A Handful of Trouble [Archive] - Wizards Community

A Handful of Trouble [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Alac_Gane
02-16-07, 01:45 AM I've had several people telling me this is a bad idea, but I have a feeling it can work and that it can be fun.

A few friends of mine and I want to start a new campaign after my last one fell apart. They are three guys, and we're all relatively intelligent (perhaps a few of them are TOO intelligent) and mature guys (except for perhaps one), but I'm still worried.

At least two of them, if not all three, want to be rogues, and it's pretty much insisted on being in Eberron.

Normally, I wouldn't have much trouble with this, but one of them wants to be CE (I could probably get him to settle for CN), one wants to be N, and the last isn't really sure about what he wants.

Assuming all of them want to be rogues, does this sound doable? Can I pull an antihero or psuedo-evil campaign? All three of them are unsure of backstory, cohesion, and goals - does this sound like a recipe for disaster?
wolffman007
02-16-07, 08:38 AM yes it sounds doable, it just takes some work on your part & the players
they need to work together on this to make it fly

there was a thread on here (i dont recall the title currently, im sure someone else will chime in about it) that was about 3 halfling rogues, 3 different players came together & without each others knowlege made similiar characters, according to the thread it worked out rather well was lots of fun.

now granted the group will be lacking some variety, but sa la vie

besides think of their sneak attacking triangle of death, they might not do lots of damage individually, but......
goblin_pride
02-16-07, 09:00 AM Rogue-only campaigns can be some of the most fun. Think about it this way, you've got players wanting to play a gang of thieves that work together on a regular basis. Rogues don't really fit into an adventuring party as well as they do a thieves' guild and now you have all your players wanting to play one.

As for variety, look at a rogue's skills. In the group you could have one devoted to locks and traps, one devoted to confidence schemes, one devoted to sneaking and hiding and I'm sure one of your players will figure out that a rogue with a couple fighter levels would be a vicious knife-fighter, so you'll start seeing multiclass characters before long.

If you're using Sharn, your players could easily be the remains of a gang that was wiped out by one of the bigger thieves guilds and now they're looking to carve out a little pocket empire for themselves and get a bit of payback. Alternatively, they could play bounty hunters or vigilantes, out to wipe out the thieves' guilds before they become too much of a problem.

A Rogue-only game, where do I sign up?
UnderworldLord
02-16-07, 11:38 AM Sounds like fun, so long as you're careful. I'm with goblin_pride, where do I sign up?
Alac_Gane
02-16-07, 04:32 PM Haha, thanks for all of the cheering on, guys. I feel a bit more confident now, especially in seeing some similar ideas to the ones I had, myself.

The N human character is pretty interested in becoming renowned, possibly by finding powerful artifacts and riches, but I'm not sure about the other two. Any other ideas for cohesion? The other two will more than likely be humans as well.
goblin_pride
02-16-07, 05:33 PM Any other ideas for cohesion? The other two will more than likely be humans as well.

Cohesion? Dude, rogues. Wealth and power aren't enough motivation? I would think the thought of getting filthy stinking rich would motivate pretty much any rogue in the game into crossing heaven and hell.
UnderworldLord
02-16-07, 07:03 PM I played a spellthief who's sole motivation doing most things our crazy party did was 'just for the fun of it'. Treasure tends to be the next best bet though, and he was a half-daelkyr.
goblin_pride
02-16-07, 07:09 PM My character, Kethet Trollbait from Lordalm's game is a Dhakaani goblin fighter 2/rogue 2. I loved being in Sharn and showing off to the city goblins that being a goblin wasn't such a terrible life and that they could have so much more than they did if they would just stand up for themselves. And after the party gets back there, I'm going to start building myself a little empire in the bowels of the city.
UnderworldLord
02-16-07, 07:15 PM I was in a homebrew, and I ended up with the Yakuza right before I died :( . That would have been interesting... *kicks rock*
Alac_Gane
02-17-07, 05:34 PM Cohesion? Dude, rogues. Wealth and power aren't enough motivation? I would think the thought of getting filthy stinking rich would motivate pretty much any rogue in the game into crossing heaven and hell.

Well, a big dilemma is getting them together in the first place. I haven't had much luck getting two of the players interested, but if I get a good bit between at least the N and CN/CE rogues, the third person (and beyond) should be a bit easier to fit in.

The N rogue player and I discussed some things yesterday, one being that he could have been trained by a jerk of a father who tried to teach through example (ala Jecht from FFX - he's not that creative) and that the CN/CE rogue could be either a rival of his character/father or a friend/peer. We also discussed that his father might have been imprisoned, and that he might know of the location/details of riches (but how would his PC have found out about it at all?). It's a bit cliche and loose, but perhaps that's what we need.

Maybe I should rephrase this: what kinds of rogues have you made/thought of in the past, and how did they fit into the party? I just need a little inspiration, because that goes a long way for me.
AllWillFall2Me
02-17-07, 08:40 PM Well, the idea that springs to mind is this: the players are all that remain of a thieves' guild. The N rogue was the son of the leader, who was known for one unique thing. A la Unleashed, he had found a very young boy on the streets, and raised him as a vicious, intelligent guardian for his son. This explains the attachment between the CE rogue and the N rogue, especially if you can convince the CE to be more a combat rogue, and the N a charmer. The others could be friends or hangers-on of the Prince-Errant of the guild, who have stuck by him in hopes of advancement.
goblin_pride
02-18-07, 01:38 AM Maybe I should rephrase this: what kinds of rogues have you made/thought of in the past, and how did they fit into the party? I just need a little inspiration, because that goes a long way for me.

If you can get your hands on a copy of the old second edition Complete Thief's Handbook, you'll have more than enough material to choke a horse. The writers of that were really quite thorough in covering all the bases.
Alac_Gane
03-01-07, 06:42 PM I've gotten the two rogues settled in CN and N, and the other player wants to make a sorcerer that will more than likely follow this pattern.

Hopefully this will go well; thank you for all your help, and more is always appreciated!
Vharuck
03-02-07, 04:16 PM I've settled on leaving the party's origin and relationships solely to the players, offering my advice only when I think it would complement their ideas or if specifically asked. This usually leads to a story that all the players enjoy (especially since they came up with it) and to the rule that "you are playing a social game as a party; if your character wants to be a loner or not a team player, he can leave and you will roll up a more group-friendly character."
loseth
03-06-07, 11:26 AM All-rogue is just fine. It means that the party can do a lot of Sec-Ops stuff that normal parties couldn't. However, I'd be careful with CE PCs or players who want to play their character as a backstabbing SoBs. I'd push the players to agree beforehand on one or more background elements that give all the PCs very strong motivation to stay together and aid each other (e.g. a curse placed on all three of them that gets stronger with time, and especially each time one of them dies).
Vharuck
03-06-07, 05:19 PM Yes, and CE does not mean crazy. It just means that he doesn't particularly enjoy structure, favoring spontaneity and freedom, and is self-centered.
goblin_pride
03-06-07, 09:44 PM Yes, and CE does not mean crazy. It just means that he doesn't particularly enjoy structure, favoring spontaneity and freedom, and is self-centered.

Selfish and unpredictable, a dangerous combination.
UnderworldLord
03-07-07, 11:03 AM Sounds like fun. Unfortunately, too many people indulge in the 'evil' aspect to make the more interesting ones like that.
goblin_pride
03-09-07, 05:23 PM I played a Chaotic Neutral thief back in the second ed that was rather fun, he wouldn't think twice about killing anyone that came between him and a big score but he used the money that he stole from pretty much anyone and everyone to support the orphanage that he grew up in. It got to be real fun towards the end when the orphans started coming to him to help.
korcheck
03-09-07, 11:45 PM my friend and i joined a group for a while and played a pair of rogues both LE. the campaign revolved around an expidition into the underdark for trade and profit the whole group wasn't exactly all evil just immoral maybe. anyway the two of us frightened the rest of the players a bit by making bad good between the two of us and oh beautiful flanking we were taking out anything that moved (until the DM decided that alot gelatin cube things were just perfect for us lol) one of the other players was also a rogue and tried to rob us that was when we got dirty she was protected by the rest of the group so we got even in other ways instead like turning the deal sour and taking it from the group leader anyway we don't play with them anymore and they all learned a very valuable lesson.
don't **** off a couple of rogues if they are better in every skill you possess, we can't standup to a fighter but we don't have to either. ;)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Alac_Gane 02-16-07, 01:45 AM	I've had several people telling me this is a bad idea, but I have a feeling it can work and that it can be fun. A few friends of mine and I want to start a new campaign after my last one fell apart. They are three guys, and we're all relatively intelligent (perhaps a few of them are TOO intelligent) and mature guys (except for perhaps one), but I'm still worried. At least two of them, if not all three, want to be rogues, and it's pretty much insisted on being in Eberron. Normally, I wouldn't have much trouble with this, but one of them wants to be CE (I could probably get him to settle for CN), one wants to be N, and the last isn't really sure about what he wants. Assuming all of them want to be rogues, does this sound doable? Can I pull an antihero or psuedo-evil campaign? All three of them are unsure of backstory, cohesion, and goals - does this sound like a recipe for disaster?
wolffman007 02-16-07, 08:38 AM	yes it sounds doable, it just takes some work on your part & the players they need to work together on this to make it fly there was a thread on here (i dont recall the title currently, im sure someone else will chime in about it) that was about 3 halfling rogues, 3 different players came together & without each others knowlege made similiar characters, according to the thread it worked out rather well was lots of fun. now granted the group will be lacking some variety, but sa la vie besides think of their sneak attacking triangle of death, they might not do lots of damage individually, but......
goblin_pride 02-16-07, 09:00 AM	Rogue-only campaigns can be some of the most fun. Think about it this way, you've got players wanting to play a gang of thieves that work together on a regular basis. Rogues don't really fit into an adventuring party as well as they do a thieves' guild and now you have all your players wanting to play one. As for variety, look at a rogue's skills. In the group you could have one devoted to locks and traps, one devoted to confidence schemes, one devoted to sneaking and hiding and I'm sure one of your players will figure out that a rogue with a couple fighter levels would be a vicious knife-fighter, so you'll start seeing multiclass characters before long. If you're using Sharn, your players could easily be the remains of a gang that was wiped out by one of the bigger thieves guilds and now they're looking to carve out a little pocket empire for themselves and get a bit of payback. Alternatively, they could play bounty hunters or vigilantes, out to wipe out the thieves' guilds before they become too much of a problem. A Rogue-only game, where do I sign up?
UnderworldLord 02-16-07, 11:38 AM	Sounds like fun, so long as you're careful. I'm with goblin_pride, where do I sign up?
Alac_Gane 02-16-07, 04:32 PM	Haha, thanks for all of the cheering on, guys. I feel a bit more confident now, especially in seeing some similar ideas to the ones I had, myself. The N human character is pretty interested in becoming renowned, possibly by finding powerful artifacts and riches, but I'm not sure about the other two. Any other ideas for cohesion? The other two will more than likely be humans as well.
goblin_pride 02-16-07, 05:33 PM	Any other ideas for cohesion? The other two will more than likely be humans as well. Cohesion? Dude, rogues. Wealth and power aren't enough motivation? I would think the thought of getting filthy stinking rich would motivate pretty much any rogue in the game into crossing heaven and hell.
UnderworldLord 02-16-07, 07:03 PM	I played a spellthief who's sole motivation doing most things our crazy party did was 'just for the fun of it'. Treasure tends to be the next best bet though, and he was a half-daelkyr.
goblin_pride 02-16-07, 07:09 PM	My character, Kethet Trollbait from Lordalm's game is a Dhakaani goblin fighter 2/rogue 2. I loved being in Sharn and showing off to the city goblins that being a goblin wasn't such a terrible life and that they could have so much more than they did if they would just stand up for themselves. And after the party gets back there, I'm going to start building myself a little empire in the bowels of the city.
UnderworldLord 02-16-07, 07:15 PM	I was in a homebrew, and I ended up with the Yakuza right before I died :( . That would have been interesting... kicks rock
Alac_Gane 02-17-07, 05:34 PM	Cohesion? Dude, rogues. Wealth and power aren't enough motivation? I would think the thought of getting filthy stinking rich would motivate pretty much any rogue in the game into crossing heaven and hell. Well, a big dilemma is getting them together in the first place. I haven't had much luck getting two of the players interested, but if I get a good bit between at least the N and CN/CE rogues, the third person (and beyond) should be a bit easier to fit in. The N rogue player and I discussed some things yesterday, one being that he could have been trained by a jerk of a father who tried to teach through example (ala Jecht from FFX - he's not that creative) and that the CN/CE rogue could be either a rival of his character/father or a friend/peer. We also discussed that his father might have been imprisoned, and that he might know of the location/details of riches (but how would his PC have found out about it at all?). It's a bit cliche and loose, but perhaps that's what we need. Maybe I should rephrase this: what kinds of rogues have you made/thought of in the past, and how did they fit into the party? I just need a little inspiration, because that goes a long way for me.
AllWillFall2Me 02-17-07, 08:40 PM	Well, the idea that springs to mind is this: the players are all that remain of a thieves' guild. The N rogue was the son of the leader, who was known for one unique thing. A la Unleashed, he had found a very young boy on the streets, and raised him as a vicious, intelligent guardian for his son. This explains the attachment between the CE rogue and the N rogue, especially if you can convince the CE to be more a combat rogue, and the N a charmer. The others could be friends or hangers-on of the Prince-Errant of the guild, who have stuck by him in hopes of advancement.
goblin_pride 02-18-07, 01:38 AM	Maybe I should rephrase this: what kinds of rogues have you made/thought of in the past, and how did they fit into the party? I just need a little inspiration, because that goes a long way for me. If you can get your hands on a copy of the old second edition Complete Thief's Handbook, you'll have more than enough material to choke a horse. The writers of that were really quite thorough in covering all the bases.
Alac_Gane 03-01-07, 06:42 PM	I've gotten the two rogues settled in CN and N, and the other player wants to make a sorcerer that will more than likely follow this pattern. Hopefully this will go well; thank you for all your help, and more is always appreciated!
Vharuck 03-02-07, 04:16 PM	I've settled on leaving the party's origin and relationships solely to the players, offering my advice only when I think it would complement their ideas or if specifically asked. This usually leads to a story that all the players enjoy (especially since they came up with it) and to the rule that "you are playing a social game as a party; if your character wants to be a loner or not a team player, he can leave and you will roll up a more group-friendly character."
loseth 03-06-07, 11:26 AM	All-rogue is just fine. It means that the party can do a lot of Sec-Ops stuff that normal parties couldn't. However, I'd be careful with CE PCs or players who want to play their character as a backstabbing SoBs. I'd push the players to agree beforehand on one or more background elements that give all the PCs very strong motivation to stay together and aid each other (e.g. a curse placed on all three of them that gets stronger with time, and especially each time one of them dies).
Vharuck 03-06-07, 05:19 PM	Yes, and CE does not mean crazy. It just means that he doesn't particularly enjoy structure, favoring spontaneity and freedom, and is self-centered.
goblin_pride 03-06-07, 09:44 PM	Yes, and CE does not mean crazy. It just means that he doesn't particularly enjoy structure, favoring spontaneity and freedom, and is self-centered. Selfish and unpredictable, a dangerous combination.
UnderworldLord 03-07-07, 11:03 AM	Sounds like fun. Unfortunately, too many people indulge in the 'evil' aspect to make the more interesting ones like that.
goblin_pride 03-09-07, 05:23 PM	I played a Chaotic Neutral thief back in the second ed that was rather fun, he wouldn't think twice about killing anyone that came between him and a big score but he used the money that he stole from pretty much anyone and everyone to support the orphanage that he grew up in. It got to be real fun towards the end when the orphans started coming to him to help.
korcheck 03-09-07, 11:45 PM	my friend and i joined a group for a while and played a pair of rogues both LE. the campaign revolved around an expidition into the underdark for trade and profit the whole group wasn't exactly all evil just immoral maybe. anyway the two of us frightened the rest of the players a bit by making bad good between the two of us and oh beautiful flanking we were taking out anything that moved (until the DM decided that alot gelatin cube things were just perfect for us lol) one of the other players was also a rogue and tried to rob us that was when we got dirty she was protected by the rest of the group so we got even in other ways instead like turning the deal sour and taking it from the group leader anyway we don't play with them anymore and they all learned a very valuable lesson. don't **** off a couple of rogues if they are better in every skill you possess, we can't standup to a fighter but we don't have to either. ;)