Battling the Quori [Archive] - Wizards Community

Battling the Quori [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
JoshuaWilhoyte
02-28-07, 03:22 PM A friend of mine was looking for some help, and since I'm on here occasionally and he's not, I thought I'd get some professional help. Their campaign involves the Quori starting wars in Khorvaire, sending in possessed spies and assassins, etc. And his group is battling them. Now, the DM takes rules liberties, so there's no telling how anything actually work. However, his character has more Knowledge Planar than he or I do, so we're looking to see what can be done. Not on a war front, but in a normal game.

How can you tell if someone has been possessed?

How can you unpossess someone?

If you get the Quori out, can you then do something to it?

If you kill a Quori once you get it out of the host, is it dead? Or do they come back?

thanks for all the help,
Melvin the Mediocre
02-28-07, 03:41 PM Barring answers from some one who can actually look up mechanics, here are my responses from memory.

How can you tell if someone has been possessed?
From movies I've seen, their heads spin around and they vomit alot. In game I suspect watching for odd behavior would be the first clue. Then spells like detect thought and true seeing might work better.

How can you unpossess someone? For starters, look at the Exorcist of the Silver Flame prestige class. As I recall, there is also an exorcist prestige class in the complete divine.

If you get the Quori out, can you then do something to it? Getting the Quori out should just push it back to it's plane. To actually fight it, you would need to follow it home. The book and class name escape me at the moment, but one of the Kalashtar oriented prestige classes actually gives you some ability to battle the quori directly. I think it may be a matter of expelling the thing and then plane travelling along behind it. Hopefully some one with a better memory or access to their books can give you a pointer as to where to look.

If you kill a Quori once you get it out of the host, is it dead? Or do they come back? They come back, and not for milk and cookies :eek:
Actually I can't back that up. I believe killing the thing on it's home plane does it in for good.
SSj3goblin
02-28-07, 03:48 PM Actually I can't back that up. I believe killing hte thing on it's home plane does it in for good.

Killing a Quori will only cause it to be remade into a new one of the exact same race hours/days/weeks later. So their numbers are static but you could not just kill them all to get rid of the "Quori threat".
Ehtiar
03-06-07, 08:28 PM Of course, killing a Quori basically results in it being reincarnated... The key thing there.. is that its a totally new Quori.. so it doesn't know anything that the Quori you killed did....
So, you disrupt his plans, he won't know who did it, he won't even know what plans there were that were disrupted... (at least, until/unless other Quori tell him about it.. which they might not).
So if you could force a chunk of the Quori in a region to be "reincarnated" you'd start messing up some of those long range plots and designs ...since it's possible for them to lose track of whats going on....

Sure, it would be murder to try it on a large number of Quori...but in the small term..take every benefit you can :cool:
Cifer
03-09-07, 04:01 PM Plus, the new one wouldn't have the experience of the old one, meaning that it gets simpler to kill him again. However, it's unknown how many Quori there actually are, so trying this tactic may require a veritable genocide.

In case the Quori already can go to Eberron physically, my favorite idea has always been to send something back to them - specifically, to open a manifest zone of Dal'Quor inside the Mournlands.
Shady314
03-09-07, 05:03 PM Sadly there are no rules for exactly how the reincarnation of outsiders works so it's going to be up to your DM. Especially if he messes with the rules like you say. Some say they reform quickly, some slowly or that the more powerful the outsider the slower it reforms. Once reformed does it regain its full strength immediately? at an accelerated pace? same as every other? Does it get all it's memories back? All but they are jumbled? Etc. So part of fighting them will be figuring out how effective killing the Quori itself is which only your DM can tell you. No matter what it's a total waste of time. On Eberron you want to bind powerful outsiders. Not kill them. Once bound they are trapped and never reform and never threaten you again. Provided they aren't released.

Luckily there's a tried and true method that is always effective and that is killing their hosts. The current Quori (assuming your DM hasn't changed it) can only posses willing humans with high enough charisma scores (believe it must equal the posessing entities charisma) or Inspired. Then there are the Inspired bred specifically for individual Quori they can posess no matter what. They run out of those as no more Quori.

Getting those mind seeded agents is trickier but first you can focus on killing every annoying Inspired you can find. This isn't too hard usually it just takes spot checks. They look human (so +2 to disguise as a human) but aren't.
Just don't fall for their good bluffing skills. ;) Still the spies will probably have good disguise checks. But fighting those darn Quori aint easy. A ranger with good wisdom, max ranks in spot and a Medani DM that pumps Inspired and Quori as their FE will be your best friend.

Dismissal works as does exorcism or similar but Quori in Inspired can resist all of that. Obviously if you have psionic characters there's a lot more options.
Cifer
03-10-07, 07:05 AM @Shady
Actually, there are at least some rules for Quori death, the most important one being: A Quori that is actually killed doesn't come back as itself - that's the reason the death penalty is quite viable for them, since you just have to kill a renegade Quori to have a good chance for getting a loyal one back.

So if you kill the damn kalaraq, you will sooner or later get another kalaraq back, but that one will take a while to become a 20th level psion again.
Shady314
03-10-07, 06:44 PM @Shady
Actually, there are at least some rules for Quori death,

Source? As far as I've seen it's merely KB's idea that outsiders reform. I haven't seen it in any official material but I could have missed it or perhaps a book I don't have. Or perhaps in Dungeon or Dragon? I don't read those. So seriously if you can cite a source I'd like to see what's written on it.

Anyways the fact remains binding is the best choice. Bind the kalaraq and it never comes back.
sag3
03-10-07, 07:58 PM For info on Quori fighting read EHB page 296 Quori entry.
One way to remove a quori spirit is dropping the targets Cha score. Remember these guys are still willing Quori slaves so it might not be all that useful in actually turning them from "the cause". Then the Quori spirit ends up ethereal. You need to Dimensional anchor the sucker so he cant plane hop home. With no willing host with a high enough Cha its down to duke it out or run away. It is still ethereal but you stand a fighting chance to actually kill or capture the spirit.
As you said you have a DM who plays with the rules a bit so make sure you clear it with him first. At least some stages of the plan you might think he will stop.

To stop the Quori entering the world all you need to do is go to Sarlona and blow up all the monoliths. Simple as that. Then you can start knocking of the quori and they cant come back. Until their servants built them more monoliths.
Cifer
03-12-07, 10:00 PM @Shady314
The source I have at hand is indeed the Dreaming Dark article of Mr What-I-Write-Is-Not-Canon-Despite-Hundreds-Of-Fans-Taking-It-As-The-Bible-Baker. If that is not sufficient, I cannot help you.
yrogerg
03-12-07, 10:52 PM @Shady
Actually, there are at least some rules for Quori death, the most important one being: A Quori that is actually killed doesn't come back as itself - that's the reason the death penalty is quite viable for them, since you just have to kill a renegade Quori to have a good chance for getting a loyal one back.

So if you kill the damn kalaraq, you will sooner or later get another kalaraq back, but that one will take a while to become a 20th level psion again.

Actually, if you lend credence to Hellcow's take on it, the answer here can still be yes and no, especially in the case of particularly powerful Quori. The reformed Quori may have the same role and same power, but have a subtly different *personality*. I look to the analogous situations in the Sandman series as examples of this sort:

At the end of the series, Dream-as-Morpheus is killed by the Furies, and is reborn in Daniel. It's immediately clear that the child is not the same as Morpheus, but he *is* Dream, one of the Endless, and still wields all the same power and has the same role, and is sibling to the other Endless. He's just no longer Morpheus, and what this actually means seems profound, but at the same time, a vastly more subtle shift than when a title changes hands in our world.

Likewise, a sufficiently powerful reborn Outsider may not actually be a true "blank slate", and may instead retain fundamentals of their essence through rebirth. A sufficiently powerful or important renegade Quori may, in fact, simply return as another powerful renegade Quori.
Shady314
03-13-07, 06:07 PM @Shady314
The source I have at hand is indeed the Dreaming Dark article of Mr What-I-Write-Is-Not-Canon-Despite-Hundreds-Of-Fans-Taking-It-As-The-Bible-Baker. If that is not sufficient, I cannot help you.
Ah so I was correct. There are as of yet no "rules" on outsider death and reformation. It's still very much up to the DM. Not that I don't use KB's idea and love it (I do) but that article doesn't cover every question one might have and it is not canon so we can't cite it as raw... yet. Hopefully they'll do a Planes of Eberron book or something and we can get this in-depth.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
JoshuaWilhoyte 02-28-07, 03:22 PM	A friend of mine was looking for some help, and since I'm on here occasionally and he's not, I thought I'd get some professional help. Their campaign involves the Quori starting wars in Khorvaire, sending in possessed spies and assassins, etc. And his group is battling them. Now, the DM takes rules liberties, so there's no telling how anything actually work. However, his character has more Knowledge Planar than he or I do, so we're looking to see what can be done. Not on a war front, but in a normal game. How can you tell if someone has been possessed? How can you unpossess someone? If you get the Quori out, can you then do something to it? If you kill a Quori once you get it out of the host, is it dead? Or do they come back? thanks for all the help,
Melvin the Mediocre 02-28-07, 03:41 PM	Barring answers from some one who can actually look up mechanics, here are my responses from memory. How can you tell if someone has been possessed? From movies I've seen, their heads spin around and they vomit alot. In game I suspect watching for odd behavior would be the first clue. Then spells like detect thought and true seeing might work better. How can you unpossess someone? For starters, look at the Exorcist of the Silver Flame prestige class. As I recall, there is also an exorcist prestige class in the complete divine. If you get the Quori out, can you then do something to it? Getting the Quori out should just push it back to it's plane. To actually fight it, you would need to follow it home. The book and class name escape me at the moment, but one of the Kalashtar oriented prestige classes actually gives you some ability to battle the quori directly. I think it may be a matter of expelling the thing and then plane travelling along behind it. Hopefully some one with a better memory or access to their books can give you a pointer as to where to look. If you kill a Quori once you get it out of the host, is it dead? Or do they come back? They come back, and not for milk and cookies :eek: Actually I can't back that up. I believe killing the thing on it's home plane does it in for good.
SSj3goblin 02-28-07, 03:48 PM	Actually I can't back that up. I believe killing hte thing on it's home plane does it in for good. Killing a Quori will only cause it to be remade into a new one of the exact same race hours/days/weeks later. So their numbers are static but you could not just kill them all to get rid of the "Quori threat".
Ehtiar 03-06-07, 08:28 PM	Of course, killing a Quori basically results in it being reincarnated... The key thing there.. is that its a totally new Quori.. so it doesn't know anything that the Quori you killed did.... So, you disrupt his plans, he won't know who did it, he won't even know what plans there were that were disrupted... (at least, until/unless other Quori tell him about it.. which they might not). So if you could force a chunk of the Quori in a region to be "reincarnated" you'd start messing up some of those long range plots and designs ...since it's possible for them to lose track of whats going on.... Sure, it would be murder to try it on a large number of Quori...but in the small term..take every benefit you can :cool:
Cifer 03-09-07, 04:01 PM	Plus, the new one wouldn't have the experience of the old one, meaning that it gets simpler to kill him again. However, it's unknown how many Quori there actually are, so trying this tactic may require a veritable genocide. In case the Quori already can go to Eberron physically, my favorite idea has always been to send something back to them - specifically, to open a manifest zone of Dal'Quor inside the Mournlands.
Shady314 03-09-07, 05:03 PM	Sadly there are no rules for exactly how the reincarnation of outsiders works so it's going to be up to your DM. Especially if he messes with the rules like you say. Some say they reform quickly, some slowly or that the more powerful the outsider the slower it reforms. Once reformed does it regain its full strength immediately? at an accelerated pace? same as every other? Does it get all it's memories back? All but they are jumbled? Etc. So part of fighting them will be figuring out how effective killing the Quori itself is which only your DM can tell you. No matter what it's a total waste of time. On Eberron you want to bind powerful outsiders. Not kill them. Once bound they are trapped and never reform and never threaten you again. Provided they aren't released. Luckily there's a tried and true method that is always effective and that is killing their hosts. The current Quori (assuming your DM hasn't changed it) can only posses willing humans with high enough charisma scores (believe it must equal the posessing entities charisma) or Inspired. Then there are the Inspired bred specifically for individual Quori they can posess no matter what. They run out of those as no more Quori. Getting those mind seeded agents is trickier but first you can focus on killing every annoying Inspired you can find. This isn't too hard usually it just takes spot checks. They look human (so +2 to disguise as a human) but aren't. Just don't fall for their good bluffing skills. ;) Still the spies will probably have good disguise checks. But fighting those darn Quori aint easy. A ranger with good wisdom, max ranks in spot and a Medani DM that pumps Inspired and Quori as their FE will be your best friend. Dismissal works as does exorcism or similar but Quori in Inspired can resist all of that. Obviously if you have psionic characters there's a lot more options.
Cifer 03-10-07, 07:05 AM	@Shady Actually, there are at least some rules for Quori death, the most important one being: A Quori that is actually killed doesn't come back as itself - that's the reason the death penalty is quite viable for them, since you just have to kill a renegade Quori to have a good chance for getting a loyal one back. So if you kill the damn kalaraq, you will sooner or later get another kalaraq back, but that one will take a while to become a 20th level psion again.
Shady314 03-10-07, 06:44 PM	@Shady Actually, there are at least some rules for Quori death, Source? As far as I've seen it's merely KB's idea that outsiders reform. I haven't seen it in any official material but I could have missed it or perhaps a book I don't have. Or perhaps in Dungeon or Dragon? I don't read those. So seriously if you can cite a source I'd like to see what's written on it. Anyways the fact remains binding is the best choice. Bind the kalaraq and it never comes back.
sag3 03-10-07, 07:58 PM	For info on Quori fighting read EHB page 296 Quori entry. One way to remove a quori spirit is dropping the targets Cha score. Remember these guys are still willing Quori slaves so it might not be all that useful in actually turning them from "the cause". Then the Quori spirit ends up ethereal. You need to Dimensional anchor the sucker so he cant plane hop home. With no willing host with a high enough Cha its down to duke it out or run away. It is still ethereal but you stand a fighting chance to actually kill or capture the spirit. As you said you have a DM who plays with the rules a bit so make sure you clear it with him first. At least some stages of the plan you might think he will stop. To stop the Quori entering the world all you need to do is go to Sarlona and blow up all the monoliths. Simple as that. Then you can start knocking of the quori and they cant come back. Until their servants built them more monoliths.
Cifer 03-12-07, 10:00 PM	@Shady314 The source I have at hand is indeed the Dreaming Dark article of Mr What-I-Write-Is-Not-Canon-Despite-Hundreds-Of-Fans-Taking-It-As-The-Bible-Baker. If that is not sufficient, I cannot help you.
yrogerg 03-12-07, 10:52 PM	@Shady Actually, there are at least some rules for Quori death, the most important one being: A Quori that is actually killed doesn't come back as itself - that's the reason the death penalty is quite viable for them, since you just have to kill a renegade Quori to have a good chance for getting a loyal one back. So if you kill the damn kalaraq, you will sooner or later get another kalaraq back, but that one will take a while to become a 20th level psion again. Actually, if you lend credence to Hellcow's take on it, the answer here can still be yes and no, especially in the case of particularly powerful Quori. The reformed Quori may have the same role and same power, but have a subtly different personality. I look to the analogous situations in the Sandman series as examples of this sort: At the end of the series, Dream-as-Morpheus is killed by the Furies, and is reborn in Daniel. It's immediately clear that the child is not the same as Morpheus, but he is Dream, one of the Endless, and still wields all the same power and has the same role, and is sibling to the other Endless. He's just no longer Morpheus, and what this actually means seems profound, but at the same time, a vastly more subtle shift than when a title changes hands in our world. Likewise, a sufficiently powerful reborn Outsider may not actually be a true "blank slate", and may instead retain fundamentals of their essence through rebirth. A sufficiently powerful or important renegade Quori may, in fact, simply return as another powerful renegade Quori.
Shady314 03-13-07, 06:07 PM	@Shady314 The source I have at hand is indeed the Dreaming Dark article of Mr What-I-Write-Is-Not-Canon-Despite-Hundreds-Of-Fans-Taking-It-As-The-Bible-Baker. If that is not sufficient, I cannot help you. Ah so I was correct. There are as of yet no "rules" on outsider death and reformation. It's still very much up to the DM. Not that I don't use KB's idea and love it (I do) but that article doesn't cover every question one might have and it is not canon so we can't cite it as raw... yet. Hopefully they'll do a Planes of Eberron book or something and we can get this in-depth.