Changeling shapechange [Archive] - Wizards Community

Changeling shapechange [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
darkiz
02-22-07, 06:31 AM Just started playing eberron and am a bit confused as to the differences between changeling and doppelgangers shapechanging abilities, except that doppelgangers can assume the form of a small creature as well as medium are there any other differences? there ECS says there are but i cant find anything specific
Artector
02-22-07, 07:03 AM If you're trying to figure out the Shapechange Ability of Changelings, forget the Doppleganger. The Changeling description is pretty obvious, don't confuse it with the Doppleganger, they are seperate things.
Kid SixXx
02-22-07, 07:07 AM Just started playing eberron and am a bit confused as to the differences between changeling and doppelgangers shapechanging abilities, except that doppelgangers can assume the form of a small creature as well as medium are there any other differences? there ECS says there are but i cant find anything specific

Changeling's Minor Shape Change ability mirrors the Disguise Self spell (as per the Changeling racial text in the ECS) which only allows a one foot difference in height. A 5 foot tall Changeling could increase his height to six feet or shrink down to four feet.

Most likely you wouldn't be able to alter yourself so much so that you could achieve the height (much less the physical build) of a Small creature. There is a lot of height and mass difference between a Changeling and a Halfling or a Gnome.

A Changeling's ability isn't supposed to be as strong as a Doppleganger's. After all, Changelings are of a lineage further downstream than Dopplegangers. Minor Shape Change isn't much more than a glorified Disguise check.

Mileage will vary from DM to DM.

Personally I'd houserule that you could mimic a Small creature since I really like most of the fluff text in RoE and think that a disguised Changeling should be mistaken for any core race at first glance, (except maybe for Warforged).
Cifer
02-22-07, 08:36 AM The shapechanging isn't that different (apart from the Medium vs. Small business). The bigger difference is the doppleganger's ability to read thoughts, which of course massively helps with impersonating someone.
darkiz
02-22-07, 11:01 AM yeah i know doppelganger is way better and therefor has a starting ecl of 8 just wondering what the difference in their shapechanging was, ability bonus and detect thoughts aside

also could a changeling grow limbs? i know it says in the "disguise self" description that you cant change body type but they can change their sex and genetalia, if you can grow breasts or sex organs could you grow an extra arm? fur? horns(small tiefling-like horns)?

thanks for the answers so far, i appreciate it
Kid SixXx
02-22-07, 11:17 AM also could a changeling grow limbs? i know it says in the "disguise self" description that you cant change body type but they can change their sex and genetalia, if you can grow breasts or a ***** could you grow an extra arm? fur? horns(small tiefling-like horns)?

Again, that depends on whom you ask.

There are feats in RoE that you can take to enhance Minor Shape Change, and RoE does describe MSC as a physical manifestation that even allows you to change gender much like a true Doppleganger can (some people hate that line of logic).

However, most likely a Changeling would be limited to humanoid forms with the normal number of appendages.

I suppose a Changeling could mimic the vestigial horns of some Tieflings since they aren't used for combat, but I don't think that a Changeling could form something that could be used as a natural weapon such as an extra arm, a really hard horn, or the like unless it took some sort of feat or perhaps took the Warshaper PrC.
Cifer
02-22-07, 04:58 PM It's general consensus that whatever the changeling shapes into can have no effect beyond aiding his ability to disguise as something (and possibly getting pregnant).
Rerecros
02-23-07, 07:57 PM RoE has the a five level prestige class that gives changelings the powers of true dopplegangers, but they are otherwise limited to change their form within the use of the disguise self spell, though it only applies to their bodies, and not their possessions. Though in RoE there are clothes you can buy that change shape along with the changeling's minor shape-change ability.

Changelings have a true form with a fixed gender, though they can assume the complete appearance of a different gender. They cannot change their internal chemestry by anyway other than a belt of gender opposition.
Witchcraft
02-24-07, 01:08 AM appearance[/I] of a different gender. They cannot change their internal chemestry by anyway other than a belt of gender opposition.

False. RoE says that a male changeling can become a women and have a baby. They just cant change their shape until the birth.
RogueElement
02-24-07, 09:54 PM And Races of Eberron also implied that Warforged don't have a sense of smell. I wouldn't pay too much attention to that book.
Eiries
02-24-07, 11:02 PM And that is exactly why Warforged don't have a sense of smell. Sure, it wasn't very nice to fail to mention it in the past, but because of that statement, it is indisputable that warforged don't have a sense of smell.

Of course, a DM can always change such unimportant rules. And perhaps that's what you're getting at.

Yes indeed, changelings can change thier physiology as well as thier appearance. And it states in both the RoE and in the ECS that a changeling's change shape ability, unlike that of a disguise self spell, is a literal physical manipulation of the flesh and not an imagery effect. This brings up questions, such as whether a changeling can close up wounds. By all standards, I would say yes. But the fact stands that it was only meant to be used as a disguising tool, and a wounding weapon makes a changeling bleed, and it still needs to make a Heal check to stop it.

What I would like to know for a fact is how the change shape ability for the Cabinet Trickster works. it says that a changeling can now shape itself into a Small-sized creature, but nothing about a Large. However, it references the MM for "further information regarding the change shape ability." In the MM, it says that a creature with such an ability can morph itself into an creature of the same type between the next smallest and largest; in other words, a Medium-sized changeling would be able to turn into a gnome or a large-sized humanoid, like, say.... I dunno, a troll (I know, technically it's a giant, but it's close enough.)

Sorry if these facts are a teeny bit off, I do not have the books in front of me and I am simply recalling everything from memory. :P
RogueElement
02-24-07, 11:19 PM Keith had to write a whole Dragonshard article just to bring back the Warforged sense of smell because of that crazy Races of Eberron book. Do realize how much typing it takes to bring back an entire race's sense of smell?

That reminds me, back to the original point of the thread: Races of Eberron has the Cabinet Trickster PrC which would be perfect for your character. At 5th level your Change Shape ability allows you to assume any Small or Medium humanoid including Extraordinary Abilities such as multiple arms. Presumably that would include the Extraordinary Ability of making babies if you're really into that sort of thing and your DM had ruled that Changelings can not change their reproductive abilities even though the ambitious but terribly misguided Races of Eberron says they can.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
darkiz 02-22-07, 06:31 AM	Just started playing eberron and am a bit confused as to the differences between changeling and doppelgangers shapechanging abilities, except that doppelgangers can assume the form of a small creature as well as medium are there any other differences? there ECS says there are but i cant find anything specific
Artector 02-22-07, 07:03 AM	If you're trying to figure out the Shapechange Ability of Changelings, forget the Doppleganger. The Changeling description is pretty obvious, don't confuse it with the Doppleganger, they are seperate things.
Kid SixXx 02-22-07, 07:07 AM	Just started playing eberron and am a bit confused as to the differences between changeling and doppelgangers shapechanging abilities, except that doppelgangers can assume the form of a small creature as well as medium are there any other differences? there ECS says there are but i cant find anything specific Changeling's Minor Shape Change ability mirrors the Disguise Self spell (as per the Changeling racial text in the ECS) which only allows a one foot difference in height. A 5 foot tall Changeling could increase his height to six feet or shrink down to four feet. Most likely you wouldn't be able to alter yourself so much so that you could achieve the height (much less the physical build) of a Small creature. There is a lot of height and mass difference between a Changeling and a Halfling or a Gnome. A Changeling's ability isn't supposed to be as strong as a Doppleganger's. After all, Changelings are of a lineage further downstream than Dopplegangers. Minor Shape Change isn't much more than a glorified Disguise check. Mileage will vary from DM to DM. Personally I'd houserule that you could mimic a Small creature since I really like most of the fluff text in RoE and think that a disguised Changeling should be mistaken for any core race at first glance, (except maybe for Warforged).
Cifer 02-22-07, 08:36 AM	The shapechanging isn't that different (apart from the Medium vs. Small business). The bigger difference is the doppleganger's ability to read thoughts, which of course massively helps with impersonating someone.
darkiz 02-22-07, 11:01 AM	yeah i know doppelganger is way better and therefor has a starting ecl of 8 just wondering what the difference in their shapechanging was, ability bonus and detect thoughts aside also could a changeling grow limbs? i know it says in the "disguise self" description that you cant change body type but they can change their sex and genetalia, if you can grow breasts or sex organs could you grow an extra arm? fur? horns(small tiefling-like horns)? thanks for the answers so far, i appreciate it
Kid SixXx 02-22-07, 11:17 AM	also could a changeling grow limbs? i know it says in the "disguise self" description that you cant change body type but they can change their sex and genetalia, if you can grow breasts or a ***** could you grow an extra arm? fur? horns(small tiefling-like horns)? Again, that depends on whom you ask. There are feats in RoE that you can take to enhance Minor Shape Change, and RoE does describe MSC as a physical manifestation that even allows you to change gender much like a true Doppleganger can (some people hate that line of logic). However, most likely a Changeling would be limited to humanoid forms with the normal number of appendages. I suppose a Changeling could mimic the vestigial horns of some Tieflings since they aren't used for combat, but I don't think that a Changeling could form something that could be used as a natural weapon such as an extra arm, a really hard horn, or the like unless it took some sort of feat or perhaps took the Warshaper PrC.
Cifer 02-22-07, 04:58 PM	It's general consensus that whatever the changeling shapes into can have no effect beyond aiding his ability to disguise as something (and possibly getting pregnant).
Rerecros 02-23-07, 07:57 PM	RoE has the a five level prestige class that gives changelings the powers of true dopplegangers, but they are otherwise limited to change their form within the use of the disguise self spell, though it only applies to their bodies, and not their possessions. Though in RoE there are clothes you can buy that change shape along with the changeling's minor shape-change ability. Changelings have a true form with a fixed gender, though they can assume the complete appearance of a different gender. They cannot change their internal chemestry by anyway other than a belt of gender opposition.
Witchcraft 02-24-07, 01:08 AM	appearance[/I] of a different gender. They cannot change their internal chemestry by anyway other than a belt of gender opposition. False. RoE says that a male changeling can become a women and have a baby. They just cant change their shape until the birth.
RogueElement 02-24-07, 09:54 PM	And Races of Eberron also implied that Warforged don't have a sense of smell. I wouldn't pay too much attention to that book.
Eiries 02-24-07, 11:02 PM	And that is exactly why Warforged don't have a sense of smell. Sure, it wasn't very nice to fail to mention it in the past, but because of that statement, it is indisputable that warforged don't have a sense of smell. Of course, a DM can always change such unimportant rules. And perhaps that's what you're getting at. Yes indeed, changelings can change thier physiology as well as thier appearance. And it states in both the RoE and in the ECS that a changeling's change shape ability, unlike that of a disguise self spell, is a literal physical manipulation of the flesh and not an imagery effect. This brings up questions, such as whether a changeling can close up wounds. By all standards, I would say yes. But the fact stands that it was only meant to be used as a disguising tool, and a wounding weapon makes a changeling bleed, and it still needs to make a Heal check to stop it. What I would like to know for a fact is how the change shape ability for the Cabinet Trickster works. it says that a changeling can now shape itself into a Small-sized creature, but nothing about a Large. However, it references the MM for "further information regarding the change shape ability." In the MM, it says that a creature with such an ability can morph itself into an creature of the same type between the next smallest and largest; in other words, a Medium-sized changeling would be able to turn into a gnome or a large-sized humanoid, like, say.... I dunno, a troll (I know, technically it's a giant, but it's close enough.) Sorry if these facts are a teeny bit off, I do not have the books in front of me and I am simply recalling everything from memory. :P
RogueElement 02-24-07, 11:19 PM	Keith had to write a whole Dragonshard article just to bring back the Warforged sense of smell because of that crazy Races of Eberron book. Do realize how much typing it takes to bring back an entire race's sense of smell? That reminds me, back to the original point of the thread: Races of Eberron has the Cabinet Trickster PrC which would be perfect for your character. At 5th level your Change Shape ability allows you to assume any Small or Medium humanoid including Extraordinary Abilities such as multiple arms. Presumably that would include the Extraordinary Ability of making babies if you're really into that sort of thing and your DM had ruled that Changelings can not change their reproductive abilities even though the ambitious but terribly misguided Races of Eberron says they can.