Post/Author/DateTime	Post
NHBDY 05-27-07, 09:47 PM	I have a player that wanted to play a deathless, by going through a ritual that had him killed then resurected as a deathless (he's an elf), it would be expensive, but he would get a d12 hit dice no matter what class he takes (in addition to the other traits, such as immunities to pioson, crits, non-lethal damage, etc). would this be fair, should i allow it?
Runepriest 05-27-07, 10:06 PM	If you give him a LA of around +4 or so, yeah.
NHBDY 05-27-07, 10:10 PM	I think a +4 would be too high, that's what a lich gets, and they get touch attack an DR, so what LA would be fair (if any)?
gensuke626 05-27-07, 10:19 PM	If +4 is too high...hmm....+3? I mean, he would get an awful lot of bonuses...
NHBDY 05-27-07, 10:28 PM	I don't mean to argue, but i was thinking a +1 or +2 would be fairer, because he's not getting any attribute modifiers, or BAB modifiers, or skill modifiers, and now he's terribly vulnerable to clerics. as far as not eating, sleeping, or breathing goes, warforged get them without a LA, and you have to be an elf
gensuke626 05-27-07, 10:37 PM	well...let me go over what I see... d12 HD...not a boost at all for barbs, a nice big boost for rogues and wizards and the like. assuming that you're not going to advance via HD, so no BAB will or skill mods but... -60foot Darkvision -Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease, death effects and Mind-affecting spells and abilities. -Immune to Critical hits, Non-lethal damage, Ability drain, ability damage to it's physical scores, fatigue and exhaustion effexcts. -Immune to any effect that requires a fort save except for energy drain attacks. -Useas Cha for concentration -Immune to death from massive damage. -No need of sleep, breath, food, or water. If you built it right...all those bonuses will prove very very useful....
NHBDY 05-27-07, 10:39 PM	so what LA do you propsose?
gensuke626 05-27-07, 10:41 PM	+3. That's what I would propose as a DM, unless someone could sufficiently prove to me that all those bonuses stacked together with all the flaws of being Deathless are no better than the Bonuses of being a Drow.
NHBDY 05-27-07, 10:42 PM	if he had a dragonmark, would it still work?
gensuke626 05-27-07, 10:47 PM	That's a very good question as it actually has more than a mechanical basis. From a purely mechanics standpoint I'd say no since deathless are simply positively charged undead...and since Vol can't use her mark... However, it's up to the DM to choose the reason why any given thing works. If the Mark works because it channels life force...then what is considered life force? Is it merely positive energy (like what the deathless are powerd by) or is it soemthing more...something that's either more pure or mixed in a way that an animated construct could never achieve. Of course If a Deathless could develop and use a Dragon Mark, then that can lead into interesting stories...like...what if a Warforged suddenly began to display Dragonmark like Powers, bearing a mark that had never been seen before, but that isn't an abberant mark? Oooh...I like where this thread is going.
NHBDY 05-27-07, 10:50 PM	ditto, but how would a warforged get a DM, could it be made for him with a rare metal (like starmetal) and then enchanted for a heafty cost? Could they bring back the mark of Death?
gensuke626 05-27-07, 10:55 PM	How is definately the question...I'm thinking it'd simply manifest...I mean...Warforged at magical in nature, and it's stated in a few sources that they simply need someone to help repair them...like you don't need anything other than tools and some steel to fix a warforged with Adamantine Body...the metal simply seems to grow into place...same with the Ghural...or whatever they call that mark on their forehead, as they get repaired, it simply grows back... The thing that interests me in this area is the Mark of Becoming, mentioned int Faiths of Eberron...it doesn't have any mechanics to it...but it can lead into a very interesting story...
NHBDY 05-27-07, 11:00 PM	but that deathless would have a +3 LA? I mean for one more LA incriment, you could get DR15 and a paralyzing touch, that makes this kinda piontless, and drow are getting 4 attribute points, do you have any suggestions to make this worthwhile and balenced? PS i'm still interested in the other course this thread was taking
Runepriest 05-27-07, 11:05 PM	I meant 3-5. I said around +4.
NHBDY 05-27-07, 11:07 PM	so everyone agrees that +3 is minimum?
Leonidus 05-28-07, 01:29 AM	Actually, a better reference for this would be to compare against the Necropolitan template from Libris Mortis. Turns you into an undead, cincidentally through a ritual process, which actually *eats* one level, dropping you down. (this does mean that you simply gain the level back with experience, without an actual XP cost, but it's the whole level-of-character thing. You've gained the level, spent the time, etc.) The differences from there to deathless are minimal. Now, as a side effect, I'd say there'd be a major roleplaying downside, afterall, the elves reserve this process for their best and greatest. Doing it on your own just seems.. wrong. But it's all in how you justify the experience.
Cifer 05-28-07, 06:43 AM	+3 is definitely too much. What you forget is that the D12 hit dice are not good at all when you lack a con score. Calculating averages, undead D12 gives you a 6,5. So does having a D8 with a +2 con modifier or a D6 with a +3 or even a D4 with a +4 (easily reachable with some magic items later on). However, the drawbacks don't end there. You're immune against most effects requiring fortitude saves - but you're also pretty much down as soon as something effective (Disintegrate is fun!) comes up because you don't have a con bonus to your save. Next, you may have got immunities, but you also open up a massive vulnerability: Turning, which can easily take you out of the fight. I'd also suggest just using the necropolitan template and reversing it to positive energy.
NHBDY 05-28-07, 08:31 AM	where might i find the necropolitan template, i don't have it in a book, can someone post a link?
Ath'kethin 05-28-07, 11:01 AM	where might i find the necropolitan template, i don't have it in a book, can someone post a link? It's in Libris Mortis, page 114.
Satori 05-30-07, 09:17 PM	As a strange side note, I just thought of this... Use the Necropolitan template...but keep it as is, negative energy and all. Have the PC be a member of the Jaelre family, and RP as one of the "Stillborn". The Necropolitan template is their failed attempt to recreate the Deathless ritual. You suddenly have an undead Elf with a GREAT storyline and huge flavor.
Darakhoranon 06-02-07, 08:42 AM	And a whole army of deathless hunting you down as soon as they hear about you... After all, from the Aereni point of view negative undead are an abomination - "destroy on sight" is probably the standing order. So, yes, youŽd have storyline and flavor, but you would also face endless difficulties. I think a deathless with LA +2 should work (LA +3 is a bit much) - if weŽre talking about a deathless soldier...
silon25 12-28-07, 06:03 AM	he could just gain a prestige class that gives him deathless
Garandene_Lyrandar 01-02-08, 04:56 AM	if he had a dragonmark, would it still work? No it wouldn't. This is because death-less are essentially undead. Vol cannot use her dragonmark so therefore, unless I am missing something I would rule that a dragon mark could not be used. Give him a level adjustment of +2 but in return he takes penalties in a roleplaying sense. You can't go undercover with a guy who looks like a humanoid manifestation of Bolagnaise sauce. Make sure he knows this before he goes carking it!