Post/Author/DateTime	Post
eternalGM 12-23-07, 04:06 PM	Is there a book such as Complete Artificer? i dont literally mean that name but is there an ebberon supplement that provides Prc's or new infusions? Any reference would be appreciated!
Lazaro 12-23-07, 06:37 PM	Try looking in Magic of Eberron.
Edymnion 12-23-07, 09:05 PM	Yeah, Magic of Eberron is an Artificer's best friend. Just watch out on some of the infusions, as the Augment Natural Weapon line of infusions, as written, don't work. Infusions can only be done on objects or constructs, and a natural weapon is never an object, it is part of a creature. So, change the wording to say it has to be put on gloves, or something like that.
eternalGM 12-24-07, 04:20 PM	Thanks! I just got Magic of Ebberon, havnt gotten that far.... Btw does it have feats as well as infusions? Prestige classes? Maybe something that gives a bigger craft reserve?
Edymnion 12-24-07, 05:43 PM	Btw does it have feats as well as infusions? Prestige classes? Maybe something that gives a bigger craft reserve?In order: Yes, yes, no.
Loki5654 12-27-07, 02:28 PM	Apparently, Edy doesn't want to toot his own horn. Edymnion wrote a really good unofficial Artificer's guide that I really found helpful when I last played an artificer. Here's the link: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=813665
eternalGM 12-29-07, 10:03 PM	Edymnion...... That is the best bunch of artificer advice I have ever seen. Im being dead pan serious, if you wanted to work for Wizards o' the Coast for Ebberon 4.0 I would reccomend you! I think the best part was your analysis of the difficulty level of playing an artificer, it was genius! So once again thank you Edymnion for that article and thank you Loki5654 for finding it!
Edymnion 01-01-08, 04:36 PM	and thank you Loki5654 for finding it!Well, the link to it *is* stickied to the top of this forum. ;)
Loki5654 01-02-08, 01:17 PM	Well, the link to it *is* stickied to the top of this forum. ;) I know that my brain tends to skip over the stickied threads as a matter of habit, simply because they seldom change and I feel I don't need to pay attention to them every time I log in. I wouldn't be surprised if others had developed the same habit. Still, I think its a great piece and should be touted whenever possible. Thanks again, Edy, from both myself and my Unbound Scroll, Genbo Santor d'Sivis.
Waywalker 01-02-08, 07:52 PM	Still, I think its a great piece and should be touted whenever possible. Seconded! I can't believe how much better I am at doing what an Artificer does since I've read that. I've got it printed out and tabbed into my character binder. Full color and all! It was just worth it!
eternalGM 01-03-08, 12:25 AM	I made new character that has similar build to Hordeificer only he also is partys main healer and uses his little packmates as healbots that do potioneer duties. His current homunculus count is: 3 packmates, 1 dedicated wright, 1 iron defender(pimped out, i bought frikin barding for it!), and one furtive filcher(cloak of elvenkind).
Waywalker 01-03-08, 07:05 AM	Nice little army going there, EternalGM! Personally, I worry about my homunculi (I have a wright, a packmate, and an Expeditious Messenger) getting killed and taking that massive damage myself. The packmate is the only one who really gets into the thick of things, and I'm not sure I want to beef him up. Have you given your packmates any more HD? As I run into AoE spells that damage him more than anything, I was thinking of getting him some type of Evasion ability someday. Just a dream, as there's no way that I can see to do that full time, but it's a neat idea. Any thoughts there? Healbots do tend to be a main target in the game I play in.
Edymnion 01-03-08, 08:39 AM	It will decrease their efficiency, but since they are creatures and not magic items, try slapping something with anti-magic on them. They can still run around and distribute potions, they just can't use them on people (they can just hand them over). Alchemical healing would work though. And they would be completely immune to all forms of magical attack, targeted, area, or otherwise.
Kinger 01-03-08, 03:21 PM	Don't forget that Improved Homonculus can give your little animated endtable Evasion as an ability. I learned how useful that could have been in a recent game. Magic items don't have very good saves, generally, so if your packmate dies in a fireball spell there's a good chance a lot of your gear is toast too.
trelainex 01-17-08, 12:48 AM	I first read Edymnion artificer thread when he posted it back like two years ago, it was amazing, and still is. I doubt they'll come out with an Artificer book, simply because the Artificer is very Eberron specific, which is not to say they couldn't do it, I would have preferred it over the warlock in 4e myself.. but then I'm biased.
Edymnion 01-17-08, 09:00 AM	I doubt they'll come out with an Artificer bookConsidering the route 4e is taking, there may not even be an Artificer in 4eberron. They are removing all of the craft skills and the like, so I don't know what they plan on doing with the Artificer.
larry_the_titan 01-17-08, 12:57 PM	Considering the route 4e is taking, there may not even be an Artificer in 4eberron. They are removing all of the craft skills and the like, so I don't know what they plan on doing with the Artificer. Several posters on the 4E boards have been throwing around the concept of a Artifice Power Source with the Artificer as the Leader and a mixture of other classes filling out the Striker, Controler and Defender spots. Just because item creation has changed doesn't mean that the Artificer has to go. I personally wanted to know what Edymnion and Hellcow think about this idea.
bulletprooffox 01-20-08, 01:53 AM	I can't remember what the actual class was called, and it may have been outdated as version 3.0, though I am not sure. It was an old epic insights prestige class on the wizards site, it mimicked the Artificer in many ways and may have been the initial impetus behind the development behind the class. It is an epic class, but it increases the pool of XP for creating magic items that the artificer has.
Sensual_Enigma_Tourmaline 01-23-08, 12:49 PM	Considering the route 4e is taking, there may not even be an Artificer in 4eberron. They are removing all of the craft skills and the like, so I don't know what they plan on doing with the Artificer. Then just keep on playing 3E, lol. I plan on playing both editions at the same time. I have my respects and regards for both. :)
Edymnion 01-23-08, 06:17 PM	Then just keep on playing 3E, lol. I plan on playing both editions at the same time. I have my respects and regards for both. :)I plan to, actually. 4e for me, so far, has been about 10% cool, 50% eh, and 40% completely :censored:ing me off.
Deschain of Gilead 01-28-08, 11:48 PM	I plan to, actually. 4e for me, so far, has been about 10% cool, 50% eh, and 40% completely :censored:ing me off. You've summarized my 4E feelings completely.
Amaril 01-29-08, 03:46 PM	Yeah, Magic of Eberron is an Artificer's best friend. Just watch out on some of the infusions, as the Augment Natural Weapon line of infusions, as written, don't work. Infusions can only be done on objects or constructs, and a natural weapon is never an object, it is part of a creature. So, change the wording to say it has to be put on gloves, or something like that. Actually, I used this same infusion for my iron defender's bite.
Edymnion 01-29-08, 07:08 PM	Actually, I used this same infusion for my iron defender's bite.Yeah, its a construct, so that works. But as presented, its supposed to be usable on anybody, like shifters.
Amaril 01-29-08, 07:39 PM	Yeah, its a construct, so that works. But as presented, its supposed to be usable on anybody, like shifters.Huh, I never got that impression. I just assumed it was for warforged or other constructs.
Edymnion 01-30-08, 01:30 PM	Whoops, I need to call foul on myself here, actually. Natural Weapon Augmentation is in Races of Eberron, not Magic of Eberron (which would explain it's lack of understanding when it comes to how Eberron works). Huh, I never got that impression. I just assumed it was for warforged or other constructs.The initial spell (personal augmentation) is limited to personal, and has a specific special bonus when used by Warforged characters (which would be redundant if only WF could cast it on themselves in the first place). The only other intelligent construct I can think of that would be able to use this would be the Nimblewright, and they aren't even in Eberron by default. The next step up that lets you put it on others specifically has a target of creature touched, not construct touched. And you can't even really claim to be putting the infusion in an item for the character to wear/hold, as the target is specifically the creature touched, which constructs aside, are always an invalid target for an Infusion. And I still haven't figured out what the purpose of the WF bonus is in the first place. You cast it at +1 caster level, but it doesn't have any caster level dependent properties, so whats the point?
Kinger 01-30-08, 01:43 PM	You cast it at +1 caster level, but it doesn't have any caster level dependent properties, so whats the point? Harder to dispel? Also, does Caster Level not factor into the duration?
Edymnion 01-30-08, 07:18 PM	Harder to dispel? Also, does Caster Level not factor into the duration?Ah, good catch! It is indeed one minute per caster level, which means the WF casters get a longer duration!
Kinger 01-30-08, 10:50 PM	One minute per caster level? I hope the casting time's only a standard action, otherwise that hardly seems worth it at any level below 5 or so.
Edymnion 02-01-08, 08:08 PM	One minute per caster level? I hope the casting time's only a standard action, otherwise that hardly seems worth it at any level below 5 or so.Same as Personal Weapon Augmentation.
Arz 02-06-08, 12:00 PM	Since this thread has already been somewhat derailed.... How do people feel about using multiple dedicated wrights for other craft tasks? I'll give a hard example of an artificer that made a dm weep at things not done before, by the rules, and logically: DW1: Sits there in my shop at the guild crafting for wages. Generated the character an annual income of 14,600gp for a 6th lvl alchemist. DW2: Working away in a portable hole carried by my packmate. He generated such an incredible amount of alchemical products that there were serious supply issues. It would variously run out of materials and generate way too much product before I would get around to changing his orders. DW3: He was my potion brewer. Had the same problems as the DW2 but with the added control that I would refuse him xp if he made too many potions of X. I made a mistake with him once in early lvls and he drained off a lvls worth of xp. That's only what I had going on for the potion side. I could have built a wright for income purposes for every craft skill I had. They wouldn't have achieved near the same results since alchemical savant lvls is what made the first one so much on top of it being my best craft skill. The DM was trying to keep us cash poor and I set this up early lvl 4 and explained to him what was going to happen at higher lvls. We came to a compromise after month 1 of lvl 6 when my wright earned me twice my share in loot. So what do you people think?
Phalon1 02-24-08, 01:14 AM	DW1: Sits there in my shop at the guild crafting for wages. Generated the character an annual income of 14,600gp for a 6th lvl alchemist. Well first if I was your DM I would place in game restrictions on things like this. Like needing a clerk of some sort to run the shop since a dedicated wright is average intelligence and sub slandered charisma so technically they may be able to run a shop on their own, but who would by stuff from a small homonculus. So that would reducer your earning either through lack of people buying or from pay to your clerk. Plus other ideas that would keep the PC busy. DW2: Working away in a portable hole carried by my packmate. He generated such an incredible amount of alchemical products that there were serious supply issues. It would variously run out of materials and generate way too much product before I would get around to changing his orders. This could be useful if your DM allows you to use material form 3.0 if not then this is only a minor annoyance to a DM. the alchemical items are useful but only so much many would have to be sold if he was constenlty making them then you would have plenty for your party but they would have limited uses in game. if 3.0 material is allowed then this could be a problem for any DM. DW3: He was my potion brewer. Had the same problems as the DW2 but with the added control that I would refuse him xp if he made too many potions of X. I made a mistake with him once in early lvls and he drained off a lvls worth of xp. if I read the description for dedicated wright right then you would have to spend one hr with it for every potion so just leaving it their would not accomplish anything nor would it be able to use up all your XP without you knowing because you would have to initiate the process each time. Although I would have allowed this their would have been many in game recriminations. I would not have killed you character out right that would have been no fun, but I would have taken you on many side quests and made some real world events to affect you monetary and magical gains. Remember that the shop and other things are not static when you are off adventuring a return trip from Xen'drik could see your shop in ruins. Possibly a nearby rival that could regularly sends thieves to steel you stuff and money; you and possibly your whole party having to figure out who it is and stop him. Or while adventuring some strange magic interference (possibly in the Mourrn lands) caused your packmate and all that is in it to melt down not causing your harm but you would no longer have a packmate or the dedicated wrights inside. Or simply have it killed through a quirk of in game combat which would result in 6d10 damage that you may not survive of course this last is highly rule dependent. These are just some ideas that I had I also thought of some of these possibilities for feature play and so as DM these are some of the responses I would implement.
Arz 02-25-08, 10:07 AM	Well first if I was your DM I would place in game restrictions on things like this. Like needing a clerk of some sort to run the shop since a dedicated wright is average intelligence and sub slandered charisma so technically they may be able to run a shop on their own, but who would by stuff from a small homonculus. So that would reducer your earning either through lack of people buying or from pay to your clerk. Plus other ideas that would keep the PC busy.. I was paying a hefty guild fee of 20% plus mandatory weeks per level invested in doing guild business without pay. We kinda assumed for all that they could handle the sales staff. if I read the description for dedicated wright right then you would have to spend one hr with it for every potion so just leaving it their would not accomplish anything nor would it be able to use up all your XP without you knowing because you would have to initiate the process each time. Nothing in the rules limits the wright to only producing one potion. It can just keep on going as long as it doesn't switch to a new type of potion. Although I would have allowed this their would have been many in game recriminations. I would not have killed you character out right that would have been no fun, but I would have taken you on many side quests and made some real world events to affect you monetary and magical gains. Remember that the shop and other things are not static when you are off adventuring a return trip from Xen'drik could see your shop in ruins. Possibly a nearby rival that could regularly sends thieves to steel you stuff and money; you and possibly your whole party having to figure out who it is and stop him. Or while adventuring some strange magic interference (possibly in the Mourrn lands) caused your packmate and all that is in it to melt down not causing your harm but you would no longer have a packmate or the dedicated wrights inside. Or simply have it killed through a quirk of in game combat which would result in 6d10 damage that you may not survive of course this last is highly rule dependent. These are just some ideas that I had I also thought of some of these possibilities for feature play and so as DM these are some of the responses I would implement. Umm, as a DM too, I do hope attempt to compromise and work problems out with your DM before you fireball their stuff or worse just take things away without opportunity to recover it. My problem came up mostly because the DM was keep us scantily paid and I was generating more money than the party was making. I had explained everything well in advance and we sat down and talked it over. He later totally forgot all about it even though I had all the info conveniently linked on the group wiki. This included the complete list of items made and items in queue along with a business page. Unfortunately the DM's reaction was to hobble the character and cause him endless suffering. I ended up retiring from the campaign more because I discovered that his pace of advancement didn't suit my tastes as a player. Found I like hard challenges and swashbuckling advancement with some trustworthy NPCs that I like in an area we frequent. Damn that's an off topic reply.
Edymnion 02-25-08, 12:45 PM	Nothing in the rules limits the wright to only producing one potion. It can just keep on going as long as it doesn't switch to a new type of potion.IIRC, the Artificer has to be there to start each new item the Wright makes. Each potion counts as a seperate item. You cannot make more than one item at once, so you can't start a dozen of the same potion. Hence, TMK, no, the Wright could not make more than one potion while you are gone.