Hags and deathless councillors. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Hags and deathless councillors. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Daydreamer
03-27-07, 07:02 PM The hags, dont seem to play as much a role in the 'metaphysics' of the game as Rakshasa's, perhaps because they are much less common in population.

What exactly is the relationship between hags and Rakshasa's?
The only 'great' hag sounds to be sora-kell, and obviously her daugthers would be incredibly powerful as well. But there seems to be no clear agenda here?

Also, what about the Ascendant councilor's? Much like The daelkyr one gets the impression that much much more powerful and unique ones exist than the one presented in the EBS, but ive only been able to locate 1 entity suggested in magic of eberron that indicates this individual 'might' have become the first ascendant councillor.

Do any of the supplements have more to say on these individuals?
AvonRekaes
03-27-07, 07:55 PM Some of the lore about Ascendant Councilors seems to be contradictory. There's a line in the ECS that some of the most powerful members of the Undying Court have near godlike power, but another says that worshippers of the Undying Court don't worship any specific councilor but their combined essence as a whole. If there was a couple of Ascendant Councilors that were different from the rest, it might dispute that.

Also, the lore of Aeren from Magic of Eberron should largely be ignored. It changes too many things. First, that the elves didn't rebel until the Dragons invaded the Giant Empire, second, that their rebellion was largely a simple exodus not a war (making the Valenar's ancient ancestors less cool by implication that all they were doing was running away), and last but biggest of all, that Aeren was the first Undying. This is impossible. The Aerenal elves didn't discover the process to create the Undying until thousands of years after Aeren died. Thousands of years after they first encounterd an Irian manifest zone, required for the existance of the Undying Court.
Also, Aeren should be female, according to the Dragonshard on the issue.
Daydreamer
03-27-07, 09:46 PM Hmm i took magic of eberron to be the official, and the dragonshard on Aeren to be a historical error. Keep in mind that doesnt make him a deathless because it leaves that up in the air. But it does provide insight into the power of blood-vol-vs the deathless.

I know the one is written by Keith however im not sure how to resolve that conflict. Perhaps its just a miscommunication between supplements.
The Dreaming Duck
03-27-07, 10:31 PM Hmm i took magic of eberron to be the official, and the dragonshard on Aeren to be a historical error.
This seems logical to me. The Player's Guide to Eberron, which Keith worked on, came out after MoE and lists Aeren as male. So I'd assume that the author of the MoE section didn't pay attention to the Dragonshard, and in writing PGtE the authors decided to match MoE in terms of gender.

However, beyond this, the Aerenal section of the PGTE - which I'd personally consider to be a more official source of historical data than an aside in MoE - matches the Dragonshard version. Consider the following:
MoE states that the elves didn't begin tracking their history until after leaving Aerenal. This completely undermines the very concept of Tairnadal culture, which is based on reverence for the heroes OF XEN'DRIK. Furthermore, it contradicts both Dragonshard and Dragonmarked information about House Phiarlan, which supposedly continues to preserve artistic traditions and stories from Xen'drik.
The legend presumes that giants were the source of necromancy and blood magic. Other sources, including Secrets of Xen'drik, assert that the first and greatest necromancers were the Qabalrin elves, who were feared and reviled by the giants... and whose destruction was seen as an act of divine punishment for their foul practices.
Page 30 of MoE clearly states "Aeren was transformed into the first of the Undying." Page 18 of the PGtE states "(Aeren) did not survive the journey. Aeren was interred within the island, and the elves named their new home Aerenal, or 'Aeren's Rest'.
Aeren's rebellion is described as being extremely secretive - involving only one hundred hand-picked slaves - and based entirely around the use of magic. There is nothing here to justify the traditions of the Tairnadal, proud warriors wielding double scimitars on horseback.
Meanwhile, PGtE, the ECS, and SoX describe the conflict as a brutal war. It's BECAUSE the war is so difficult that the giants prepare to use the same magic they used against the quori against the rebellious elves, and this in turn is what brings the dragons to Xen'drik. Aeren doesn't WIN the war - Aeren leads a small group of elves away before the dragons come and destroy elf AND giant. If there is no ongoing conflict between elf and giant, there's no opponent to force the giants to use their cataclysmic magic, there's no cause for the dragons to strike, and the whole thing falls apart.
The MoE story is an interesting story, and perhaps one believed outside of Aerenal. But it provides no basis for Tairnadal culture, fails to explain the actions of the dragons, and presents the elves with the "ritual of the deathless" ten thousand years before the foundation of the Undying Court. Given that neither Keith Baker or James Wyatt worked on MoE, I'm certainly inclined to give my support to the books they did work on - the ECS, PGtE, and in the case of Keith, SoX.

Also, what about the Ascendant councilor's?
The Players Guide to Eberron states that undying councilors, while powerful, do not have divine power as individuals, but wield greater power when they come together as a council. It continues to say that the Court (not an individual councilor) can empower priests across Eberron, but can only directly influence events on Aerenal. So essentially, the Undying Court taken as a whole has the power of a deity, and its sphere of influence is the island of Aerenal. There are undoubtedly individual councilors with greater power than listed in the ECS, but at the same time, individual power isn't the point of the Undying Court; rather, it's about the power they wield when they act as one.
AvonRekaes
03-27-07, 10:37 PM The problem with the Magic of Eberron one isn't that it contradicts the Dragonshard, it's that it contradicts everything else written about the era in the ECS.

First, it assumes that all the elves that left the exodus had only started to learn magic within Aeren's lifetime. Supposedly he was the first to gain magic knowledge from his masters and teach it to the other elves. This is a woefully incorrect. According to the timeline in the ECS, around -60,000 YK the elves started to learn at their masters heels. The exodus occured in -39,000 YK so elves had plenty of generations to learn magic, way before Aeren.

Second, it seems to imply that Aeren and his inner circle were the first to discover the idea of the power of blood, trying to insinuate a link to the Blood of Vol, while the traditions of the Blood of Vol actually date back much farther to ancient elven vampires.

Third, it clearly states that Aeren became the first of the undying, which is categorically false. As I said earlier, the exodus occured in -39,000 YK, when the Undying Court was established in -25,000 YK. Even accepting that maybe deathless elves may have existed before an actual court was established, the Undying elves are inherently linked to the manifest zones of Aerenal. All other lore about the Undying says that they need the manifest zone to exist. So how could Aeren be Undying before they even left Xen'drik to find the manifest zone that would later support him?
Daydreamer
03-27-07, 11:10 PM Actually i just read it, and the third issue, with aeren becoming an undying, it suggests as a possibility or rumor.

It does seem to be in tension with other matierial, the only thing i could do to reconcile is say they are competing historical interpretations, perhaps both have some part of truth, perhaps one is true the other false, perhaps both false.

I dont like having to do this however -__-, in our games we are exceptionally commited to sticking with official 'fluff' material.
AvonRekaes
03-28-07, 12:00 AM Then I encourage you to take the Dragonshard as cannon over ther Magic of Eberron legend. It is more internally consistent with the lore of Eberron.

The Magic of Eberron legend, if you insist on using it, might actually be a legend that the elves themselves scoff at. It could be something gleaned from ruins discovered in Morgrave University expeditions.

I.E. a third party (humans) started to investigate and drew the wrong conclusions. The Elves are insular and probably don't care to correct a silly human investigation, and silently scoff at how badly they skewed things. (Like getting the gender of their savior wrong)

Also, something else I just thought of: if Aeren was Undying, "he'd" exist today as an Ascendant Councilor or some other type of deathless, yet "he" isn't mentioned anywhere at all. You'd think if they named the nation after him, they'd worship him as the face of the Undying Court.
Daydreamer
03-28-07, 03:02 AM thats good advice, still...

wheres keith when you need him?

WWKD-what would keith do lol :P
AvonRekaes
03-28-07, 04:04 AM Well Keith wrote the Dragonshard... so I'd take that as the real version. :P
Daydreamer
03-28-07, 04:11 AM Right, well onto the next component.

Whats the deal with Sora-kell? And her daugthers. And for this matter hags in general, they dont seem to have any overarching purpose like Rakshasa's do, yet seem to be by complanency at least aligned with those creatures.

Though obviously the daughters of Sora-kell seem to have something in mind. What material is out there on this.
Hellcow
03-28-07, 11:25 AM wheres keith when you need him?
Dreaming Duck hit most of the points that I would. I didn't work on MoE or have any sort of editorial oversight on it; if I had, I'd have pointed out that the story contradicts the history and culture of the Tairnadal and the basis for the draconic destruction of Xen'drik, not to the dragonshards. I think it's fine as one legend put forward by people OUTSIDE of Aerenal, but given that Tairnadal culture is completely centered around emulating the deeds of martial heroes of the elf-giant war, and that the military traditions of the Tairnadal/Valenar are a reflection of this militant past,the concept that it was a secret, primarily magical struggle carried out by a handful of slaves doesn't add up. Likewise, I have always asserted that the Undying Court, the traditions of the line of Vol, and the modern religious practices of the Tairnadal all evolved on Aerenal in reaction to the loss of Aeren and the other heroes of the past: that they were all different reactions to "How can we preserve our greatest souls in the future." Likewise, the powerful manifest zones linked to both Irian and Mabar on Aerenal are supposed to have made techniques on both sides of the positive/negative argument possible... and as noted, it took ten thousand years to perfect the arts of the Undying.

And for this matter hags in general, they dont seem to have any overarching purpose like Rakshasa's do,
Because hags in general are mortal creatures that don't have the same linked history as the immortal rakshasas. The key here is to differentiate NIGHT HAGS - which are immortal outsiders - from annis/green/sea/dusk hags, which are mortal creatures. The role of night hags in Eberron is specifically discussed on page 305 of the ECS. Among other things, there are far fewer night hags than rakshasa, something specifically called out in this dragonshard (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20050725a).

Sora Kell is an especially powerful night hag. As such, if you go by the dragonshards (Part One (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20041018a) and Part Two (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20041025a)), the Daughters of Sora Kell aren't just hags, they are half-fiend hags. So there's a significant difference between Sora Maenya and some other annis hag you stumble across in your adventures. The Daughters are bound together by their unique lineage; but other hags are as diverse as humans, gnolls, or any other mortal race.
Daydreamer
03-28-07, 01:43 PM I see, so Night hags are to be considered in a completely different way than regular Hags?

Regular hags are essentially a NPC Monster race-and have no great metaphysical purpose as a species-except to the extent that one of them gets involved in something, much like a high level human or gnome might.

Night hags have a historical origin like Rakshasa's and once ruled the world with them. They are part of that 'tapestry' of the age of demons.

Oh. All the things sealed beneath Khyber from the age of demons, are rajahs? Are any of them ancient and evil Night hags by chance? Or something other than a rakshasa Rajah?
Hellcow
03-28-07, 02:27 PM I see, so Night hags are to be considered in a completely different way than regular Hags?
Correct.

Night hags have a historical origin like Rakshasa's and once ruled the world with them. They are part of that 'tapestry' of the age of demons.
Part of the tapestry, yes. Rulers, no. Check out the end of the monster section of the Eberron Campaign Setting book.

Oh. All the things sealed beneath Khyber from the age of demons, are rajahs? Are any of them ancient and evil Night hags by chance? Or something other than a rakshasa Rajah?
The "rajahs", AKA Overlords, are NOT rakshasas. While they are often refered to as "rakshasa rajahs", this is because they ruled rakshasas, not because they were rakshasas. Each Overlord is a unique, extremely powerful outsider. You could have an Overlord who favors the appearance of a hag, but she wouldn't be a hag in any meaningful sense of the word.
Daydreamer
03-28-07, 04:06 PM I see....now as i recall you mentioned the overlords are leveled entities.
For example a 50 hd Daelkry is a being with alot of power, but the Rajahs are (at least the ones you stat) actual classed entities. Level 35 wizards and what not.
Hellcow
03-28-07, 04:51 PM I see....now as i recall you mentioned the overlords are leveled entities.
For example a 50 hd Daelkry is a being with alot of power, but the Rajahs are (at least the ones you stat) actual classed entities. Level 35 wizards and what not.
Beyond that, they also possess innate abilities and immunities that put them on par with beings of divine rank. They don't possess all of the powers of deities, but they have abilities that are normally unavailable to mortals. And, of course, there's that whole "can't be killed" thing.

Clarifying: members of the Lords of Dust are typically rakshasas with class levels. The leaders of the Lords of Dust - the Council of Ashtakala - are very powerful rakshasa; Hektula the Bloody Scribe is an epic level wizard. But Hektula speaks for the Overlord Sul Khatesh, whose power dwarfs her own.
Daydreamer
03-28-07, 06:26 PM I notice that night hags do not advance via class levels, wereas regular hags do...thats wierd...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Daydreamer 03-27-07, 07:02 PM	The hags, dont seem to play as much a role in the 'metaphysics' of the game as Rakshasa's, perhaps because they are much less common in population. What exactly is the relationship between hags and Rakshasa's? The only 'great' hag sounds to be sora-kell, and obviously her daugthers would be incredibly powerful as well. But there seems to be no clear agenda here? Also, what about the Ascendant councilor's? Much like The daelkyr one gets the impression that much much more powerful and unique ones exist than the one presented in the EBS, but ive only been able to locate 1 entity suggested in magic of eberron that indicates this individual 'might' have become the first ascendant councillor. Do any of the supplements have more to say on these individuals?
AvonRekaes 03-27-07, 07:55 PM	Some of the lore about Ascendant Councilors seems to be contradictory. There's a line in the ECS that some of the most powerful members of the Undying Court have near godlike power, but another says that worshippers of the Undying Court don't worship any specific councilor but their combined essence as a whole. If there was a couple of Ascendant Councilors that were different from the rest, it might dispute that. Also, the lore of Aeren from Magic of Eberron should largely be ignored. It changes too many things. First, that the elves didn't rebel until the Dragons invaded the Giant Empire, second, that their rebellion was largely a simple exodus not a war (making the Valenar's ancient ancestors less cool by implication that all they were doing was running away), and last but biggest of all, that Aeren was the first Undying. This is impossible. The Aerenal elves didn't discover the process to create the Undying until thousands of years after Aeren died. Thousands of years after they first encounterd an Irian manifest zone, required for the existance of the Undying Court. Also, Aeren should be female, according to the Dragonshard on the issue.
Daydreamer 03-27-07, 09:46 PM	Hmm i took magic of eberron to be the official, and the dragonshard on Aeren to be a historical error. Keep in mind that doesnt make him a deathless because it leaves that up in the air. But it does provide insight into the power of blood-vol-vs the deathless. I know the one is written by Keith however im not sure how to resolve that conflict. Perhaps its just a miscommunication between supplements.
The Dreaming Duck 03-27-07, 10:31 PM	Hmm i took magic of eberron to be the official, and the dragonshard on Aeren to be a historical error. This seems logical to me. The Player's Guide to Eberron, which Keith worked on, came out after MoE and lists Aeren as male. So I'd assume that the author of the MoE section didn't pay attention to the Dragonshard, and in writing PGtE the authors decided to match MoE in terms of gender. However, beyond this, the Aerenal section of the PGTE - which I'd personally consider to be a more official source of historical data than an aside in MoE - matches the Dragonshard version. Consider the following: MoE states that the elves didn't begin tracking their history until after leaving Aerenal. This completely undermines the very concept of Tairnadal culture, which is based on reverence for the heroes OF XEN'DRIK. Furthermore, it contradicts both Dragonshard and Dragonmarked information about House Phiarlan, which supposedly continues to preserve artistic traditions and stories from Xen'drik. The legend presumes that giants were the source of necromancy and blood magic. Other sources, including Secrets of Xen'drik, assert that the first and greatest necromancers were the Qabalrin elves, who were feared and reviled by the giants... and whose destruction was seen as an act of divine punishment for their foul practices. Page 30 of MoE clearly states "Aeren was transformed into the first of the Undying." Page 18 of the PGtE states "(Aeren) did not survive the journey. Aeren was interred within the island, and the elves named their new home Aerenal, or 'Aeren's Rest'. Aeren's rebellion is described as being extremely secretive - involving only one hundred hand-picked slaves - and based entirely around the use of magic. There is nothing here to justify the traditions of the Tairnadal, proud warriors wielding double scimitars on horseback. Meanwhile, PGtE, the ECS, and SoX describe the conflict as a brutal war. It's BECAUSE the war is so difficult that the giants prepare to use the same magic they used against the quori against the rebellious elves, and this in turn is what brings the dragons to Xen'drik. Aeren doesn't WIN the war - Aeren leads a small group of elves away before the dragons come and destroy elf AND giant. If there is no ongoing conflict between elf and giant, there's no opponent to force the giants to use their cataclysmic magic, there's no cause for the dragons to strike, and the whole thing falls apart. The MoE story is an interesting story, and perhaps one believed outside of Aerenal. But it provides no basis for Tairnadal culture, fails to explain the actions of the dragons, and presents the elves with the "ritual of the deathless" ten thousand years before the foundation of the Undying Court. Given that neither Keith Baker or James Wyatt worked on MoE, I'm certainly inclined to give my support to the books they did work on - the ECS, PGtE, and in the case of Keith, SoX. Also, what about the Ascendant councilor's? The Players Guide to Eberron states that undying councilors, while powerful, do not have divine power as individuals, but wield greater power when they come together as a council. It continues to say that the Court (not an individual councilor) can empower priests across Eberron, but can only directly influence events on Aerenal. So essentially, the Undying Court taken as a whole has the power of a deity, and its sphere of influence is the island of Aerenal. There are undoubtedly individual councilors with greater power than listed in the ECS, but at the same time, individual power isn't the point of the Undying Court; rather, it's about the power they wield when they act as one.
AvonRekaes 03-27-07, 10:37 PM	The problem with the Magic of Eberron one isn't that it contradicts the Dragonshard, it's that it contradicts everything else written about the era in the ECS. First, it assumes that all the elves that left the exodus had only started to learn magic within Aeren's lifetime. Supposedly he was the first to gain magic knowledge from his masters and teach it to the other elves. This is a woefully incorrect. According to the timeline in the ECS, around -60,000 YK the elves started to learn at their masters heels. The exodus occured in -39,000 YK so elves had plenty of generations to learn magic, way before Aeren. Second, it seems to imply that Aeren and his inner circle were the first to discover the idea of the power of blood, trying to insinuate a link to the Blood of Vol, while the traditions of the Blood of Vol actually date back much farther to ancient elven vampires. Third, it clearly states that Aeren became the first of the undying, which is categorically false. As I said earlier, the exodus occured in -39,000 YK, when the Undying Court was established in -25,000 YK. Even accepting that maybe deathless elves may have existed before an actual court was established, the Undying elves are inherently linked to the manifest zones of Aerenal. All other lore about the Undying says that they need the manifest zone to exist. So how could Aeren be Undying before they even left Xen'drik to find the manifest zone that would later support him?
Daydreamer 03-27-07, 11:10 PM	Actually i just read it, and the third issue, with aeren becoming an undying, it suggests as a possibility or rumor. It does seem to be in tension with other matierial, the only thing i could do to reconcile is say they are competing historical interpretations, perhaps both have some part of truth, perhaps one is true the other false, perhaps both false. I dont like having to do this however -__-, in our games we are exceptionally commited to sticking with official 'fluff' material.
AvonRekaes 03-28-07, 12:00 AM	Then I encourage you to take the Dragonshard as cannon over ther Magic of Eberron legend. It is more internally consistent with the lore of Eberron. The Magic of Eberron legend, if you insist on using it, might actually be a legend that the elves themselves scoff at. It could be something gleaned from ruins discovered in Morgrave University expeditions. I.E. a third party (humans) started to investigate and drew the wrong conclusions. The Elves are insular and probably don't care to correct a silly human investigation, and silently scoff at how badly they skewed things. (Like getting the gender of their savior wrong) Also, something else I just thought of: if Aeren was Undying, "he'd" exist today as an Ascendant Councilor or some other type of deathless, yet "he" isn't mentioned anywhere at all. You'd think if they named the nation after him, they'd worship him as the face of the Undying Court.
Daydreamer 03-28-07, 03:02 AM	thats good advice, still... wheres keith when you need him? WWKD-what would keith do lol :P
AvonRekaes 03-28-07, 04:04 AM	Well Keith wrote the Dragonshard... so I'd take that as the real version. :P
Daydreamer 03-28-07, 04:11 AM	Right, well onto the next component. Whats the deal with Sora-kell? And her daugthers. And for this matter hags in general, they dont seem to have any overarching purpose like Rakshasa's do, yet seem to be by complanency at least aligned with those creatures. Though obviously the daughters of Sora-kell seem to have something in mind. What material is out there on this.
Hellcow 03-28-07, 11:25 AM	wheres keith when you need him? Dreaming Duck hit most of the points that I would. I didn't work on MoE or have any sort of editorial oversight on it; if I had, I'd have pointed out that the story contradicts the history and culture of the Tairnadal and the basis for the draconic destruction of Xen'drik, not to the dragonshards. I think it's fine as one legend put forward by people OUTSIDE of Aerenal, but given that Tairnadal culture is completely centered around emulating the deeds of martial heroes of the elf-giant war, and that the military traditions of the Tairnadal/Valenar are a reflection of this militant past,the concept that it was a secret, primarily magical struggle carried out by a handful of slaves doesn't add up. Likewise, I have always asserted that the Undying Court, the traditions of the line of Vol, and the modern religious practices of the Tairnadal all evolved on Aerenal in reaction to the loss of Aeren and the other heroes of the past: that they were all different reactions to "How can we preserve our greatest souls in the future." Likewise, the powerful manifest zones linked to both Irian and Mabar on Aerenal are supposed to have made techniques on both sides of the positive/negative argument possible... and as noted, it took ten thousand years to perfect the arts of the Undying. And for this matter hags in general, they dont seem to have any overarching purpose like Rakshasa's do, Because hags in general are mortal creatures that don't have the same linked history as the immortal rakshasas. The key here is to differentiate NIGHT HAGS - which are immortal outsiders - from annis/green/sea/dusk hags, which are mortal creatures. The role of night hags in Eberron is specifically discussed on page 305 of the ECS. Among other things, there are far fewer night hags than rakshasa, something specifically called out in this dragonshard (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20050725a). Sora Kell is an especially powerful night hag. As such, if you go by the dragonshards (Part One (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20041018a) and Part Two (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20041025a)), the Daughters of Sora Kell aren't just hags, they are half-fiend hags. So there's a significant difference between Sora Maenya and some other annis hag you stumble across in your adventures. The Daughters are bound together by their unique lineage; but other hags are as diverse as humans, gnolls, or any other mortal race.
Daydreamer 03-28-07, 01:43 PM	I see, so Night hags are to be considered in a completely different way than regular Hags? Regular hags are essentially a NPC Monster race-and have no great metaphysical purpose as a species-except to the extent that one of them gets involved in something, much like a high level human or gnome might. Night hags have a historical origin like Rakshasa's and once ruled the world with them. They are part of that 'tapestry' of the age of demons. Oh. All the things sealed beneath Khyber from the age of demons, are rajahs? Are any of them ancient and evil Night hags by chance? Or something other than a rakshasa Rajah?
Hellcow 03-28-07, 02:27 PM	I see, so Night hags are to be considered in a completely different way than regular Hags? Correct. Night hags have a historical origin like Rakshasa's and once ruled the world with them. They are part of that 'tapestry' of the age of demons. Part of the tapestry, yes. Rulers, no. Check out the end of the monster section of the Eberron Campaign Setting book. Oh. All the things sealed beneath Khyber from the age of demons, are rajahs? Are any of them ancient and evil Night hags by chance? Or something other than a rakshasa Rajah? The "rajahs", AKA Overlords, are NOT rakshasas. While they are often refered to as "rakshasa rajahs", this is because they ruled rakshasas, not because they were rakshasas. Each Overlord is a unique, extremely powerful outsider. You could have an Overlord who favors the appearance of a hag, but she wouldn't be a hag in any meaningful sense of the word.
Daydreamer 03-28-07, 04:06 PM	I see....now as i recall you mentioned the overlords are leveled entities. For example a 50 hd Daelkry is a being with alot of power, but the Rajahs are (at least the ones you stat) actual classed entities. Level 35 wizards and what not.
Hellcow 03-28-07, 04:51 PM	I see....now as i recall you mentioned the overlords are leveled entities. For example a 50 hd Daelkry is a being with alot of power, but the Rajahs are (at least the ones you stat) actual classed entities. Level 35 wizards and what not. Beyond that, they also possess innate abilities and immunities that put them on par with beings of divine rank. They don't possess all of the powers of deities, but they have abilities that are normally unavailable to mortals. And, of course, there's that whole "can't be killed" thing. Clarifying: members of the Lords of Dust are typically rakshasas with class levels. The leaders of the Lords of Dust - the Council of Ashtakala - are very powerful rakshasa; Hektula the Bloody Scribe is an epic level wizard. But Hektula speaks for the Overlord Sul Khatesh, whose power dwarfs her own.
Daydreamer 03-28-07, 06:26 PM	I notice that night hags do not advance via class levels, wereas regular hags do...thats wierd...