DM's: how do you handle cohorts for your group? [Archive] - Wizards Community

DM's: how do you handle cohorts for your group? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Lorillomar
12-30-06, 03:31 AM 1. Do you allow your players who take the Leadership feat to design their own cohort?

2. If you do, to what extent? Race/Classes, stats/skills/feats, items?

3. If you use a point-buy system, how many points do you allow cohorts vs. PCs?

Thanks!
FreeTheSlaves
12-30-06, 03:46 AM Sure we do. They can be any standard class race combo but backstory is crucial. We set their point buy value at 25.

Of note we also give them a half share of treasure.
Lorillomar
12-30-06, 03:59 AM I should have mentioned--on the point-buy question, our PCs are allowed 36 points. Should this affect the cohort's PB allowance?
StoneStokes
12-30-06, 04:12 AM In my game, I design all NPCs. The PCs can recruit just about anyone to be a cohort, but usually the plot drives what choices they make. Once a PC has successfully recruited a cohort, the two of us will level-up that character together (mostly what the player wants).

I usually handle followers the opposite way though: they will typically approach the PCs instead of the other way around.
Coren
12-30-06, 04:26 AM I personally rule that the Leadership feat cannot be taken. The player can either shell out the cash to get alot of followers or he can rise in the ranks of some nobel and get a title that grants him arsekissers (like General).
FreeTheSlaves
12-30-06, 04:50 AM I should have mentioned--on the point-buy question, our PCs are allowed 36 points. Should this affect the cohort's PB allowance?
Our characters are rolled using a generous method, something like 40+ point buy. The cohorts are confined to elite array, 25 pt buy (average hit points) because in no way are they allowed to overshadow a pc. That said, elite array is good enough.
Nytmare
12-30-06, 10:20 AM 1. Do you allow your players who take the Leadership feat to design their own cohort?

2. If you do, to what extent? Race/Classes, stats/skills/feats, items?

3. If you use a point-buy system, how many points do you allow cohorts vs. PCs?

Leadership has always made me kind of uneasy. The feat really feels like it was designed so that the players created their own cohorts and followers. If it didn't, there would be no real benefit to taking it over just gathering up the random assortment of NPCs that normally congregate around an adventuring party. I've been in a handful of games where the player basically told the DM who it was they were looking to "hire", and the DM would run a bunch of NPCs past them, but that never felt quite right to me either. In the end, yes, I'd let them design their own cohort and that's exactly why I don't allow it in my games anymore.

I'd let them run basically any race or class that would be open to them as a PC, as long as it still fit into the story.

If we were running point buy, and as long as it wasn't already an obnoxiously low number, I'd knock the cohort down one level from the PCs.
CharlieRock
12-30-06, 10:55 AM As the cohort gets larger, I'll allow them (the players) to design certain officers (usually at that point,I need the break).Like, if a siege engineer is needed, or some of the important captains.
Don't use a point system, just roll them.

P.S. Come to think of it ,last cohort was jointly designed by myself and two other players.
Olskool
12-30-06, 12:02 PM My rule with cohorts and what nots is "if it talks, I run it." Any cohorts and/or followers are designed and run by me.
Any animal companions, or non talking familiars, or summoned monsters are controlled by PCs.
I really don't recommend letting PCs design their own cohorts.PCs are optimized enough to start. You don't need their cohorts optimized to a ridiculous degree as well.
And I roll all cohorts and NPCs up the same way that players roll their characters up. Fair's fair.
Limousine_Liberal
12-30-06, 12:12 PM I let it be an interactive process where I ultimately design the cohort.

I let players choose from the common races and classes, as well as choose the alignment of the cohort. I also let the player tell me in a general sense what sort of cohort he wants. If he wants a LN half-orc Knight meat shield, I'll design a character like that. If he wants a NG human wizard magic item crafter, I'll design someone to fill that role.

The way I see it, it's like the PC is hiring an employee. If an employer needs to hire a tax attorney who specializes in tax motivated financial transactions, he doesn't have to accept the first personal injury lawyer who walks through the door. He sends the personal injury attorney packing and looks at the next candidate until he finally gets someone who fits (generally) what he is looking for. He'll probably not get his "ideal candidate" (i.e. the guy he would design if he were creating the candidate from scratch), but he on't get saddled with just anybody.
someonelse812
12-30-06, 12:27 PM why are so many DMs such control freaks? just let the PC have a cohort for pelor's sake! frankly, if you cant handle it then your a bad DM. its really just another sword in the party, one thats two level below thier leader. its been my experience that cohorts die, a lot. so I say let the PCs have their cohort and let their leadership score be penalized everytime they send the cohort in to the monster's lair first.
greatamericanfolkhero
12-30-06, 01:25 PM I don't allow the cohort part of leadership, It's more trouble than it's worth. I've replaced with a bonus to morale checks for the followers when in the characters presence.
Vaalingrade Ashland
12-30-06, 01:53 PM I give two options:
1) You can choose an existing character as your cohort. This lets you benefit from the feat instantly, but don't get much variety

2) You get to mechanically design your new cohort, but you may have to wait as many as 2 sessions for the character to enter the party.

Either way, I rp the character and decide what your followers are. All legal races and classes are fair game though.
Beowulf_R_Us
12-30-06, 02:13 PM I let my player design the cohort. The PC is trying to attract a particular race and class, or at least class.

I dont use the point buy system, i just roll up their stats, i find it much easier.
Nytmare
12-30-06, 02:14 PM why are so many DMs such control freaks? just let the PC have a cohort for pelor's sake! frankly, if you cant handle it then your a bad DM. its really just another sword in the party, one thats two level below thier leader. its been my experience that cohorts die, a lot. so I say let the PCs have their cohort and let their leadership score be penalized everytime they send the cohort in to the monster's lair first.

It's far from just another sword in the party, it's a feat that, if given full reign, will usually result in a PC who almost doubles in power.
FreeTheSlaves
12-30-06, 06:20 PM I don't know about that doubled in power.

The reason I say that is that a PC doubles in power every 2 levels, so (assuming a max level cohort) they come in at 1/2 power.

Then you've go wealth. We're pretty nice and give ours starting NPC wealth, which is a greater fraction of PC wealth, so they're again behind the curve. Some groups give starting wealth which would be a very heavy hit imo.

When it comes time for treasure our nice group allows the cohort a half share but some groups may require the leader to reward them. Regardless, either way they are making do on less.

Stats and hps can be another point of difference. Our games cohorts use a lesser system to further differentiate the follower from leader.

Also, due to the way they earn experience you need to be careful when getting them to craft magic items. If they fall too far behind the curve in XP they do not recover.

Ime, my current character's cohort is a useful addition but her lower level capability is pretty noticable. She needs careful monitoring to maintain her safety and that requires alert gaming. The cohort is definitely worth it but they take effort.
Nom
12-31-06, 05:52 AM Do you mean "design" or "stat"? One shapes the character, the other fits numbers to the shape.

In my campaigns, it's a cooperative process. If you choose Leadership, you do it because there's a specific character and/or party goal you want to fulfil, not merely so you can spend a feat to get an elite hireling. Then we work together to design and stat a character that fits the your goals and will work with the party.

And NPCs in my games use the elite array, which works OK since PCs are on 25 points.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lorillomar 12-30-06, 03:31 AM	1. Do you allow your players who take the Leadership feat to design their own cohort? 2. If you do, to what extent? Race/Classes, stats/skills/feats, items? 3. If you use a point-buy system, how many points do you allow cohorts vs. PCs? Thanks!
FreeTheSlaves 12-30-06, 03:46 AM	Sure we do. They can be any standard class race combo but backstory is crucial. We set their point buy value at 25. Of note we also give them a half share of treasure.
Lorillomar 12-30-06, 03:59 AM	I should have mentioned--on the point-buy question, our PCs are allowed 36 points. Should this affect the cohort's PB allowance?
StoneStokes 12-30-06, 04:12 AM	In my game, I design all NPCs. The PCs can recruit just about anyone to be a cohort, but usually the plot drives what choices they make. Once a PC has successfully recruited a cohort, the two of us will level-up that character together (mostly what the player wants). I usually handle followers the opposite way though: they will typically approach the PCs instead of the other way around.
Coren 12-30-06, 04:26 AM	I personally rule that the Leadership feat cannot be taken. The player can either shell out the cash to get alot of followers or he can rise in the ranks of some nobel and get a title that grants him arsekissers (like General).
FreeTheSlaves 12-30-06, 04:50 AM	I should have mentioned--on the point-buy question, our PCs are allowed 36 points. Should this affect the cohort's PB allowance? Our characters are rolled using a generous method, something like 40+ point buy. The cohorts are confined to elite array, 25 pt buy (average hit points) because in no way are they allowed to overshadow a pc. That said, elite array is good enough.
Nytmare 12-30-06, 10:20 AM	1. Do you allow your players who take the Leadership feat to design their own cohort? 2. If you do, to what extent? Race/Classes, stats/skills/feats, items? 3. If you use a point-buy system, how many points do you allow cohorts vs. PCs? Leadership has always made me kind of uneasy. The feat really feels like it was designed so that the players created their own cohorts and followers. If it didn't, there would be no real benefit to taking it over just gathering up the random assortment of NPCs that normally congregate around an adventuring party. I've been in a handful of games where the player basically told the DM who it was they were looking to "hire", and the DM would run a bunch of NPCs past them, but that never felt quite right to me either. In the end, yes, I'd let them design their own cohort and that's exactly why I don't allow it in my games anymore. I'd let them run basically any race or class that would be open to them as a PC, as long as it still fit into the story. If we were running point buy, and as long as it wasn't already an obnoxiously low number, I'd knock the cohort down one level from the PCs.
CharlieRock 12-30-06, 10:55 AM	As the cohort gets larger, I'll allow them (the players) to design certain officers (usually at that point,I need the break).Like, if a siege engineer is needed, or some of the important captains. Don't use a point system, just roll them. P.S. Come to think of it ,last cohort was jointly designed by myself and two other players.
Olskool 12-30-06, 12:02 PM	My rule with cohorts and what nots is "if it talks, I run it." Any cohorts and/or followers are designed and run by me. Any animal companions, or non talking familiars, or summoned monsters are controlled by PCs. I really don't recommend letting PCs design their own cohorts.PCs are optimized enough to start. You don't need their cohorts optimized to a ridiculous degree as well. And I roll all cohorts and NPCs up the same way that players roll their characters up. Fair's fair.
Limousine_Liberal 12-30-06, 12:12 PM	I let it be an interactive process where I ultimately design the cohort. I let players choose from the common races and classes, as well as choose the alignment of the cohort. I also let the player tell me in a general sense what sort of cohort he wants. If he wants a LN half-orc Knight meat shield, I'll design a character like that. If he wants a NG human wizard magic item crafter, I'll design someone to fill that role. The way I see it, it's like the PC is hiring an employee. If an employer needs to hire a tax attorney who specializes in tax motivated financial transactions, he doesn't have to accept the first personal injury lawyer who walks through the door. He sends the personal injury attorney packing and looks at the next candidate until he finally gets someone who fits (generally) what he is looking for. He'll probably not get his "ideal candidate" (i.e. the guy he would design if he were creating the candidate from scratch), but he on't get saddled with just anybody.
someonelse812 12-30-06, 12:27 PM	why are so many DMs such control freaks? just let the PC have a cohort for pelor's sake! frankly, if you cant handle it then your a bad DM. its really just another sword in the party, one thats two level below thier leader. its been my experience that cohorts die, a lot. so I say let the PCs have their cohort and let their leadership score be penalized everytime they send the cohort in to the monster's lair first.
greatamericanfolkhero 12-30-06, 01:25 PM	I don't allow the cohort part of leadership, It's more trouble than it's worth. I've replaced with a bonus to morale checks for the followers when in the characters presence.
Vaalingrade Ashland 12-30-06, 01:53 PM	I give two options: 1) You can choose an existing character as your cohort. This lets you benefit from the feat instantly, but don't get much variety 2) You get to mechanically design your new cohort, but you may have to wait as many as 2 sessions for the character to enter the party. Either way, I rp the character and decide what your followers are. All legal races and classes are fair game though.
Beowulf_R_Us 12-30-06, 02:13 PM	I let my player design the cohort. The PC is trying to attract a particular race and class, or at least class. I dont use the point buy system, i just roll up their stats, i find it much easier.
Nytmare 12-30-06, 02:14 PM	why are so many DMs such control freaks? just let the PC have a cohort for pelor's sake! frankly, if you cant handle it then your a bad DM. its really just another sword in the party, one thats two level below thier leader. its been my experience that cohorts die, a lot. so I say let the PCs have their cohort and let their leadership score be penalized everytime they send the cohort in to the monster's lair first. It's far from just another sword in the party, it's a feat that, if given full reign, will usually result in a PC who almost doubles in power.
FreeTheSlaves 12-30-06, 06:20 PM	I don't know about that doubled in power. The reason I say that is that a PC doubles in power every 2 levels, so (assuming a max level cohort) they come in at 1/2 power. Then you've go wealth. We're pretty nice and give ours starting NPC wealth, which is a greater fraction of PC wealth, so they're again behind the curve. Some groups give starting wealth which would be a very heavy hit imo. When it comes time for treasure our nice group allows the cohort a half share but some groups may require the leader to reward them. Regardless, either way they are making do on less. Stats and hps can be another point of difference. Our games cohorts use a lesser system to further differentiate the follower from leader. Also, due to the way they earn experience you need to be careful when getting them to craft magic items. If they fall too far behind the curve in XP they do not recover. Ime, my current character's cohort is a useful addition but her lower level capability is pretty noticable. She needs careful monitoring to maintain her safety and that requires alert gaming. The cohort is definitely worth it but they take effort.
Nom 12-31-06, 05:52 AM	Do you mean "design" or "stat"? One shapes the character, the other fits numbers to the shape. In my campaigns, it's a cooperative process. If you choose Leadership, you do it because there's a specific character and/or party goal you want to fulfil, not merely so you can spend a feat to get an elite hireling. Then we work together to design and stat a character that fits the your goals and will work with the party. And NPCs in my games use the elite array, which works OK since PCs are on 25 points.