Help with augmentation, [Archive] - Wizards Community

Help with augmentation, [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Tomovasky
12-11-07, 08:25 PM Ok so I have a new player who is playing the first artificer I have hade in a game, he is creative type and I do not want to tell him no on all his use for the augmentation spell, but he keep coming with things overpowered things in my mind… well at least for a first Lv caster. In another form of mine he has a armor that can heal infinity for the spell time. Also he has a bow that can summon a celestial eagle multiple times with a extra hit dice and +1 to attacks (and by have I mean is trying to pass the ideas). Now his justification is the GP Limit the spells description gives and using that to figure how many spell it should hold and giving it such abilities with limits to try to make it fair ( for the bow he can only use it 10 time in the spell limit and the 1 eagle at the time ) My thing is I see these augmentation should be +1, flaming, frost, I don’t want to stick him to the only what is in the list in the books, I want him to feel like he can use his creativity. So were is the middle ground?
Kinger
12-12-07, 12:47 AM Ok so I have a new player who is playing the first artificer I have hade in a game, he is creative type and I do not want to tell him no on all his use for the augmentation spell, but he keep coming with things overpowered things in my mind… well at least for a first Lv caster. In another form of mine he has a armor that can heal infinity for the spell time. Also he has a bow that can summon a celestial eagle multiple times with a extra hit dice and +1 to attacks (and by have I mean is trying to pass the ideas). Now his justification is the GP Limit the spells description gives and using that to figure how many spell it should hold and giving it such abilities with limits to try to make it fair ( for the bow he can only use it 10 time in the spell limit and the 1 eagle at the time ) My thing is I see these augmentation should be +1, flaming, frost, I don’t want to stick him to the only what is in the list in the books, I want him to feel like he can use his creativity. So were is the middle ground?

There is no middle ground. There's only your ground.

Personally, I would limit him to what is published. There are already a number of options already available to the Artificer that would usually be passed over, such as armor of Etherealness or Undead Controlling, or weapons of (Insert Creature) Bane.

What he's asking for, a bow that summons an eagle or whatever, is really asking too much compared to what other options the Artificer has. I direct him to Spell Storing Item, an infusion that lets an Artificer make a single-use wand out of an item, with an XP cost based on the spell level and what not. If he wants an eagle, he can whip out Spell Storing Item and have it cast Summon Nature's Ally or Summon Monster.

Customization to the extent he's asking for is a bit much. The ultimate-customization enhancement, Spell Storing Enhancement, has that sort of thing covered already and has the necessary costs associated with it. Personal Weapon Augmentation et al have very specific things they can do.

If he feels confined by this, direct him to the Magic Item Compendium. Yes, it's another book and they ain't cheap, but inside is all manner of item enhancements to imbue when you want them.

Besides, the things he's asking for (summon monsters, etc) are really the perview of Wonderous Items or Wands or the like, not Weapon Enhancements.
Kreistor2
12-12-07, 03:49 AM The bow would use the normal rules for magic item creation. Let's back it off to just a normal MM eagle instead of hsi 2HD variant. We're looking at a Wondrous Item that can use "Summon Nature's Ally I" X number of times per day.

We'll make it Command Word activated. That comes to SL x CL x 1800 = 1 x 1 x 1800 = 1800GP. To convert that into a Use per Day item, then you would multiply that by the desired number of uses and divide by 5, or 360GP x (uses/day). So, if he wants 3 uses/day, it's 1080GP. Now that puts it on a normal wondrous item. There is a downside: Summon Nature's Ally has a duration of 1 round/CL, so the eagle will only be around for 1 round. If he wants it around for a minute, then he's looking at 10800GP for three uses per day.

If he wants to put it on a bow and also enchant that bow, then you need to multiply the cost by another 50%, for 540GP x (uses/day), or 5400 for 1 minute summons.

He wants to increase the HD to 2HD. This normally comes with BAB 1, BTW, since animals have 3/4 BAB like a cleric or rogue.

Now, personally, I never want to see a character summoning a flock of eagles. I would never let this item have more than one eagle in the air at a time.

I highly doubt he costed the item this way.

Now, I can't comment on the augmentation or the healing items without more specifics, but I can say that infinite healing is infinitely expensive. Unless you gave him the item as loot, he shouldn't have been able to buy it. Get me more specifics, and I'll figure out what it should cost.

As an example of healing items and how much they are worth, look at the Ring of Regeneration. Healing is expensive!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Tomovasky 12-11-07, 08:25 PM	Ok so I have a new player who is playing the first artificer I have hade in a game, he is creative type and I do not want to tell him no on all his use for the augmentation spell, but he keep coming with things overpowered things in my mind… well at least for a first Lv caster. In another form of mine he has a armor that can heal infinity for the spell time. Also he has a bow that can summon a celestial eagle multiple times with a extra hit dice and +1 to attacks (and by have I mean is trying to pass the ideas). Now his justification is the GP Limit the spells description gives and using that to figure how many spell it should hold and giving it such abilities with limits to try to make it fair ( for the bow he can only use it 10 time in the spell limit and the 1 eagle at the time ) My thing is I see these augmentation should be +1, flaming, frost, I don’t want to stick him to the only what is in the list in the books, I want him to feel like he can use his creativity. So were is the middle ground?
Kinger 12-12-07, 12:47 AM	Ok so I have a new player who is playing the first artificer I have hade in a game, he is creative type and I do not want to tell him no on all his use for the augmentation spell, but he keep coming with things overpowered things in my mind… well at least for a first Lv caster. In another form of mine he has a armor that can heal infinity for the spell time. Also he has a bow that can summon a celestial eagle multiple times with a extra hit dice and +1 to attacks (and by have I mean is trying to pass the ideas). Now his justification is the GP Limit the spells description gives and using that to figure how many spell it should hold and giving it such abilities with limits to try to make it fair ( for the bow he can only use it 10 time in the spell limit and the 1 eagle at the time ) My thing is I see these augmentation should be +1, flaming, frost, I don’t want to stick him to the only what is in the list in the books, I want him to feel like he can use his creativity. So were is the middle ground? There is no middle ground. There's only your ground. Personally, I would limit him to what is published. There are already a number of options already available to the Artificer that would usually be passed over, such as armor of Etherealness or Undead Controlling, or weapons of (Insert Creature) Bane. What he's asking for, a bow that summons an eagle or whatever, is really asking too much compared to what other options the Artificer has. I direct him to Spell Storing Item, an infusion that lets an Artificer make a single-use wand out of an item, with an XP cost based on the spell level and what not. If he wants an eagle, he can whip out Spell Storing Item and have it cast Summon Nature's Ally or Summon Monster. Customization to the extent he's asking for is a bit much. The ultimate-customization enhancement, Spell Storing Enhancement, has that sort of thing covered already and has the necessary costs associated with it. Personal Weapon Augmentation et al have very specific things they can do. If he feels confined by this, direct him to the Magic Item Compendium. Yes, it's another book and they ain't cheap, but inside is all manner of item enhancements to imbue when you want them. Besides, the things he's asking for (summon monsters, etc) are really the perview of Wonderous Items or Wands or the like, not Weapon Enhancements.
Kreistor2 12-12-07, 03:49 AM	The bow would use the normal rules for magic item creation. Let's back it off to just a normal MM eagle instead of hsi 2HD variant. We're looking at a Wondrous Item that can use "Summon Nature's Ally I" X number of times per day. We'll make it Command Word activated. That comes to SL x CL x 1800 = 1 x 1 x 1800 = 1800GP. To convert that into a Use per Day item, then you would multiply that by the desired number of uses and divide by 5, or 360GP x (uses/day). So, if he wants 3 uses/day, it's 1080GP. Now that puts it on a normal wondrous item. There is a downside: Summon Nature's Ally has a duration of 1 round/CL, so the eagle will only be around for 1 round. If he wants it around for a minute, then he's looking at 10800GP for three uses per day. If he wants to put it on a bow and also enchant that bow, then you need to multiply the cost by another 50%, for 540GP x (uses/day), or 5400 for 1 minute summons. He wants to increase the HD to 2HD. This normally comes with BAB 1, BTW, since animals have 3/4 BAB like a cleric or rogue. Now, personally, I never want to see a character summoning a flock of eagles. I would never let this item have more than one eagle in the air at a time. I highly doubt he costed the item this way. Now, I can't comment on the augmentation or the healing items without more specifics, but I can say that infinite healing is infinitely expensive. Unless you gave him the item as loot, he shouldn't have been able to buy it. Get me more specifics, and I'll figure out what it should cost. As an example of healing items and how much they are worth, look at the Ring of Regeneration. Healing is expensive!