Changelings [Archive] - Wizards Community

Changelings [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
M1kh43l_P4r4d1s0
05-16-07, 09:03 PM Okay Changelings have mior shape change abilities resembling the disguise self spell. However, the ability states that only their appearance changes, but their possesions do not change. Now this is supposedly very clear, but please let me expalin with out getting flamed. What I really want to know is can a changeling change their clothes with their ability or does the changelings have to change their clothes manually with each new form? I'm fine if you can't change the weapons or armour, but the race seems to get a cruddy deal without the abilities? I'm just saying, other wise it really limits the characters; especiallyif the caracter has to spend most of their gold on a huge wardrobe, and a place to place it all. Thoughts?
Edymnion
05-16-07, 09:36 PM No, the changelings can only change themselves. Not their armor, not their weapons, not their clothes.

But really, how hard is it for a PC to get a Hat of Disguise or some Glamored armor? Come to think of it, I remember there even being one of the official books that basically had normal clothes with the Glamored property on them.
M1kh43l_P4r4d1s0
05-16-07, 09:51 PM Well, I'm going to be first lvl, and While I have no problem actually role playing for the items that give me these items, I am sort of disappointed because I had very good ideas for this concept. I also don't want to start out stealing reletivly good items. but where can I find glamered clothes and what is the price?
Rerecros
05-16-07, 11:32 PM For early levels, i suggest buying several outfits, and wear them in layers, and change the order when u need to. It also helps to carry one of every (un)holy symbol, like the bad guy from the mummy. :D
M1kh43l_P4r4d1s0
05-16-07, 11:39 PM I'm going to do the holy smybol thing, but I whould have preferred the actually disguise self. But eh. I already planned on the whole multiple clerics. I have taken knowledge (religion, local, arcana*) Arcana is multiclass. I have also taken spellcraft* and have taken use magic device. I like the idea. I'll talk to my DM about houseruling, but it doesn't matter that much with the help you people are supplying. Thanks, and keep RP ideas coming. This is my first time playing in Eberron, and hopefully won't be my last.
MageWeasel
05-16-07, 11:45 PM Well hey, there's nothing that says you can't use both the spell and the ability... or is there?

If so, perhaps you could use the ability to change your form, and the spell to alter your clothing....(?)
M1kh43l_P4r4d1s0
05-17-07, 12:02 AM Well, seeing as how I'm a 1st lvl rouge the spell is alien to me, with the exception of scrolls, which are pretty costly for me, but i will look in to it. What about prestidigatation (sp is massivly messed up)? Can it change clothes? I hope so. Not with my books right now.
Rerecros
05-17-07, 02:44 AM prestidigitation can't make or change clothes (it can clean or dirty them however).

Now as for appearance, the dashing noble can appear tempting, but never underestimate the power of an elderly begger.

Orc: roar! i'm on a rampage :yuck:
granny: oh please don't kill me, who will feed my cats? :bigeyes:
Orc: (takes pity, turns back) :allalone:
granny: SNEAK ATTACK!!! :elf:
Orc: aaaaaaaahhhhhhhh :ghosted:
:evillaugh
Cifer
05-17-07, 06:29 AM The changeling of our group is using clothes that can be turned inside out or worn in different ways - that and a big bag.
Edymnion
05-17-07, 08:22 AM prestidigitation can't make or change clothes (it can clean or dirty them however).
It can change the color though. Never underestimate the power to turn the dark lord's pants bright neon pink while he's trying to rally his demonic hordes.

Anyway, just don't have him wear anything individualistic, and invest in some reversible clothes. Its not really a big deal.
M1kh43l_P4r4d1s0
05-17-07, 11:20 PM How much would clothes like this cost?
Cifer
05-18-07, 05:23 AM I'd guess at about one and a half time the standard cost.
Arryn
05-18-07, 08:04 AM In Races of Eberron there is a Wonderous item called Vestment of Many Styles which kind of works like a minor Hat of Disguise. It can change fabric and design to suit the wearer's desires. (No mention of color being changed but it does give a +2 Circumstance bonus to Disguise when a change of outfit would help the disguise.) Keep in mind that this does not change Armor, but at only 500 gps it's an item than even a first or second level character can get their hands on pretty quickly.
Edymnion
05-18-07, 08:31 AM How much would clothes like this cost?If memory serves, it was in Song & Silence (but they must have reprinted it in Complete Adventurer/Scoundral by now) and it was somewhere around 100-150gp, mainly because one side was a noble's outfit while the other was a begger's outfit. Good rule of thumb, just "buy" two sets of clothes, increase the cost by 50%, and say its one set of reversable clothes that you can switch around in a round or two.In Races of Eberron there is a Wonderous item called Vestment of Many Styles which kind of works like a minor Hat of Disguise. It can change fabric and design to suit the wearer's desires. (No mention of color being changed but it does give a +2 Circumstance bonus to Disguise when a change of outfit would help the disguise.) Keep in mind that this does not change Armor, but at only 500 gps it's an item than even a first or second level character can get their hands on pretty quickly.Yeah, that would be the glamored clothes I was talking about. Thanks for the actual referance though, I couldn't remember where it was. :)
tallric_kruush
05-19-07, 12:38 PM Or Edymnion could have been remembering Shiftweave. I believe it made it's first appearance in S:CoT, though it also turned up in MIC. The fluff said it allowed nobles to have numerous gowns/etc... all in one. The utility for a changeling is obvious.
M1kh43l_P4r4d1s0
05-19-07, 06:43 PM First off, what do the Acronyms mean? Second, how much does it cost?
Nived
05-19-07, 10:13 PM A couple of tips that I've seen used in the past, not mechanically statted out anywhere, but I believe that most DMs would give you that +2 situational bonus for some of these.

Gender Neutral clothing. (avoiding RoE discussion) Changlings can make themselves look like the opposite sex, a drastic change like that might fool low level examination. However you can't do that if you're in a dress or wearing a manly net shirt. Why you'd be wearing a manly net shirt I don't know.

Non descript clothing. Though Changlings do love the finer things in life, a caught changling can't enjoy them. Avoid flashy easily remembered clothing. Something so mundane so typical that people have a hard time remember what you were wearing. Wear flashy stuff when you have the coin to magically disguise it.

Mid sized clothing. An outfit could look completely differnt on a 5'4" chubby guy as it does a 6'2" chisled physique. Describe out the 'fit' of the clothing changes when you change your appearance.
Ardent
05-20-07, 12:49 AM No, the changelings can only change themselves. Not their armor, not their weapons, not their clothes.

But really, how hard is it for a PC to get a Hat of Disguise or some Glamored armor? Come to think of it, I remember there even being one of the official books that basically had normal clothes with the Glamored property on them.
Or expend a bonus feat to get a feat that allows their minor shapechange to include non-functional changes to their wardrobe?

But glamered equipment isn't a bad stopgap; a hat of disguise would be a serious investment just for some clothes, though.
Cifer
05-20-07, 03:44 PM a hat of disguise would be a serious investment just for some clothes, though.
RAW, it's a less serious investment since it grants you another +10 bonus on your disguise check. While the changeling ability gives you a +10 circumstance bonus, the +10 bonus of the Disguise Self is unnamed, meaning they do stack.
While somewhat strange, it's not exactly overpowered since it's pretty easy to rack up bonuses on your spot check against the disguised changeling.
tallric_kruush
05-21-07, 08:55 AM First off, what do the Acronyms mean? Second, how much does it cost?

I'm not sure I'm comfortable giving the price of the item. There's not a whole lot to the item, and it could easily be "reverse engineered" with a slip of the tongue here on the boards. That is a big no, no.

S:CoT is my abbreviation for Sharn: City of Towers. We're so used to using abbreviations around here, we generally don't spell titles out unless asked.
FearTheBat
05-31-07, 03:06 PM The glamered armor ability only costs a +1 bonus, which increases the cost of the armor by 1000gp, which is very reasonable for a character after a few levels. That's what my changeling uses.
tallric_kruush
05-31-07, 04:18 PM The glamered armor ability only costs a +1 bonus, which increases the cost of the armor by 1000gp, which is very reasonable for a character after a few levels. That's what my changeling uses.

Unless there's errata that I haven't been using, Glamered isn't an enhancement of that sort. It's an armor special ability that costs a flat 2700gp. (DMG 219) That's a little more cost up front, but saves a lot of gold in the long run by not mucking-up the cost of your armor enhancement bonus.
Edymnion
05-31-07, 07:52 PM Unless there's errata that I haven't been using, Glamered isn't an enhancement of that sort. It's an armor special ability that costs a flat 2700gp. (DMG 219) That's a little more cost up front, but saves a lot of gold in the long run by not mucking-up the cost of your armor enhancement bonus.He probably comes from 3.0, like me, where armor enchantments were still plus values.

3.5, you're hard pressed to find an armor enchantment thats still using plus values.
Exedeus
06-03-07, 04:42 AM Hello

If you realy would like to have the disguise option at hand, then make a changeling Beguiler :D Then it is all good

1st: Sp(enchantment)
3rd: Sp(Illusion)
6th: Highten Spell
9th: Expertise
12th: Improved Feint
15th: Racial Emulation

That is just my suggestion

Ciao :)
bobwatts410
06-03-07, 10:23 PM As a Changling remember that you not only change appearance but you can go up or down 100lbs and 1 foot. If your warrior type runs around the corner and pulls out his long white shirt, losses 100lbs and a foot in height changes to a waif like girl in a night shirt... well it may buy you enough time to move on. Keep in mind if you want to hide in the dark... skin tone is always an option, match the surroundings or go black. Glamoured armor (and all items, backpack etc.) are an excellent choice.
Go to the university and do some research. If you get cornered by some thugs, they might rethink the assault if you show them a Vampire's fangs!
Intimidate is a real handy skill to go along with being a changling.
Favored class is rogue, but they make a good combo rogue/wizard (assassin)
that gives you some options in great depth.
If you are in a town find places that average sized folk can't fit and use them for blot holes (sewers holes in derelict buildings...)
Assume quirk and Quick change are also very handy

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
M1kh43l_P4r4d1s0 05-16-07, 09:03 PM	Okay Changelings have mior shape change abilities resembling the disguise self spell. However, the ability states that only their appearance changes, but their possesions do not change. Now this is supposedly very clear, but please let me expalin with out getting flamed. What I really want to know is can a changeling change their clothes with their ability or does the changelings have to change their clothes manually with each new form? I'm fine if you can't change the weapons or armour, but the race seems to get a cruddy deal without the abilities? I'm just saying, other wise it really limits the characters; especiallyif the caracter has to spend most of their gold on a huge wardrobe, and a place to place it all. Thoughts?
Edymnion 05-16-07, 09:36 PM	No, the changelings can only change themselves. Not their armor, not their weapons, not their clothes. But really, how hard is it for a PC to get a Hat of Disguise or some Glamored armor? Come to think of it, I remember there even being one of the official books that basically had normal clothes with the Glamored property on them.
M1kh43l_P4r4d1s0 05-16-07, 09:51 PM	Well, I'm going to be first lvl, and While I have no problem actually role playing for the items that give me these items, I am sort of disappointed because I had very good ideas for this concept. I also don't want to start out stealing reletivly good items. but where can I find glamered clothes and what is the price?
Rerecros 05-16-07, 11:32 PM	For early levels, i suggest buying several outfits, and wear them in layers, and change the order when u need to. It also helps to carry one of every (un)holy symbol, like the bad guy from the mummy. :D
M1kh43l_P4r4d1s0 05-16-07, 11:39 PM	I'm going to do the holy smybol thing, but I whould have preferred the actually disguise self. But eh. I already planned on the whole multiple clerics. I have taken knowledge (religion, local, arcana) Arcana is multiclass. I have also taken spellcraft and have taken use magic device. I like the idea. I'll talk to my DM about houseruling, but it doesn't matter that much with the help you people are supplying. Thanks, and keep RP ideas coming. This is my first time playing in Eberron, and hopefully won't be my last.
MageWeasel 05-16-07, 11:45 PM	Well hey, there's nothing that says you can't use both the spell and the ability... or is there? If so, perhaps you could use the ability to change your form, and the spell to alter your clothing....(?)
M1kh43l_P4r4d1s0 05-17-07, 12:02 AM	Well, seeing as how I'm a 1st lvl rouge the spell is alien to me, with the exception of scrolls, which are pretty costly for me, but i will look in to it. What about prestidigatation (sp is massivly messed up)? Can it change clothes? I hope so. Not with my books right now.
Rerecros 05-17-07, 02:44 AM	prestidigitation can't make or change clothes (it can clean or dirty them however). Now as for appearance, the dashing noble can appear tempting, but never underestimate the power of an elderly begger. Orc: roar! i'm on a rampage :yuck: granny: oh please don't kill me, who will feed my cats? :bigeyes: Orc: (takes pity, turns back) :allalone: granny: SNEAK ATTACK!!! :elf: Orc: aaaaaaaahhhhhhhh :ghosted: :evillaugh
Cifer 05-17-07, 06:29 AM	The changeling of our group is using clothes that can be turned inside out or worn in different ways - that and a big bag.
Edymnion 05-17-07, 08:22 AM	prestidigitation can't make or change clothes (it can clean or dirty them however). It can change the color though. Never underestimate the power to turn the dark lord's pants bright neon pink while he's trying to rally his demonic hordes. Anyway, just don't have him wear anything individualistic, and invest in some reversible clothes. Its not really a big deal.
M1kh43l_P4r4d1s0 05-17-07, 11:20 PM	How much would clothes like this cost?
Cifer 05-18-07, 05:23 AM	I'd guess at about one and a half time the standard cost.
Arryn 05-18-07, 08:04 AM	In Races of Eberron there is a Wonderous item called Vestment of Many Styles which kind of works like a minor Hat of Disguise. It can change fabric and design to suit the wearer's desires. (No mention of color being changed but it does give a +2 Circumstance bonus to Disguise when a change of outfit would help the disguise.) Keep in mind that this does not change Armor, but at only 500 gps it's an item than even a first or second level character can get their hands on pretty quickly.
Edymnion 05-18-07, 08:31 AM	How much would clothes like this cost?If memory serves, it was in Song & Silence (but they must have reprinted it in Complete Adventurer/Scoundral by now) and it was somewhere around 100-150gp, mainly because one side was a noble's outfit while the other was a begger's outfit. Good rule of thumb, just "buy" two sets of clothes, increase the cost by 50%, and say its one set of reversable clothes that you can switch around in a round or two.In Races of Eberron there is a Wonderous item called Vestment of Many Styles which kind of works like a minor Hat of Disguise. It can change fabric and design to suit the wearer's desires. (No mention of color being changed but it does give a +2 Circumstance bonus to Disguise when a change of outfit would help the disguise.) Keep in mind that this does not change Armor, but at only 500 gps it's an item than even a first or second level character can get their hands on pretty quickly.Yeah, that would be the glamored clothes I was talking about. Thanks for the actual referance though, I couldn't remember where it was. :)
tallric_kruush 05-19-07, 12:38 PM	Or Edymnion could have been remembering Shiftweave. I believe it made it's first appearance in S:CoT, though it also turned up in MIC. The fluff said it allowed nobles to have numerous gowns/etc... all in one. The utility for a changeling is obvious.
M1kh43l_P4r4d1s0 05-19-07, 06:43 PM	First off, what do the Acronyms mean? Second, how much does it cost?
Nived 05-19-07, 10:13 PM	A couple of tips that I've seen used in the past, not mechanically statted out anywhere, but I believe that most DMs would give you that +2 situational bonus for some of these. Gender Neutral clothing. (avoiding RoE discussion) Changlings can make themselves look like the opposite sex, a drastic change like that might fool low level examination. However you can't do that if you're in a dress or wearing a manly net shirt. Why you'd be wearing a manly net shirt I don't know. Non descript clothing. Though Changlings do love the finer things in life, a caught changling can't enjoy them. Avoid flashy easily remembered clothing. Something so mundane so typical that people have a hard time remember what you were wearing. Wear flashy stuff when you have the coin to magically disguise it. Mid sized clothing. An outfit could look completely differnt on a 5'4" chubby guy as it does a 6'2" chisled physique. Describe out the 'fit' of the clothing changes when you change your appearance.
Ardent 05-20-07, 12:49 AM	No, the changelings can only change themselves. Not their armor, not their weapons, not their clothes. But really, how hard is it for a PC to get a Hat of Disguise or some Glamored armor? Come to think of it, I remember there even being one of the official books that basically had normal clothes with the Glamored property on them. Or expend a bonus feat to get a feat that allows their minor shapechange to include non-functional changes to their wardrobe? But glamered equipment isn't a bad stopgap; a hat of disguise would be a serious investment just for some clothes, though.
Cifer 05-20-07, 03:44 PM	a hat of disguise would be a serious investment just for some clothes, though. RAW, it's a less serious investment since it grants you another +10 bonus on your disguise check. While the changeling ability gives you a +10 circumstance bonus, the +10 bonus of the Disguise Self is unnamed, meaning they do stack. While somewhat strange, it's not exactly overpowered since it's pretty easy to rack up bonuses on your spot check against the disguised changeling.
tallric_kruush 05-21-07, 08:55 AM	First off, what do the Acronyms mean? Second, how much does it cost? I'm not sure I'm comfortable giving the price of the item. There's not a whole lot to the item, and it could easily be "reverse engineered" with a slip of the tongue here on the boards. That is a big no, no. S:CoT is my abbreviation for Sharn: City of Towers. We're so used to using abbreviations around here, we generally don't spell titles out unless asked.
FearTheBat 05-31-07, 03:06 PM	The glamered armor ability only costs a +1 bonus, which increases the cost of the armor by 1000gp, which is very reasonable for a character after a few levels. That's what my changeling uses.
tallric_kruush 05-31-07, 04:18 PM	The glamered armor ability only costs a +1 bonus, which increases the cost of the armor by 1000gp, which is very reasonable for a character after a few levels. That's what my changeling uses. Unless there's errata that I haven't been using, Glamered isn't an enhancement of that sort. It's an armor special ability that costs a flat 2700gp. (DMG 219) That's a little more cost up front, but saves a lot of gold in the long run by not mucking-up the cost of your armor enhancement bonus.
Edymnion 05-31-07, 07:52 PM	Unless there's errata that I haven't been using, Glamered isn't an enhancement of that sort. It's an armor special ability that costs a flat 2700gp. (DMG 219) That's a little more cost up front, but saves a lot of gold in the long run by not mucking-up the cost of your armor enhancement bonus.He probably comes from 3.0, like me, where armor enchantments were still plus values. 3.5, you're hard pressed to find an armor enchantment thats still using plus values.
Exedeus 06-03-07, 04:42 AM	Hello If you realy would like to have the disguise option at hand, then make a changeling Beguiler :D Then it is all good 1st: Sp(enchantment) 3rd: Sp(Illusion) 6th: Highten Spell 9th: Expertise 12th: Improved Feint 15th: Racial Emulation That is just my suggestion Ciao :)
bobwatts410 06-03-07, 10:23 PM	As a Changling remember that you not only change appearance but you can go up or down 100lbs and 1 foot. If your warrior type runs around the corner and pulls out his long white shirt, losses 100lbs and a foot in height changes to a waif like girl in a night shirt... well it may buy you enough time to move on. Keep in mind if you want to hide in the dark... skin tone is always an option, match the surroundings or go black. Glamoured armor (and all items, backpack etc.) are an excellent choice. Go to the university and do some research. If you get cornered by some thugs, they might rethink the assault if you show them a Vampire's fangs! Intimidate is a real handy skill to go along with being a changling. Favored class is rogue, but they make a good combo rogue/wizard (assassin) that gives you some options in great depth. If you are in a town find places that average sized folk can't fit and use them for blot holes (sewers holes in derelict buildings...) Assume quirk and Quick change are also very handy