comments on allowing intelligent undead to use their dragonmark [Archive] - Wizards Community

comments on allowing intelligent undead to use their dragonmark [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
wolffman007
05-14-07, 01:09 PM i know per RAW this isnt allowed, im wanting thoughts/opinions/feedback on the idea, to see if its viable/possible & such

do you think it would be ok to allow intelligent undead to retain, use & maybe even expand upon their dragonmarks?

im wondering if there would be a difference between the positive & negative undead?

of course the DM couldnt be passed on once you became undead

i know its already been established with Vol this isnt possible

thanxs all
DragoonDarkfire
05-14-07, 01:31 PM Hmmm well...

I am having this problem with a Dragonmarked heir enemy to my PC's becoming a Vampire and I don't know what to do with his five lost class levels...
DarkWarriorKarg
05-14-07, 01:38 PM Hmmm well...

I am having this problem with a Dragonmarked heir enemy to my PC's becoming a Vampire and I don't know what to do with his five lost class levels...

Make him an evolved undead. (Libris Mortis) and/or freebies in an undead PrC.

Evolved Master Vampire. Why? Effects of the Prophecy, of course.
bad_phil
05-14-07, 02:38 PM Look at Lady Vol, one of her ultimate goal is to revive her lost mark. She's a lich, so her mark is "dead". This is one of her goal including revenge over her ennemies. You might find a way, like the evolved undead pointed above. But I wouln't allow it. That reminds me of the eternal tread wether non-dragonmarked race could have a dragonmark. I say yes on very specific condition or if it's in a quest matter, but no in general. You better have a good reason.

Nice tatoo by the way.
Logos7
05-14-07, 02:52 PM You still dont know if a dead dm can activate DM Items which is where i think the money is anyway The DM Items coming after Vol was whipped i thought. Sure it's wasted feats but being fun Undead will help make up for it (Perhaps even make it good for reducing the LA by 1 or something like that.

Logos
Psionycx
05-15-07, 08:59 PM Obviously DM's can do whatever they like.

But I think that the theme that dragonmarks are specific to certain types of individuals is a major element of their theme. Especially since Dragonmarked came out and special magic is now associated with them.

Vol, a powerful arcane spellcaster, obviously wants the Makr of Death revived to support magics that she cannot cast herself now that she's undead and her mark is inert.

It makes a certain sense that undeath doesn't automatically allow you keep everything you had in life, or else everybody with even the vaguest means would be in a hurry to become undead. The Twelve are based in Karrnath for example, yet there isn't an abundance of undead members of dragonmarked houses. Perhaps because the Twelve know that the marks stop working when you become undead?
Cifer
05-16-07, 07:42 AM I'd strongly advise you not to let undead use marks. A major point of the setting (Lady d'Vol, the Blood of Vol and the Emerald Claw) revolt around this problem and I doubt that any neonate vampire can achieve what Vol is trying since several thousand years.

For the given NPC, just take out the DM heir levels, swap them for the CR upgrade of the vampire template and put something else on top.
Amaril
08-13-07, 09:04 AM I stumbled upon this thread in a search about undead and dragonmarks. I am gearing up for running Eyes of the Lich Queen while finishing off Grasp of the Emerald Claw. One of the PCs is a human dread necromancer [Heroes of Horror] from Karrnath with the necropolitan template [Libris Mortis] (JSYK, the PC wears a ring of disguise undead). The rest are two shifters and an orc.

Here's where the problem lies: Eyes of the Lich Queen forces aberrant dragonmarks on non-dragonmarked race PCs, which I have a hard time getting past. Additionally, I don't know what to do for the undead, necropolitan human dread necromancer. I found a few aberrant dragonmark abilities that would be perfect for the character, but being undead would render them inert.

One idea I had for the necropolitan human was to have the curse remove the template in addition to granting the aberrant dragonmark to further emphasize the power of this curse. For the others, I'm not so sure. It just feels wrong to ignore the base concept of dragonmarks. I have considered given them the draconic template or some sort of fiendish characteristic instead. Perhaps giving them a warlock invocation appropriate to their characters might work as well.
I'm open to other ideas.
TiwazTyrsfist
08-13-07, 04:01 PM Amaril: So, give the necropolitan a dragonmark and have it not work. It itches constantly, and is sapping his unlife, due to the cursed nature. When they resolve things, it goes away. For him, it's much more of a curse than it is for the others. It's the price of his previous choices, Ne?

OP: I'd say you're looking at two options. One is not allowing any undead to use the Dragonmarks. This is RAW, and saves setting conflicts. The other is to allow special undead (evolved UD, maybe with an extra feat) to use their pre-death Dragonmarks, and possibly advance them. However, if you do that, you basicly have to avoid using anything involving Blood of Vol, since you'd have kind of removed Vol's primary motivation, Viz, Restoring the power of the MoD.

You can do it. It's just that it'll make things harder later on.
Cervante
08-22-07, 05:40 PM Another thought is he can use his dragon mark for some unknown reason which makes him of interest to the Blood of Vol. Could be a nice plot point for you.
DM-Scott
08-23-07, 03:37 AM Uhhh, curiously aren't intelligent undead usually of some sort of augmented type? For example, a Human Vampire would be Undead (Augmented Human) wouldn't it? Don't have my books, so not sure...

But I'd say that would count as "Human" for dragon-marks...

Any thoughts, or reasons why this wouldn't be so?
Cifer
08-24-07, 10:01 AM Any thoughts, or reasons why this wouldn't be so?
Erandis d'Vol is trying to get her dragonmark working for several millenia by now, but is still not succesful. Does that count?
Rekko
08-24-07, 10:19 AM Make dragonmarked undead use action points to activate its abilities. Considering action points are for PCs only, and that there is close to none NPC with action points, this solution enables PCs to become dragonmarked undeads at a great cost and justifies why no dragonmarked undead NPC has manifested its power (e.g. Vol).

Further more, allowing this would attract the attention on your undead dragonmarked PC. Not only by Vol, but the dragons and possibly Aerenal, dragonmarked researchers of the Twelve, karrnathi undead researchers also, and other individual or group I can't think of or for the DM to invent.

Rekko
Amaril
08-24-07, 10:29 AM Make dragonmarked undead use action points to activate its abilities. Considering action points are for PCs only, and that there is close to none NPC with action points, this solution enables PCs to become dragonmarked undeads at a great cost and justifies why no dragonmarked undead NPC has manifested its power (e.g. Vol).

Further more, allowing this would attract the attention on your undead dragonmarked PC. Not only by Vol, but the dragons and possibly Aerenal, dragonmarked researchers of the Twelve, karrnathi undead researchers also, and other individual or group I can't think of or for the DM to invent.

Rekko

In all honesty, Vol would definitely be an NPC with the Heroic Spirit feat, or at least in my campaign she would, especially if she was so bent on recovering the power of her mark. I really don't think undead should be able to activate a dragonmark as it would be extremely world shattering.
Sergikins
08-26-07, 10:16 AM Aramil

I had a similar problem involving eyes of the lich queen. party is a minotaur, a khalstar, and a lesser teifling human (we ruled lesser teifling as a template, i don't even know why it is a race). i did what was reccomnded, and granted resist energy, except to the teifling, he had a mark of passage already.

you could make a plot hook for later (and explan possibly why Vol is hunting them down) by making him manifest the mark of death. i just wouldn't tell him that its teh mark of death. if the PC can manifest it, then Vol has a real reason to hunt them down, to find out why he can but she cannot.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
wolffman007 05-14-07, 01:09 PM	i know per RAW this isnt allowed, im wanting thoughts/opinions/feedback on the idea, to see if its viable/possible & such do you think it would be ok to allow intelligent undead to retain, use & maybe even expand upon their dragonmarks? im wondering if there would be a difference between the positive & negative undead? of course the DM couldnt be passed on once you became undead i know its already been established with Vol this isnt possible thanxs all
DragoonDarkfire 05-14-07, 01:31 PM	Hmmm well... I am having this problem with a Dragonmarked heir enemy to my PC's becoming a Vampire and I don't know what to do with his five lost class levels...
DarkWarriorKarg 05-14-07, 01:38 PM	Hmmm well... I am having this problem with a Dragonmarked heir enemy to my PC's becoming a Vampire and I don't know what to do with his five lost class levels... Make him an evolved undead. (Libris Mortis) and/or freebies in an undead PrC. Evolved Master Vampire. Why? Effects of the Prophecy, of course.
bad_phil 05-14-07, 02:38 PM	Look at Lady Vol, one of her ultimate goal is to revive her lost mark. She's a lich, so her mark is "dead". This is one of her goal including revenge over her ennemies. You might find a way, like the evolved undead pointed above. But I wouln't allow it. That reminds me of the eternal tread wether non-dragonmarked race could have a dragonmark. I say yes on very specific condition or if it's in a quest matter, but no in general. You better have a good reason. Nice tatoo by the way.
Logos7 05-14-07, 02:52 PM	You still dont know if a dead dm can activate DM Items which is where i think the money is anyway The DM Items coming after Vol was whipped i thought. Sure it's wasted feats but being fun Undead will help make up for it (Perhaps even make it good for reducing the LA by 1 or something like that. Logos
Psionycx 05-15-07, 08:59 PM	Obviously DM's can do whatever they like. But I think that the theme that dragonmarks are specific to certain types of individuals is a major element of their theme. Especially since Dragonmarked came out and special magic is now associated with them. Vol, a powerful arcane spellcaster, obviously wants the Makr of Death revived to support magics that she cannot cast herself now that she's undead and her mark is inert. It makes a certain sense that undeath doesn't automatically allow you keep everything you had in life, or else everybody with even the vaguest means would be in a hurry to become undead. The Twelve are based in Karrnath for example, yet there isn't an abundance of undead members of dragonmarked houses. Perhaps because the Twelve know that the marks stop working when you become undead?
Cifer 05-16-07, 07:42 AM	I'd strongly advise you not to let undead use marks. A major point of the setting (Lady d'Vol, the Blood of Vol and the Emerald Claw) revolt around this problem and I doubt that any neonate vampire can achieve what Vol is trying since several thousand years. For the given NPC, just take out the DM heir levels, swap them for the CR upgrade of the vampire template and put something else on top.
Amaril 08-13-07, 09:04 AM	I stumbled upon this thread in a search about undead and dragonmarks. I am gearing up for running Eyes of the Lich Queen while finishing off Grasp of the Emerald Claw. One of the PCs is a human dread necromancer [Heroes of Horror] from Karrnath with the necropolitan template [Libris Mortis] (JSYK, the PC wears a ring of disguise undead). The rest are two shifters and an orc. Here's where the problem lies: Eyes of the Lich Queen forces aberrant dragonmarks on non-dragonmarked race PCs, which I have a hard time getting past. Additionally, I don't know what to do for the undead, necropolitan human dread necromancer. I found a few aberrant dragonmark abilities that would be perfect for the character, but being undead would render them inert. One idea I had for the necropolitan human was to have the curse remove the template in addition to granting the aberrant dragonmark to further emphasize the power of this curse. For the others, I'm not so sure. It just feels wrong to ignore the base concept of dragonmarks. I have considered given them the draconic template or some sort of fiendish characteristic instead. Perhaps giving them a warlock invocation appropriate to their characters might work as well. I'm open to other ideas.
TiwazTyrsfist 08-13-07, 04:01 PM	Amaril: So, give the necropolitan a dragonmark and have it not work. It itches constantly, and is sapping his unlife, due to the cursed nature. When they resolve things, it goes away. For him, it's much more of a curse than it is for the others. It's the price of his previous choices, Ne? OP: I'd say you're looking at two options. One is not allowing any undead to use the Dragonmarks. This is RAW, and saves setting conflicts. The other is to allow special undead (evolved UD, maybe with an extra feat) to use their pre-death Dragonmarks, and possibly advance them. However, if you do that, you basicly have to avoid using anything involving Blood of Vol, since you'd have kind of removed Vol's primary motivation, Viz, Restoring the power of the MoD. You can do it. It's just that it'll make things harder later on.
Cervante 08-22-07, 05:40 PM	Another thought is he can use his dragon mark for some unknown reason which makes him of interest to the Blood of Vol. Could be a nice plot point for you.
DM-Scott 08-23-07, 03:37 AM	Uhhh, curiously aren't intelligent undead usually of some sort of augmented type? For example, a Human Vampire would be Undead (Augmented Human) wouldn't it? Don't have my books, so not sure... But I'd say that would count as "Human" for dragon-marks... Any thoughts, or reasons why this wouldn't be so?
Cifer 08-24-07, 10:01 AM	Any thoughts, or reasons why this wouldn't be so? Erandis d'Vol is trying to get her dragonmark working for several millenia by now, but is still not succesful. Does that count?
Rekko 08-24-07, 10:19 AM	Make dragonmarked undead use action points to activate its abilities. Considering action points are for PCs only, and that there is close to none NPC with action points, this solution enables PCs to become dragonmarked undeads at a great cost and justifies why no dragonmarked undead NPC has manifested its power (e.g. Vol). Further more, allowing this would attract the attention on your undead dragonmarked PC. Not only by Vol, but the dragons and possibly Aerenal, dragonmarked researchers of the Twelve, karrnathi undead researchers also, and other individual or group I can't think of or for the DM to invent. Rekko
Amaril 08-24-07, 10:29 AM	Make dragonmarked undead use action points to activate its abilities. Considering action points are for PCs only, and that there is close to none NPC with action points, this solution enables PCs to become dragonmarked undeads at a great cost and justifies why no dragonmarked undead NPC has manifested its power (e.g. Vol). Further more, allowing this would attract the attention on your undead dragonmarked PC. Not only by Vol, but the dragons and possibly Aerenal, dragonmarked researchers of the Twelve, karrnathi undead researchers also, and other individual or group I can't think of or for the DM to invent. Rekko In all honesty, Vol would definitely be an NPC with the Heroic Spirit feat, or at least in my campaign she would, especially if she was so bent on recovering the power of her mark. I really don't think undead should be able to activate a dragonmark as it would be extremely world shattering.
Sergikins 08-26-07, 10:16 AM	Aramil I had a similar problem involving eyes of the lich queen. party is a minotaur, a khalstar, and a lesser teifling human (we ruled lesser teifling as a template, i don't even know why it is a race). i did what was reccomnded, and granted resist energy, except to the teifling, he had a mark of passage already. you could make a plot hook for later (and explan possibly why Vol is hunting them down) by making him manifest the mark of death. i just wouldn't tell him that its teh mark of death. if the PC can manifest it, then Vol has a real reason to hunt them down, to find out why he can but she cannot.