Diplomacy experience? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Diplomacy experience? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Jacl32
06-10-07, 02:07 PM My group and I are lvl 4 and we came across a roper in an adventure, which as most people know would kill my whole party. We had a paladin with a good charisma use diplomacy, offering food for passage, and it was successful. What I am unsure of at the moment is how much experience points is my group awarded? Is it the same as if we killed the roper? I have searched in the adventure booklet but I have been unable to find it. I was wondering if anyone knew the answer to my dilema or if anyone knows where to direct me. Thank you :)
Peregrine_Wolf
06-10-07, 02:12 PM Same XP as though you had killed it. You by-passed the challenge, thus you get XP.
Jacl32
06-10-07, 02:13 PM Same XP as though you had killed it. You by-passed the challenge, thus you get XP.

Really? Wow...I'm surprised because it was not difficult to persuade the roper but my whole party would have been slaughtered if I had fought it. Thank you
KillerGM
06-10-07, 02:14 PM Yes, you overcame the challenge, so you should get the same amount of experience.

Yay Diplomacy! :D
Witch
06-10-07, 02:17 PM Ofcourse, the diplomacy skill is terribly problematic.
Jacl32
06-10-07, 02:19 PM Another problem I relized is that my party must return the way we came because we encountered a dead end. This means we must face the roper again. Would we receive the experience for by-passing it with diplomacy again? Couldn't we just continuesly do this over and over again? A 10 lvl kill seems a bit too high for 4 lvl characters. That would raise us around 2 lvls.:confused:
Witch
06-10-07, 02:20 PM Another problem I relized is that my party must return the way we came because we encountered a dead end. This means we must face the roper again. Would we receive the experience for by-passing it with diplomacy again? Couldn't we just continuesly do this over and over again?
Is it still a challenge? I think it'd still have the previous behavior you gave him with diplomacy, so no, it's no longer a challenge, and you no longer get xp.
Ryusage
06-10-07, 02:25 PM Ofcourse, the diplomacy skill is terribly problematic.

True enough. But such easy XP!:D
Jacl32
06-10-07, 02:27 PM Ofcourse, the diplomacy skill is terribly problematic.

What exactly do you mean by this? Is this referring to that both opponents must do opposed diplomacy checks?

Also, do you guys have any suggestions on how I shall pass the roper again, just in case diplomacy is not an option again? Last time we offered meat our halfing had for her riding dog, but now the only thing we can offer is the meat of rotten corpses, which I doubt the roper will accept. We can't really sneak by it either. Any suggestions?
fatal error
06-10-07, 02:31 PM The reason Diplomacy can be problematic is that it is set against static numbers. It doesn't take anything into account other than the hostility of the enemy. Thus, by medium levels, a character specialized in Diplomacy can get by virtually anything intelligent as long as he can get the time required for the check.

As for getting EXP, I would not award EXP for passing the Roper on the way back, because if you had killed it you wouldn't need to confront it again.
Nom
06-10-07, 07:04 PM As for getting EXP, I would not award EXP for passing the Roper on the way back, because if you had killed it you wouldn't need to confront it again.Agreed. If you neutralise it in a manner that it still presents an obstacle to you then you didn't fully defeat it the first time.

Note that this can be quite situational. If you didn't need to go back then you would count as "defeating" it. Since you do, it's still a viable encounter.
StevenO
06-10-07, 09:19 PM Full XP for taking the peaceful route through an obsticle. Just because fighting it would be the hard doesn't mean it should be the only way to earn full XP.

For the return trip you can either have the party "encounter" the Roper again in which case it is again an obsticle to overcome or you can just go by again as it hasn't changed its opinion from last time. Even if the party had killed it the first time there is a chance that encounter would have been replaced by another. Consider that if they had to move past a guard post twice, it doesn't matter what happened the first time if a replacement show up.
KillerGM
06-10-07, 11:45 PM Full XP for taking the peaceful route through an obsticle. Just because fighting it would be the hard doesn't mean it should be the only way to earn full XP.

For the return trip you can either have the party "encounter" the Roper again in which case it is again an obsticle to overcome or you can just go by again as it hasn't changed its opinion from last time. Even if the party had killed it the first time there is a chance that encounter would have been replaced by another. Consider that if they had to move past a guard post twice, it doesn't matter what happened the first time if a replacement show up.

I agree with this - either leave it as overcome (ie: the roper will let you pass unharmed) or it's another encounter and, therefore, more XP for overcoming it, no matter how it is overcome. :)
Enderlaand
06-11-07, 12:39 PM Another problem I relized is that my party must return the way we came because we encountered a dead end. This means we must face the roper again. Would we receive the experience for by-passing it with diplomacy again? Couldn't we just continuesly do this over and over again? A 10 lvl kill seems a bit too high for 4 lvl characters. That would raise us around 2 lvls.:confused:
That would be the fault of the DM. Nothing you can do about it if he decided to award you a ridiculous amount of XP for an encounter that probably shouldn't have happened.
Phrennzy
06-11-07, 01:47 PM That would be the fault of the DM. Nothing you can do about it if he decided to award you a ridiculous amount of XP for an encounter that probably shouldn't have happened.

This encounter is in The Forge of Fury. It is meant to be a roleplaying encounter. There is really no reason the party HAS to fight the monster.

I doubt I would give out full XP - I'd adjust it by 50% or so. I am surprised that the module in question doesn't mention the XP for bypassing the roper.
StormKnight
06-11-07, 01:55 PM I'm pretty situational about XP.

I'd award you the full experience the first time; you got past the challenge and were clever about. However, if you have to deal with the same Roper again in a reasonably short time, I probably wouldn't give you any more XP. Clearly you didn't overcome it well enough the first time.

For an example of how subjective I am, if a dragon tries to eat you, and you talk it into just taking a bribe instead, I'd consider you to have overcome the challenge. If the dragon tries to rob you and you just hand over the treasure, I'd consider you to have failed to overcome the challenge.

The reason Diplomacy can be problematic is that it is set against static numbers. It doesn't take anything into account other than the hostility of the enemy. Thus, by medium levels, a character specialized in Diplomacy can get by virtually anything intelligent as long as he can get the time required for the check.

If something is willing to give you the 10 minutes to use Diplomacy, it probably really doesn't want to fight in the first place.

And "friendly" in no way translates to "do whatever you want". Nor does it mean they won't drop back to "hostile" ten seconds later when you make an utterly unreasonable request of them.

"I thought you were agreeing with me and offering to help me fight the surface world, and now I learn you just want to get to the hidden relic of PlotMacguffin!? You treacherous backstabber!"

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Jacl32 06-10-07, 02:07 PM	My group and I are lvl 4 and we came across a roper in an adventure, which as most people know would kill my whole party. We had a paladin with a good charisma use diplomacy, offering food for passage, and it was successful. What I am unsure of at the moment is how much experience points is my group awarded? Is it the same as if we killed the roper? I have searched in the adventure booklet but I have been unable to find it. I was wondering if anyone knew the answer to my dilema or if anyone knows where to direct me. Thank you :)
Peregrine_Wolf 06-10-07, 02:12 PM	Same XP as though you had killed it. You by-passed the challenge, thus you get XP.
Jacl32 06-10-07, 02:13 PM	Same XP as though you had killed it. You by-passed the challenge, thus you get XP. Really? Wow...I'm surprised because it was not difficult to persuade the roper but my whole party would have been slaughtered if I had fought it. Thank you
KillerGM 06-10-07, 02:14 PM	Yes, you overcame the challenge, so you should get the same amount of experience. Yay Diplomacy! :D
Witch 06-10-07, 02:17 PM	Ofcourse, the diplomacy skill is terribly problematic.
Jacl32 06-10-07, 02:19 PM	Another problem I relized is that my party must return the way we came because we encountered a dead end. This means we must face the roper again. Would we receive the experience for by-passing it with diplomacy again? Couldn't we just continuesly do this over and over again? A 10 lvl kill seems a bit too high for 4 lvl characters. That would raise us around 2 lvls.:confused:
Witch 06-10-07, 02:20 PM	Another problem I relized is that my party must return the way we came because we encountered a dead end. This means we must face the roper again. Would we receive the experience for by-passing it with diplomacy again? Couldn't we just continuesly do this over and over again? Is it still a challenge? I think it'd still have the previous behavior you gave him with diplomacy, so no, it's no longer a challenge, and you no longer get xp.
Ryusage 06-10-07, 02:25 PM	Ofcourse, the diplomacy skill is terribly problematic. True enough. But such easy XP!:D
Jacl32 06-10-07, 02:27 PM	Ofcourse, the diplomacy skill is terribly problematic. What exactly do you mean by this? Is this referring to that both opponents must do opposed diplomacy checks? Also, do you guys have any suggestions on how I shall pass the roper again, just in case diplomacy is not an option again? Last time we offered meat our halfing had for her riding dog, but now the only thing we can offer is the meat of rotten corpses, which I doubt the roper will accept. We can't really sneak by it either. Any suggestions?
fatal error 06-10-07, 02:31 PM	The reason Diplomacy can be problematic is that it is set against static numbers. It doesn't take anything into account other than the hostility of the enemy. Thus, by medium levels, a character specialized in Diplomacy can get by virtually anything intelligent as long as he can get the time required for the check. As for getting EXP, I would not award EXP for passing the Roper on the way back, because if you had killed it you wouldn't need to confront it again.
Nom 06-10-07, 07:04 PM	As for getting EXP, I would not award EXP for passing the Roper on the way back, because if you had killed it you wouldn't need to confront it again.Agreed. If you neutralise it in a manner that it still presents an obstacle to you then you didn't fully defeat it the first time. Note that this can be quite situational. If you didn't need to go back then you would count as "defeating" it. Since you do, it's still a viable encounter.
StevenO 06-10-07, 09:19 PM	Full XP for taking the peaceful route through an obsticle. Just because fighting it would be the hard doesn't mean it should be the only way to earn full XP. For the return trip you can either have the party "encounter" the Roper again in which case it is again an obsticle to overcome or you can just go by again as it hasn't changed its opinion from last time. Even if the party had killed it the first time there is a chance that encounter would have been replaced by another. Consider that if they had to move past a guard post twice, it doesn't matter what happened the first time if a replacement show up.
KillerGM 06-10-07, 11:45 PM	Full XP for taking the peaceful route through an obsticle. Just because fighting it would be the hard doesn't mean it should be the only way to earn full XP. For the return trip you can either have the party "encounter" the Roper again in which case it is again an obsticle to overcome or you can just go by again as it hasn't changed its opinion from last time. Even if the party had killed it the first time there is a chance that encounter would have been replaced by another. Consider that if they had to move past a guard post twice, it doesn't matter what happened the first time if a replacement show up. I agree with this - either leave it as overcome (ie: the roper will let you pass unharmed) or it's another encounter and, therefore, more XP for overcoming it, no matter how it is overcome. :)
Enderlaand 06-11-07, 12:39 PM	Another problem I relized is that my party must return the way we came because we encountered a dead end. This means we must face the roper again. Would we receive the experience for by-passing it with diplomacy again? Couldn't we just continuesly do this over and over again? A 10 lvl kill seems a bit too high for 4 lvl characters. That would raise us around 2 lvls.:confused: That would be the fault of the DM. Nothing you can do about it if he decided to award you a ridiculous amount of XP for an encounter that probably shouldn't have happened.
Phrennzy 06-11-07, 01:47 PM	That would be the fault of the DM. Nothing you can do about it if he decided to award you a ridiculous amount of XP for an encounter that probably shouldn't have happened. This encounter is in The Forge of Fury. It is meant to be a roleplaying encounter. There is really no reason the party HAS to fight the monster. I doubt I would give out full XP - I'd adjust it by 50% or so. I am surprised that the module in question doesn't mention the XP for bypassing the roper.
StormKnight 06-11-07, 01:55 PM	I'm pretty situational about XP. I'd award you the full experience the first time; you got past the challenge and were clever about. However, if you have to deal with the same Roper again in a reasonably short time, I probably wouldn't give you any more XP. Clearly you didn't overcome it well enough the first time. For an example of how subjective I am, if a dragon tries to eat you, and you talk it into just taking a bribe instead, I'd consider you to have overcome the challenge. If the dragon tries to rob you and you just hand over the treasure, I'd consider you to have failed to overcome the challenge. The reason Diplomacy can be problematic is that it is set against static numbers. It doesn't take anything into account other than the hostility of the enemy. Thus, by medium levels, a character specialized in Diplomacy can get by virtually anything intelligent as long as he can get the time required for the check. If something is willing to give you the 10 minutes to use Diplomacy, it probably really doesn't want to fight in the first place. And "friendly" in no way translates to "do whatever you want". Nor does it mean they won't drop back to "hostile" ten seconds later when you make an utterly unreasonable request of them. "I thought you were agreeing with me and offering to help me fight the surface world, and now I learn you just want to get to the hidden relic of PlotMacguffin!? You treacherous backstabber!"