DMPC question [Archive] - Wizards Community

DMPC question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
molten_dragon
06-13-07, 06:26 AM Okay, I'm currently starting a new campaign in the homebrew campaign setting that I just finished. The biggest rule changes in the world revolve around the arcane spellcasting system. I have four players who are playing:

Human Crusader
Half-Elf Cleric
Half-Orc Ranger
Human Fighter/Rogue

As you can see, the party has no arcane spellcasting ability whatsoever. It kind of worries me, because parties without a mage always seem to have a lot more problems than those with one in my experience. I'd also like to have a mage so the changes to the spellcasting system can be tried. However, I don't want to force any of the players to play something they don't want to.

For that reason, I was thinking about having an NPC mage travel with the party. However, I have heard the horror stories about DMPCs and have run a couple myself in the past and they haven't done all that well. Usually, they were too bland and didn't help the party all that much because I was afraid of going to far the other direction and letting my npc rule the party.

So, that being said, does anyone have any other suggestions about what I could do? Or any advice on running a DMPC if I should feel the need to?

Thanks,
MD
ishpu
06-13-07, 06:37 AM well it seems like the biggest problem with dmpc's is the fact that you dont want them to overshadow the party, and they have to have a reason to be following the party and helping them all the time. i've had one sucessful dmpc and it really only worked with a single pc campaign. i think once you have multiple people there is less need for it. sure they might rest more but i'd advise you to not have a full time follower. maybe make a crafter or something to make them potions from time to time or something similar. if you want to have a mage with them i'd just say make sure he doesn't end up being the center of the party, maybe a bard would be a better choice to help increase everyones abilities and give a small ammount of healing? just my 2 cents on the topic.
Pippa
06-13-07, 06:54 AM Try providing the party with magical items if you are affraid they are less versatile without arcane magic. Items with charges or # times per day uses if you are affraid of abuse.

If you realy want a npc that will assist the players but not so much as to they become spoiled, railroaded or secondairy characters, try Mr. Monkey.

Mr. Monkey is a free-spirited ape that can cast some arcane spells, for god knows what reasons. Sometimes he selflessly helps the party, sometimes he doesn't. Sometimes he charges fees for his spells. sometimes he doesn't do anything except when asked politely. And sometimes he isn't even there, having wandered off or going about his own business. Sometimes he's just lying around sleeping. Some say Mr. Monkey can talk like a human, but other claim that's just utter nonsense. It is quite odd, though, that the critter doens't like banana's or peanuts at all, fancying buttered scones with tea instead...

If this fits your needs, go ahead and find out if Mr. Monkey invites your players to roleplay npc interaction more. Make sure he doesn't become the star though.

This just for illustration that interesting doesn't always have to mean he can whirlwind attack, blindfight, or bullrush the tarasque, so to speak.
Sim_antix
06-13-07, 08:05 AM If you are going to run an NPC Ally with the party the last thing you want to do is think of it as the DMs PC. It is not your PC, it is an NPC that you have travelling with the party.

REPEAT: It is NOT your PC.

As long as you realize this then the potential for disaster is drastically reduced.
KJW
06-13-07, 08:09 AM Part of the problem is terminology. A NPC ally with the party is fine, DMPC is a term most use to reflect a NPC ally gone 'bad.' NPCs can be quite effective in rounding out a party, but with some caveats.

My first suggestion is that you as the DM should not be worried about the party composition. You control the world, NPCs, story arcs, and so forth, the players control the party. So first thing is to see if they want an arcane caster. If they do then give them a few options (maybe interviews) and let them pick and negotiate a deal with the arcane caster.

My second suggestion is that while you should not overshadow the PCs the NPCs needs to have a real personality and contribute to the party. You can also use the NPC to deliver flavor text, for example make the arcane caster a diviner. Diviners can greatly contribute to the party, but don't steal so much thunder in combat. Additionally, like I said, you can use your diviner to provide flavor text, i.e. diviner: "ah, yes, we have finally discovered the tomb of King Geldrin III...you may not know this, but King Geldrin was close friends with a red dragon who may still dwell in these parts." This gives the NPC a role and allows the DM to deliver all background information in character. I call this the Giles factor. :)

My third suggestion is to realize that if the players don't take an arcane caster that is their problem and not yours. As long as they have some freedom in what types of missions they pursue they can adjust and they can purchase equipment to offset the disadvantage. If they struggle they struggle, maybe down the road they hire a NPC caster or maybe when one of them die they decide to pick one up, but like I said this is for the party to deal with.
CCS
06-13-07, 11:47 AM I wouldn't worry about wether the group had a particular class or not. Afterall, had they wanted such a caster, one of them would have chosen to play one....
Btw, did they know about the rules changes when they made up the characters?

Anyways, as someone else said, so long as the players possess some sort of freedom within the game they'll adjust their play style to fit the abilities they do have. And if/when they really need an arcane caster they'll likely hire one. Or maybe they'll even multi-class. Who knows.

About DMPCs. Here's your problem. You're the DM. As such you don't have a PC. Even the main villains with all their special abilities, treasures, plans etc don't count as such! Your job is to run everything but. And you have to do so in a fair, intelligent, but neutral! way.
Not counting the main villains, what you do have are infinite NPCs that you get to use to populate the world and move the plot along as needed. Sometimes that does mean having certain NPCs accompny the heroes. But the trick is to not have them steal the players thunder - even if they ARE really important cogs in the story. and they have to be worked into the story in a believable manner. Not just added "because the party was short class type x".

NPCs are essentially the minor characters/supporting cast. They exist to add detail & flavour to the game, not BE the game.
Consider; if you were to make a movie poster for your game it's not their names that would appear across the top as the stars....No, most of them (excepting the villain) would be found in the small print of the credits.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
molten_dragon 06-13-07, 06:26 AM	Okay, I'm currently starting a new campaign in the homebrew campaign setting that I just finished. The biggest rule changes in the world revolve around the arcane spellcasting system. I have four players who are playing: Human Crusader Half-Elf Cleric Half-Orc Ranger Human Fighter/Rogue As you can see, the party has no arcane spellcasting ability whatsoever. It kind of worries me, because parties without a mage always seem to have a lot more problems than those with one in my experience. I'd also like to have a mage so the changes to the spellcasting system can be tried. However, I don't want to force any of the players to play something they don't want to. For that reason, I was thinking about having an NPC mage travel with the party. However, I have heard the horror stories about DMPCs and have run a couple myself in the past and they haven't done all that well. Usually, they were too bland and didn't help the party all that much because I was afraid of going to far the other direction and letting my npc rule the party. So, that being said, does anyone have any other suggestions about what I could do? Or any advice on running a DMPC if I should feel the need to? Thanks, MD
ishpu 06-13-07, 06:37 AM	well it seems like the biggest problem with dmpc's is the fact that you dont want them to overshadow the party, and they have to have a reason to be following the party and helping them all the time. i've had one sucessful dmpc and it really only worked with a single pc campaign. i think once you have multiple people there is less need for it. sure they might rest more but i'd advise you to not have a full time follower. maybe make a crafter or something to make them potions from time to time or something similar. if you want to have a mage with them i'd just say make sure he doesn't end up being the center of the party, maybe a bard would be a better choice to help increase everyones abilities and give a small ammount of healing? just my 2 cents on the topic.
Pippa 06-13-07, 06:54 AM	Try providing the party with magical items if you are affraid they are less versatile without arcane magic. Items with charges or # times per day uses if you are affraid of abuse. If you realy want a npc that will assist the players but not so much as to they become spoiled, railroaded or secondairy characters, try Mr. Monkey. Mr. Monkey is a free-spirited ape that can cast some arcane spells, for god knows what reasons. Sometimes he selflessly helps the party, sometimes he doesn't. Sometimes he charges fees for his spells. sometimes he doesn't do anything except when asked politely. And sometimes he isn't even there, having wandered off or going about his own business. Sometimes he's just lying around sleeping. Some say Mr. Monkey can talk like a human, but other claim that's just utter nonsense. It is quite odd, though, that the critter doens't like banana's or peanuts at all, fancying buttered scones with tea instead... If this fits your needs, go ahead and find out if Mr. Monkey invites your players to roleplay npc interaction more. Make sure he doesn't become the star though. This just for illustration that interesting doesn't always have to mean he can whirlwind attack, blindfight, or bullrush the tarasque, so to speak.
Sim_antix 06-13-07, 08:05 AM	If you are going to run an NPC Ally with the party the last thing you want to do is think of it as the DMs PC. It is not your PC, it is an NPC that you have travelling with the party. REPEAT: It is NOT your PC. As long as you realize this then the potential for disaster is drastically reduced.
KJW 06-13-07, 08:09 AM	Part of the problem is terminology. A NPC ally with the party is fine, DMPC is a term most use to reflect a NPC ally gone 'bad.' NPCs can be quite effective in rounding out a party, but with some caveats. My first suggestion is that you as the DM should not be worried about the party composition. You control the world, NPCs, story arcs, and so forth, the players control the party. So first thing is to see if they want an arcane caster. If they do then give them a few options (maybe interviews) and let them pick and negotiate a deal with the arcane caster. My second suggestion is that while you should not overshadow the PCs the NPCs needs to have a real personality and contribute to the party. You can also use the NPC to deliver flavor text, for example make the arcane caster a diviner. Diviners can greatly contribute to the party, but don't steal so much thunder in combat. Additionally, like I said, you can use your diviner to provide flavor text, i.e. diviner: "ah, yes, we have finally discovered the tomb of King Geldrin III...you may not know this, but King Geldrin was close friends with a red dragon who may still dwell in these parts." This gives the NPC a role and allows the DM to deliver all background information in character. I call this the Giles factor. :) My third suggestion is to realize that if the players don't take an arcane caster that is their problem and not yours. As long as they have some freedom in what types of missions they pursue they can adjust and they can purchase equipment to offset the disadvantage. If they struggle they struggle, maybe down the road they hire a NPC caster or maybe when one of them die they decide to pick one up, but like I said this is for the party to deal with.
CCS 06-13-07, 11:47 AM	I wouldn't worry about wether the group had a particular class or not. Afterall, had they wanted such a caster, one of them would have chosen to play one.... Btw, did they know about the rules changes when they made up the characters? Anyways, as someone else said, so long as the players possess some sort of freedom within the game they'll adjust their play style to fit the abilities they do have. And if/when they really need an arcane caster they'll likely hire one. Or maybe they'll even multi-class. Who knows. About DMPCs. Here's your problem. You're the DM. As such you don't have a PC. Even the main villains with all their special abilities, treasures, plans etc don't count as such! Your job is to run everything but. And you have to do so in a fair, intelligent, but neutral! way. Not counting the main villains, what you do have are infinite NPCs that you get to use to populate the world and move the plot along as needed. Sometimes that does mean having certain NPCs accompny the heroes. But the trick is to not have them steal the players thunder - even if they ARE really important cogs in the story. and they have to be worked into the story in a believable manner. Not just added "because the party was short class type x". NPCs are essentially the minor characters/supporting cast. They exist to add detail & flavour to the game, not BE the game. Consider; if you were to make a movie poster for your game it's not their names that would appear across the top as the stars....No, most of them (excepting the villain) would be found in the small print of the credits.