Evolved kalashtar? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Evolved kalashtar? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Nullifyer
02-22-07, 02:06 PM My question is this:

Suppose an Epic Psion Kalashtar captures an Elan and wants the *physical* benefits of being a Elan; can he or she wrestle this knowledge from the Elan and Psionically change his or her Body to get the Physical benefit of being an Elan and still retain his or her Kalashtar heritage?
Deekin
02-22-07, 02:59 PM Elan + Many Generations of breeding with humans = Klashatar
Subtle Knife
02-22-07, 03:32 PM Elan + Many Generations of breeding with humans = Klashatar

Not if you've read Secrets of Sarlona.

As for the original question, perhaps if you suggested a game mechanic by which you think this could occur, we could comment further? My initial thoughts tend toward "not without losing the benefits of being Kalashtar". The Players Handbook II suggests a variety of different ways in which one might retrofit their character's race, classes, feats, etc. You would need to either 1) discuss this option with your DM, or if you are the DM, 2) devise a method yourself.

SK
Nullifyer
02-23-07, 03:47 AM My thinking is this. When a character reaches Epic Levels they tend to think of their of mortality. But for a Kalashtar Psion death doesn't really have to come if they know any lore about an Elan. If they can get even a clue and start on the trail of how to *psionically change* their physical body and yet still retain the memory of who they are then that would mean imortality. Because an Elan in the books it said that they are not born but made. And the process is a secret that only Elans share among themselves and never discuss with an outsider. Well since an Epic Psion Telepath Kalashatar can pretty much rip the memories/ knowledge out of the mind out of most creatures....Voila! A new being in Eberron....someone with both the attributes of an Elan and a Kalashtar.

Not if you've read Secrets of Sarlona.

As for the original question, perhaps if you suggested a game mechanic by which you think this could occur, we could comment further? My initial thoughts tend toward "not without losing the benefits of being Kalashtar". The Players Handbook II suggests a variety of different ways in which one might retrofit their character's race, classes, feats, etc. You would need to either 1) discuss this option with your DM, or if you are the DM, 2) devise a method yourself.

SK
Edymnion
02-23-07, 12:44 PM My thinking is this. When a character reaches Epic Levels they tend to think of their of mortality. But for a Kalashtar Psion death doesn't really have to come if they know any lore about an Elan. If they can get even a clue and start on the trail of how to *psionically change* their physical body and yet still retain the memory of who they are then that would mean imortality. Because an Elan in the books it said that they are not born but made. And the process is a secret that only Elans share among themselves and never discuss with an outsider. Well since an Epic Psion Telepath Kalashatar can pretty much rip the memories/ knowledge out of the mind out of most creatures....Voila! A new being in Eberron....someone with both the attributes of an Elan and a Kalashtar.Wouldn't work, I'm afraid. The bond between individual and quori spirit that is the Kalashtar can only exist between a member of the same race and gender as the original host the quori originally took. All of which were human. If you change your race, you will break that bond.
Cifer
02-23-07, 03:53 PM I think the main point here is "epic level". Unless there's someone equally epic standing in the way, an epic character's question "Can I..?" is generally answered with "Yes, you can, if you set your mind to it."
AvonRekaes
02-24-07, 09:48 PM Well that really depends on how you use Elans in your game. Secrets of Sarlona and Player's Guide to Eberron have placed them in Eberron in such a way that there is no Elan Council.
In Eberron, an elan as an eternal prison for a quori criminal. If a quori commits hienous crimes against the Dreaming Dark, and for some reason or another can't be trusted to emerge as a normal, obedient quori after being killed and having it's energy be absorbed by the Darkness that Dreams, they are sealed forever in a host that they cannot exert any command over. Every elan in Eberron, then, has a trapped quori inside of it, and is created by the Inspired and the Dreaming Dark.

Of course, there's no reason you couldn't change it and keep the Elan's original XPH flavor. But if you use the establish Eberron history (which I personally think is awesome) with them, then it's an iffy question as to what exactly the kalashtar would BE. An immortal host to PART of one quori and a prison to another? Weirdness.

On top of that fact, even if you use the XPH flavor for Elans, you might have missed the part about EVERY newly created Elan being a 1st level character. You loose all memories of your former self, and all class levels. Should you find a way to change your Level Forty Seven Kalashtar Telepath into an Elan, he'll just be a level 1 character now.
Edymnion
02-25-07, 08:08 PM On top of that fact, even if you use the XPH flavor for Elans, you might have missed the part about EVERY newly created Elan being a 1st level character. You loose all memories of your former self, and all class levels. Should you find a way to change your Level Forty Seven Kalashtar Telepath into an Elan, he'll just be a level 1 character now.Trust me, the loophole to that was found long, long ago.
I don't recall the specifics off the top of my head, but there are rules legal ways to store your mind outside of your body, undergo the ritual to become an elan, and then re-integrate your backup brain to regain your full memories, levels, and powers.

But, this would not allow you to back up the quori bond, which would still be broken. Basically, everything that makes a Kalashtar a Kalashtar is a racial trait. Becoming an Elan means you replace all of your old racial traits with the Elan traits, and that includes the quori spirit link. Sure, you might be able to mindseed yourself to restore your levels and powers, but I'd think you'd quickly go insane because you are missing an integral part of who you are. It would be as jarring as suddenly having two minds inside of one body, only instead of confusion, it would be sudden overpowering crushing loneliness.
Edo_555
02-26-07, 11:26 AM My question is this:

Suppose an Epic Psion Kalashtar captures an Elan and wants the *physical* benefits of being a Elan; can he or she wrestle this knowledge from the Elan and Psionically change his or her Body to get the Physical benefit of being an Elan and still retain his or her Kalashtar heritage?
That wount go with path of light;)
Maybe kalashtar traitor;)
Nullifyer
02-26-07, 04:42 PM Trust me, the loophole to that was found long, long ago.
I don't recall the specifics off the top of my head, but there are rules legal ways to store your mind outside of your body, undergo the ritual to become an elan, and then re-integrate your backup brain to regain your full memories, levels, and powers.

But, this would not allow you to back up the quori bond, which would still be broken. Basically, everything that makes a Kalashtar a Kalashtar is a racial trait. Becoming an Elan means you replace all of your old racial traits with the Elan traits, and that includes the quori spirit link. Sure, you might be able to mindseed yourself to restore your levels and powers, but I'd think you'd quickly go insane because you are missing an integral part of who you are. It would be as jarring as suddenly having two minds inside of one body, only instead of confusion, it would be sudden overpowering crushing loneliness.

But Psions are used to partitioning their minds. How would they go insane when they are used to having two minds in one body? I think the power is called schism or something like that.

Regarding the Quori link. In the Eberron Campaign an Elan is just basically a human host for a Quori. That is different in a typical campaign where an Elan must undergo some sort of secret ritual where they are *Psionically Charged* to become an Elan. Now the Kalashtars already have a link with a Quori host. All that they are missing is the *secret* knowledge of how to charge their bodies to have the physical benefits of an Elan charge bodies. That is basically what my question is about. If something is a secret in the world like who killed JFK in America....in Eberron...how freaking long would it take for an Epic Level Psion Telepath to uncover the knowledge even if he or she has to rip the knowledge out of every Elan he or she finds?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Nullifyer 02-22-07, 02:06 PM	My question is this: Suppose an Epic Psion Kalashtar captures an Elan and wants the physical benefits of being a Elan; can he or she wrestle this knowledge from the Elan and Psionically change his or her Body to get the Physical benefit of being an Elan and still retain his or her Kalashtar heritage?
Deekin 02-22-07, 02:59 PM	Elan + Many Generations of breeding with humans = Klashatar
Subtle Knife 02-22-07, 03:32 PM	Elan + Many Generations of breeding with humans = Klashatar Not if you've read Secrets of Sarlona. As for the original question, perhaps if you suggested a game mechanic by which you think this could occur, we could comment further? My initial thoughts tend toward "not without losing the benefits of being Kalashtar". The Players Handbook II suggests a variety of different ways in which one might retrofit their character's race, classes, feats, etc. You would need to either 1) discuss this option with your DM, or if you are the DM, 2) devise a method yourself. SK
Nullifyer 02-23-07, 03:47 AM	My thinking is this. When a character reaches Epic Levels they tend to think of their of mortality. But for a Kalashtar Psion death doesn't really have to come if they know any lore about an Elan. If they can get even a clue and start on the trail of how to psionically change their physical body and yet still retain the memory of who they are then that would mean imortality. Because an Elan in the books it said that they are not born but made. And the process is a secret that only Elans share among themselves and never discuss with an outsider. Well since an Epic Psion Telepath Kalashatar can pretty much rip the memories/ knowledge out of the mind out of most creatures....Voila! A new being in Eberron....someone with both the attributes of an Elan and a Kalashtar. Not if you've read Secrets of Sarlona. As for the original question, perhaps if you suggested a game mechanic by which you think this could occur, we could comment further? My initial thoughts tend toward "not without losing the benefits of being Kalashtar". The Players Handbook II suggests a variety of different ways in which one might retrofit their character's race, classes, feats, etc. You would need to either 1) discuss this option with your DM, or if you are the DM, 2) devise a method yourself. SK
Edymnion 02-23-07, 12:44 PM	My thinking is this. When a character reaches Epic Levels they tend to think of their of mortality. But for a Kalashtar Psion death doesn't really have to come if they know any lore about an Elan. If they can get even a clue and start on the trail of how to psionically change their physical body and yet still retain the memory of who they are then that would mean imortality. Because an Elan in the books it said that they are not born but made. And the process is a secret that only Elans share among themselves and never discuss with an outsider. Well since an Epic Psion Telepath Kalashatar can pretty much rip the memories/ knowledge out of the mind out of most creatures....Voila! A new being in Eberron....someone with both the attributes of an Elan and a Kalashtar.Wouldn't work, I'm afraid. The bond between individual and quori spirit that is the Kalashtar can only exist between a member of the same race and gender as the original host the quori originally took. All of which were human. If you change your race, you will break that bond.
Cifer 02-23-07, 03:53 PM	I think the main point here is "epic level". Unless there's someone equally epic standing in the way, an epic character's question "Can I..?" is generally answered with "Yes, you can, if you set your mind to it."
AvonRekaes 02-24-07, 09:48 PM	Well that really depends on how you use Elans in your game. Secrets of Sarlona and Player's Guide to Eberron have placed them in Eberron in such a way that there is no Elan Council. In Eberron, an elan as an eternal prison for a quori criminal. If a quori commits hienous crimes against the Dreaming Dark, and for some reason or another can't be trusted to emerge as a normal, obedient quori after being killed and having it's energy be absorbed by the Darkness that Dreams, they are sealed forever in a host that they cannot exert any command over. Every elan in Eberron, then, has a trapped quori inside of it, and is created by the Inspired and the Dreaming Dark. Of course, there's no reason you couldn't change it and keep the Elan's original XPH flavor. But if you use the establish Eberron history (which I personally think is awesome) with them, then it's an iffy question as to what exactly the kalashtar would BE. An immortal host to PART of one quori and a prison to another? Weirdness. On top of that fact, even if you use the XPH flavor for Elans, you might have missed the part about EVERY newly created Elan being a 1st level character. You loose all memories of your former self, and all class levels. Should you find a way to change your Level Forty Seven Kalashtar Telepath into an Elan, he'll just be a level 1 character now.
Edymnion 02-25-07, 08:08 PM	On top of that fact, even if you use the XPH flavor for Elans, you might have missed the part about EVERY newly created Elan being a 1st level character. You loose all memories of your former self, and all class levels. Should you find a way to change your Level Forty Seven Kalashtar Telepath into an Elan, he'll just be a level 1 character now.Trust me, the loophole to that was found long, long ago. I don't recall the specifics off the top of my head, but there are rules legal ways to store your mind outside of your body, undergo the ritual to become an elan, and then re-integrate your backup brain to regain your full memories, levels, and powers. But, this would not allow you to back up the quori bond, which would still be broken. Basically, everything that makes a Kalashtar a Kalashtar is a racial trait. Becoming an Elan means you replace all of your old racial traits with the Elan traits, and that includes the quori spirit link. Sure, you might be able to mindseed yourself to restore your levels and powers, but I'd think you'd quickly go insane because you are missing an integral part of who you are. It would be as jarring as suddenly having two minds inside of one body, only instead of confusion, it would be sudden overpowering crushing loneliness.
Edo_555 02-26-07, 11:26 AM	My question is this: Suppose an Epic Psion Kalashtar captures an Elan and wants the physical benefits of being a Elan; can he or she wrestle this knowledge from the Elan and Psionically change his or her Body to get the Physical benefit of being an Elan and still retain his or her Kalashtar heritage? That wount go with path of light;) Maybe kalashtar traitor;)
Nullifyer 02-26-07, 04:42 PM	Trust me, the loophole to that was found long, long ago. I don't recall the specifics off the top of my head, but there are rules legal ways to store your mind outside of your body, undergo the ritual to become an elan, and then re-integrate your backup brain to regain your full memories, levels, and powers. But, this would not allow you to back up the quori bond, which would still be broken. Basically, everything that makes a Kalashtar a Kalashtar is a racial trait. Becoming an Elan means you replace all of your old racial traits with the Elan traits, and that includes the quori spirit link. Sure, you might be able to mindseed yourself to restore your levels and powers, but I'd think you'd quickly go insane because you are missing an integral part of who you are. It would be as jarring as suddenly having two minds inside of one body, only instead of confusion, it would be sudden overpowering crushing loneliness. But Psions are used to partitioning their minds. How would they go insane when they are used to having two minds in one body? I think the power is called schism or something like that. Regarding the Quori link. In the Eberron Campaign an Elan is just basically a human host for a Quori. That is different in a typical campaign where an Elan must undergo some sort of secret ritual where they are Psionically Charged to become an Elan. Now the Kalashtars already have a link with a Quori host. All that they are missing is the secret knowledge of how to charge their bodies to have the physical benefits of an Elan charge bodies. That is basically what my question is about. If something is a secret in the world like who killed JFK in America....in Eberron...how freaking long would it take for an Epic Level Psion Telepath to uncover the knowledge even if he or she has to rip the knowledge out of every Elan he or she finds?