Daelkyr Gender [Archive] - Wizards Community

Daelkyr Gender [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
FenrysStar
07-11-07, 01:13 PM Are all Daelkyr on Eberron male? I have this scenario adventure being planned for a couple of conventions I am attending and am thinking of making the main villain a female daelkyr that somehow got loose from her prison in Xen'Drik. You can probably guess what the main goal of the adventure/campaign is.
Syltorian
07-11-07, 01:23 PM No, they're not all male. I'm afraid no Daelkyr is: ECS 279 clearly states that they are sexless...
GimliGloinson
07-11-07, 01:33 PM In other words, you could play up the androgenous-ness. David Bowie as a bad guy, yet again? Hmmm. Or like Sting from Dune.
FenrysStar
07-11-07, 02:16 PM Now unless something has changed since the original printing, I just looked and read the Daelkyr entry in the ECS and there was no mention of gender or them being asexual. Mind Flayers are traditionally asexual but that's because they start life as strange tadpoles in the Elder Brain Pool and then are attached to sentient beings who morph into the mind flayer form. The first brain that it consumes is the one in the body of the victim that will eventually transform into the body it will use for the rest of its existance.
GimliGloinson
07-11-07, 02:22 PM Looked up the Daelkyr in ECS. What it says is they are perfect-looking athletic humans, sans reproductive organs. So I'd go with the male-only view, though house-ruling a perfect female body daelkyr wouldn't upset anyone too much, I would suppose.
FenrysStar
07-11-07, 03:42 PM I'm apparently missing a sentence or three when I'm reading the entry for Daelkyr in the moster section of ECS.
Symar
07-11-07, 03:49 PM Always look male, yet sexless- just looked it up myself. But it's your game, I suppose it could look female, but retain the sexless aspect.
Alex_
07-11-07, 04:00 PM They're kind of like Xerxes in the movie 300. Yeah they kind of look like a guy, but you're not 100% sure.
Concerto
07-11-07, 05:12 PM Well, its my personal oppinion, but it is more of a personality difference than a gender issue. Such as there are some Warforged who are more feminine in their behavior, despite being genderless. And then ofcourse, there are examples like Flea from Chrono Trigger.

In the end though, since they hail from madness, I am sure it isn't immpossible for something like that happening. Predictably unpredictable.
Bluebrush
07-11-07, 06:27 PM The Daelkyr have six genders: up, down, charm, strange, top, and fnord.
Though most only have three or four at once.
Syltorian
07-11-07, 07:07 PM I'm apparently missing a sentence or three when I'm reading the entry for Daelkyr in the moster section of ECS.

It's on page 279, left column, top paragraph, third line. Just above the "Combat" section: the flavour part continues just that tiny bit over the page, describing their appearance and genderless nature, before going on to state what languages they speak.

Of course, with their ability to use polymorph and other shape-changing powers, looking like a female would be easy, if it wants to.
Symar
07-11-07, 07:24 PM The Daelkyr have six genders: up, down, charm, strange, top, and fnord.
Though most only have three or four at once.

So Daelkyr are one of the fundamental units of matter, making up protons, neutrons, and electrons? Wow... no wonder they have flesh-shaping powers!

D'oh, "fnord" is NOT a quark, what was I thinking?
ArcTan
07-12-07, 12:10 AM Looked up the Daelkyr in ECS. What it says is they are perfect-looking athletic humans, sans reproductive organs. So I'd go with the male-only view, though house-ruling a perfect female body daelkyr wouldn't upset anyone too much, I would suppose.

If you have no reproductive organs, you aren't male, *or* female. Kind of by definition.

They look "male" in the sense that we think of neuter bodies without any secondary sexual characteristics as male rather than female, because we think of maleness as the default.
ArcTan
07-12-07, 12:11 AM Well, its my personal oppinion, but it is more of a personality difference than a gender issue. Such as there are some Warforged who are more feminine in their behavior, despite being genderless. And then ofcourse, there are examples like Flea from Chrono Trigger.

In the end though, since they hail from madness, I am sure it isn't immpossible for something like that happening. Predictably unpredictable.

I would be disappointed if a being that's supposed to be of pure madness and alienness ended up having something as predictable as a gender.
JulesCARV
07-12-07, 12:34 AM What if some individual Daelkyr had their own gender identities which were unique to them as individuals, and not found in anyone else (Daelkyr or not), something totally disconnected from any gender that any mortal has ever heard of? Most Daelkyr might not care about gender at all, but you could have a few of them have really demented gender identities that are as seperate from the male/female dichotomy as Daelkyr "political views" are from conventional views from either the Aundairan or Thranish side about the occupation of Thaliost.
FenrysStar
07-12-07, 12:49 AM OK, for the adventure I am writing up, the Daelkyr has decided that shi is a true hermaphrodite. Although I have my own reasons for doing so. I still think that something as powerful as a daelkyr can make itself a particular gender if it wants. Who knows you could have one that is particularly bishi and alters its gender as it sees fit for a given situation.
taski
07-12-07, 01:37 AM The way I see it, Daelkyr view gender as just another hue on the world-palate. Some like it, some think its as ugly as puce. But few would want to be their paint.
TiwazTyrsfist
07-12-07, 05:13 PM Daelkyr are the top line, dominate life form of the plane of madness.

Their gender is whatever they want it to be at any given time.

After all, when things like mouths are optional accessories, and you can change your fingers into knives, gender probably isn't important.

Do we even know A) if they can reproduce B) how they reproduce?
No, and I really don't want to, as I have eaten recently, and the details of the mating habits of the Lords of the Realm of Madness would probably upset prostitute and serial killer alike.
Bluebrush
07-12-07, 06:16 PM Do we even know A) if they can reproduce B) how they reproduce?Well, they're outsiders.

I'm not sure if it's in D&D or Eberron Canon anywhere, but based on board posted by KB I think the deal with outsiders is that their numbers are constant, and when one dies, it's esscence returns to it's home plane and creates a new outsider of the same type.
The more powerful outsiders get to keep their memories, while the even more powerful may get to retain their personality.

So Daelkyr probably don't reproduce. They are a part of Xoriat in the same way the hills, grass and swarms of talking hamburger-things are.
Syltorian
07-12-07, 08:06 PM Do we even know A) if they can reproduce

Actually, we do know: ECS, p.279: "Daelkyr are sexless and do not reproduce."

By the way... as Bluebrush says, a dead outsider reforms on its homeplane. But what if that homeplane is remote/shut out? The Daelkyr cannot go back, nor can anything really cross over to Eberron. It's not as remote as Dal Quor, but Xoriat does not seem to be able to properly align at the moment.

Does that remove them from the cycle, do they reform in Khyber, or return on the other side of the Seals? Except for the middle solution, it would be possible to rid Eberron of them once and for all (provided you can find someone powerful enough to kill them, of course...)
SmiloDan
07-16-07, 12:27 AM Just make "her" smooth like Selma Hayek in "Dogma."
Darth Syntax
07-16-07, 01:07 AM I've always assumed that asking about a Daelkry's gender would be akin to asking what the sound of green was. Daelkyr are outsiders, they don't reproduce, and they don't have a psychology that in any way resembles our own. Both gender and biological sex would be meaningless to them.
Cromage
07-16-07, 01:29 AM Are all Daelkyr on Eberron male? I have this scenario adventure being planned for a couple of conventions I am attending and am thinking of making the main villain a female daelkyr that somehow got loose from her prison in Xen'Drik. You can probably guess what the main goal of the adventure/campaign is.

Daelkyr can't be *technically* female, but that doesn't mean you can't create a BBEG with a slender frame, melodious voice, flowing clothing/jewelry, and an oddly-shaped breastplate symbiont that the ignorant would perceive as a female Daelkyr. Hermaphrodite works too.
Zen_Hydra
07-16-07, 02:30 PM I personally think it is most fitting for the Daelkyr entry to be just a specific example of one of them. I am personally leaning on using the unique D&D demons and devils as other Daelkyr. I have a problem with any sort of uniformity in my lords of madness.

If you just feel that you need to stick as close to canon as possible, I would suggest modeling the Daelkyr on the androgynous, Gabriel, character played by Tilda Swinton in the movie Constantine.
ArcTan
07-16-07, 08:56 PM I personally think it is most fitting for the Daelkyr entry to be just a specific example of one of them. I am personally leaning on using the unique D&D demons and devils as other Daelkyr. I have a problem with any sort of uniformity in my lords of madness.

Honestly, I think one of the creepy things about Daelkyr *is* that they're these perfect-looking human-like beings surrounded by icky tentacular things. If it's just icky tentacular things surrounded by other icky tentacular things then it's something we've seen a million times before.
The Dreaming Duck
07-16-07, 11:16 PM Honestly, I think one of the creepy things about Daelkyr *is* that they're these perfect-looking human-like beings surrounded by icky tentacular things. If it's just icky tentacular things surrounded by other icky tentacular things then it's something we've seen a million times before.
I completely agree.

To me, the other issue is that there seems to be a tendancy to associate "madness" with gooeyness and tentacles. In my opinion, unearthly perfection can be just as disturbing, alien, and horrifying as bizzare blobiness. It's the dark mirror of the reality we can recognize, instead of something that has nothing in common with our world whatsoever.

Lovecraft had his share of gooey horrors, but Nyarlathotep could also take the form of a regal man when dealing with mortals. TO me, that's exactly what the daelkyr are. We know they AREN'T the greatest powers of Xoriat; Hellcow's said there are things closer to Azazthoth in Xoriat itself. But they are the travelers to other worlds. The form their wear may simply be a mask. But it's a mocking mask, one showing a vision of perfection surrounded by corruption.
Zen_Hydra
07-17-07, 08:27 AM I completely agree.

To me, the other issue is that there seems to be a tendancy to associate "madness" with gooeyness and tentacles. In my opinion, unearthly perfection can be just as disturbing, alien, and horrifying as bizzare blobiness. It's the dark mirror of the reality we can recognize, instead of something that has nothing in common with our world whatsoever. mocking mask, one showing a vision of perfection surrounded by corruption.

This is why I think that using the unique, fiend lords as the Daelkyr does work. These beings are already a beautiful/horrifying mockery of the natural world. I personally think that the Daelkyr should all be unique beings, and there just happen to be a group of monsters that fit the bill (IMO).
ArcTan
07-17-07, 07:31 PM This is why I think that using the unique, fiend lords as the Daelkyr does work. These beings are already a beautiful/horrifying mockery of the natural world. I personally think that the Daelkyr should all be unique beings, and there just happen to be a group of monsters that fit the bill (IMO).

Well, not really. Some of them are -- the more human-looking ones, like Asmodeus and Glasya and Belial and Grazz't. Others are pretty clearly not.

Frankly, I'd rather save Fiend Lords as Overlords of the First Age or their underlings, which are each *supposed* to represent a different concept inherent to the natural world, and keep the Daelkyr alien and frighteningly inscrutable -- making them identical makes them harder to pin down.
TiwazTyrsfist
07-18-07, 01:03 AM I like that the ones from the novels are discribed as being identical, but with some specific difference that is part of their signature.

I.E. The lord of silence has no mouth. The other one, had long knives for fingers.
So, basicly, they should look identical with just one freaky difference.
I'm thinking, Lord of Shadows. Initially, when he's seen, his face is shrouded in shadows, occasionally with flashes of the nose down. During a peak part of the confrontation, he leans forward into the light, and he has no eyes. Just a perfectly smooth patch of skin where they eyes should be.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
FenrysStar 07-11-07, 01:13 PM	Are all Daelkyr on Eberron male? I have this scenario adventure being planned for a couple of conventions I am attending and am thinking of making the main villain a female daelkyr that somehow got loose from her prison in Xen'Drik. You can probably guess what the main goal of the adventure/campaign is.
Syltorian 07-11-07, 01:23 PM	No, they're not all male. I'm afraid no Daelkyr is: ECS 279 clearly states that they are sexless...
GimliGloinson 07-11-07, 01:33 PM	In other words, you could play up the androgenous-ness. David Bowie as a bad guy, yet again? Hmmm. Or like Sting from Dune.
FenrysStar 07-11-07, 02:16 PM	Now unless something has changed since the original printing, I just looked and read the Daelkyr entry in the ECS and there was no mention of gender or them being asexual. Mind Flayers are traditionally asexual but that's because they start life as strange tadpoles in the Elder Brain Pool and then are attached to sentient beings who morph into the mind flayer form. The first brain that it consumes is the one in the body of the victim that will eventually transform into the body it will use for the rest of its existance.
GimliGloinson 07-11-07, 02:22 PM	Looked up the Daelkyr in ECS. What it says is they are perfect-looking athletic humans, sans reproductive organs. So I'd go with the male-only view, though house-ruling a perfect female body daelkyr wouldn't upset anyone too much, I would suppose.
FenrysStar 07-11-07, 03:42 PM	I'm apparently missing a sentence or three when I'm reading the entry for Daelkyr in the moster section of ECS.
Symar 07-11-07, 03:49 PM	Always look male, yet sexless- just looked it up myself. But it's your game, I suppose it could look female, but retain the sexless aspect.
Alex_ 07-11-07, 04:00 PM	They're kind of like Xerxes in the movie 300. Yeah they kind of look like a guy, but you're not 100% sure.
Concerto 07-11-07, 05:12 PM	Well, its my personal oppinion, but it is more of a personality difference than a gender issue. Such as there are some Warforged who are more feminine in their behavior, despite being genderless. And then ofcourse, there are examples like Flea from Chrono Trigger. In the end though, since they hail from madness, I am sure it isn't immpossible for something like that happening. Predictably unpredictable.
Bluebrush 07-11-07, 06:27 PM	The Daelkyr have six genders: up, down, charm, strange, top, and fnord. Though most only have three or four at once.
Syltorian 07-11-07, 07:07 PM	I'm apparently missing a sentence or three when I'm reading the entry for Daelkyr in the moster section of ECS. It's on page 279, left column, top paragraph, third line. Just above the "Combat" section: the flavour part continues just that tiny bit over the page, describing their appearance and genderless nature, before going on to state what languages they speak. Of course, with their ability to use polymorph and other shape-changing powers, looking like a female would be easy, if it wants to.
Symar 07-11-07, 07:24 PM	The Daelkyr have six genders: up, down, charm, strange, top, and fnord. Though most only have three or four at once. So Daelkyr are one of the fundamental units of matter, making up protons, neutrons, and electrons? Wow... no wonder they have flesh-shaping powers! D'oh, "fnord" is NOT a quark, what was I thinking?
ArcTan 07-12-07, 12:10 AM	Looked up the Daelkyr in ECS. What it says is they are perfect-looking athletic humans, sans reproductive organs. So I'd go with the male-only view, though house-ruling a perfect female body daelkyr wouldn't upset anyone too much, I would suppose. If you have no reproductive organs, you aren't male, or female. Kind of by definition. They look "male" in the sense that we think of neuter bodies without any secondary sexual characteristics as male rather than female, because we think of maleness as the default.
ArcTan 07-12-07, 12:11 AM	Well, its my personal oppinion, but it is more of a personality difference than a gender issue. Such as there are some Warforged who are more feminine in their behavior, despite being genderless. And then ofcourse, there are examples like Flea from Chrono Trigger. In the end though, since they hail from madness, I am sure it isn't immpossible for something like that happening. Predictably unpredictable. I would be disappointed if a being that's supposed to be of pure madness and alienness ended up having something as predictable as a gender.
JulesCARV 07-12-07, 12:34 AM	What if some individual Daelkyr had their own gender identities which were unique to them as individuals, and not found in anyone else (Daelkyr or not), something totally disconnected from any gender that any mortal has ever heard of? Most Daelkyr might not care about gender at all, but you could have a few of them have really demented gender identities that are as seperate from the male/female dichotomy as Daelkyr "political views" are from conventional views from either the Aundairan or Thranish side about the occupation of Thaliost.
FenrysStar 07-12-07, 12:49 AM	OK, for the adventure I am writing up, the Daelkyr has decided that shi is a true hermaphrodite. Although I have my own reasons for doing so. I still think that something as powerful as a daelkyr can make itself a particular gender if it wants. Who knows you could have one that is particularly bishi and alters its gender as it sees fit for a given situation.
taski 07-12-07, 01:37 AM	The way I see it, Daelkyr view gender as just another hue on the world-palate. Some like it, some think its as ugly as puce. But few would want to be their paint.
TiwazTyrsfist 07-12-07, 05:13 PM	Daelkyr are the top line, dominate life form of the plane of madness. Their gender is whatever they want it to be at any given time. After all, when things like mouths are optional accessories, and you can change your fingers into knives, gender probably isn't important. Do we even know A) if they can reproduce B) how they reproduce? No, and I really don't want to, as I have eaten recently, and the details of the mating habits of the Lords of the Realm of Madness would probably upset prostitute and serial killer alike.
Bluebrush 07-12-07, 06:16 PM	Do we even know A) if they can reproduce B) how they reproduce?Well, they're outsiders. I'm not sure if it's in D&D or Eberron Canon anywhere, but based on board posted by KB I think the deal with outsiders is that their numbers are constant, and when one dies, it's esscence returns to it's home plane and creates a new outsider of the same type. The more powerful outsiders get to keep their memories, while the even more powerful may get to retain their personality. So Daelkyr probably don't reproduce. They are a part of Xoriat in the same way the hills, grass and swarms of talking hamburger-things are.
Syltorian 07-12-07, 08:06 PM	Do we even know A) if they can reproduce Actually, we do know: ECS, p.279: "Daelkyr are sexless and do not reproduce." By the way... as Bluebrush says, a dead outsider reforms on its homeplane. But what if that homeplane is remote/shut out? The Daelkyr cannot go back, nor can anything really cross over to Eberron. It's not as remote as Dal Quor, but Xoriat does not seem to be able to properly align at the moment. Does that remove them from the cycle, do they reform in Khyber, or return on the other side of the Seals? Except for the middle solution, it would be possible to rid Eberron of them once and for all (provided you can find someone powerful enough to kill them, of course...)
SmiloDan 07-16-07, 12:27 AM	Just make "her" smooth like Selma Hayek in "Dogma."
Darth Syntax 07-16-07, 01:07 AM	I've always assumed that asking about a Daelkry's gender would be akin to asking what the sound of green was. Daelkyr are outsiders, they don't reproduce, and they don't have a psychology that in any way resembles our own. Both gender and biological sex would be meaningless to them.
Cromage 07-16-07, 01:29 AM	Are all Daelkyr on Eberron male? I have this scenario adventure being planned for a couple of conventions I am attending and am thinking of making the main villain a female daelkyr that somehow got loose from her prison in Xen'Drik. You can probably guess what the main goal of the adventure/campaign is. Daelkyr can't be technically female, but that doesn't mean you can't create a BBEG with a slender frame, melodious voice, flowing clothing/jewelry, and an oddly-shaped breastplate symbiont that the ignorant would perceive as a female Daelkyr. Hermaphrodite works too.
Zen_Hydra 07-16-07, 02:30 PM	I personally think it is most fitting for the Daelkyr entry to be just a specific example of one of them. I am personally leaning on using the unique D&D demons and devils as other Daelkyr. I have a problem with any sort of uniformity in my lords of madness. If you just feel that you need to stick as close to canon as possible, I would suggest modeling the Daelkyr on the androgynous, Gabriel, character played by Tilda Swinton in the movie Constantine.
ArcTan 07-16-07, 08:56 PM	I personally think it is most fitting for the Daelkyr entry to be just a specific example of one of them. I am personally leaning on using the unique D&D demons and devils as other Daelkyr. I have a problem with any sort of uniformity in my lords of madness. Honestly, I think one of the creepy things about Daelkyr is that they're these perfect-looking human-like beings surrounded by icky tentacular things. If it's just icky tentacular things surrounded by other icky tentacular things then it's something we've seen a million times before.
The Dreaming Duck 07-16-07, 11:16 PM	Honestly, I think one of the creepy things about Daelkyr is that they're these perfect-looking human-like beings surrounded by icky tentacular things. If it's just icky tentacular things surrounded by other icky tentacular things then it's something we've seen a million times before. I completely agree. To me, the other issue is that there seems to be a tendancy to associate "madness" with gooeyness and tentacles. In my opinion, unearthly perfection can be just as disturbing, alien, and horrifying as bizzare blobiness. It's the dark mirror of the reality we can recognize, instead of something that has nothing in common with our world whatsoever. Lovecraft had his share of gooey horrors, but Nyarlathotep could also take the form of a regal man when dealing with mortals. TO me, that's exactly what the daelkyr are. We know they AREN'T the greatest powers of Xoriat; Hellcow's said there are things closer to Azazthoth in Xoriat itself. But they are the travelers to other worlds. The form their wear may simply be a mask. But it's a mocking mask, one showing a vision of perfection surrounded by corruption.
Zen_Hydra 07-17-07, 08:27 AM	I completely agree. To me, the other issue is that there seems to be a tendancy to associate "madness" with gooeyness and tentacles. In my opinion, unearthly perfection can be just as disturbing, alien, and horrifying as bizzare blobiness. It's the dark mirror of the reality we can recognize, instead of something that has nothing in common with our world whatsoever. mocking mask, one showing a vision of perfection surrounded by corruption. This is why I think that using the unique, fiend lords as the Daelkyr does work. These beings are already a beautiful/horrifying mockery of the natural world. I personally think that the Daelkyr should all be unique beings, and there just happen to be a group of monsters that fit the bill (IMO).
ArcTan 07-17-07, 07:31 PM	This is why I think that using the unique, fiend lords as the Daelkyr does work. These beings are already a beautiful/horrifying mockery of the natural world. I personally think that the Daelkyr should all be unique beings, and there just happen to be a group of monsters that fit the bill (IMO). Well, not really. Some of them are -- the more human-looking ones, like Asmodeus and Glasya and Belial and Grazz't. Others are pretty clearly not. Frankly, I'd rather save Fiend Lords as Overlords of the First Age or their underlings, which are each supposed to represent a different concept inherent to the natural world, and keep the Daelkyr alien and frighteningly inscrutable -- making them identical makes them harder to pin down.
TiwazTyrsfist 07-18-07, 01:03 AM	I like that the ones from the novels are discribed as being identical, but with some specific difference that is part of their signature. I.E. The lord of silence has no mouth. The other one, had long knives for fingers. So, basicly, they should look identical with just one freaky difference. I'm thinking, Lord of Shadows. Initially, when he's seen, his face is shrouded in shadows, occasionally with flashes of the nose down. During a peak part of the confrontation, he leans forward into the light, and he has no eyes. Just a perfectly smooth patch of skin where they eyes should be.