Post/Author/DateTime	Post
bonethug0108 03-13-07, 08:00 AM	at the new altel commercial.:embarrass Making fun of us d&ders calling us all dorks and perpetuating the stereotype.:( I told my girlfriend they were evil.:P Now how do I make her switch....
bonethug0108 03-13-07, 08:21 AM	Not that there is anythings wrong with nerds, as I am somewhat one myself.:D
Seeker95 03-13-07, 09:01 AM	Many D&D players are dorks and nerds. The commercial focused on the stereotype. A stereotype that is confirmed at every gaming store and convention you can attend. D&D players (collectively, not individually) perpetuate the stereotype. I am neither a dork nor a nerd. I am a reformed-geek, comfortably keeping one foot firmly in the geek world. And I do not take offense at the commercial.
lastknightleft 03-13-07, 10:48 AM	I was just glad a commercial finally said "Dungeonmasters don't have levels" I mean, every time I see a TV show or commercial reference DMs or Magic the Gathering, they always talk of levels, which means they know nothing about what they're making fun of, so it isn't funny
Sikyanakotik 03-13-07, 11:06 AM	They're not geeks because they play D&D, they play D&D because they're geeks. There's a huge difference between the two.
kelvinaw273 03-13-07, 11:12 AM	I concur.
Giant_Moth 03-13-07, 11:15 AM	Oh comeon. We're all nerds and geeks and dorks here. But so what? Every nerd out there needs to learn to stand up for himself, this isn't the 80's anymore, where roleplayers were though of as worshipers of satan, and where software developers like Bill Gates remained virgins. Get the balls to accept who you are, and especially learn to laugh at the jokes thrown around. If you can't get a good laugh at yourself and whatever subculture you belong to, then you probably shouldn't go out in public...
bonethug0108 03-13-07, 01:53 PM	Eh, you all missed the point. I didn't care about the nerd thing at all. I wanted suggestions on how to make my girlfriend switch to cingular:P( or should I say AT&T now). I actually liked the reference.;) And in case you haven't noticed, the real reason for this thread is that I just wanted to point out the commercial.:P
Sikyanakotik 03-13-07, 02:19 PM	Oh. Well in that case, isn't that advertising, and thus against the boards rules? There was already a thread about the commercial. I think it got locked.
bonethug0108 03-13-07, 02:25 PM	I not advertising, as I said already I hate alltel. I was just mentioning that d&d was mentioned in it. How you equate that to advertising...:confused:
Sikyanakotik 03-13-07, 02:31 PM	I didn't say you were advertising for Alltel. Cingular AT&T, on the other hand... Alright, so it was just a failed joke. It's still kinda pointless at this point.
bonethug0108 03-13-07, 02:38 PM	Yeah, I just wanted to see who else saw it. As far as advertising, I don't see how asking how to make someone switch is advertising. Though I can see how some of the answers to it might have been. But that was all a joke and not meant to be answered, as has been pointed out. Bah, I just like seeing d&d mentioned here and there every now and then. Sorry if you don't like my jokes.:P ;)
High Octane 03-13-07, 02:58 PM	I watched the commercial and I suddenly wanted to switch to one of the OTHER phone companies.
bonethug0108 03-13-07, 03:01 PM	I watched the commercial and I suddenly wanted to switch to one of the OTHER phone companies. lol, that was my first thought. I said, "Man, they're downing d&d". Then you think someone has to like d&d for that to get in there. Or they REALLLLYYY hate it.
Sikyanakotik 03-13-07, 03:07 PM	Bah, I just like seeing d&d mentioned here and there every now and then. Sorry if you don't like my jokes.:P ;) I don't mind your misses if you don't mind mine. :)
Pfisiar 03-13-07, 03:11 PM	Bah, it's not shameful to be a geek anymore. It may be slightly pathetic to do ONLY that, but it's hardly shameful. Hell, if the temple of masculinity that is Vin Diesel can play D&D and be comfortable with it, I think some under-bathed, overweight ninnies can too. Oh wait, I just perpetuated a negative stereotype. I guess that makes me evil. :rolleyes:
sarahrock 03-13-07, 03:21 PM	Wow, I really want to see this commercial now... though no amount of d&d referencing could get me to actually change a phone company. And what's this about Vin Diesel playing d&d? sarah @ dndbabes.com
High Octane 03-13-07, 03:45 PM	And what's this about Vin Diesel playing d&d? sarah @ dndbabes.com He does. Hes talked about it. Hell he wrote the paragraph on the back of the 30th anniversary D&D book. Him and Stephen Colbert are the most famous D&D players. Also Roger Moore does or did.
Seeker95 03-13-07, 09:00 PM	Also Roger Moore does or did.You might be confusing the actor with the former TSR employee (and one-time editor of Dragon Magazine). Same name. Very different people.
bonethug0108 03-13-07, 09:25 PM	I don't mind your misses if you don't mind mine. :) Not at all. I love a good bad joke.
bonethug0108 03-13-07, 09:29 PM	Bah, it's not shameful to be a geek anymore. It may be slightly pathetic to do ONLY that, but it's hardly shameful. Hell, if the temple of masculinity that is Vin Diesel can play D&D and be comfortable with it, I think some under-bathed, overweight ninnies can too. Oh wait, I just perpetuated a negative stereotype. I guess that makes me evil. :rolleyes: Um, in case you didn't read the rest of the thread, it was only a joke. I do think they're evil for other reasons, though.:P And I question vinny's masculinity. But he plays d&d so he must be cool.:cool:
WizO_Cat 03-13-07, 10:43 PM	I was just glad a commercial finally said "Dungeonmasters don't have levels" I mean, every time I see a TV show or commercial reference DMs or Magic the Gathering, they always talk of levels, which means they know nothing about what they're making fun of, so it isn't funny Actually, that was my reaction as well. I remember a "Malcolm in the Middle" episode where one of the characters was saying he was a 7th level Dungeon Master, and my first reaction was also, "Yeah, they don't know what they're talking about." However, my wife loves laughing hysterically and pointing at me every time the Alltel commercial is on ...
Solaris 03-13-07, 11:17 PM	It only needs to be funny to most people, not to D&D players; you're not the intended recipient of the joke. Even if they do know what they're talking about, it might still be sensible for them to say "a 7th level dungeon master" because it gets the D&D reference across explicitly and succinctly to most people, without any extra concepts that would be required for a deeper joke that a D&D player would find funny. And when the joke is simply "hah! nerd!", you don't really need anything more.
WizO_Cat 03-13-07, 11:31 PM	Yeah, I can see that. However, it just seems that if you're going to use terminology, you might as well get it right. As noted, if you're just trying to be direct, the best way is to say, "I've played Dungeons and Dragons for 25 years!" I know people that would not know what even "a 7th level dungeon master" refers to, so one is already in the land of ambiguities there. Hey, at least the Alltel commercial understood that.
DMDaddy 03-14-07, 12:32 AM	I would think that the negative conotations directed at the game would cause some in the D&D company to take note. The commercial, although it is about phone companies, further revives the idea that all D&D players are nerds. It helps to encourage past stigmas of D&D as a negative game. Wasn't there a similar problem when Kevin Fedderline did a super bowl commercial that put a negative slant on fastfood workers? I guess wizards of the coast have no PR group to capitalize on this free publicity or to attack the commercial as presenting a false idea about D&D and players. For me, bottom line, while I thought the commercial was good, I didn't like the negative conotations. I live in the bible belt and have enough problems counter such stereotypical comments.
Otto the Bugbear 03-14-07, 08:05 AM	Really, the first thing I thought of was, "What, no disclaimers?" Isn't "Dungeon Master" a copyright owned by Hasbro [now]? I figure it means that Alltel is either using that without permission (i.e. illegally) or Hasbro or WotC gave them permission to use it without posting the disclaimers. (Something about "'Dungeon Master' is Copyright [year] Hasbro, Inc." in small text at the bottom.) Now, I'm not saying it bears any direct resemblance to persons at a company disliking their customers, but does anybody remember Lorraine Williams, of TSR fame?
Pfisiar 03-14-07, 08:10 AM	Oh come on. D&D players are percieved as geeks. If D&D players can't laugh at that, then they take themselves WAY too seriously. About the fast food thing. The reason it's insulting is because those people provide a service by what they do. Does playing D&D provide any type of service? I don't think so. :P
Seeker95 03-14-07, 09:28 AM	Does playing D&D provide any type of service? I don't think so.What? You haven't heard of the "prison or DM" rehabilitation program in Seattle? White collar crime defendants can plead guilty to a lesser offense and must DM for at least four hours a week for two years to avoid jail time. :P
ArcTan 03-14-07, 09:34 AM	Really, the first thing I thought of was, "What, no disclaimers?" Isn't "Dungeon Master" a copyright owned by Hasbro [now]? I figure it means that Alltel is either using that without permission (i.e. illegally) or Hasbro or WotC gave them permission to use it without posting the disclaimers. (Something about "'Dungeon Master' is Copyright [year] Hasbro, Inc." in small text at the bottom.) Now, I'm not saying it bears any direct resemblance to persons at a company disliking their customers, but does anybody remember Lorraine Williams, of TSR fame? No, you do not need permission from a company that owns a trademark to simply reference the trademark, especially when you're doing so in a negative or satirical sense. You only need permission to use a trademark if doing so might cause confusion about whether or not you own the trademark, and I don't think anyone actually thought that mentioning the phrase "Dungeon Master" made this commercial a commercial for D&D.
Otto the Bugbear 03-14-07, 12:40 PM	No, you do not need permission from a company that owns a trademark to simply reference the trademark, especially when you're doing so in a negative or satirical sense. You only need permission to use a trademark if doing so might cause confusion about whether or not you own the trademark, and I don't think anyone actually thought that mentioning the phrase "Dungeon Master" made this commercial a commercial for D&D. You're correct. No permission is needed (as of, what, the mid-1980s?) That's why in soda commercials (or fast food, or insurance, or car and truck, or whatever), that slam their competition, there's that very tiny text at the bottom stating who actually owns the derided product. So, no teeny, tiny disclaimer text on that commercial means what? 1. Hasbro said it could be used without requiring the disclaimer (showing that the parent company felt it was ok to mock their customers (the fact that D&D players are often geeks is irrelevant to the fact that it is mocking them)), or 2. It's being used without permission, which would require a disclaimer, or 3. ??? What are the other options? Someone enlighten me further.
Seeker95 03-14-07, 12:53 PM	What are the other options?Parody.
High Octane 03-14-07, 01:00 PM	What are the other options? Someone enlighten me further. ITS A CONSPIRACY MAN! THE GOVERNMENT MAN! OUT TO GET US MAAAANNNNN!!!! I mean its not like Alltell ever used copyrighted terms, logos, or characters in their commercials..... ....oh wait...
Bruunwald 03-14-07, 01:06 PM	I was only p.o.'d at that commercial because the mention was such a non-sequitur. One minute he's talking about something else, and the next minute he blurts out this Dungeon Master reference. What the h-e-double-hockey-sticks?!? Usually, I am not offended, since most of these shows and commercials are written by people who played and have a healthy sense of humor about it. That's fine. But suddenly referencing it in such a forced and phony (and obvious) manner, as if it were a hammer of coolness to hit the nerds (and the audience) over the head with, is just bad writing. And bad writing is always insulting.
Otto the Bugbear 03-14-07, 07:24 PM	ITS A CONSPIRACY MAN! THE GOVERNMENT MAN! OUT TO GET US MAAAANNNNN!!!! I mean its not like Alltell ever used copyrighted terms, logos, or characters in their commercials..... ....oh wait... :D I always figured a parody was using something that was different, but easily recognized as being really close to whatever the parody is about. Force v. Schwartz (Star Wars v. Spaceballs) Stuff like that. Maybe I'm just wrong, but nobody has been enlightening about this as of yet.
bonethug0108 03-14-07, 07:54 PM	You can parody anybody or anything without a disclaimer. Think about snl or mad tv. They use the real persons name and visually likeness. It doesn't even have to be for comedic purposes. Can't think of an example of one at the moment. The problem comes in when you start to slander. There is a difference between parody and slander. As long as you don't spread lies about someone/something to damage reputation, than it isn't against the law. Copyright is the other issue. Using a name isn't breaking copyright if you aren't using the name as the purpose it is intended for, i.e. calling your company hasbro, using a copyrighted name on a character similar to the one in question. You could name your comic strip character homer. You can't make him bald, fat, lazy, and saying doh every two seconds.
Seeker95 03-14-07, 10:28 PM	Maybe I'm just wrong, but nobody has been enlightening about this as of yet.My bet is on the former. Much enlightenment has been offered. You know what they say about making a horse drink after leading him to water... :P
Sikyanakotik 03-14-07, 10:45 PM	---
Lord_Tirian 03-14-07, 11:36 PM	Oh come on. D&D players are percieved as geeks. If D&D players can't laugh at that, then they take themselves WAY too seriously. True. But we can even tell'em: The geeks and dorks have taken over the world... LotR in cinemas? Computer games with million of players, many inspired by dorky stuff? C'mon... if you cannot say D&D has won... then I don't know. ;)
Otto the Bugbear 03-15-07, 12:36 PM	The problem comes in when you start to slander. There is a difference between parody and slander. As long as you don't spread lies about someone/something to damage reputation, than it isn't against the law. That's probably it. No slander involved, like "The truck made by the other company it terrible at towing" is different than just using the term in a mostly neutral way.
Seeker95 03-15-07, 02:09 PM	Otto, you seem to have an unstated agenda fueling your half-comments. Care to share?
Bruunwald 03-15-07, 02:17 PM	:D I always figured a parody was using something that was different, but easily recognized as being really close to whatever the parody is about. Force v. Schwartz (Star Wars v. Spaceballs) Stuff like that. Maybe I'm just wrong, but nobody has been enlightening about this as of yet. Parody is when you rework something into something else similar, in order to mock it or make fun of it. So, yes, The Schwartz was a parody of The Force. The Schwartz could also be argued to be satire, since the schwartzes in the film were obvious phallic symbols, thus the comedy had social commentary, as well. Defamation is when you make a false claim intended to harm the reputation of another. When spoken, it is slander. When written, it is libel. Our Alltel commercial is more like a light-hearted satire. Though it hopes we will take the nudge in good stride, it takes no pains to hide to whom it is exactly referring, and why they are socially inferior. It is not a reworking, but nor is it slander. But in any case, it's poorly written.
High Octane 03-15-07, 02:39 PM	At least now people know that Dungeon Masters dont have freaking levels... *pokes head over cubicles* SO STOP ASKING YOU BUNCH OF IDIOTS!!!
Prak, the Mad 03-15-07, 02:56 PM	I concur. not to mention, they better represent the stereotype than the reality. I mean, Vin Diesel and Robin Williams are gamers, and one look at the mature boards here wouold show that D&D nerds know of much better torture and torment methods than pinching someone. I would think that the negative conotations directed at the game would cause some in the D&D company to take note. The commercial, although it is about phone companies, further revives the idea that all D&D players are nerds. It helps to encourage past stigmas of D&D as a negative game. well, we are all nerds, but not all nerds are the socially-inept morons they show in the commercial... hmm... I'm thinking of responding with a parody of the commercial with better representatives of D&D taking chad out for a 'walk'... edit: oh ::censored::... they just succeeded at making the representative of their compnay a household name, didn't they?
lastknightleft 03-15-07, 03:28 PM	Actually, that was my reaction as well. I remember a "Malcolm in the Middle" episode where one of the characters was saying he was a 7th level Dungeon Master, and my first reaction was also, "Yeah, they don't know what they're talking about." However, my wife loves laughing hysterically and pointing at me every time the Alltel commercial is on ... Hee Hee, I'm just glad I got a moderator to respond to a comment I made:cool:
bonethug0108 03-15-07, 10:23 PM	hmm... I'm thinking of responding with a parody of the commercial with better representatives of D&D taking chad out for a 'walk'... A walk, huh. What will this "walk" entail?:P I would find it amusing.:)
ArcTan 03-15-07, 11:06 PM	You're correct. No permission is needed (as of, what, the mid-1980s?) No permission was ever needed by law, IIRC. The mid-1980s just saw advertising companies lifting a sort of in-house rule of etiquette that said they'd refer to the competition as "Brand X" rather than by name. However, no law could ever actually prevent you from saying anything you wanted about Pepsi in a Coca-Cola commercial. I mean, that's the First Amendment. (And reaching back further than the 1980s you do see a lot more companies openly referring to each other in their ads, since this was before a few big advertising companies took over the ad game.) That's why in soda commercials (or fast food, or insurance, or car and truck, or whatever), that slam their competition, there's that very tiny text at the bottom stating who actually owns the derided product. So, no teeny, tiny disclaimer text on that commercial means what? 1. Hasbro said it could be used without requiring the disclaimer (showing that the parent company felt it was ok to mock their customers (the fact that D&D players are often geeks is irrelevant to the fact that it is mocking them)), or 2. It's being used without permission, which would require a disclaimer, or 3. ??? What are the other options? Someone enlighten me further. That they chose not to use a disclaimer, which, while considered a polite thing to do and a good shield against lawsuits by clearly stating your intentions, isn't actually legally required? Companies using other companies' trademarks add disclaimers whenever there's a chance of *confusion*. They use the disclaimer when they're referring to one of their *direct competitors*, to avoid any implication that this commercial for Coca-Cola, which uses a Pepsi logo in its advertising, is actually a Pepsi commercial or that Pepsi went along with it in any way. However, if the product is unrelated enough, as in this case -- a long-distance company and a role-playing game -- then no such disclaimer is needed, because no one would mistake the commercial for a commercial for D&D. In no case would it ever be necessary for Alltel to contact Hasbro in any way, shape or form.
ArcTan 03-15-07, 11:10 PM	Copyright is the other issue. Using a name isn't breaking copyright if you aren't using the name as the purpose it is intended for, i.e. calling your company hasbro, using a copyrighted name on a character similar to the one in question. It's not copyright. It's trademark. The two are very different concepts. Names can't be copyrighted, only trademarked. And trademark is only violated if you're actually creating confusion about who owns the trademark. (I.e. WotC does *not* have the rights to the words "Dungeons and Dragons", which are words in the English language that anyone can use. They *only* have the right to use "Dungeons and Dragons" *as the name of an RPG*. You're only violating their trademark if you use the name "Dungeons and Dragons" in a way that makes people think you're Wizards of the Coast.)
bonethug0108 03-15-07, 11:15 PM	It's not copyright. It's trademark. The two are very different concepts. Yeah, that's the word I was meaning to use. The post was typed of the top of my head. Another reason to put a disclaimer is sort of what you mentioned. Price collusion is illegal, so if the two biggest companies are seemingly working together, they could face serious implications.
Prak, the Mad 03-16-07, 01:17 AM	A walk, huh. What will this "walk" entail?:P I would find it amusing.:) well, seeing as how the representatives I'm thinking about primarily post in the mature boards.... stuff that'd make the BoVD and BoEF blush
bonethug0108 03-16-07, 01:28 AM	well, seeing as how the representatives I'm thinking about primarily post in the mature boards.... stuff that'd make the BoVD and BoEF blush There are some(wonders what the best word to use is?) twisted ideas there.:D
Thecheesestandsalone13 03-21-07, 06:39 PM	A walk, huh. What will this "walk" entail?:P I would find it amusing.:) I want to take chad out for a "walk". P.S. After the rest of the torture I would beat him to death with my colossal red mini, because I'm a big fan of irony.
M1kh43l_P4r4d1s0 03-21-07, 06:43 PM	Him and Stephen Colbert are the most famous D&D players. Also Roger Moore does or did. two words: Gary Gygax
Seeker95 03-21-07, 07:58 PM	two words: Gary GygaxIn most gaming circles, "Gary Gygax" is only one word. :P And most people cannot pronounce the last two syllables of it. double-:P
Prak, the Mad 03-22-07, 01:42 AM	hell, in some gaming circles "Gary Gygax" is a four letter word...