Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Arreon 01-21-04, 05:52 PM	Looking for a good way to divide treasure. Have a 7 person, 1 NPC, group, mostly 15th to 20th level. They are companions for the most part, but not necessarily friends. There are 2 evil player characters, 4 neutral pcs, and 2 Chaotic Good characters. All have egos and although some act as leader now and then, their is not true leader to the group. Arguments about treasure splitting often dominates game sessions. I wouldnt say they are all GREEDY, but then again, wouldnt say any of them are CHARITABLE either. Several scenarios I would like to throw out for the use of this topic, splitting treasure: 1. Above group finds a +2 Mace in a secret cache in a footlocker under the bed. Not part of battle spoils, found by the rogue while searching the room for secret passages. 2. Party kills a bunch of very tough demon lords in a huge fight. Searching the lair, the party finds only one magic item, but its wonderful . . a RING of WISHES! 3. Party finds a cache of great spell books and arcane scrolls, perhaps 3 books and 12 scrolls in all. Only one arcane spell caster in the party. 4. Party finds an Artifact after doing battle with a great Draco Lich. They do not know its purpose or its powers, and will only do so with use or by carrying the item around with them on their adventures. In all the above, are there good and bad ways to split treasure? Suggestions, opinions? Thx! A :behold:
Despana 01-22-04, 02:29 AM	1. Probably goes to the person who can actually use it as opposed to pawning it for cash. Barring that, pawn it and divide the gold. 2. Keep it a party item to be used in extraordinary circumstances. 3. The mentioned arcane caster or possibly a member(s) with Use Magic Device. (Honestly, what's the point of the fighter getting any of 'em?) 4. Whoever says "Not Me!" last...
FireSpark 01-22-04, 06:44 AM	In my opinion, you seem to be encouraging all the infighting. If you only give the party a few smatterings of things, then naturally they're gonna argue about who gets the stuff. However, if they know that you are the sort of DM that practices the "All good things come to those who wait" policy, then I don't see why there should be any sort of argueing at all. Well, at least any beyond the smattering of truly IC disputes.
Krelios 01-22-04, 10:43 AM	1. Above group finds a +2 Mace in a secret cache in a footlocker under the bed. Not part of battle spoils, found by the rogue while searching the room for secret passages. At 15th-20th? My players leave the mace where it is, it's not worth the weight since they would have more than 50 times what it's worth in personal wealth by the DMG guidelines. 2. Party kills a bunch of very tough demon lords in a huge fight. Searching the lair, the party finds only one magic item, but its wonderful . . a RING of WISHES! Wishes get out of hand really quickly, and if someone feels disgruntled enough to say "I wish none of this had ever happened" you could be re-doing an entire night's work (personal experience on that one). 3. Party finds a cache of great spell books and arcane scrolls, perhaps 3 books and 12 scrolls in all. Only one arcane spell caster in the party. Easy choice, it goes to the arcane caster. Just like I'd expect him to surrender the plate mail to the fighter, the holy/unholy texts to the cleric, the magical lockpicks to the rogue, etc. 4. Party finds an Artifact after doing battle with a great Draco Lich. They do not know its purpose or its powers, and will only do so with use or by carrying the item around with them on their adventures. Give it to the person with the highest Use Magic Device skill or (if no one has any ranks) the highest INT. Once you figure out what it does, let the players apply common sense. I think the point is that you have poor evil players if the people that threaten their intrests haven't died in their sleep by now. If the only time their evil streak comes out is when there's treasure, that's not evil--it's just greedy. Not to mention the fact the good and evil characters working together should be a temporary arrangement at best. I have played a Lawful Evil character for years and it's always about what further's his own plans.
Arreon 01-22-04, 11:24 AM	At 15th-20th? My players leave the mace where it is, it's not worth the weight since they would have more than 50 times what it's worth in personal wealth by the DMG guidelines. When your saving gold for the 25k in True Ress costs your going to need sooner or later being in a party of this level, the last thing you want to do is pawk your Ring of Wizardy or your +4 Longsword to pay for this, hence, I disagree with your above statement. Every bit of treasure is important to every player in some fashion. In my opinion, you seem to be encouraging all the infighting. If you only give the party a few smatterings of things, then naturally they're gonna argue about who gets the stuff A really interesting response here, one that, one of my players told me as well a few weeks ago. Is it really the DM who holds treasure as something grand and not to be given away in hordes really the cause for in-house party fighting over looted goods or is it the fact they have no leader, charter, or real plan when loot is going to be found and split up? A great point and I will continue to think about this. I think the point is that you have poor evil players if the people that threaten their intrests haven't died in their sleep by now. If the only time their evil streak comes out is when there's treasure, that's not evil--it's just greedy. Not to mention the fact the good and evil characters working together should be a temporary arrangement at best. And this is correct as well, the union of this party was fairly new and was meant only for this adventure or campaign and not beyond. The Evil pcs are playing well in that they are using the rest of the party to get closer to their own personal goals of power and success, while the good or neutral ones are allowing the powerful evil pcs to join them (Dr Smith and Lost in Space theme) because they need there help at current time to stop a greater evil that threatens the land. In my opinion, this will take care of its self and the group will disband, reform, or break as the campaign comes to a closure. But, until then, I would like the party to at least try and adventure instead of a battle, then 2 hours of in game arguments over some treasure that they are being greedy over. Just want to offer them some inpartial suggestions to keep faces friendly and the game flowing along. Thx for your help all! A
His Majesty 01-23-04, 05:37 AM	Make sure that the treasure you hand out is given to a different character every time. It's OK to give only one thing at once, but don't make all the items good only for one of the characters. Then the party will understand (hopefully) that if they didn't get the item this time they'll get another item the next time.
Capn Charlie 01-23-04, 06:28 AM	After once seeing a grand melee break out over the first magic item in a game( Ring +1) I had them meet up with a Gnome Cleric of Waukeen(Commerce, Merchants). In need of a cleric they ask if she will join up with them. So she asks to see their adventuring charter. Of course they have no idea so she then introduces them to the wonderful way of waukeen. Step One: Define the current venture, usually whatever occurs in a period between two breaks(downtime in town), or maybe a contract or dungeon expedition. Step Two: Find the numbers of all participants, and assign them shares status. in your case, 7 whole shares and 1 half share(if it is a cohort, if a full npc of character level then they are full as well depending on agreement) Step Three: adventure. Any items found can be temporarily used after being found, as long as they are permanent, or are noted if limited use. Appraise is handy here but more on that in a minute. Step four: Once the venture has ended and the adventurers pool all spoils, and rewards. All items are appraised and the total value of the spoils for the venture is obtained. All non cash items are given values of what would be obtained by their sale, not market value. [b]Variant: If group is amiable the hoard is all profit. All expenses (i.e. material components, equipment maitenence et al) are deducted first. Step Five: Divide the value so as to give an equal share to each player. [i]If for example the hoard total comes out to 165, 400 gp each of the full share venturers recieve 22,151.78 gp, and the Half share venturer recieves 10,337.5 gp. Step Six: If anyone is interested in any items they can "buy" them from the pile for what would have been obtained for their sale. At the discretion of the other venturers personal coin and possibly future shares can also be bid. Step Seven: If multiple venturers want the same item they "bid" from their share until one is left, they recieve the item and what they bid is put back in the hoard and is divided amongst the rest. Spellbooks and scrolls are found able to be sold for 12,500 gp, the wizard can take those as 12,500 gp worth of his share, and if noone else wants them they are given to the wizard and he is still entitled to 9651.78 gp of treasure. Step Eight: Repeat steps 6-8 until noone else is interested in items. Step Nine: All remaining loot is sold, and the coinage is totaled and everyone recieves their total remaining treasure value in coin. Temples of Waukeen are pleased to buy all appraised(by them) items at half of appraised market value. They often have stocks of material acquired thus for perusal by players. They can buy Items at full market value. Temples of waukeen do all accounting and record holding for adventurers for free. Being the only such reputable institution for such transactions, and thus able to often easily double their money on most loot, is all the payment their church needs. Sure it is a very realmsian solution, but it works in my game.
channel_dunlap 01-24-04, 12:34 AM	I dread splitting loot anymore. I like Capn Charlie's method, but the group likes the charity approach, and I always get the :censored: shaft on it now. Someone walks about with a 20k ring, and I get stuck with 1,000 gp from what was left to sell. Its :censored: :censored:
q'afuu 01-24-04, 12:55 AM	We use the time-honoured method of calling dibs. And then there's an hour of IC arguing and haggling, but in the end my players usually come to a mutually acceptable agreement.
Mitchell 01-25-04, 03:09 AM	In our group, I guess that I am the leader, but not because of any major agreement, just that I have the most DnD experience, so the other players (all pretty much newbies) don't have a lot of ideas about how things can be done. Here is my favorite treasure splitting method: 1) Determine a picking order... Roll dice or whatever, this doesn't matter. 2) Find treasure. If someone wants to use it right now, go in order to see if anyone higher wants to use it, then they get it. 3) Gather all treasure. #1 picks first, etc. Players may re-pool any items that they have been using as long as they are not used (such as a wand or other charged item), otherwise, that is there first pick (and second, if that's the case). 4) Start claiming items. Unclaimed items go into the "to be sold for money" pile. 5) Divy items up. The player with the highest number goes first. 6) Note who got how many items. If someone got more, that's okay. 7) Repeat process, except for #1, with the player who recieved least items last time picking first. If tied, go by order. Once all players have had an equal number of picks, then fall back to the standard order. All players may not recieve an equal number of items, but those with the least will have first shot at the best items all the time. Players can't pick an item that they cannot use (a staff of power does everybody good if the wizard gets it, instead of being sold). At the end of it all, players get what they want, everybody gets something, and it usually comes out pretty well. It may seem like too much record keeping, but one notecard goes a long way. It isn't as difficult as I may have made it sound.
Arreon 01-26-04, 12:40 PM	As an update, tried a few of the ideas from the posts above last Friday in our weekly game. They really made a difference and we had very little argument over treasure. Thank you all for your help and suggestions! :angel: The most interesting loot divides the other night were when the party found: A bag of holding (and) A Flying Carpet Everyone in the party seemed to like and want both unique items but thanks to the suggestions, all were able to roll for them and this seemed to make everyone happy. They also agreed to split for coin the random +1 or +2 items no one needed or wanted and at the end of the night, gained some nice loot for party treasure to be divided up upon next trip to town. The only rift opened up when a +2 Warhammer of Thundering was looted from an enemy Blackguard NPC. The main warrior wanted it as a back up weapon (main weapon is a +3 Battleaxe) to use against Liches (need magic/bludgeon against their Dmg Reduct), while the Priest wanted it as a back weapon as well (currently uses +3 Flail that can Flamestrike 1/day). While the other 5 members wanted to sell it and split it up as party treasure once back to town. They agreed to discuss it again at a later time and moved on. Overall though, much more productive than it had been the last few weeks!