Drow? [Archive] - Wizards Community - Pages Merged by Solauren

Drow? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
DarthVicious074
07-03-07, 03:12 PM I'm new to Eberron, so I'm curious to know;

Do Drow exist in Eberron?
ArcTan
07-03-07, 03:45 PM I'm new to Eberron, so I'm curious to know;

Do Drow exist in Eberron?

Yes.

The flavor is more "various tribes and nations of mutant Elves out in the wilderness", though, *not* the flavor about the spider-goddess Lolth and all.

Drow are presented as those Elves who sided with the Giants in the Giant-Elf war and submitted themselves to be magically modified by the Giants to make them effective assassins against their former brethren.

Now their descendants live in the blasted, bizarre lost continent of Xen'drik. Most of them have reverted to savagery, living as nocturnal predators as scattered tribes who worship the Scorpion God Vulkoor, but others include the Umbragen, Drow who live deep in Khyber (the Underdark) and are masters of Shadow Magic, and the Sulatar, a secretive Drow nation who practice firebinding (the binding of fire elementals) and have maintained the tyrannical government and magical traditions of their former Giant masters.
OgreBane99
07-03-07, 03:56 PM Do Drow exist in Eberron?

Yes they do. And they're even more awesome in Eberron than FR and GH. Yes, yes. I know. I had a hard time believing it the first time too.

Drow are presented as those Elves who sided with the Giants in the Giant-Elf war and submitted themselves to be magically modified by the Giants to make them effective assassins against their former brethren.

Really? I don't remember this. Where's this from? Secrets of Xen'drik I'm thinking.... Don't have that book.
Edymnion
07-03-07, 11:13 PM I think it was Explorer's Handbook, actually.
Might even have been the ECS, it was one of the early books though.
mhacdebhandia
07-03-07, 11:29 PM It's not mentioned in either the Eberron Campaign Setting nor the Explorer's Handbook, that I can find.

I suspect, actually, that it might have first been mentioned in Keith's article on the Umbragen drow in Dragon.
DragoonDarkfire
07-04-07, 12:04 AM It's in SoX. I know, I looked.
mhacdebhandia
07-04-07, 12:13 AM Ahh, there you go. I don't have Secrets of Xen'drik to hand.

I bet that, if it's not in the Umbragen article, it was first mentioned on these forums by Keith.
Thomar_of_Uointer
07-04-07, 01:18 AM The flavor is more "various tribes and nations of mutant Elves out in the wilderness", though, *not* the flavor about the spider-goddess Lolth and all.

But don't they have a scorpion-fetish?
The White Sorcerer
07-04-07, 04:15 AM But don't they have a scorpion-fetish?

Some do. Drow are far from a monolithic culture.
Teron Gorefiend
07-04-07, 04:52 AM But don't they have a scorpion-fetish?
A lot of the more primitive tribes do, though I personally think this was played up far too much (to appeal to Lolth fanboys, presumably) in Races of Eberron which, coming as early as it did, defined the drow permanently (and they shouldn't even have been in the book - goblinoids deserved that space). Scorrows, in particular, are a clumsy twist on other settings' driders that doesn't belong at all. Keith Baker's novel The Gates of Night paints a much more interesting portrait of tribal ("Qaltiar") drow religion that treats scorpions as merely the foremost among a number of revered totem creatures including birds, snakes and displacer beasts. In any case, one of their defining characteristics is that they bleach patterns into their skin with acidic giant scorpion venom.

As I said, that's just the primitive tribes - the Qaltiar "savages". The Sulatar are an obsessive fire/Fernia cult, presumably created by the giants long ago to keep their pet wizards in line. They live in obsidian citadels, are experts in fire magic, and tattoo themselves with flame patterns. The Umbragen (described in a single Dragon article by Keith Baker) are far removed from other drow, living in Khyber where they worship a mystical force called the Umbra and give their souls to it in exchange for darkness-themed magical power with which to fight the aberrations that constantly threaten them. Since they left the surface when the dragons scoured Xen'drik, they don't really consider going back, no matter how miserable life gets. Besides those, the drow are supposed to be heterogenous enough that a DM can easily insert whatever culture he cares to invent anywhere in Xen'drik.

I've meandered away from my original point a bit, and maybe you can tell that Eberron drow are a bit of an issue for me. The way Keith Baker presents them is a huge breath of fresh air and quite fascinating, but other writers have an annoying and, I think, damaging tendency to try to turn them into a close variant of the Forgotten Realms' dark elves. Honestly, I hold the Dreaming Dark trilogy as the best source of drow fluff.
mhacdebhandia
07-04-07, 08:59 PM I think the real problem with Races of Eberron's approach to the drow is that it tried to include both driders and scorrow. There's nothing wrong with scorrow as far as I'm concerned - they're not particularly interesting, but not everything can jazz every player - but including both scorrow and driders was silly.
ArcTan
07-05-07, 09:17 PM A lot of the more primitive tribes do, though I personally think this was played up far too much (to appeal to Lolth fanboys, presumably) in Races of Eberron which, coming as early as it did, defined the drow permanently (and they shouldn't even have been in the book - goblinoids deserved that space). Scorrows, in particular, are a clumsy twist on other settings' driders that doesn't belong at all.

I'll point out that Scorrow also exist in other texts, and Keith mentions them himself in Secrets of Xen'drik. They're like Driders mechanically (and physically) but don't hold the same cultural place at all.

Keith Baker's novel The Gates of Night paints a much more interesting portrait of tribal ("Qaltiar") drow religion that treats scorpions as merely the foremost among a number of revered totem creatures including birds, snakes and displacer beasts. In any case, one of their defining characteristics is that they bleach patterns into their skin with acidic giant scorpion venom.

The predominant "savage" Drow culture has Vulkoor the Scorpion God as its common unifying element, and he's interpreted as akin to the Mockery by many Khorvarian students of Drow culture (and, presumably, by many Drow who have contact with Khorvairians). Keith's view on cultural syncretism means that a lot of the cool stuff associated with the Mockery -- like Flensing Strike and the whole flaying-torture and so forth -- is probably prominent on Drow culture, giving rise to this syncretism.

As I said, that's just the primitive tribes - the Qaltiar "savages". The Sulatar are an obsessive fire/Fernia cult, presumably created by the giants long ago to keep their pet wizards in line. They live in obsidian citadels, are experts in fire magic, and tattoo themselves with flame patterns.

Note that they're not particularly loyal to the Giants anymore (given that most Giants have become debased, savage versions of what their race once was). Indeed, a lot of Sulatar scenarios involve them raiding and pillaging primitive Giant villages for ancient relics they hold but no longer understand.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DarthVicious074 07-03-07, 03:12 PM	I'm new to Eberron, so I'm curious to know; Do Drow exist in Eberron?
ArcTan 07-03-07, 03:45 PM	I'm new to Eberron, so I'm curious to know; Do Drow exist in Eberron? Yes. The flavor is more "various tribes and nations of mutant Elves out in the wilderness", though, not the flavor about the spider-goddess Lolth and all. Drow are presented as those Elves who sided with the Giants in the Giant-Elf war and submitted themselves to be magically modified by the Giants to make them effective assassins against their former brethren. Now their descendants live in the blasted, bizarre lost continent of Xen'drik. Most of them have reverted to savagery, living as nocturnal predators as scattered tribes who worship the Scorpion God Vulkoor, but others include the Umbragen, Drow who live deep in Khyber (the Underdark) and are masters of Shadow Magic, and the Sulatar, a secretive Drow nation who practice firebinding (the binding of fire elementals) and have maintained the tyrannical government and magical traditions of their former Giant masters.
OgreBane99 07-03-07, 03:56 PM	Do Drow exist in Eberron? Yes they do. And they're even more awesome in Eberron than FR and GH. Yes, yes. I know. I had a hard time believing it the first time too. Drow are presented as those Elves who sided with the Giants in the Giant-Elf war and submitted themselves to be magically modified by the Giants to make them effective assassins against their former brethren. Really? I don't remember this. Where's this from? Secrets of Xen'drik I'm thinking.... Don't have that book.
Edymnion 07-03-07, 11:13 PM	I think it was Explorer's Handbook, actually. Might even have been the ECS, it was one of the early books though.
mhacdebhandia 07-03-07, 11:29 PM	It's not mentioned in either the Eberron Campaign Setting nor the Explorer's Handbook, that I can find. I suspect, actually, that it might have first been mentioned in Keith's article on the Umbragen drow in Dragon.
DragoonDarkfire 07-04-07, 12:04 AM	It's in SoX. I know, I looked.
mhacdebhandia 07-04-07, 12:13 AM	Ahh, there you go. I don't have Secrets of Xen'drik to hand. I bet that, if it's not in the Umbragen article, it was first mentioned on these forums by Keith.
Thomar_of_Uointer 07-04-07, 01:18 AM	The flavor is more "various tribes and nations of mutant Elves out in the wilderness", though, not the flavor about the spider-goddess Lolth and all. But don't they have a scorpion-fetish?
The White Sorcerer 07-04-07, 04:15 AM	But don't they have a scorpion-fetish? Some do. Drow are far from a monolithic culture.
Teron Gorefiend 07-04-07, 04:52 AM	But don't they have a scorpion-fetish? A lot of the more primitive tribes do, though I personally think this was played up far too much (to appeal to Lolth fanboys, presumably) in Races of Eberron which, coming as early as it did, defined the drow permanently (and they shouldn't even have been in the book - goblinoids deserved that space). Scorrows, in particular, are a clumsy twist on other settings' driders that doesn't belong at all. Keith Baker's novel The Gates of Night paints a much more interesting portrait of tribal ("Qaltiar") drow religion that treats scorpions as merely the foremost among a number of revered totem creatures including birds, snakes and displacer beasts. In any case, one of their defining characteristics is that they bleach patterns into their skin with acidic giant scorpion venom. As I said, that's just the primitive tribes - the Qaltiar "savages". The Sulatar are an obsessive fire/Fernia cult, presumably created by the giants long ago to keep their pet wizards in line. They live in obsidian citadels, are experts in fire magic, and tattoo themselves with flame patterns. The Umbragen (described in a single Dragon article by Keith Baker) are far removed from other drow, living in Khyber where they worship a mystical force called the Umbra and give their souls to it in exchange for darkness-themed magical power with which to fight the aberrations that constantly threaten them. Since they left the surface when the dragons scoured Xen'drik, they don't really consider going back, no matter how miserable life gets. Besides those, the drow are supposed to be heterogenous enough that a DM can easily insert whatever culture he cares to invent anywhere in Xen'drik. I've meandered away from my original point a bit, and maybe you can tell that Eberron drow are a bit of an issue for me. The way Keith Baker presents them is a huge breath of fresh air and quite fascinating, but other writers have an annoying and, I think, damaging tendency to try to turn them into a close variant of the Forgotten Realms' dark elves. Honestly, I hold the Dreaming Dark trilogy as the best source of drow fluff.
mhacdebhandia 07-04-07, 08:59 PM	I think the real problem with Races of Eberron's approach to the drow is that it tried to include both driders and scorrow. There's nothing wrong with scorrow as far as I'm concerned - they're not particularly interesting, but not everything can jazz every player - but including both scorrow and driders was silly.
ArcTan 07-05-07, 09:17 PM	A lot of the more primitive tribes do, though I personally think this was played up far too much (to appeal to Lolth fanboys, presumably) in Races of Eberron which, coming as early as it did, defined the drow permanently (and they shouldn't even have been in the book - goblinoids deserved that space). Scorrows, in particular, are a clumsy twist on other settings' driders that doesn't belong at all. I'll point out that Scorrow also exist in other texts, and Keith mentions them himself in Secrets of Xen'drik. They're like Driders mechanically (and physically) but don't hold the same cultural place at all. Keith Baker's novel The Gates of Night paints a much more interesting portrait of tribal ("Qaltiar") drow religion that treats scorpions as merely the foremost among a number of revered totem creatures including birds, snakes and displacer beasts. In any case, one of their defining characteristics is that they bleach patterns into their skin with acidic giant scorpion venom. The predominant "savage" Drow culture has Vulkoor the Scorpion God as its common unifying element, and he's interpreted as akin to the Mockery by many Khorvarian students of Drow culture (and, presumably, by many Drow who have contact with Khorvairians). Keith's view on cultural syncretism means that a lot of the cool stuff associated with the Mockery -- like Flensing Strike and the whole flaying-torture and so forth -- is probably prominent on Drow culture, giving rise to this syncretism. As I said, that's just the primitive tribes - the Qaltiar "savages". The Sulatar are an obsessive fire/Fernia cult, presumably created by the giants long ago to keep their pet wizards in line. They live in obsidian citadels, are experts in fire magic, and tattoo themselves with flame patterns. Note that they're not particularly loyal to the Giants anymore (given that most Giants have become debased, savage versions of what their race once was). Indeed, a lot of Sulatar scenarios involve them raiding and pillaging primitive Giant villages for ancient relics they hold but no longer understand.