Ebberon Minotaurs? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Ebberon Minotaurs? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Games_R_life
04-09-07, 06:25 PM I'm sorry if I missed someting, but I haven't been able to find this, so I'll have to ask:

What are Minotaurs in Ebberon; stupid Brutes like in the Forgotten Realms? or brilliant conquerors as in Dragonlance? Or a mix of the two?

I just can't seem to find this info anywhere, (I'm still working my way into DnD, I'veonly read the novels untila few monthes ago) so if you can help me out that would be great!! :)
korcheck
04-09-07, 06:38 PM I'm sorry if I missed someting, but I haven't been able to find this, so I'll have to ask:

What are Minotaurs in Ebberon; stupid Brutes like in the Forgotten Realms? or brilliant conquerors as in Dragonlance? Or a mix of the two?

I just can't seem to find this info anywhere, (I'm still working my way into DnD, I'veonly read the novels untila few monthes ago) so if you can help me out that would be great!! :)

good question, I believe that if you read the ECS they are talked about in the section about the monster nation (forget the name right now.)
ratslinky
04-09-07, 06:39 PM There isn't a lot of information on minotaurs in Eberron but I think they are pretty much just stupid brutes. Of course since there is nothing to say they are stupid or brilliant you could make them whatever you want.
korcheck
04-09-07, 06:42 PM There isn't a lot of information on minotaurs in Eberron but I think they are pretty much just stupid brutes. Of course since there is nothing to say they are stupid or brilliant you could make them whatever you want.

True if correct I might make them something like the LT's in the hags armies maybe?
Kinger
04-09-07, 07:06 PM Minotaur stats are those listed in the Monster Manual. They aren't the smaller (as-in Medium-sized), more intelligent, civilized creatures of Dragonlance.

Having said that, there's still plenty of room in a civilized world for a really big, really strong, smarter-than-a-wildebeast creature. Sure, the guards of Wroat may ask you to leave (while quivering at the knees) but the industries of the Cogs, the mercenary groups of House Tharashk (Deneith likes to stick to humanoids), and the armies of Droaam would love to have you.

I've always pictured the Hags to have Minotaur champions. Stronger than an ogre, plus feral instincts. How can you go wrong?
BlackTiger
04-09-07, 08:32 PM Yup. They are lumped in with Droaam, more or less.

In my game I have a minotaur rogue PC. He's all swashbuckler-ey and used to be an airship pirate (along with a wererat who was the brains of the operation. Go figure.)

I also have a few NPCs later on who are very much the minotaur 'champions' you alluded to.
UnderworldLord
04-09-07, 08:40 PM I like the idea of minotaurs being champions in Droaam. But then again, I just like minotaurs :D .
Games_R_life
04-09-07, 08:55 PM So do they work as PC's? I mean in Ebberon, from what I've read Kobolds seem more intelligent than normal... so can a minotaur be playable?
crashbangboom
04-09-07, 09:10 PM I don't see why not just make sure to figure in the effective character level for a minotaur and go from there
UnderworldLord
04-09-07, 09:18 PM ECL 8 is plenty playable. Just a bit high. Same with ogres and ECL 6.
BlackTiger
04-09-07, 11:13 PM i allowed the player in my game to use the Savage Species breakdown. 6 levels in minotaur capped by one in rogue. He'll have to finish those two levels of minotaur first, but then he can level normally.
JulesCARV
04-10-07, 12:22 AM Well, as per the monster manual, they do have -4 intelligence. They're generally not too bright, but one must bear in mind that that still leaves room for minotaurs who have 14 intelligence without leveling up or getting any sort of bonus. That's not genius level, but that's smarter than most of us, and implies a rather impressive fluency in three languages (giant and two others).
Evilmonster
04-10-07, 01:01 AM I just like the image of them as playable types. I'm going to integrate some more in line with the ones from Dragon Lance and take a page from WoW and call them Taurn. Taurn are to Minotaur as Human are to Ogre.

I'm really thinking of making them native to the Principalities and natural sailors.
Neutronium_Dragon
04-10-07, 09:52 AM They're relatively dim brutes, but unlike the generic setting, they're dim brutes who actually try to live lives rather than just sitting in a maze or a cave waiting for someone to come to kill them and steal their loot. While you're not likely to see them in positions which require enormous intellectual or social capacity, they're still able to operate in normal society to a reasonable extent (various Eberron books have mentioned this).

They may have trouble in the less tolerant areas (particularly since they're almost certainly foreigners in those areas), but as long as they're behaving in something resembling a civilized manner they should be able to get along.
UnderworldLord
04-10-07, 11:07 AM Tauren. WoW calls them Tauren (ie Tauric men if you caught that). And please, its cheesy enough that they turned into playables. Tauren in WC3 were the capstone of ground troopers for the Orcs Horde. Why can't people just leave minotaurs where they are? They are playable, I've done it. Its not like they're underpowered or something.
shadowpavement
04-10-07, 11:16 AM Somehwere on the dragonlance website they have the Minataur racial stats up that you can see. They are a LA +0 race and would work great in Eberron with a little tweeking to racial skill bonuses and languages.

Can't seem to find the site since work has its nazi filter on, but it's there if you can search for it.
Edymnion
04-10-07, 12:57 PM Tauren. WoW calls them Tauren (ie Tauric men if you caught that). And please, its cheesy enough that they turned into playables. Tauren in WC3 were the capstone of ground troopers for the Orcs Horde. Why can't people just leave minotaurs where they are? They are playable, I've done it. Its not like they're underpowered or something.Well, probably because the WoW RPG is a totally differant game from D&D, and they wanted to make their own creatures to represent whats in their games, instead of copying the D&D monster.

Anyway.

There is actually a female Minotaur in Keith's first Dreamin Dark book, living in Sharn. It was in the mainly mostrous population in a section of the slums, and didn't really raise too many eyebrows. It was guarding the home of a rather important NPC, and the party had to fight it to get by, but their reaction to it was more of a "Ah crap, whats a minotaur doing here?" than it was "Oh crap, what is that thing?".
korcheck
04-10-07, 02:00 PM Well, probably because the WoW RPG is a totally differant game from D&D, and they wanted to make their own creatures to represent whats in their games, instead of copying the D&D monster.

Anyway.

There is actually a female Minotaur in Keith's first Dreamin Dark book, living in Sharn. It was in the mainly mostrous population in a section of the slums, and didn't really raise too many eyebrows. It was guarding the home of a rather important NPC, and the party had to fight it to get by, but their reaction to it was more of a "Ah crap, whats a minotaur doing here?" than it was "Oh crap, what is that thing?".

that actually wasn't a minotaur but the sphinx in disguise.
Wymarc
04-10-07, 03:36 PM that actually wasn't a minotaur but the sphinx in disguise.

maybe I just missed it, but I don't remember that....
Fabius Maximus
04-10-07, 06:50 PM Me neither. The sphinx just 'hired' locals from Malleon's Gate to create a test for Daine & co.

By the way, the minotaur was a male. It was replaced by a female ogre later.
UnderworldLord
04-10-07, 07:56 PM Well, probably because the WoW RPG is a totally differant game from D&D, and they wanted to make their own creatures to represent whats in their games, instead of copying the D&D monster.

I only referenced that they were cheesey in comparison to Warcraft 3. Same universe as as WoW. The "why must people fool with it" was aimed at the person who wanted the qausi-minotaur things. Its like the quasi-medusa thing on the boards. Granted, its cool and all, but if I want to play a medusa, I'll take the LA and HD and roll with it. Not homebrew up something thats half as good for have the ECL.
Romulus LoneWolf
04-10-07, 08:41 PM Somehwere on the dragonlance website they have the Minataur racial stats up that you can see. They are a LA +0 race and would work great in Eberron with a little tweeking to racial skill bonuses and languages.

Can't seem to find the site since work has its nazi filter on, but it's there if you can search for it.

I can't seem to find the Dragonlance site to begin with. Does anyone have a link?
shadowpavement
04-11-07, 07:46 AM Finally found the site.

http://ww2.wizards.com/Books/Wizards...l_minotaurrace
Games_R_life
04-11-07, 05:01 PM Thanks everyone! I'll have to try it! :D
Edymnion
04-11-07, 05:30 PM By the way, the minotaur was a male. It was replaced by a female ogre later.No, it was female. Lei makes a mental comment about it while fighting her. From the looks of it, Flamewind seems to only hire female guards for some reason. At least, of the two guards we saw her use, both of which are traditionally portraited as male, both of hers were female.

I highly doubt that was a coincidence.
korcheck
04-11-07, 05:37 PM No, it was female. Lei makes a mental comment about it while fighting her. From the looks of it, Flamewind seems to only hire female guards for some reason. At least, of the two guards we saw her use, both of which are traditionally portraited as male, both of hers were female.

I highly doubt that was a coincidence.

which was inferred by flamewind to Lei. As I said she was both in disguise/morphed
Romulus LoneWolf
04-11-07, 11:49 PM Finally found the site.

http://ww2.wizards.com/Books/Wizards...l_minotaurrace

I keep getting "Bad Request" when I click the link...
Evilmonster
04-12-07, 02:40 AM I only referenced that they were cheesey in comparison to Warcraft 3. Same universe as as WoW. The "why must people fool with it" was aimed at the person who wanted the qausi-minotaur things. Its like the quasi-medusa thing on the boards. Granted, its cool and all, but if I want to play a medusa, I'll take the LA and HD and roll with it. Not homebrew up something thats half as good for have the ECL.

Well, because I really don't care for them? Is that a good enough reason? Plus I just like the ones from DL.
Nived
04-12-07, 04:13 AM I was just about to go to sleep. I was just pulling the covers up when an idea hit me that I had to some here to post before I forget.

House Orien.

Minotaurs never get lost, they can't, they have an extrodinary ability that prevents them from becoming lost. That seems like something that a Courier's Guild would be interested in.

Imagine it, in the depths of Sharn House O having a presence, but instead of marked humans, Minotaurs navagating the vast network of the undercity making sure payrolls, supplies, and just mail maike it to their destination. The cogs gotta keep supplied somehow.

Now there's no great history of it and it'd be pretty localized... you wouldn't find a Mino Courier in Flamekeep. However it might give House O a reason and a way into Droaam politics.

Just a thought.

Also I just picked up and glanced through Savage Species, there is no Minotaur Monster Class write up. If I remember correctly that's because they were given a "-" (unplayable) level adjustment in 3.0... but they have a level adjustment in 3.5 which means monster progression could be made, whats more since its not already a table in Savage Species we could post such a monster level progression here.

I'm going to bed now but maybe if I have time in the next couple days I'll pound that out and post it.
Sereno
04-12-07, 09:07 AM House Orien.

Minotaurs never get lost, they can't, they have an extrodinary ability that prevents them from becoming lost. That seems like something that a Courier's Guild would be interested in.

Imagine it, in the depths of Sharn House O having a presence, but instead of marked humans, Minotaurs navagating the vast network of the undercity making sure payrolls, supplies, and just mail maike it to their destination. The cogs gotta keep supplied somehow.

Now there's no great history of it and it'd be pretty localized... you wouldn't find a Mino Courier in Flamekeep. However it might give House O a reason and a way into Droaam politics.

Just a thought.

Great idea! I'm going to have to remember this one.

It makes perfect sense, too. Big and strong, they aren't likely to be hassled by the typical denizens of the deeper layers of Sharn. Add to that the fact that they cannot get lost and they're *perfect* couriers for the Cogs and other "undercity" locations!
AntiSean
04-12-07, 09:21 AM House Orien.

Minotaurs never get lost, they can't, they have an extrodinary ability that prevents them from becoming lost. That seems like something that a Courier's Guild would be interested in.
.

Ooh, I like it. Doesn't House Tharashk already run a gargoyle courier service in Sharn that competes with Orien? (I seem to remember needling the Orien scion in my party by having every important message delivered to him via gargoyle instead of by someone from his house :) ) If that's the case, given Tharashk's connection with Droaam, I'd be tempted to connect the minotaurs to them instead.

Of course, it might be more fun to have Droaam playing both houses against each other for a while; the motives of the Daughters of Sora Kell are inscrutable at best.
UnderworldLord
04-12-07, 10:24 AM Page 27-28 of the Savage Species has the minotaur. Table is on 28.
UnderworldLord
04-12-07, 10:46 AM Well, because I really don't care for them? Is that a good enough reason? Plus I just like the ones from DL.

You have your reasons, I respect that. But I can't see doing anything more than making slight modifications at best. That mod would probably lower Natural armor and lower int penalty, probably heighten the charisma penalty. I just can't imagine a minotaur (beyond the Warcraft universe) being as charismatic as a dwarf.

As far as the minotaurs in DL, I've read a book or two, and I like them well enough. But I don't see how they'd have come about in Droaam, where power is in the hands of Medusas and Hags, and the law is enforced by Gnolls and Hill Giants.
Nived
04-12-07, 12:03 PM Page 27-28 of the Savage Species has the minotaur. Table is on 28.

Alas you're correct, I was mistaken because I thought it'd be in appendix one with the rest of the monster class levels instead of the example monster in Chapter 3.

Good eye.
Fabius Maximus
04-12-07, 07:27 PM No, it was female. Lei makes a mental comment about it while fighting her. From the looks of it, Flamewind seems to only hire female guards for some reason. At least, of the two guards we saw her use, both of which are traditionally portraited as male, both of hers were female.

I highly doubt that was a coincidence.

I may sound like a smartass, but:

She hadn't hurt the minotaur, but she had weakened him, and he was acting with more caution.
korcheck
04-12-07, 08:20 PM I may sound like a smartass, but:

Nah not a smart ass you just did what none of us wanted to do and looked at the book lol. But, he,she,it I still say it was sphinx in disguise.
Nived
04-16-07, 11:21 AM You know, reading the monsterous level progression on the Minotaur in Savage Species and this thread has me actually wanting to play one should the opportunity ever arise. While it is an ECL 8 I don't think it suffers as much as some other monsterous progressions. 6 HD with full BAB progression and two good saves make it a far better option that many monster types. The hit to int is tough but not insurmountable. I foresee only two things that would come under contention.

Whether the Mino's Powerful Charge extrodinary ability would stack with the Powerful Charge feat from the Eberron Campaign Setting, (while they share the same name the mechanics are different).

The other could be a character breaker. In Savage Species, what could be an 3e artifact (I can't find my 3E Monter Manual) Mino's in that progression are proficient with light and medium armor while the entry in the 3.5 Monster Manual makes no mention of any armor proficiency whatsoever. A LA character generally hurts for HP and while the Mino's con bonus would eventually make up the descrepancy... there's not a lot of chance he'll sirvive that long without armor.

Still a think a mino with improved natural weapon, powerful charge, improved powerful charge and the like would be a heck of a lot of fun.... especially with a necklace of natual weapon.... because Shocking Burst horns would be awesome.
UnderworldLord
04-16-07, 12:13 PM I would say change his extraordinary ability to a bonus feat. As far as the armor goes, remember they do at least have some natural armor for backup. Its not full plate mail, but it works to help out.

As far as your concept goes... well, a minotaur fighter or warblade could be interesting. Also: shocking burst? I'm talking FLAMING HORNS OF DEATH!
Games_R_life
04-16-07, 10:06 PM I found while playing DDO: Storm Reach a Minotaur character you can trade music too for items, so obviously they are pretty intelligent, I thought that was cool. Can you say Minotaur Bard?

Its worth looking into to! :)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Games_R_life 04-09-07, 06:25 PM	I'm sorry if I missed someting, but I haven't been able to find this, so I'll have to ask: What are Minotaurs in Ebberon; stupid Brutes like in the Forgotten Realms? or brilliant conquerors as in Dragonlance? Or a mix of the two? I just can't seem to find this info anywhere, (I'm still working my way into DnD, I'veonly read the novels untila few monthes ago) so if you can help me out that would be great!! :)
korcheck 04-09-07, 06:38 PM	I'm sorry if I missed someting, but I haven't been able to find this, so I'll have to ask: What are Minotaurs in Ebberon; stupid Brutes like in the Forgotten Realms? or brilliant conquerors as in Dragonlance? Or a mix of the two? I just can't seem to find this info anywhere, (I'm still working my way into DnD, I'veonly read the novels untila few monthes ago) so if you can help me out that would be great!! :) good question, I believe that if you read the ECS they are talked about in the section about the monster nation (forget the name right now.)
ratslinky 04-09-07, 06:39 PM	There isn't a lot of information on minotaurs in Eberron but I think they are pretty much just stupid brutes. Of course since there is nothing to say they are stupid or brilliant you could make them whatever you want.
korcheck 04-09-07, 06:42 PM	There isn't a lot of information on minotaurs in Eberron but I think they are pretty much just stupid brutes. Of course since there is nothing to say they are stupid or brilliant you could make them whatever you want. True if correct I might make them something like the LT's in the hags armies maybe?
Kinger 04-09-07, 07:06 PM	Minotaur stats are those listed in the Monster Manual. They aren't the smaller (as-in Medium-sized), more intelligent, civilized creatures of Dragonlance. Having said that, there's still plenty of room in a civilized world for a really big, really strong, smarter-than-a-wildebeast creature. Sure, the guards of Wroat may ask you to leave (while quivering at the knees) but the industries of the Cogs, the mercenary groups of House Tharashk (Deneith likes to stick to humanoids), and the armies of Droaam would love to have you. I've always pictured the Hags to have Minotaur champions. Stronger than an ogre, plus feral instincts. How can you go wrong?
BlackTiger 04-09-07, 08:32 PM	Yup. They are lumped in with Droaam, more or less. In my game I have a minotaur rogue PC. He's all swashbuckler-ey and used to be an airship pirate (along with a wererat who was the brains of the operation. Go figure.) I also have a few NPCs later on who are very much the minotaur 'champions' you alluded to.
UnderworldLord 04-09-07, 08:40 PM	I like the idea of minotaurs being champions in Droaam. But then again, I just like minotaurs :D .
Games_R_life 04-09-07, 08:55 PM	So do they work as PC's? I mean in Ebberon, from what I've read Kobolds seem more intelligent than normal... so can a minotaur be playable?
crashbangboom 04-09-07, 09:10 PM	I don't see why not just make sure to figure in the effective character level for a minotaur and go from there
UnderworldLord 04-09-07, 09:18 PM	ECL 8 is plenty playable. Just a bit high. Same with ogres and ECL 6.
BlackTiger 04-09-07, 11:13 PM	i allowed the player in my game to use the Savage Species breakdown. 6 levels in minotaur capped by one in rogue. He'll have to finish those two levels of minotaur first, but then he can level normally.
JulesCARV 04-10-07, 12:22 AM	Well, as per the monster manual, they do have -4 intelligence. They're generally not too bright, but one must bear in mind that that still leaves room for minotaurs who have 14 intelligence without leveling up or getting any sort of bonus. That's not genius level, but that's smarter than most of us, and implies a rather impressive fluency in three languages (giant and two others).
Evilmonster 04-10-07, 01:01 AM	I just like the image of them as playable types. I'm going to integrate some more in line with the ones from Dragon Lance and take a page from WoW and call them Taurn. Taurn are to Minotaur as Human are to Ogre. I'm really thinking of making them native to the Principalities and natural sailors.
Neutronium_Dragon 04-10-07, 09:52 AM	They're relatively dim brutes, but unlike the generic setting, they're dim brutes who actually try to live lives rather than just sitting in a maze or a cave waiting for someone to come to kill them and steal their loot. While you're not likely to see them in positions which require enormous intellectual or social capacity, they're still able to operate in normal society to a reasonable extent (various Eberron books have mentioned this). They may have trouble in the less tolerant areas (particularly since they're almost certainly foreigners in those areas), but as long as they're behaving in something resembling a civilized manner they should be able to get along.
UnderworldLord 04-10-07, 11:07 AM	Tauren. WoW calls them Tauren (ie Tauric men if you caught that). And please, its cheesy enough that they turned into playables. Tauren in WC3 were the capstone of ground troopers for the Orcs Horde. Why can't people just leave minotaurs where they are? They are playable, I've done it. Its not like they're underpowered or something.
shadowpavement 04-10-07, 11:16 AM	Somehwere on the dragonlance website they have the Minataur racial stats up that you can see. They are a LA +0 race and would work great in Eberron with a little tweeking to racial skill bonuses and languages. Can't seem to find the site since work has its nazi filter on, but it's there if you can search for it.
Edymnion 04-10-07, 12:57 PM	Tauren. WoW calls them Tauren (ie Tauric men if you caught that). And please, its cheesy enough that they turned into playables. Tauren in WC3 were the capstone of ground troopers for the Orcs Horde. Why can't people just leave minotaurs where they are? They are playable, I've done it. Its not like they're underpowered or something.Well, probably because the WoW RPG is a totally differant game from D&D, and they wanted to make their own creatures to represent whats in their games, instead of copying the D&D monster. Anyway. There is actually a female Minotaur in Keith's first Dreamin Dark book, living in Sharn. It was in the mainly mostrous population in a section of the slums, and didn't really raise too many eyebrows. It was guarding the home of a rather important NPC, and the party had to fight it to get by, but their reaction to it was more of a "Ah crap, whats a minotaur doing here?" than it was "Oh crap, what is that thing?".
korcheck 04-10-07, 02:00 PM	Well, probably because the WoW RPG is a totally differant game from D&D, and they wanted to make their own creatures to represent whats in their games, instead of copying the D&D monster. Anyway. There is actually a female Minotaur in Keith's first Dreamin Dark book, living in Sharn. It was in the mainly mostrous population in a section of the slums, and didn't really raise too many eyebrows. It was guarding the home of a rather important NPC, and the party had to fight it to get by, but their reaction to it was more of a "Ah crap, whats a minotaur doing here?" than it was "Oh crap, what is that thing?". that actually wasn't a minotaur but the sphinx in disguise.
Wymarc 04-10-07, 03:36 PM	that actually wasn't a minotaur but the sphinx in disguise. maybe I just missed it, but I don't remember that....
Fabius Maximus 04-10-07, 06:50 PM	Me neither. The sphinx just 'hired' locals from Malleon's Gate to create a test for Daine & co. By the way, the minotaur was a male. It was replaced by a female ogre later.
UnderworldLord 04-10-07, 07:56 PM	Well, probably because the WoW RPG is a totally differant game from D&D, and they wanted to make their own creatures to represent whats in their games, instead of copying the D&D monster. I only referenced that they were cheesey in comparison to Warcraft 3. Same universe as as WoW. The "why must people fool with it" was aimed at the person who wanted the qausi-minotaur things. Its like the quasi-medusa thing on the boards. Granted, its cool and all, but if I want to play a medusa, I'll take the LA and HD and roll with it. Not homebrew up something thats half as good for have the ECL.
Romulus LoneWolf 04-10-07, 08:41 PM	Somehwere on the dragonlance website they have the Minataur racial stats up that you can see. They are a LA +0 race and would work great in Eberron with a little tweeking to racial skill bonuses and languages. Can't seem to find the site since work has its nazi filter on, but it's there if you can search for it. I can't seem to find the Dragonlance site to begin with. Does anyone have a link?
shadowpavement 04-11-07, 07:46 AM	Finally found the site. http://ww2.wizards.com/Books/Wizards...l_minotaurrace
Games_R_life 04-11-07, 05:01 PM	Thanks everyone! I'll have to try it! :D
Edymnion 04-11-07, 05:30 PM	By the way, the minotaur was a male. It was replaced by a female ogre later.No, it was female. Lei makes a mental comment about it while fighting her. From the looks of it, Flamewind seems to only hire female guards for some reason. At least, of the two guards we saw her use, both of which are traditionally portraited as male, both of hers were female. I highly doubt that was a coincidence.
korcheck 04-11-07, 05:37 PM	No, it was female. Lei makes a mental comment about it while fighting her. From the looks of it, Flamewind seems to only hire female guards for some reason. At least, of the two guards we saw her use, both of which are traditionally portraited as male, both of hers were female. I highly doubt that was a coincidence. which was inferred by flamewind to Lei. As I said she was both in disguise/morphed
Romulus LoneWolf 04-11-07, 11:49 PM	Finally found the site. http://ww2.wizards.com/Books/Wizards...l_minotaurrace I keep getting "Bad Request" when I click the link...
Evilmonster 04-12-07, 02:40 AM	I only referenced that they were cheesey in comparison to Warcraft 3. Same universe as as WoW. The "why must people fool with it" was aimed at the person who wanted the qausi-minotaur things. Its like the quasi-medusa thing on the boards. Granted, its cool and all, but if I want to play a medusa, I'll take the LA and HD and roll with it. Not homebrew up something thats half as good for have the ECL. Well, because I really don't care for them? Is that a good enough reason? Plus I just like the ones from DL.
Nived 04-12-07, 04:13 AM	I was just about to go to sleep. I was just pulling the covers up when an idea hit me that I had to some here to post before I forget. House Orien. Minotaurs never get lost, they can't, they have an extrodinary ability that prevents them from becoming lost. That seems like something that a Courier's Guild would be interested in. Imagine it, in the depths of Sharn House O having a presence, but instead of marked humans, Minotaurs navagating the vast network of the undercity making sure payrolls, supplies, and just mail maike it to their destination. The cogs gotta keep supplied somehow. Now there's no great history of it and it'd be pretty localized... you wouldn't find a Mino Courier in Flamekeep. However it might give House O a reason and a way into Droaam politics. Just a thought. Also I just picked up and glanced through Savage Species, there is no Minotaur Monster Class write up. If I remember correctly that's because they were given a "-" (unplayable) level adjustment in 3.0... but they have a level adjustment in 3.5 which means monster progression could be made, whats more since its not already a table in Savage Species we could post such a monster level progression here. I'm going to bed now but maybe if I have time in the next couple days I'll pound that out and post it.
Sereno 04-12-07, 09:07 AM	House Orien. Minotaurs never get lost, they can't, they have an extrodinary ability that prevents them from becoming lost. That seems like something that a Courier's Guild would be interested in. Imagine it, in the depths of Sharn House O having a presence, but instead of marked humans, Minotaurs navagating the vast network of the undercity making sure payrolls, supplies, and just mail maike it to their destination. The cogs gotta keep supplied somehow. Now there's no great history of it and it'd be pretty localized... you wouldn't find a Mino Courier in Flamekeep. However it might give House O a reason and a way into Droaam politics. Just a thought. Great idea! I'm going to have to remember this one. It makes perfect sense, too. Big and strong, they aren't likely to be hassled by the typical denizens of the deeper layers of Sharn. Add to that the fact that they cannot get lost and they're perfect couriers for the Cogs and other "undercity" locations!
AntiSean 04-12-07, 09:21 AM	House Orien. Minotaurs never get lost, they can't, they have an extrodinary ability that prevents them from becoming lost. That seems like something that a Courier's Guild would be interested in. . Ooh, I like it. Doesn't House Tharashk already run a gargoyle courier service in Sharn that competes with Orien? (I seem to remember needling the Orien scion in my party by having every important message delivered to him via gargoyle instead of by someone from his house :) ) If that's the case, given Tharashk's connection with Droaam, I'd be tempted to connect the minotaurs to them instead. Of course, it might be more fun to have Droaam playing both houses against each other for a while; the motives of the Daughters of Sora Kell are inscrutable at best.
UnderworldLord 04-12-07, 10:24 AM	Page 27-28 of the Savage Species has the minotaur. Table is on 28.
UnderworldLord 04-12-07, 10:46 AM	Well, because I really don't care for them? Is that a good enough reason? Plus I just like the ones from DL. You have your reasons, I respect that. But I can't see doing anything more than making slight modifications at best. That mod would probably lower Natural armor and lower int penalty, probably heighten the charisma penalty. I just can't imagine a minotaur (beyond the Warcraft universe) being as charismatic as a dwarf. As far as the minotaurs in DL, I've read a book or two, and I like them well enough. But I don't see how they'd have come about in Droaam, where power is in the hands of Medusas and Hags, and the law is enforced by Gnolls and Hill Giants.
Nived 04-12-07, 12:03 PM	Page 27-28 of the Savage Species has the minotaur. Table is on 28. Alas you're correct, I was mistaken because I thought it'd be in appendix one with the rest of the monster class levels instead of the example monster in Chapter 3. Good eye.
Fabius Maximus 04-12-07, 07:27 PM	No, it was female. Lei makes a mental comment about it while fighting her. From the looks of it, Flamewind seems to only hire female guards for some reason. At least, of the two guards we saw her use, both of which are traditionally portraited as male, both of hers were female. I highly doubt that was a coincidence. I may sound like a smartass, but: She hadn't hurt the minotaur, but she had weakened him, and he was acting with more caution.
korcheck 04-12-07, 08:20 PM	I may sound like a smartass, but: Nah not a smart ass you just did what none of us wanted to do and looked at the book lol. But, he,she,it I still say it was sphinx in disguise.
Nived 04-16-07, 11:21 AM	You know, reading the monsterous level progression on the Minotaur in Savage Species and this thread has me actually wanting to play one should the opportunity ever arise. While it is an ECL 8 I don't think it suffers as much as some other monsterous progressions. 6 HD with full BAB progression and two good saves make it a far better option that many monster types. The hit to int is tough but not insurmountable. I foresee only two things that would come under contention. Whether the Mino's Powerful Charge extrodinary ability would stack with the Powerful Charge feat from the Eberron Campaign Setting, (while they share the same name the mechanics are different). The other could be a character breaker. In Savage Species, what could be an 3e artifact (I can't find my 3E Monter Manual) Mino's in that progression are proficient with light and medium armor while the entry in the 3.5 Monster Manual makes no mention of any armor proficiency whatsoever. A LA character generally hurts for HP and while the Mino's con bonus would eventually make up the descrepancy... there's not a lot of chance he'll sirvive that long without armor. Still a think a mino with improved natural weapon, powerful charge, improved powerful charge and the like would be a heck of a lot of fun.... especially with a necklace of natual weapon.... because Shocking Burst horns would be awesome.
UnderworldLord 04-16-07, 12:13 PM	I would say change his extraordinary ability to a bonus feat. As far as the armor goes, remember they do at least have some natural armor for backup. Its not full plate mail, but it works to help out. As far as your concept goes... well, a minotaur fighter or warblade could be interesting. Also: shocking burst? I'm talking FLAMING HORNS OF DEATH!
Games_R_life 04-16-07, 10:06 PM	I found while playing DDO: Storm Reach a Minotaur character you can trade music too for items, so obviously they are pretty intelligent, I thought that was cool. Can you say Minotaur Bard? Its worth looking into to! :)