Post/Author/DateTime	Post
nadethoughts 05-13-07, 05:57 PM	Which is the more Powerful PC? Forget about the fact that the Siberys mark copies a 9th level spell and the other marks don't come close for the moment . That is the way it should be. Let us begin with plain old compare and contrast: 1. DH = 5 levels; HS = 3 levels (can't really say that one amount of levels is better than another...) 2. Entry level requirements: DH = 2 feats and spending 7 skill points on any one skill; HS = 1 feat and spending 15 skill points on any one skill. (You have to wait longer to get into HS but, it is way easier to do so. 1 feat at 13th level vs. 2 feats at 4th level. Which one is easier to accomplish? ...) 3. DH = Effectively 2 feats and no spell/Power Point progression; HS = Effectively 4 feats or 2 feats and 2 spell casting levels. (So the 5 level PC gives you 2 feats... Meanwhile the 3 level PC gives you 4 feats and if you happen to be a spell caster, you can exchange 2 of those feats for spell casting levels, so you don't totally boink your character by doing the flavorful thing and taking this PC. If you are a spell caster and want to be DH prepare to suck at life.) 4. Both improve mark abilities allowing you to use them an additional time per day. DH = 1 more use of each of his/her mark abilities (3 more spell effects); HS = 1 more use of his/her mark ability (1 more spell effect.) (So you get a few more uses of DM abilities if you go DH) 5. Both get 2 more action points per level at second level (equal) 6. Both get the same saves and base attack progression. (Equal) 7. DH gets a bonus to house relations, where HS doesn't (DH comes out on top for this one.) 8. DH = D8 Hit die and 4+int skill points; HS = D6 Hit die and 2+int skill points (DH wins this round as well. Which one comes out on top? I think that Heir of Siberys is the winner, yes you get potentially less hit points and less skill points, but hey, let's face it getting 2 more feats in 2 less levels is killer or the ability to not Bork up your spell progression too bad far out ways your house liking you better and maybe being tougher. Plus I know I said forget about they Siberys mark being a 9th level spell, but if you add that one into the mix I think that the HS is just so much better. Not to mention it is easier to get into; all you have to do is wait around until 13th level, you may not get there, but the fact that Eberron is a low level campaign setting should not be a factor in balancing PC. When someone else gets the book, they can run an epic campaign in Eberron if they wanted to. People doing what the creators expected, should never be the balancing point, because that will never happen. I am getting ready to play in an Eberron campaign, and I really wanted to use the DH PC, but being that I am going to be playing a caster, I can't because I would be useless if I did...:weep:
Cifer 05-13-07, 08:58 PM	but the fact that Eberron is a low level campaign setting should not be a factor in balancing PC. It isn't. There are few high-level allies, but Lady d'Vol, the Lords of Dust, Argonessen and the Dreaming Dark can't really be described as low-level. The answer, however, is that powerwise, both classes suck. Royally so. Just like all things dragonmarkish, they're flavor. What they may provide you with is political power - but ask yourself: Since the highest characters of the houses top at around level 12, when are you going to need their assistance the most? When you're level 8 or when you're already 13+? Taking levels in DMed heir means turning away from whatever career path you had (like casting) and engaging in the wonderful political backstabbing that is usual in the houses. If you want to stay on your path, just take the DM feats. Taking levels in Syberis heir means turning into a prodigy, though it's anyone's guess how others will react.
Arcane Guyver 05-13-07, 11:31 PM	What I don't get is that the DMH gets a status bonus with their house, while an HoS doesn't. Siberys-marked are highly sought after individuals, whom the houses will stop at nothing to absorb. To the OP - I just had an idea, though I don't know how balanced it'd be. There's only one regular Dragonmark feat. Upon taking it, you gain a Least DM; as you increase in power, the Dragonmark increases in size automatically (so you don't have to blow three feats or waste five levels in a subpar PrC for a Greater DM). On a side note, that could be a good idea for a future adventure...an unassuming elf gains the Siberys Mark of Shadows, and unwittingly becomes the spark which ignites a secret war between Phiarlan and Thuranni as both wish to claim him/her.
JulesCARV 05-14-07, 04:10 PM	Personally, I say ditch the "no previous dragonmark or DMH levels" prerequisite of the Heir of Syberis. It's silly. Yes, yes, the mysterious nature of the Mark of Syberis means that sometimes it appears on someone full-fledged when they've never previously had a dragonmark, but just as mysteriously, I say it could appear on someone with 5 dragonmark heir levels. It already makes the Marks of Syberis mysterious and different that you don't need any lower-level dragonmarks to get the highest level one, but forbidding you from having lower-level dragonmarks is stupid.
Roland the Crownbreaker 05-14-07, 06:24 PM	Much better (power-wise) than the Dragonmark Heir are the new prestige classes from the Dragonmarked book. I would rather choose one of them over dragonmark heir simply because they offer more than dragonmarks in place of class features. Forced into a choice between Dragonmark Heir and Heir of Syberis I would take HoS almost every time simply because it is a 3 level class. The losses taken by becoming an HoS are far, far less than the standard DH. HoS wins out over DH based on opportunity costs. It isn't what you gain by taking one or the other, but what you lose that makes up my mind on this matter.
Wizardman 05-15-07, 03:26 AM	If I were playing a character in a campaign that I knew would reach the higher levels, I'd definitely go for the HoS. Otherwise, I'd go for the DMH.