Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DM_Dracophile 06-02-07, 11:15 PM	I've found very little on how these dwarves fit in with Eberron, and am curious if anything definitive has ever been published. Thanks
tallric_kruush 06-02-07, 11:46 PM	Nothing "definitive" has been written, as they weren't originally part of the Eberron setting. (I tried to be careful how I phrased that, as I have no intention of starting a "canon debate"). That said, the Player's Guide to Eberron makes some suggestions on where and how the duergar might fit, should you choose to add them to your Eberron.
shadyspace 06-03-07, 12:24 AM	The only other reference I can remember off the top of my head to the Duergar is in the Secrets of Salrlona. Specifically, they once worked with the Redrians to design the Monoliths that control dreams of Redrians until the Inspired understood the Blue prints well enough to do it themselves. They then set about exterminating as many Duergar as they could over the course of a single night and chased the rest into the Frozen Tundra in the North or underground. Have to get back to this after I get a chance to confirm it all.
tallric_kruush 06-03-07, 12:51 AM	Shadyspace is correct. I'd forgotten about SoS. In that publication, the duergar are given the backstory Shady recounted above. Additionally, they now dwell in peace among their dwarf brethren in the frozen tundra of the north.
Edymnion 06-03-07, 06:50 PM	I believe they were also stated (somewhere) as being in the Mror Holds in the undermountain. Which is the only way I'd allow them into my games, as a magically twisted offshoot of the main race that was intentionally changed, and is not available as a PC race. Like the Drow.
tallric_kruush 06-03-07, 06:55 PM	I believe they were also stated (somewhere) as being in the Mror Holds in the undermountain. Player's Guide to Eberron page 54 Which is the only way I'd allow them into my games, as a magically twisted offshoot of the main race that was intentionally changed, and is not available as a PC race. Agreed...and maybe not even then... Like the Drow. Even in a Xen'drik campaign?? As long as the race exists in my setting, I'll let a player with a good backstory play it.
Edymnion 06-03-07, 07:51 PM	Even in a Xen'drik campaign?? As long as the race exists in my setting, I'll let a player with a good backstory play it.Would have to be one hell of a backstory, considering the xenophobia and outright hatred the Drow have of outsiders. Honestly, I think that even the way Keith shoehorned Xu into the party in his books was fairly weak. I wouldn't have allowed it as a character background in my game. "Yeah, I'm the last of my tribe, and the gods told me I had to adventure with you guys. And look, the gods gave me this kick ass artifact weapon as proof, its in my backstory, see?" Yeah...
davethebrave371 06-04-07, 01:38 PM	Would have to be one hell of a backstory, considering the xenophobia and outright hatred the Drow have of outsiders. Honestly, I think that even the way Keith shoehorned Xu into the party in his books was fairly weak. I wouldn't have allowed it as a character background in my game. "Yeah, I'm the last of my tribe, and the gods told me I had to adventure with you guys. And look, the gods gave me this kick ass artifact weapon as proof, its in my backstory, see?" Yeah... 1) It's a novel. Also, at around 7-8th level character wealth (I think that's what level they were, but I can't be sure) that weapon is entirely plausible. I don't think it's an artifact at all, I just think it has a (likely) +2 special quality on it and happens to be considered a holy weapon of the Traveller. It's not over powered. 2) While I cede the point that Xu's tribe in particular was fairly xenophobic, and most of the ones portrayed have been, Xen'drik is a big place. I'm sure that among all the myriad tribes, large and small, there is at least one that isn't xenophobic. I should mention that the Sulatar weren't xenophobic when they let the gnomes in (who then stole their secrets and ran off), but have become that way since. I'm sure there are plenty more tribes that still have yet to have contact, and given favourable encounters with outsiders might become more agreeable to outsiders than most of the Aerenei and Valenar (and characters of those types of elves are hardly uncommon). That being said, none of my characters have expressed interest in playing a drow as anything more than a "third or fourth choice, you know, if the character I'm playing now dies." If they wanted to, though, I'd allow it if their backstory was good enough, and "good enough" for me would be that they come from a tiny tribe which has hatred for maybe giants and Aerenal/Valenar elves (and the latter two only from oral histories) at most, and no encounters with other races. Their tribe need not even be wiped out. They could be a curious or wanderlusty member of their tribe. That's acceptable to me. I've seen worse in proposals for Valenar characters (which I've rejected).
Edymnion 06-04-07, 01:44 PM	I've seen worse in proposals for Valenar characters (which I've rejected).Heh, how many scimitars did they have? :D
tallric_kruush 06-04-07, 02:16 PM	1) It's a novel. Also, at around 7-8th level character wealth (I think that's what level they were, but I can't be sure) that weapon is entirely plausible. I don't think it's an artifact at all, I just think it has a (likely) +2 special quality on it and happens to be considered a holy weapon of the Traveller. It's not over powered. This I'm not sure about. One minute the weapon's a pair of longknives, then it's a scorpion chain, then it's a bonewheel/boomerang, now it's a double-bladed polearm. That goes beyond even the bounds of the "morphing" ability, if I'm not mistaken. As she contemplates her options before attacking the ogre mage & co., she goes through a mental list of half a dozen weapons into which the Tooth might shape itself. Also, I think I recall it displaying several different enhancements. I'm not entirely sure, and have no desire to look through the book right now. If I recall correctly, though, it at the very least shows itself to be (at times) venomous. I thought it displayed at least one other trait, and it seemed she was about to wreathe it in flame toward the end of one fight. Lastly, though the story doesn't explicitly say, it is at least possible that the Traveller himself handed Xu the weapon!! If this is a +2 weapon, I'm buying 5 of them. That way, my whole party's prepared for any conceivable combat situation or need. 2) While I cede the point that Xu's tribe in particular was fairly xenophobic, and most of the ones portrayed have been, Xen'drik is a big place. I'm sure that among all the myriad tribes, large and small, there is at least one that isn't xenophobic. This I can agree with, more or less. I'd probably phrase it as "only mildly xenophobic", rather than "not" xenophobic. I played a drow Druid//Swordsage from such a tribe in one of our games. EDIT: We've definitely moved a little off the "duergar" topic. Sorry, guys.
davethebrave371 06-04-07, 07:24 PM	Heh, how many scimitars did they have? :D God, like thirty.
yrogerg 06-04-07, 08:31 PM	Would have to be one hell of a backstory, considering the xenophobia and outright hatred the Drow have of outsiders. Meh, it's not that tough. I've played a xenophobic Poison Dusk Lizardfolk whose hatred of smooth-skins was trumped only by the higher calling he was serving (the primitive, shamanistic interpretation of a small corner of the Prophesy) by travelling to Sharn and allying with the party. Of course, that didn't stop him from relishing any opportunity to slay humanoids by the dozen a bit too much. A drow could have a similar backstory. Or he could be held captive by a corrupt explorer with an eye towards selling "local fauna" on the black market, and after escaping, he devotes his life to wiping out the sorts who would have that level of disregard for sentient beings. Just for example. ---- On the topic of Deugar, I really like the Daelkyr possibility proposed by the PGtE (among others): In particular, in my Eberron, the Deugar were a clan of Dwarves who took it upon themselves to guard a sealed gate deep in Kyber. Over the years, the nobility of this clan has fallen, and while they do remember their initial vow, they have forgotten much of their heritage, and have come to view the Daelkyr as every bit as much their gaolers as their prisoners at this point. Over the generations, they have suffered continual corruption from the horrors of Xoriat, and over the years, their loathing of the Daelkyr has simply grown... even as the Deugar have begun to adopt some of their same tactics and draw upon some of their power. Personally, this flavor to the Deugar always seemed to provide a much more interesting basis for the Impure Prince than associating them with the Gatekeepers. Now, if only I could re-write the PrC to fit the Deugar's flavor a bit better...
Edymnion 06-04-07, 09:17 PM	This gives me an idea, but I don't want to drag this one any more off topic, so I'll go start a new one.