doesn't matter if sacred and profane are from the BoED or BoVD (which I'm pretty sure you can find those bonus types in the PHB actually).
green_yawgmoth
07-25-05, 06:26 PM Sacred just means "good divine" and profane just means "evil divine". There's really not any more to it than that.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
Seeker95
07-25-05, 08:09 PM Sacred just means "good divine" and profane just means "evil divine".Except when referring to cows and language respectively.
(Nobody ever stats a thread asking why 3e didn't slay a few profane cows.)
green_yawgmoth
07-25-05, 08:40 PM Except when referring to cows and language respectively.
(Nobody ever stats a thread asking why 3e didn't slay a few profane cows.)
I now have to go make a forum and ban sacred language. ;)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
Mad Mage
07-25-05, 11:11 PM So, how does this sound?

Domain Power: You gain a +2 circumstance bonus to Diplomacy and Intimidate checks to influence creatures of the Earth subtype.
Seeker95
07-26-05, 08:51 AM Mad Mage, I would not call it a circumstance bonus. The bonus is coming "from" somewhere, and not just from a special set of coinciding circumstances. Since it is a domain-oriented source, I would make it an unnamed bonus. It simply applies.
Mad Mage
07-26-05, 10:02 AM Mad Mage, I would not call it a circumstance bonus. The bonus is coming "from" somewhere, and not just from a special set of coinciding circumstances. Since it is a domain-oriented source, I would make it an unnamed bonus. It simply applies.

Well, everybody else in this thread seemed to say otherwise, so I don't know who to believe.
Zherog
07-26-05, 10:26 AM I like Circumstance bonuses for one simple reason - they stack as long as the circumstances granting the bonus are different. It gives flexibility without being completely stackable.
Seeker95
07-26-05, 02:00 PM I like Circumstance bonuses for one simple reasonQuite reasonable. I defer to Zherog's ruling, should it ever come up in my game.
Mad Mage
07-26-05, 02:03 PM Quite reasonable. I defer to Zherog's ruling, should it ever come up in my game.

And that's what I did in the first place. Does my Domain Power description sound reasonable now?
Seeker95
07-26-05, 02:06 PM Does my Domain Power description sound reasonable now?The description sounds reasonable. But the power itself seems quite weak unless there are other benefits from the domain. How often do you engage in Diplomacy and Intimidate checks with Earth creatures? Encountering them is infrequent enough. Dialog-ing with them when you do meet them seems even less likely.
Zherog
07-26-05, 03:17 PM A slightly weak domain ability is OK, as long as the spell list for the domain kicks ass. If the spell list is weak, though, you should try to boost the power a little bit.
Mad Mage
07-26-05, 04:36 PM The description sounds reasonable. But the power itself seems quite weak unless there are other benefits from the domain. How often do you engage in Diplomacy and Intimidate checks with Earth creatures? Encountering them is infrequent enough. Dialog-ing with them when you do meet them seems even less likely.

From the sound of Races of Faerun, Orecutter Dwarves (or Urdunnirs, by their dwarven name) do tend to make at least a small but significant amount of contact w/ such creatures.
Seeker95
07-26-05, 10:58 PM From the sound of Races of Faerun, Orecutter Dwarves (or Urdunnirs, by their dwarven name) do tend to make at least a small but significant amount of contact w/ such creatures.If you want this to be a flavor-ful NPC domain only, sure.
Mad Mage
07-27-05, 12:24 AM If you want this to be a flavor-ful NPC domain only, sure.

I thought it could work for characters AND NPCs. Besides, some campaigns may involved more Earth creatures than others, no?
Seeker95
07-27-05, 08:49 AM some campaigns may involved more Earth creatures than others, no?True, but when assessing the balance of a proposed mechanic, we have to assume core rules are in effect. And core rules also assume a core world. If the balance / utility of the mechanic has to include a non-core world to make it seem more useful, that's fine. But it is still weak for a standard world compared to other domain options.
Mad Mage
07-27-05, 11:23 AM True, but when assessing the balance of a proposed mechanic, we have to assume core rules are in effect. And core rules also assume a core world. If the balance / utility of the mechanic has to include a non-core world to make it seem more useful, that's fine. But it is still weak for a standard world compared to other domain options.

Well, then, Seeker, do you have a better idea for a Domain power for Urdunnirs, and possibly Avariels?
Seeker95
07-27-05, 11:55 AM Well, you could always just copy the powers associated with the Earth domain.
+1 CL when casting spells with the [earth] descriptor.
Zherog
07-27-05, 12:00 PM But then you may as well use the Earth domain, rather than making up a new one.

Mad Mage - how about this:

Urdunnir Domain Power Urdunnir's have a strong connection to the creatures of the Earth subtype. Whenever making a Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate, or Gather Information check against a creature of the Earth subtype, clerics with this domain may add half their cleric level (minimum 1) to the check as a circumstance bonus.
Seeker95
07-27-05, 06:05 PM Zherog, you've just returned the Domain power to the level of useless in a core campaign, and indispensable in an earth-creature-heavy campaign. If you really want to stick with a diplomacy thing, I'd make it more applicable. For example...

Followers of insert deity name here who adopt the insert domain name here feel extremely confident when they have their feet firmly on the ground. This gives them a +2 morale bonus in all diplomacy, bluff and sense motive checks. However, should they be at sea, airborne or on another plane, the similarly suffer a -2 morale penalty to such skill checks.But then you may as well use the Earth domain, rather than making up a new one.True, which is why I suggested "copying" it instead of tweaking it.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Mad Mage 07-23-05, 11:26 PM	Can't find somewhere else to put this, since it's not really feat-related. I ended up making 2 cleric domains in the FRs magic & deities forum that give the cleric a +2 bonus to dialogue checks with creatures of an elemental subtype. The thing is, someone else proclaimed this: Going back to the [Urdunnir] Domain, maybe the granted power could be that you treat earth elementals as a ranger does a favored enemy getting a +2 to all the bonuses that apply (although not damage). If the cleric also has the ranger class and elementals are a chosen enemy, this bonus stacks when dealing with earth elementals. I haven't found any ruling on this in the core rulebooks, so I need help on this. Do dialogue bonuses with a certain creature stack, and if so, in what ways?
Seeker95 07-24-05, 09:48 PM	I've never heard of a dialog bonus. If that is the name of the bonus, then it will not stack with itself. It will, however, stack with all other bonuses. If that is not the name of the bonus, then apply above, with the except that whatever the name of the bonus is, it will not stack with itself.
Mad Mage 07-24-05, 11:34 PM	I wrote it like this. Domain Power: You gain a +2 bonus to all dialogue checks to influence creatures of the Earth subtype.
Kalli 07-25-05, 07:00 AM	I don't recall 'Dialogue' being a skill -- do you mean Diplomacy, or Dialogue as a general umbrella for things feasibly related to conversation -- namely Bluff/Diplomacy/Intimidate?
Mad Mage 07-25-05, 09:04 AM	I don't recall 'Dialogue' being a skill -- do you mean Diplomacy, or Dialogue as a general umbrella for things feasibly related to conversation -- namely Bluff/Diplomacy/Intimidate? The 'general umbrella' part.
Seeker95 07-25-05, 11:32 AM	The 'general umbrella' part.Then you need to explicitly list which skills you consider it applicable to. It will apply to all of them, but since you don't roll more than one DC check at a time, you don't need to worry about stacking. Even if there is a synergy bonus between two skills, the "dialog" bonus will also apply.
Edymnion 07-25-05, 02:45 PM	Then you need to explicitly list which skills you consider it applicable to.Yes, you need to spell out exactly which skills are effected, and give a named bonus to them so that you can know how they stack.
Mad Mage 07-25-05, 03:55 PM	Yes, you need to spell out exactly which skills are effected, and give a named bonus to them so that you can know how they stack. I was wondering if there were different bonuses. checks Skills section of 3.5 Ed. PHB Let me see if I've got this right... the different types of bonuses are: - racial (likely what I'll pick) - ability score modifiers - synergy (as mentioned) - feat benefit (Better name for this?) Any I'm missing?
Zherog 07-25-05, 04:18 PM	Circumstance (what you probably want to use - a domain power isn't racial) Competence Alchemical Equipment Sacred Profain just to name a few...
Mad Mage 07-25-05, 04:44 PM	Circumstance (what you probably want to use - a domain power isn't racial) Competence Alchemical Equipment Sacred Profain just to name a few... Mind you, if Sacred and Profain(Profane?) come from the Books of ED & VD, I don't have and them and don't entirely know how to use them. In addition, folks, I must confess that I'm really just a simple enthusiast of the Forgotten Realms with SOME D&D knowledge, so there's some stuff that will not be known by me, okay?
Zherog 07-25-05, 05:40 PM	Yes - profane. I had a Monday moment. ;) The name doesn't much matter. They don't really do anything other than add a number to a die roll. It doesn't matter if sacred and profane are from the BoED or BoVD (which I'm pretty sure you can find those bonus types in the PHB actually).
green_yawgmoth 07-25-05, 06:26 PM	Sacred just means "good divine" and profane just means "evil divine". There's really not any more to it than that. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
Seeker95 07-25-05, 08:09 PM	Sacred just means "good divine" and profane just means "evil divine".Except when referring to cows and language respectively. (Nobody ever stats a thread asking why 3e didn't slay a few profane cows.)
green_yawgmoth 07-25-05, 08:40 PM	Except when referring to cows and language respectively. (Nobody ever stats a thread asking why 3e didn't slay a few profane cows.) I now have to go make a forum and ban sacred language. ;) http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
Mad Mage 07-25-05, 11:11 PM	So, how does this sound? Domain Power: You gain a +2 circumstance bonus to Diplomacy and Intimidate checks to influence creatures of the Earth subtype.
Seeker95 07-26-05, 08:51 AM	Mad Mage, I would not call it a circumstance bonus. The bonus is coming "from" somewhere, and not just from a special set of coinciding circumstances. Since it is a domain-oriented source, I would make it an unnamed bonus. It simply applies.
Mad Mage 07-26-05, 10:02 AM	Mad Mage, I would not call it a circumstance bonus. The bonus is coming "from" somewhere, and not just from a special set of coinciding circumstances. Since it is a domain-oriented source, I would make it an unnamed bonus. It simply applies. Well, everybody else in this thread seemed to say otherwise, so I don't know who to believe.
Zherog 07-26-05, 10:26 AM	I like Circumstance bonuses for one simple reason - they stack as long as the circumstances granting the bonus are different. It gives flexibility without being completely stackable.
Seeker95 07-26-05, 02:00 PM	I like Circumstance bonuses for one simple reasonQuite reasonable. I defer to Zherog's ruling, should it ever come up in my game.
Mad Mage 07-26-05, 02:03 PM	Quite reasonable. I defer to Zherog's ruling, should it ever come up in my game. And that's what I did in the first place. Does my Domain Power description sound reasonable now?
Seeker95 07-26-05, 02:06 PM	Does my Domain Power description sound reasonable now?The description sounds reasonable. But the power itself seems quite weak unless there are other benefits from the domain. How often do you engage in Diplomacy and Intimidate checks with Earth creatures? Encountering them is infrequent enough. Dialog-ing with them when you do meet them seems even less likely.
Zherog 07-26-05, 03:17 PM	A slightly weak domain ability is OK, as long as the spell list for the domain kicks ass. If the spell list is weak, though, you should try to boost the power a little bit.
Mad Mage 07-26-05, 04:36 PM	The description sounds reasonable. But the power itself seems quite weak unless there are other benefits from the domain. How often do you engage in Diplomacy and Intimidate checks with Earth creatures? Encountering them is infrequent enough. Dialog-ing with them when you do meet them seems even less likely. From the sound of Races of Faerun, Orecutter Dwarves (or Urdunnirs, by their dwarven name) do tend to make at least a small but significant amount of contact w/ such creatures.
Seeker95 07-26-05, 10:58 PM	From the sound of Races of Faerun, Orecutter Dwarves (or Urdunnirs, by their dwarven name) do tend to make at least a small but significant amount of contact w/ such creatures.If you want this to be a flavor-ful NPC domain only, sure.
Mad Mage 07-27-05, 12:24 AM	If you want this to be a flavor-ful NPC domain only, sure. I thought it could work for characters AND NPCs. Besides, some campaigns may involved more Earth creatures than others, no?
Seeker95 07-27-05, 08:49 AM	some campaigns may involved more Earth creatures than others, no?True, but when assessing the balance of a proposed mechanic, we have to assume core rules are in effect. And core rules also assume a core world. If the balance / utility of the mechanic has to include a non-core world to make it seem more useful, that's fine. But it is still weak for a standard world compared to other domain options.
Mad Mage 07-27-05, 11:23 AM	True, but when assessing the balance of a proposed mechanic, we have to assume core rules are in effect. And core rules also assume a core world. If the balance / utility of the mechanic has to include a non-core world to make it seem more useful, that's fine. But it is still weak for a standard world compared to other domain options. Well, then, Seeker, do you have a better idea for a Domain power for Urdunnirs, and possibly Avariels?
Seeker95 07-27-05, 11:55 AM	Well, you could always just copy the powers associated with the Earth domain. +1 CL when casting spells with the [earth] descriptor.
Zherog 07-27-05, 12:00 PM	But then you may as well use the Earth domain, rather than making up a new one. Mad Mage - how about this: Urdunnir Domain Power Urdunnir's have a strong connection to the creatures of the Earth subtype. Whenever making a Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate, or Gather Information check against a creature of the Earth subtype, clerics with this domain may add half their cleric level (minimum 1) to the check as a circumstance bonus.
Seeker95 07-27-05, 06:05 PM	Zherog, you've just returned the Domain power to the level of useless in a core campaign, and indispensable in an earth-creature-heavy campaign. If you really want to stick with a diplomacy thing, I'd make it more applicable. For example... Followers of insert deity name here who adopt the insert domain name here feel extremely confident when they have their feet firmly on the ground. This gives them a +2 morale bonus in all diplomacy, bluff and sense motive checks. However, should they be at sea, airborne or on another plane, the similarly suffer a -2 morale penalty to such skill checks.But then you may as well use the Earth domain, rather than making up a new one.True, which is why I suggested "copying" it instead of tweaking it.