Dm Problems [Archive] - Wizards Community

Dm Problems [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Sean, THe Incompotent
06-22-06, 01:42 PM My dm fears wizards and it shows especaly when he is handing out items or bonueses. An example of this would be yesterday when we finished a raid on a castle, the two weapon fighting rouge got a dagger that mimiced what ever the enchantments on his other dagger and a tome of +1 cha the warmage got a tome of +2 wisdom and later that day got a master work spell storing borad sword the monk got a tome that gave him an extra feat the druid got a +3 composit longbow and i got 500 xp and a scroll of fire ball. This is ontop of the fact that i am already behind in wealth because i am the only charictar in the party that ever buys potions and even then i have yet to use any of my potions on myself they all go the other party members (we have no cleric). How can i convince my dm to make item distrabution fair, right now the only threat i can come up with is give me somthing or i will start optomizing my charictar and i dont really want to do that.
ajmastrean
06-22-06, 02:57 PM You are optimizing your character every time you choose to use a weapon with better damage or memorize a spell that has a longer duration... you had better be optimizing already.

What level is this game anyway? +1 CHA, +2 WIS as treasure for an encounter? You should be getting much more than 500 xp and a scroll.

If it comes down to it, take your DM aside and do not try to bring the other players down. Make your point that you are getting extremely shafted with these treasure drops and cannot enjoy the game as much as the other players. And, if you have to, quit buying all the potions! Ask the other players to chip in.
amatulic
06-22-06, 03:10 PM 1. If you don't use any of those potions on yourself, quit buying them. Nothing prevents other characters from buying potions.

2. In the games I've played, the Wizard created his own items, which turned out to be more useful than the stock items from the DMG. Admittedly, this is easier if you're building a character that starts out at a higher level, rather than growing one from a low level. Consider taking a Craft Wondrous Item feat. Of course you do need gold to craft items. And if other players ask you to craft something for them, make 'em pay you not only for materials but compensate you for the XP you lose. Our wizard had a waiting line of players with things they wanted enhanced. Not everyone got serviced before the game ended.

3. Most important, TELL your DM what you have in mind for optimizing your character if you're getting shortchanged in the treasure department. Don't threaten! Just talk to him privately and say "In the interest of game balance, I think you should know what I'm planning for my character...." He'll appreciate you being open with him. He may agree with your min/maxing, or change the treasure distribution, or maybe offer you a special solo encounter to accelerate your XP.

-Alex
Bruunwald
06-22-06, 03:46 PM By "optimizing," I think we can safely assume the OP means going overboard for the particular game in question. Possibly munchkinning or min/maxing when he has previously agreed to balance optimization with roleplay. Not every one of us encourages maximum destructive capability at all times, nor do all of our players even want that.

So let's not mince words, shall we?

The first thing I thought of when I read the first few sentences, was that you might already have overreached with your character, as far as the DM's comfort level, but then I read on and you seem a pretty level person. Perhaps the DM thinks wizards in general are too powerful already. I've seen people fall into this trap of thinking that because a fireball can deal 10d6 in a single round, that it somehow means the wizard outclasses the barbarian with the big axe dealing only 1d12+4. What they forget (obviously) is that the barbarian might deal that damage several times a round and can do it all day, whereas the wizard can only pull that fireball off a few times.

I had a player, playing a barbarian, who had managed to munchkin his character beyond all ability to balance against the others, who argued this same misguided fireball point and lost, lost, lost.

Anyway, it sucks that the DM is playing you this way. You might ask him straight-out, if he believes that wizards are overpowered. When he asks why you think that, let him know that it is because you don't seem to be picking up any wizard-related treasures.

Keep in mind that if this campaign is still new, he may have something on the horizon for you. My players, for instance, know not to worry if one PC is more in the spotlight or gets something really good this session. They know that their turn may be next session or the one after that. Different DMs have different styles, some working their sessions like TV shows, where the emphasis is on one guy one week, another the next.

As for potions, they count against character wealth. You have to count whatever items of value are in your possession when you check those tables, not just your gold. If you then hand those items out, it is not the DM's fault or a reflection of the wealth tables, though it does make you a good player worth having around. It also brings up an interesting idea, which is that you might try offering a trade to one of the other PCs, for something they have recovered. In my game there is no question. People regularly hand over things they think another character might better utilize. Ultimately, doing so means everybody gets what they need, and after all, what helps one PC helps the whole party.

You might want to remind your fellow players of that.
Puca
06-22-06, 04:44 PM Why the hell is the DM doling out treasure to individual players in the first place? The DM puts it in the dungeon. The party finds it. The party splits it up. He might hope something goes to a specific person, but that aint his call. Exp, he can distribute that however he wants, but not treasure.

There are actually suggestions for how this should be done, in the PHB I think, but maybe it is the DMG; that seems more logical.
Izodor_Shadowcaster
06-23-06, 12:55 AM There are actually suggestions for how this should be done, in the PHB I think, but maybe it is the DMG; that seems more logical.

PH page 167-168
Gnome_Dragon_Disciple
06-23-06, 01:34 AM Sean, you are a better person than myself. I would have sought a better DM, or better still, offered to DM the group from now on...

That said, you've been seriously shafted up to this point, but it's possible your DM has something in mind for you to get in a couple levels, or maybe your character already has something of great power and you don't know it. Out of that assortment of player rewards, I'd try to figure out if there's anything abnormal or strange about that scroll. It could actually be a map to something far more powerful.

But as always, the solution can (hopefully) be found by talking calmly to your DM and seeing if there's anything that can be done to rectify matters.
RoCkEtInToXiCaTe
06-23-06, 01:50 AM You'll get your chance...one of these days you'll get some voidstone...and then you can create a voidstone bastard sword with vorple...and be the god of D&D. No, I'm kidding.

But that seriously sucks, especially since creating magic items costs XP and you get almost none anyway. Just stop buying potions and kind of lay low with your character, using weak spells, and doing smart things like detecting a dangerous magical spell on something, some DM's reward not just for combat, but also for disabling complicated traps, and sometimes even avoiding combat. So maybe if your DM is like this, since you seem to get jack for killing monsters, if you do other very good things he may reward you more?
OravennasBrother
06-23-06, 09:40 AM This is ontop of the fact that i am already behind in wealth because i am the only charictar in the party that ever buys potions and even then i have yet to use any of my potions on myself they all go the other party members (we have no cleric).
Tell him you will stop buying potions.
Then Stop buying potions, tell the other players they have to buy their own as you are tapped out. Allow a TPK-1 as you turn invisible and Expeditious retreat away. No healing generally means a party can get into serious trouble with alarming speed. As you describe them these players don't seem the sort who can survive in that situation.

To be truly cruel, stay near the scene of the battle and use your magic (unseen servant) to loot fallen comrades. Then if the DM allows them to be captured, you can still SELL All Their Stuff and pocket the money. Yeah this is harsh and the players might resent it, but it IS an option. You might even mention that you have been advised to allow them to die if that might motivate tehm to pull their own weight in the healing potion department.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sean, THe Incompotent 06-22-06, 01:42 PM	My dm fears wizards and it shows especaly when he is handing out items or bonueses. An example of this would be yesterday when we finished a raid on a castle, the two weapon fighting rouge got a dagger that mimiced what ever the enchantments on his other dagger and a tome of +1 cha the warmage got a tome of +2 wisdom and later that day got a master work spell storing borad sword the monk got a tome that gave him an extra feat the druid got a +3 composit longbow and i got 500 xp and a scroll of fire ball. This is ontop of the fact that i am already behind in wealth because i am the only charictar in the party that ever buys potions and even then i have yet to use any of my potions on myself they all go the other party members (we have no cleric). How can i convince my dm to make item distrabution fair, right now the only threat i can come up with is give me somthing or i will start optomizing my charictar and i dont really want to do that.
ajmastrean 06-22-06, 02:57 PM	You are optimizing your character every time you choose to use a weapon with better damage or memorize a spell that has a longer duration... you had better be optimizing already. What level is this game anyway? +1 CHA, +2 WIS as treasure for an encounter? You should be getting much more than 500 xp and a scroll. If it comes down to it, take your DM aside and do not try to bring the other players down. Make your point that you are getting extremely shafted with these treasure drops and cannot enjoy the game as much as the other players. And, if you have to, quit buying all the potions! Ask the other players to chip in.
amatulic 06-22-06, 03:10 PM	1. If you don't use any of those potions on yourself, quit buying them. Nothing prevents other characters from buying potions. 2. In the games I've played, the Wizard created his own items, which turned out to be more useful than the stock items from the DMG. Admittedly, this is easier if you're building a character that starts out at a higher level, rather than growing one from a low level. Consider taking a Craft Wondrous Item feat. Of course you do need gold to craft items. And if other players ask you to craft something for them, make 'em pay you not only for materials but compensate you for the XP you lose. Our wizard had a waiting line of players with things they wanted enhanced. Not everyone got serviced before the game ended. 3. Most important, TELL your DM what you have in mind for optimizing your character if you're getting shortchanged in the treasure department. Don't threaten! Just talk to him privately and say "In the interest of game balance, I think you should know what I'm planning for my character...." He'll appreciate you being open with him. He may agree with your min/maxing, or change the treasure distribution, or maybe offer you a special solo encounter to accelerate your XP. -Alex
Bruunwald 06-22-06, 03:46 PM	By "optimizing," I think we can safely assume the OP means going overboard for the particular game in question. Possibly munchkinning or min/maxing when he has previously agreed to balance optimization with roleplay. Not every one of us encourages maximum destructive capability at all times, nor do all of our players even want that. So let's not mince words, shall we? The first thing I thought of when I read the first few sentences, was that you might already have overreached with your character, as far as the DM's comfort level, but then I read on and you seem a pretty level person. Perhaps the DM thinks wizards in general are too powerful already. I've seen people fall into this trap of thinking that because a fireball can deal 10d6 in a single round, that it somehow means the wizard outclasses the barbarian with the big axe dealing only 1d12+4. What they forget (obviously) is that the barbarian might deal that damage several times a round and can do it all day, whereas the wizard can only pull that fireball off a few times. I had a player, playing a barbarian, who had managed to munchkin his character beyond all ability to balance against the others, who argued this same misguided fireball point and lost, lost, lost. Anyway, it sucks that the DM is playing you this way. You might ask him straight-out, if he believes that wizards are overpowered. When he asks why you think that, let him know that it is because you don't seem to be picking up any wizard-related treasures. Keep in mind that if this campaign is still new, he may have something on the horizon for you. My players, for instance, know not to worry if one PC is more in the spotlight or gets something really good this session. They know that their turn may be next session or the one after that. Different DMs have different styles, some working their sessions like TV shows, where the emphasis is on one guy one week, another the next. As for potions, they count against character wealth. You have to count whatever items of value are in your possession when you check those tables, not just your gold. If you then hand those items out, it is not the DM's fault or a reflection of the wealth tables, though it does make you a good player worth having around. It also brings up an interesting idea, which is that you might try offering a trade to one of the other PCs, for something they have recovered. In my game there is no question. People regularly hand over things they think another character might better utilize. Ultimately, doing so means everybody gets what they need, and after all, what helps one PC helps the whole party. You might want to remind your fellow players of that.
Puca 06-22-06, 04:44 PM	Why the hell is the DM doling out treasure to individual players in the first place? The DM puts it in the dungeon. The party finds it. The party splits it up. He might hope something goes to a specific person, but that aint his call. Exp, he can distribute that however he wants, but not treasure. There are actually suggestions for how this should be done, in the PHB I think, but maybe it is the DMG; that seems more logical.
Izodor_Shadowcaster 06-23-06, 12:55 AM	There are actually suggestions for how this should be done, in the PHB I think, but maybe it is the DMG; that seems more logical. PH page 167-168
Gnome_Dragon_Disciple 06-23-06, 01:34 AM	Sean, you are a better person than myself. I would have sought a better DM, or better still, offered to DM the group from now on... That said, you've been seriously shafted up to this point, but it's possible your DM has something in mind for you to get in a couple levels, or maybe your character already has something of great power and you don't know it. Out of that assortment of player rewards, I'd try to figure out if there's anything abnormal or strange about that scroll. It could actually be a map to something far more powerful. But as always, the solution can (hopefully) be found by talking calmly to your DM and seeing if there's anything that can be done to rectify matters.
RoCkEtInToXiCaTe 06-23-06, 01:50 AM	You'll get your chance...one of these days you'll get some voidstone...and then you can create a voidstone bastard sword with vorple...and be the god of D&D. No, I'm kidding. But that seriously sucks, especially since creating magic items costs XP and you get almost none anyway. Just stop buying potions and kind of lay low with your character, using weak spells, and doing smart things like detecting a dangerous magical spell on something, some DM's reward not just for combat, but also for disabling complicated traps, and sometimes even avoiding combat. So maybe if your DM is like this, since you seem to get jack for killing monsters, if you do other very good things he may reward you more?
OravennasBrother 06-23-06, 09:40 AM	This is ontop of the fact that i am already behind in wealth because i am the only charictar in the party that ever buys potions and even then i have yet to use any of my potions on myself they all go the other party members (we have no cleric). Tell him you will stop buying potions. Then Stop buying potions, tell the other players they have to buy their own as you are tapped out. Allow a TPK-1 as you turn invisible and Expeditious retreat away. No healing generally means a party can get into serious trouble with alarming speed. As you describe them these players don't seem the sort who can survive in that situation. To be truly cruel, stay near the scene of the battle and use your magic (unseen servant) to loot fallen comrades. Then if the DM allows them to be captured, you can still SELL All Their Stuff and pocket the money. Yeah this is harsh and the players might resent it, but it IS an option. You might even mention that you have been advised to allow them to die if that might motivate tehm to pull their own weight in the healing potion department.