Goblin Rogue-ificer help! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Goblin Rogue-ificer help! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Werebat
11-29-07, 07:51 PM (This seems like it should be in CO, but I figured the fine folks here may actually be more well versed in this sort of thing, so here goes...)

OK, so my next character for a new Eberron campaign (this one will be long-term, expected to run for 3 years or so) was planned to be a goblin artificer. Recent events have made me want to -- not so much change the character as alter the build somewhat. Or at least explore my options.

Mainly, it has come to my attention that no one else in the party (which will include a human cleric/sovereignspeaker and a shifter druid/moonspeaker) is playing a rogue. OK, fine, I can fill that niche as an artificer (and a goblin one at that), but I'm not sure how best to do it. Would it be worth taking a level of rogue? I don't need it to do the trapfinding thing because artificers have that ability (and its relevant skills) already, but a couple of levels for Reflex boost and evasion seem like they might be a good idea.

Anyway, any help with feats, spells, tricks, etc. that could help out a goblin artificer who is filling in for party rogue?

Here's the ground rules:

1. The campaign will be Age of Worms. I don't want to know secrets about AoW, I have avoided reading about it because I don't like to cheat. I only mention the fact because I know that undead will likely be a major enemy type, which may factor in to why no one wanted to play a rogue (and why I don't care too much about Sneak Attack for this character).

2. Books allowed: Core, all Eberron books, Spell and Magic Item Compendiums, and THAT'S IT. No Completes, no PHBII, nothing.

3. This is a BIG gaming group, 7-8 players, so no cohorts will be allowed (ie I can't just get a rogue cohort).

Here's my original build, before the lack of party rogue situation was revealed:

Goblin Artificer

1. Art1 * Heroic Spirit
2. Art2
3. Art3 * Rapid Infusion
4. Art4 * Extraordinary Artisan
5. Art5
6. Art6 * Empower Spell
7. Art7
8. Art8 * Wand Mastery
9. Art9 * Maximize Spell
10.Art10
11.Art11
12.Art12 * * Extra Rings, Wand Surge

Any suggestions to make him more effective to fill in for party rogue? I'm primarily talking trapmonkeying here, although some sneakery will be possible at the low levels (and maybe higher with magic item and spell boosts) due to the handy goblin +4 size and racial bonuses to hide and move silently, respectively (tack on to a high Dex and items like Boots and Cloak of Elve -- I mean, Goblin Sneakery :D ).

Thanks,

- Ron ^*^
Werebat
12-02-07, 07:01 PM OK, no responses... So, is there anything inherently WRONG with my build? Any obvious flaws?

We rolled characters last night and my stat block (after adjustments) is:

Str 9
Dex 16
Con 14
Int 16
Wis 9
Cha 12

This seems pretty good for an artificer. I'm going straight artificer (no rogue levels) and I chose to distribute my skill points as follows:

UMD 4 (of course)
Spellcraft 4
Search 4
Disable Device 4
K: Arcana 2
K: Planes 2
K: Architecture 4

After getting 5 ranks in K: Architecture for the Search bonus, I'll stop putting ranks in it and start putting 1 rank per level in both K: Arcana and K: Planes. I might throw one rank into Open Locks just to be able to do it. Honestly, locked doors are best handled with a Wand of Knock or an adamantine battleaxe in the hands of a power attacking barbarian (we have two of those in the party).

So... Decent build? Any fatal flaws?

Thanks!

- Ron ^*^
skrap-san
12-03-07, 01:28 AM It looks good to me. Most likely what I would have done to actually.
Werebat
12-03-07, 04:11 AM It looks good to me. Most likely what I would have done to actually.

Thanks. I've read Edy's fantastic guide to the artificer, which was great overall but contained some advice I wasn't sure I agreed with completely. For example, PBS and Precise Shot do seem like nice feats but there are other options that might be better. Then again, I'm playing a goblin with a net +2 to hit with ranged attacks anyway, so I don't so much need the +4 or +5 to hit with ranged attacks into melee that PS and PBS offers.

Also, the advice to invest in Craft skills always seemed off to me... Building your own items from scratch seems to take more time than it's worth IMO. Although it does make SENSE for an Artificer to be able to do it, it doesn't seem ultimately worthwhile.

Oh -- we do have a warforged barbarian in the party as well, so I'll be tasked with his upkeep as well, no doubt. No problem here, I see it as an opportunity to be useful in yet another way.

One more nice thing about playing a goblin artificer -- you get a +4 bonus to Hide and Move Silently. This is great if you are filling in for the party rogue. At 1st level, you are literally better at sneaking around than a human rogue with the same base stats (except your Spot and Listen are weak). With investment in the right magic items, you can remain relatively stealthy while checking for traps at the front of the party, even with no actual ranks in the stealth skills. :shifty:

Also, does it get better than this for a character portrait of a goblin artificer? Well, the complete original is better, but I have and am using that! :P

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Ikrpg_art_races_gobber.jpg

- Ron ^*^
skrap-san
12-03-07, 07:56 AM well the craft is not really important at lower levels if you ask me (I may get a storm for this). I can see that its handy to be able to scribe scrolls etc. But its not until later levels that you will get the off time to do these things.
And again it all depends on your idea behind the character. So if you want to focus on infusions and temporary boosts then do so, don't slave under someone else's ideas for your character.

At least in my world fun goes before best optimization, but sometimes they go hand in hand to.
Werebat
12-03-07, 08:16 PM well the craft is not really important at lower levels if you ask me (I may get a storm for this). I can see that its handy to be able to scribe scrolls etc. But its not until later levels that you will get the off time to do these things.
And again it all depends on your idea behind the character. So if you want to focus on infusions and temporary boosts then do so, don't slave under someone else's ideas for your character.

At least in my world fun goes before best optimization, but sometimes they go hand in hand to.

Well, of course I plan to make lots of magic items, I just don't see the point in investing in Craft skills to (say) craft some boots first before enchanting them when you can just buy them and enchant them and save a lot of time.

Especially when there is no actual mechanic in the game that gives you a benefit for doing this. Magic boots cost half the value of the magic boots to make, BTB there is not reduction in price if you make a pair of boots first.

I do think I will throw one rank in Open Locks though, as IIRC you can take 20 on OL checks. Once I get Gloves of Dex +2 this will mean I can take 20 and open DC 25 locks if I need to. Could save a charge or two off of the old Wand of Knock I'll inevitably craft.

Right out of the gate and this character is already lots of fun! So many options, and I think the lack of a party rogue will only make things more fun for me!

- Ron ^*^
Edymnion
12-03-07, 10:37 PM Well, of course I plan to make lots of magic items, I just don't see the point in investing in Craft skills to (say) craft some boots first before enchanting them when you can just buy them and enchant them and save a lot of time.

Especially when there is no actual mechanic in the game that gives you a benefit for doing this. Magic boots cost half the value of the magic boots to make, BTB there is not reduction in price if you make a pair of boots first.Actually, there is.
Not so much in misc. items, but in weapons and armor, the price of the base weapon/armor *IS* factored into the final product. If you craft your own weapon/armor, you get it at a third of the market price, and can then enchant it at half the market price.

Also, at higher levels, it lets you pull off some cool stunts. Infuse the raw materials with Fabricate, to instantly turn a pile of iron into a suit of masterwork full plate, ready to enchant. Thing is, you still need to make the craft check for the fabrication.

And when you craft an item you want to enchant, you can enchant while crafting. Not much of a time saver over buying the base item, but you don't have to take downtime to do both.

If nothing else, there's the personalization factor.
If you buy it, the item looks like whatever the other guy wants it to look like. If you make it, it looks like what YOU want it to look like.
Werebat
12-04-07, 04:16 PM Actually, there is.
Not so much in misc. items, but in weapons and armor, the price of the base weapon/armor *IS* factored into the final product. If you craft your own weapon/armor, you get it at a third of the market price, and can then enchant it at half the market price.

Also, at higher levels, it lets you pull off some cool stunts. Infuse the raw materials with Fabricate, to instantly turn a pile of iron into a suit of masterwork full plate, ready to enchant. Thing is, you still need to make the craft check for the fabrication.

And when you craft an item you want to enchant, you can enchant while crafting. Not much of a time saver over buying the base item, but you don't have to take downtime to do both.

If nothing else, there's the personalization factor.
If you buy it, the item looks like whatever the other guy wants it to look like. If you make it, it looks like what YOU want it to look like.

Thanks for the advice, Edy. I'll be spiking up my Int with level increases so maybe I will end up putting some points into Craft eventually so I can play with this a little. Plus it might be nice to be able to repair the party Warforged I guess.

Another thing I thought long and hard about was whether or not to take PBS and PS, as you suggest in your guide. On one hand it makes my goblin quite the little sharpshooter early on, on the other I'm not sure if it's ultimately worth it at high levels when he'll rarely miss with his rays anyway.

As for a subspecialization, our DM has banned everything other than core and Eberron books, so the buffy route is harder to take than the blasty one. To that end, however, I am wondering about the utility of Heighten Spell. If I use this with a 1st level wand, and drain 9 charges, I can cast it as a 9th level spell. Does that ramp up the DC of the wand to 19 (10+9) or all the way to 23 (10+9+4 for the stat mod required to cast a 9th level spell)? With Wand Mastery, I'd end up spending less than 200 gp per shot to cast DC 25 spells -- not bad at low level!

- Ron ^*^
Werebat
02-25-08, 11:42 PM So, a continuation of this thread (ressurrection?)...

I've gotten my goblin artificer up to 2nd level. Some things I've observed:

1. Trapmonkeying is DANGEROUS when you have a Wis of 9 and no ranks in Spot or Listen. At this level I'm still respectable as a sneaker but that won't last either. The Duergar barbarian got the boot for attacking another PC and that player is now playing a ranger, so hopefully I can convince him to scout ahead with me so he can spot trouble before I bungle into it (and if nothing else he'll be a second target for enemies we don't see). Meanwhile I know I'll have to invest in sneak-enhancing items more than I had originally planned.

2. I'm already getting tired of the two party healers (cleric and druid) twiddling their thumbs and whistling whenever the warforged barbie (main party tank) needs healing. I seem to spend every infusion on repairing his shiny metal ass. I suppose a wand of repair light damage will help when I inevitably craft one, but again -- yet another item I wasn't planning on making.

I'm not complaining -- much -- just noticing some interesting dynamics I hadn't expected early on. One great thing is that the first real magic item we found was a pair of goggles of minute seeing. Saves me the trouble of making myself a pair!

Any advice on cheap, low-level items to make that will help me mimic a rogue (and stay alive while doing so)?

- Ron ^*^
Edymnion
02-26-08, 12:28 PM Don't begrudge the WF his healing. That makes *YOU* his biggest priority when it comes to who he protects first. Its a symbiotic relationship, you keep him repaired, he keeps you protected. He can also help you with your trap disabling. If its a poison based trap, for example, you don't need to disarm it, just let him spring it. He's immune.

You can also look into a MW set of thieve's tools, thats a +2 to a lot of your checks for not much money.

Also, instead of a wand, try looking into a minor schema of Repair X Damage.
Werebat
02-26-08, 03:50 PM Don't begrudge the WF his healing. That makes *YOU* his biggest priority when it comes to who he protects first. Its a symbiotic relationship, you keep him repaired, he keeps you protected. He can also help you with your trap disabling. If its a poison based trap, for example, you don't need to disarm it, just let him spring it. He's immune.

You can also look into a MW set of thieve's tools, thats a +2 to a lot of your checks for not much money.

Also, instead of a wand, try looking into a minor schema of Repair X Damage.

Oh, I don't begrudge the WF himself, and I always heal him... And to be fair, it isn't like the two party healers are doing much besides healing the rest of the party at this point, either. I agree he is a big asset (we're running through Age of Worms and just found a section in the first adventure that is completely underwater -- we plan to buff the heck out of him and send him in alone with a spear since he can walk on the bottom and doesn't need to breathe). Good point about poison traps.

I'm definitely getting a set of MW picks and tools, if for no other reason than they make my 1 rank investment in Open Locks more effective (they'll let me get a 26 when I take 20, enough to open average locks -- anything tougher than that and I'll have to use a Knock scroll or wand). IIRC Vest of Escape is a cheap early magic item that provides even better magic lockpicks (and a sweet bonus to Escape Artist that could save my life).

Minor Schema -- I've heard of them, but I keep forgetting to look them up. Where can I find them? Magic of Eberron?

I was just looking for pictures to use for my character and I learned that there are a lot of goblin artificers in World of Warcraft (both in game and illustrated)! I've never actually played WoW so this was a bit of a surprise to me. How cool is that? Combined with the pics of the gobber bodgers from Iron Kingdoms, that's a lot of artwork available for this kind of character.

I actually made a scroll at 1st level! Obscuring Mist. My DM allowed me to describe my "scrolls" as little one-shot gadgets for flavor, which is cool. So I have a smoky glass marble that should billow out a cloud of fog when I twist it just the right way and smash it on the ground...

- Ron ^*^

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Werebat 11-29-07, 07:51 PM	(This seems like it should be in CO, but I figured the fine folks here may actually be more well versed in this sort of thing, so here goes...) OK, so my next character for a new Eberron campaign (this one will be long-term, expected to run for 3 years or so) was planned to be a goblin artificer. Recent events have made me want to -- not so much change the character as alter the build somewhat. Or at least explore my options. Mainly, it has come to my attention that no one else in the party (which will include a human cleric/sovereignspeaker and a shifter druid/moonspeaker) is playing a rogue. OK, fine, I can fill that niche as an artificer (and a goblin one at that), but I'm not sure how best to do it. Would it be worth taking a level of rogue? I don't need it to do the trapfinding thing because artificers have that ability (and its relevant skills) already, but a couple of levels for Reflex boost and evasion seem like they might be a good idea. Anyway, any help with feats, spells, tricks, etc. that could help out a goblin artificer who is filling in for party rogue? Here's the ground rules: 1. The campaign will be Age of Worms. I don't want to know secrets about AoW, I have avoided reading about it because I don't like to cheat. I only mention the fact because I know that undead will likely be a major enemy type, which may factor in to why no one wanted to play a rogue (and why I don't care too much about Sneak Attack for this character). 2. Books allowed: Core, all Eberron books, Spell and Magic Item Compendiums, and THAT'S IT. No Completes, no PHBII, nothing. 3. This is a BIG gaming group, 7-8 players, so no cohorts will be allowed (ie I can't just get a rogue cohort). Here's my original build, before the lack of party rogue situation was revealed: Goblin Artificer 1. Art1 * Heroic Spirit 2. Art2 3. Art3 * Rapid Infusion 4. Art4 * Extraordinary Artisan 5. Art5 6. Art6 * Empower Spell 7. Art7 8. Art8 * Wand Mastery 9. Art9 * Maximize Spell 10.Art10 11.Art11 12.Art12 * * Extra Rings, Wand Surge Any suggestions to make him more effective to fill in for party rogue? I'm primarily talking trapmonkeying here, although some sneakery will be possible at the low levels (and maybe higher with magic item and spell boosts) due to the handy goblin +4 size and racial bonuses to hide and move silently, respectively (tack on to a high Dex and items like Boots and Cloak of Elve -- I mean, Goblin Sneakery :D ). Thanks, - Ron ^*^
Werebat 12-02-07, 07:01 PM	OK, no responses... So, is there anything inherently WRONG with my build? Any obvious flaws? We rolled characters last night and my stat block (after adjustments) is: Str 9 Dex 16 Con 14 Int 16 Wis 9 Cha 12 This seems pretty good for an artificer. I'm going straight artificer (no rogue levels) and I chose to distribute my skill points as follows: UMD 4 (of course) Spellcraft 4 Search 4 Disable Device 4 K: Arcana 2 K: Planes 2 K: Architecture 4 After getting 5 ranks in K: Architecture for the Search bonus, I'll stop putting ranks in it and start putting 1 rank per level in both K: Arcana and K: Planes. I might throw one rank into Open Locks just to be able to do it. Honestly, locked doors are best handled with a Wand of Knock or an adamantine battleaxe in the hands of a power attacking barbarian (we have two of those in the party). So... Decent build? Any fatal flaws? Thanks! - Ron ^*^
skrap-san 12-03-07, 01:28 AM	It looks good to me. Most likely what I would have done to actually.
Werebat 12-03-07, 04:11 AM	It looks good to me. Most likely what I would have done to actually. Thanks. I've read Edy's fantastic guide to the artificer, which was great overall but contained some advice I wasn't sure I agreed with completely. For example, PBS and Precise Shot do seem like nice feats but there are other options that might be better. Then again, I'm playing a goblin with a net +2 to hit with ranged attacks anyway, so I don't so much need the +4 or +5 to hit with ranged attacks into melee that PS and PBS offers. Also, the advice to invest in Craft skills always seemed off to me... Building your own items from scratch seems to take more time than it's worth IMO. Although it does make SENSE for an Artificer to be able to do it, it doesn't seem ultimately worthwhile. Oh -- we do have a warforged barbarian in the party as well, so I'll be tasked with his upkeep as well, no doubt. No problem here, I see it as an opportunity to be useful in yet another way. One more nice thing about playing a goblin artificer -- you get a +4 bonus to Hide and Move Silently. This is great if you are filling in for the party rogue. At 1st level, you are literally better at sneaking around than a human rogue with the same base stats (except your Spot and Listen are weak). With investment in the right magic items, you can remain relatively stealthy while checking for traps at the front of the party, even with no actual ranks in the stealth skills. :shifty: Also, does it get better than this for a character portrait of a goblin artificer? Well, the complete original is better, but I have and am using that! :P http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Ikrpg_art_races_gobber.jpg - Ron ^*^
skrap-san 12-03-07, 07:56 AM	well the craft is not really important at lower levels if you ask me (I may get a storm for this). I can see that its handy to be able to scribe scrolls etc. But its not until later levels that you will get the off time to do these things. And again it all depends on your idea behind the character. So if you want to focus on infusions and temporary boosts then do so, don't slave under someone else's ideas for your character. At least in my world fun goes before best optimization, but sometimes they go hand in hand to.
Werebat 12-03-07, 08:16 PM	well the craft is not really important at lower levels if you ask me (I may get a storm for this). I can see that its handy to be able to scribe scrolls etc. But its not until later levels that you will get the off time to do these things. And again it all depends on your idea behind the character. So if you want to focus on infusions and temporary boosts then do so, don't slave under someone else's ideas for your character. At least in my world fun goes before best optimization, but sometimes they go hand in hand to. Well, of course I plan to make lots of magic items, I just don't see the point in investing in Craft skills to (say) craft some boots first before enchanting them when you can just buy them and enchant them and save a lot of time. Especially when there is no actual mechanic in the game that gives you a benefit for doing this. Magic boots cost half the value of the magic boots to make, BTB there is not reduction in price if you make a pair of boots first. I do think I will throw one rank in Open Locks though, as IIRC you can take 20 on OL checks. Once I get Gloves of Dex +2 this will mean I can take 20 and open DC 25 locks if I need to. Could save a charge or two off of the old Wand of Knock I'll inevitably craft. Right out of the gate and this character is already lots of fun! So many options, and I think the lack of a party rogue will only make things more fun for me! - Ron ^*^
Edymnion 12-03-07, 10:37 PM	Well, of course I plan to make lots of magic items, I just don't see the point in investing in Craft skills to (say) craft some boots first before enchanting them when you can just buy them and enchant them and save a lot of time. Especially when there is no actual mechanic in the game that gives you a benefit for doing this. Magic boots cost half the value of the magic boots to make, BTB there is not reduction in price if you make a pair of boots first.Actually, there is. Not so much in misc. items, but in weapons and armor, the price of the base weapon/armor IS factored into the final product. If you craft your own weapon/armor, you get it at a third of the market price, and can then enchant it at half the market price. Also, at higher levels, it lets you pull off some cool stunts. Infuse the raw materials with Fabricate, to instantly turn a pile of iron into a suit of masterwork full plate, ready to enchant. Thing is, you still need to make the craft check for the fabrication. And when you craft an item you want to enchant, you can enchant while crafting. Not much of a time saver over buying the base item, but you don't have to take downtime to do both. If nothing else, there's the personalization factor. If you buy it, the item looks like whatever the other guy wants it to look like. If you make it, it looks like what YOU want it to look like.
Werebat 12-04-07, 04:16 PM	Actually, there is. Not so much in misc. items, but in weapons and armor, the price of the base weapon/armor IS factored into the final product. If you craft your own weapon/armor, you get it at a third of the market price, and can then enchant it at half the market price. Also, at higher levels, it lets you pull off some cool stunts. Infuse the raw materials with Fabricate, to instantly turn a pile of iron into a suit of masterwork full plate, ready to enchant. Thing is, you still need to make the craft check for the fabrication. And when you craft an item you want to enchant, you can enchant while crafting. Not much of a time saver over buying the base item, but you don't have to take downtime to do both. If nothing else, there's the personalization factor. If you buy it, the item looks like whatever the other guy wants it to look like. If you make it, it looks like what YOU want it to look like. Thanks for the advice, Edy. I'll be spiking up my Int with level increases so maybe I will end up putting some points into Craft eventually so I can play with this a little. Plus it might be nice to be able to repair the party Warforged I guess. Another thing I thought long and hard about was whether or not to take PBS and PS, as you suggest in your guide. On one hand it makes my goblin quite the little sharpshooter early on, on the other I'm not sure if it's ultimately worth it at high levels when he'll rarely miss with his rays anyway. As for a subspecialization, our DM has banned everything other than core and Eberron books, so the buffy route is harder to take than the blasty one. To that end, however, I am wondering about the utility of Heighten Spell. If I use this with a 1st level wand, and drain 9 charges, I can cast it as a 9th level spell. Does that ramp up the DC of the wand to 19 (10+9) or all the way to 23 (10+9+4 for the stat mod required to cast a 9th level spell)? With Wand Mastery, I'd end up spending less than 200 gp per shot to cast DC 25 spells -- not bad at low level! - Ron ^*^
Werebat 02-25-08, 11:42 PM	So, a continuation of this thread (ressurrection?)... I've gotten my goblin artificer up to 2nd level. Some things I've observed: 1. Trapmonkeying is DANGEROUS when you have a Wis of 9 and no ranks in Spot or Listen. At this level I'm still respectable as a sneaker but that won't last either. The Duergar barbarian got the boot for attacking another PC and that player is now playing a ranger, so hopefully I can convince him to scout ahead with me so he can spot trouble before I bungle into it (and if nothing else he'll be a second target for enemies we don't see). Meanwhile I know I'll have to invest in sneak-enhancing items more than I had originally planned. 2. I'm already getting tired of the two party healers (cleric and druid) twiddling their thumbs and whistling whenever the warforged barbie (main party tank) needs healing. I seem to spend every infusion on repairing his shiny metal ass. I suppose a wand of repair light damage will help when I inevitably craft one, but again -- yet another item I wasn't planning on making. I'm not complaining -- much -- just noticing some interesting dynamics I hadn't expected early on. One great thing is that the first real magic item we found was a pair of goggles of minute seeing. Saves me the trouble of making myself a pair! Any advice on cheap, low-level items to make that will help me mimic a rogue (and stay alive while doing so)? - Ron ^*^
Edymnion 02-26-08, 12:28 PM	Don't begrudge the WF his healing. That makes YOU his biggest priority when it comes to who he protects first. Its a symbiotic relationship, you keep him repaired, he keeps you protected. He can also help you with your trap disabling. If its a poison based trap, for example, you don't need to disarm it, just let him spring it. He's immune. You can also look into a MW set of thieve's tools, thats a +2 to a lot of your checks for not much money. Also, instead of a wand, try looking into a minor schema of Repair X Damage.
Werebat 02-26-08, 03:50 PM	Don't begrudge the WF his healing. That makes YOU his biggest priority when it comes to who he protects first. Its a symbiotic relationship, you keep him repaired, he keeps you protected. He can also help you with your trap disabling. If its a poison based trap, for example, you don't need to disarm it, just let him spring it. He's immune. You can also look into a MW set of thieve's tools, thats a +2 to a lot of your checks for not much money. Also, instead of a wand, try looking into a minor schema of Repair X Damage. Oh, I don't begrudge the WF himself, and I always heal him... And to be fair, it isn't like the two party healers are doing much besides healing the rest of the party at this point, either. I agree he is a big asset (we're running through Age of Worms and just found a section in the first adventure that is completely underwater -- we plan to buff the heck out of him and send him in alone with a spear since he can walk on the bottom and doesn't need to breathe). Good point about poison traps. I'm definitely getting a set of MW picks and tools, if for no other reason than they make my 1 rank investment in Open Locks more effective (they'll let me get a 26 when I take 20, enough to open average locks -- anything tougher than that and I'll have to use a Knock scroll or wand). IIRC Vest of Escape is a cheap early magic item that provides even better magic lockpicks (and a sweet bonus to Escape Artist that could save my life). Minor Schema -- I've heard of them, but I keep forgetting to look them up. Where can I find them? Magic of Eberron? I was just looking for pictures to use for my character and I learned that there are a lot of goblin artificers in World of Warcraft (both in game and illustrated)! I've never actually played WoW so this was a bit of a surprise to me. How cool is that? Combined with the pics of the gobber bodgers from Iron Kingdoms, that's a lot of artwork available for this kind of character. I actually made a scroll at 1st level! Obscuring Mist. My DM allowed me to describe my "scrolls" as little one-shot gadgets for flavor, which is cool. So I have a smoky glass marble that should billow out a cloud of fog when I twist it just the right way and smash it on the ground... - Ron ^*^