Arcaneforged - New Warforged Subrace or Warforged Feat? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Arcaneforged - New Warforged Subrace or Warforged Feat? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
ColtFlenn
02-15-08, 11:45 AM Ok, here's the deal: I have a player (same one that requested the Storm Rider lol) who has suggested a warforged who are created more from magic than other warforged and use can cast spells better, but has spells (both good and bad) cast on him work better. This version is also dependent on magic and if it doesnt have a certain stone it will begin to become disabled. Now, again, he tried to make it and failed horribly so I thought that i would try, but couldnt decide. Many of the versions of warforged are varied by the multiple feats they can take, so that was my first thought, but then again wasnt sure if a feat would be quite right. I'll post the stats for my idea and give me some feed back as to the answer: Feat or New Race?

Arcaneforged Abilities:
• Forged From Magic: The Arcaneforged were made to practice magic and it has a greater impact on their being than a normal warforged. This allows them to harness it differently than a normal warforged or other races. But it also produces several cons that hinder the Arcaneforged
*- Arcane Dependency: An Arcaneforged are highly dependent on magic to survive. An Arcaneforged without its Arcanestone become weak after 24 hours, this dependency gives the Arcaneforged a –4 on all charisma-based skills. After the second 24 hours, she receives a –2 to its charisma score and a –2 Wisdom (in addition to the racial penalty). Beyond 48 hours of depravation, she then begins to take 1d6 points of damage per hour beyond 48.
*- Sustained by Arcane: If an Arcaneforged is caught in an Antimagic Field or in a dead magic zone, he loses 1d6 hp per minute (10 rounds).
*- Arcane Affinity: An Arcaneforged receives a +2 spellcaster level on arcane spells it casts. This ability is lost if the Arcaneforged loses its Arcanestone for longer than 24 hours.
*- Magically Inclined: When an Arcaneforged reaches 3 HD, they unlock the ability to some spell-like abilities. The Arcaneforged gains a number of 0 and/or 1st level arcane spells equal to its charisma modifier. These spells are cast at a caster level equal to the Arcaneforged’s character level. The spell-like abilities are each usable once per day. This ability is lost if the Arcaneforged loses its Arcanestone for longer than 12 hours.
*- Arcane Being: All spells that target the Arcaneforged directly (target personal or creature, melee touch attack, ray - not area spells) are cast at +2 spellcaster level.
*- Arcane Field: An Arcaneforged generates a magic field that gives it a deflection bonus to Armor Class equal to half its Charisma modifier (minimum +1). This power is always active and has a caster level equal to the arcaneforged's Hit Dice. If the field is negated or suppressed, the arcaneforged can activate it again as a free action on its next turn. This ability is lost if the Arcaneforged loses its Arcanestone for longer than 12 hours.
• Composite Plating: The plating used to build an Arcaneforged is weaker and less protective than its cousins’ and only provides a +1 armor bonus instead of the Standard +2 and has no arcane spell failure.

Again this whole thing is experimental and i am open to any kind of CONSTRUCTIVE critism and help to improve it. If anyone has seen my Blood Elf race, I did take some of it for this aswell, seeings how it would be better suited for the Arcaneforged as well an original idea.
Selgard
02-15-08, 12:52 PM What is the "arcane stone"? How is it crafted? is it an embedded component? a necklace? Their heart, or what?

Magically Inclined:
Do they gain them if they increase their int/cha bonus? What about temporary bonuses?
Do they select the spells once? each day? or?

Arcane Field:
what "serpent?"
Also: No. Too powerful. Perhaps a bonus to resistance equal to 1/4 or something? (armor bonus to caster? why?)

Composite Plating:
Again, No. Just give them (for free) the feat that gives them No plating.
(i.e. no armor, no AF, no APC: but they CAN wear robes). Overall much more useful to a caster than +1 armor.

___________

Feat or Type.

I would say Type. And then give feats to alter/adjust. There is already one prestige class tuned for castery Warforged (forget the name of it though off hand.. think it's in Races of Eberron).

Tryin to be helpful :) I like the idea overall.

just my $.02

ps. for a "divine version" contemplate something that would let healing spells *they cast themselves* operate maybe at 75% instead of half, or whatnot..
just ideas :)

-S
Syltorian
02-15-08, 01:06 PM I'd make it a race, rather than a feat, or else, a series of feats making the spell-like abilities and the deflection bonus separate feats from the original 'body feat', arcaneforged. A single feat granting spell-like abilities and a deflection bonus to AC and a +2 caster bonus seems a bit much to me, even with the easily exploitable flaws built in.

Arcane Dependency: An Arcaneforged are highly dependent on magic to survive. An Arcaneforged without its Arcanestone become weak after 24 hours, this dependency gives the Arcaneforged a –4 on all charisma-based skills. After the second 24 hours, she receives a –2 to its charisma score and a –2 Wisdom (in addition to the racial penalty). Beyond 48 hours of depravation, she then begins to take 1d6 points of damage per hour beyond 48.

How easy is it to remove or lose an arcanestone? Is it embedded, or does it have to carry it around like a spell-focus? Can the 'forged hide it, or does it have to be worn somewhere within view, unobstructed for its magic to work? This is important to know in order to assess how dangerous this really is for the 'forged.

I'd make the first penalty "-4 on all charisma-based skills and checks", and possibly to other elements. Caster level, for example, or save DCs for the forged's spells. Charisma checks are not useless, but too easy to ignore to be that significant a penalty, and if the 'forged is not the party spokesperson, it might be willing to risk this.

To me, it seems as though the 'forged is essentially 'breathing' magic, so I'd be inclined to make the penalty even harder and akin to drowning, but as a balance make the arcanestone hard to remove. Except by dispelling or antimagic zones.

It is also unclear what the difference between "after the second 24 hours" and "beyond 48 hours" is. The way this reads is that the 'forged takes no ill effects for the first 24 hours, then the skill penalties until 48 hours, and then -2 to Cha and Wis as well as 1d6 points of damage. Nothing wrong with that, but the phrasing is strange.

*- Sustained by Arcane: If an Arcaneforged is caught in an Antimagic Field or in a dead magic zone, he loses 1d6 hp per minute (10 rounds).

As said above, I'd make it more severe than that - based on drowning, perhaps. Antimagic Fields are not that frequent, and perhaps less so than the many ways a breathing creature can suffocate. The magic required to create a dead-magic zone is quite high-level, and out of reach for most things in Eberron, so outside of specific adventure-related regions, it will not come up much.

This also begs the question how the 'forged would be affected by dispel magic, wild magic zones (manifest zones to Kythri, I believe, can have this effect) and magic-drain abilities of various creatures (nightshades, etc).

*- Magically Inclined: When an Arcaneforged reaches 3 HD, they unlock the ability to some spell-like abilities. The Arcaneforged gains a number of 0 and/or 1st level arcane spells equal to its charisma modifier. These spells are cast at a caster level equal to the Arcaneforged’s character level. The spell-like abilities are each usable once per day. This ability is lost if the Arcaneforged loses its Arcanestone for longer than 12 hours.

OK - as a race, not a feat, since this is worth a feat all by itself and better than the Complete Arcane ones that grant spell-like abilities. But either make the loss of the arcanestone more serious (as I suggested above), or have the effects happen after the same timespan. Remembering what is to happen after 12, 24 and 48 hours begins to be a lot of book keeping. Doable, yes, but you want to be as little complicated as you can while still keeping your ideas.

*- Arcane Being: All spells that target the Arcaneforged directly (target personal or creature, melee touch attack, ray - not area spells) are cast at +2 spellcaster level.

I like that. I'd consider applying it to area-spells too, though, but the caster level increase only affects the warforged, for good or ill.

*- Arcane Field: An Arcaneforged generates a magic field that gives it a deflection bonus to Armor Class equal to half its Charisma modifier (minimum +1). This power is always active and has a caster level equal to the serpent's Hit Dice. If the field is negated or suppressed, the serpent can activate it again as a free action on its next turn. This ability is lost if the Arcaneforged loses its Arcanestone for longer than 12 hours.

This is quite powerful, especially if the forged keeps Composite Plating. I'd agree with Selgard that this might simply be too powerful. Warforged do get a charisma penalty, sure, but they can increase it with items and levelling. Also, deflection is better than armor bonus. I'd also have this ability, if it is kept, prevent the arcaneforged from taking a bodyfeat.

About the 12 hours, see my comment above.

Also, remove the references to serpents. ;)
TheKeyofE
02-15-08, 09:17 PM *- Arcane Affinity: An Arcaneforged receives a +2 spellcaster level on arcane spells it casts. This ability is lost if the Arcaneforged loses its Arcanestone for longer than 24 hours.

+2 caster level is HUGE, and needs to be reduced. Even a +1 is pretty strong.
Edymnion
02-15-08, 09:54 PM This sounds more like a PrC than it does a race or feat.
Lord_Zeal
02-15-08, 11:26 PM Psiforged are not even that powered up. Tell them most of it can be thought of as fluff, use templates available, like the warmage with alternate adaptive learning, or the duskblade. The best way to go is warlock warforged. Nothing says arcaneforged more than an eldritch blast. try adapting it and selling that to the player, other than that i would just say no.

There are good set of spell like abilities that are in feats in the Complete Arcane.

I would be suspect on how different a Arcane Stone effect a warforged versus an embedded siberys, eberron, or khyber shard effects a warforged.

if the player tries realy hard he can the same outcome with prewritten material.
His idea of bonus caster level vs. hp loss dont even add up
kelvinaw273
02-16-08, 12:16 PM I have to say, I can't see the point. I mean, all warforged are made by magic anyway, and those that are made to practice arcane magic have the Unarmoured Body feat.
angelofsorrow66
02-16-08, 03:57 PM Arcaneforged should be a prestige class!

ive got a question for you. Im building a sort of fiendish sorcerer with dread necromancer-ish (HoH) powers, chief among them the ability to become a half-fiend at 20th. im stumped on what i can do to further the class. I also can't decide whether or not to use spells, or something totally unique. any ideas?
kelvinaw273
02-17-08, 07:46 AM Arcaneforged should be a prestige class!

ive got a question for you. Im building a sort of fiendish sorcerer with dread necromancer-ish (HoH) powers, chief among them the ability to become a half-fiend at 20th. im stumped on what i can do to further the class. I also can't decide whether or not to use spells, or something totally unique. any ideas?

Make it a prestige class like the dragon disciple?
angelofsorrow66
02-17-08, 05:22 PM i thought about it, but then it would be too much like the acolyte of the skin (CArc)
Edymnion
02-21-08, 03:46 PM i thought about it, but then it would be too much like the acolyte of the skin (CArc)It is almost always better to modify an existing item than it is to try to make a new one from scratch.

As is, this thing is just too powerful and complex to be a racial thing.
It either needs to be toned down considerably, or made into a PrC, IMO.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ColtFlenn 02-15-08, 11:45 AM	Ok, here's the deal: I have a player (same one that requested the Storm Rider lol) who has suggested a warforged who are created more from magic than other warforged and use can cast spells better, but has spells (both good and bad) cast on him work better. This version is also dependent on magic and if it doesnt have a certain stone it will begin to become disabled. Now, again, he tried to make it and failed horribly so I thought that i would try, but couldnt decide. Many of the versions of warforged are varied by the multiple feats they can take, so that was my first thought, but then again wasnt sure if a feat would be quite right. I'll post the stats for my idea and give me some feed back as to the answer: Feat or New Race? Arcaneforged Abilities: • Forged From Magic: The Arcaneforged were made to practice magic and it has a greater impact on their being than a normal warforged. This allows them to harness it differently than a normal warforged or other races. But it also produces several cons that hinder the Arcaneforged - Arcane Dependency: An Arcaneforged are highly dependent on magic to survive. An Arcaneforged without its Arcanestone become weak after 24 hours, this dependency gives the Arcaneforged a –4 on all charisma-based skills. After the second 24 hours, she receives a –2 to its charisma score and a –2 Wisdom (in addition to the racial penalty). Beyond 48 hours of depravation, she then begins to take 1d6 points of damage per hour beyond 48. - Sustained by Arcane: If an Arcaneforged is caught in an Antimagic Field or in a dead magic zone, he loses 1d6 hp per minute (10 rounds). - Arcane Affinity: An Arcaneforged receives a +2 spellcaster level on arcane spells it casts. This ability is lost if the Arcaneforged loses its Arcanestone for longer than 24 hours. - Magically Inclined: When an Arcaneforged reaches 3 HD, they unlock the ability to some spell-like abilities. The Arcaneforged gains a number of 0 and/or 1st level arcane spells equal to its charisma modifier. These spells are cast at a caster level equal to the Arcaneforged’s character level. The spell-like abilities are each usable once per day. This ability is lost if the Arcaneforged loses its Arcanestone for longer than 12 hours. - Arcane Being: All spells that target the Arcaneforged directly (target personal or creature, melee touch attack, ray - not area spells) are cast at +2 spellcaster level. - Arcane Field: An Arcaneforged generates a magic field that gives it a deflection bonus to Armor Class equal to half its Charisma modifier (minimum +1). This power is always active and has a caster level equal to the arcaneforged's Hit Dice. If the field is negated or suppressed, the arcaneforged can activate it again as a free action on its next turn. This ability is lost if the Arcaneforged loses its Arcanestone for longer than 12 hours. • Composite Plating: The plating used to build an Arcaneforged is weaker and less protective than its cousins’ and only provides a +1 armor bonus instead of the Standard +2 and has no arcane spell failure. Again this whole thing is experimental and i am open to any kind of CONSTRUCTIVE critism and help to improve it. If anyone has seen my Blood Elf race, I did take some of it for this aswell, seeings how it would be better suited for the Arcaneforged as well an original idea.
Selgard 02-15-08, 12:52 PM	What is the "arcane stone"? How is it crafted? is it an embedded component? a necklace? Their heart, or what? Magically Inclined: Do they gain them if they increase their int/cha bonus? What about temporary bonuses? Do they select the spells once? each day? or? Arcane Field: what "serpent?" Also: No. Too powerful. Perhaps a bonus to resistance equal to 1/4 or something? (armor bonus to caster? why?) Composite Plating: Again, No. Just give them (for free) the feat that gives them No plating. (i.e. no armor, no AF, no APC: but they CAN wear robes). Overall much more useful to a caster than +1 armor. ___________ Feat or Type. I would say Type. And then give feats to alter/adjust. There is already one prestige class tuned for castery Warforged (forget the name of it though off hand.. think it's in Races of Eberron). Tryin to be helpful :) I like the idea overall. just my $.02 ps. for a "divine version" contemplate something that would let healing spells they cast themselves operate maybe at 75% instead of half, or whatnot.. just ideas :) -S
Syltorian 02-15-08, 01:06 PM	I'd make it a race, rather than a feat, or else, a series of feats making the spell-like abilities and the deflection bonus separate feats from the original 'body feat', arcaneforged. A single feat granting spell-like abilities and a deflection bonus to AC and a +2 caster bonus seems a bit much to me, even with the easily exploitable flaws built in. Arcane Dependency: An Arcaneforged are highly dependent on magic to survive. An Arcaneforged without its Arcanestone become weak after 24 hours, this dependency gives the Arcaneforged a –4 on all charisma-based skills. After the second 24 hours, she receives a –2 to its charisma score and a –2 Wisdom (in addition to the racial penalty). Beyond 48 hours of depravation, she then begins to take 1d6 points of damage per hour beyond 48. How easy is it to remove or lose an arcanestone? Is it embedded, or does it have to carry it around like a spell-focus? Can the 'forged hide it, or does it have to be worn somewhere within view, unobstructed for its magic to work? This is important to know in order to assess how dangerous this really is for the 'forged. I'd make the first penalty "-4 on all charisma-based skills and checks", and possibly to other elements. Caster level, for example, or save DCs for the forged's spells. Charisma checks are not useless, but too easy to ignore to be that significant a penalty, and if the 'forged is not the party spokesperson, it might be willing to risk this. To me, it seems as though the 'forged is essentially 'breathing' magic, so I'd be inclined to make the penalty even harder and akin to drowning, but as a balance make the arcanestone hard to remove. Except by dispelling or antimagic zones. It is also unclear what the difference between "after the second 24 hours" and "beyond 48 hours" is. The way this reads is that the 'forged takes no ill effects for the first 24 hours, then the skill penalties until 48 hours, and then -2 to Cha and Wis as well as 1d6 points of damage. Nothing wrong with that, but the phrasing is strange. - Sustained by Arcane: If an Arcaneforged is caught in an Antimagic Field or in a dead magic zone, he loses 1d6 hp per minute (10 rounds). As said above, I'd make it more severe than that - based on drowning, perhaps. Antimagic Fields are not that frequent, and perhaps less so than the many ways a breathing creature can suffocate. The magic required to create a dead-magic zone is quite high-level, and out of reach for most things in Eberron, so outside of specific adventure-related regions, it will not come up much. This also begs the question how the 'forged would be affected by dispel magic, wild magic zones (manifest zones to Kythri, I believe, can have this effect) and magic-drain abilities of various creatures (nightshades, etc). - Magically Inclined: When an Arcaneforged reaches 3 HD, they unlock the ability to some spell-like abilities. The Arcaneforged gains a number of 0 and/or 1st level arcane spells equal to its charisma modifier. These spells are cast at a caster level equal to the Arcaneforged’s character level. The spell-like abilities are each usable once per day. This ability is lost if the Arcaneforged loses its Arcanestone for longer than 12 hours. OK - as a race, not a feat, since this is worth a feat all by itself and better than the Complete Arcane ones that grant spell-like abilities. But either make the loss of the arcanestone more serious (as I suggested above), or have the effects happen after the same timespan. Remembering what is to happen after 12, 24 and 48 hours begins to be a lot of book keeping. Doable, yes, but you want to be as little complicated as you can while still keeping your ideas. - Arcane Being: All spells that target the Arcaneforged directly (target personal or creature, melee touch attack, ray - not area spells) are cast at +2 spellcaster level. I like that. I'd consider applying it to area-spells too, though, but the caster level increase only affects the warforged, for good or ill. - Arcane Field: An Arcaneforged generates a magic field that gives it a deflection bonus to Armor Class equal to half its Charisma modifier (minimum +1). This power is always active and has a caster level equal to the serpent's Hit Dice. If the field is negated or suppressed, the serpent can activate it again as a free action on its next turn. This ability is lost if the Arcaneforged loses its Arcanestone for longer than 12 hours. This is quite powerful, especially if the forged keeps Composite Plating. I'd agree with Selgard that this might simply be too powerful. Warforged do get a charisma penalty, sure, but they can increase it with items and levelling. Also, deflection is better than armor bonus. I'd also have this ability, if it is kept, prevent the arcaneforged from taking a bodyfeat. About the 12 hours, see my comment above. Also, remove the references to serpents. ;)
TheKeyofE 02-15-08, 09:17 PM	*- Arcane Affinity: An Arcaneforged receives a +2 spellcaster level on arcane spells it casts. This ability is lost if the Arcaneforged loses its Arcanestone for longer than 24 hours. +2 caster level is HUGE, and needs to be reduced. Even a +1 is pretty strong.
Edymnion 02-15-08, 09:54 PM	This sounds more like a PrC than it does a race or feat.
Lord_Zeal 02-15-08, 11:26 PM	Psiforged are not even that powered up. Tell them most of it can be thought of as fluff, use templates available, like the warmage with alternate adaptive learning, or the duskblade. The best way to go is warlock warforged. Nothing says arcaneforged more than an eldritch blast. try adapting it and selling that to the player, other than that i would just say no. There are good set of spell like abilities that are in feats in the Complete Arcane. I would be suspect on how different a Arcane Stone effect a warforged versus an embedded siberys, eberron, or khyber shard effects a warforged. if the player tries realy hard he can the same outcome with prewritten material. His idea of bonus caster level vs. hp loss dont even add up
kelvinaw273 02-16-08, 12:16 PM	I have to say, I can't see the point. I mean, all warforged are made by magic anyway, and those that are made to practice arcane magic have the Unarmoured Body feat.
angelofsorrow66 02-16-08, 03:57 PM	Arcaneforged should be a prestige class! ive got a question for you. Im building a sort of fiendish sorcerer with dread necromancer-ish (HoH) powers, chief among them the ability to become a half-fiend at 20th. im stumped on what i can do to further the class. I also can't decide whether or not to use spells, or something totally unique. any ideas?
kelvinaw273 02-17-08, 07:46 AM	Arcaneforged should be a prestige class! ive got a question for you. Im building a sort of fiendish sorcerer with dread necromancer-ish (HoH) powers, chief among them the ability to become a half-fiend at 20th. im stumped on what i can do to further the class. I also can't decide whether or not to use spells, or something totally unique. any ideas? Make it a prestige class like the dragon disciple?
angelofsorrow66 02-17-08, 05:22 PM	i thought about it, but then it would be too much like the acolyte of the skin (CArc)
Edymnion 02-21-08, 03:46 PM	i thought about it, but then it would be too much like the acolyte of the skin (CArc)It is almost always better to modify an existing item than it is to try to make a new one from scratch. As is, this thing is just too powerful and complex to be a racial thing. It either needs to be toned down considerably, or made into a PrC, IMO.