Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Nerdicus 04-04-07, 02:13 PM	I was reading over the Dragonshard articles about the Dhakaani and saw that it spoke of the Hoboblin Cavalry which got me thinking; what would they ride? Horse is of course the first to spring to mind, but I feel it must be discarded for something more uniquley...goblinoid and Dhakaani-esque. The goblins get to ride wolfs, and have a clan dedicated to that, so I figure the hobgoblins should get an extra cool mount too. Any ideas? Edit: Just after posting I got the idea of a Dire wolf as a possability. Bigger badder meaner.
Cambian00 04-04-07, 02:34 PM	I think that Dire Wolf is appropriate as well..
arjomanes 04-04-07, 05:08 PM	I'm not so sure about wolves and dire wolves, just because it's been done so much. It's fine and all, but it's what everyone expects goblinoids to ride. I like the idea of a specially-bred heavy warhorse. The Valenar have their fast light riding horses and warhorses. I think hobgoblin cavalry riding in formations of heavy cavalry would nicely augment the infantry forces. Not very exotic, but it helps reinforce that Eberron hobgoblins are not your typical goblinoids.
Sylvaroth 04-04-07, 05:22 PM	Greater barghests and large were-worgs?
goblin_pride 04-04-07, 07:34 PM	Greater barghests and large were-worgs? And what's wrong with having the Dhakaani hobgoblins ride advanced hit die wolves? I realize they're not as fantastic or terribly different from their goblin cousins on regular wolves but it prevents a bit of the mounts turning on their riders. For a twist I give the mounts bred by the Taarka'khesh the magebred qualities as a freebie. It makes the silent wolves a bit more on par with the Valenar and doesn't overbalance them too much. As far as cavalry goes, I don't use hobgoblin cavalry*. The heavy infantry is where the hobgobs shine. Heavily armored, slow moving, but able to crush any defense under their plated boots. For an assault on a stronghold you want bugbears breaking through and scattering inside the enemy's defenses, but on the battlefield the regimented hobgoblin units will win the day. Goblin cavalry will scatter an enemy's archers so that the hobgoblins can crush any army on the field. Hobgoblins are best when their ability to form up strong regiments can be put to best use. I alone am nothing. My shield will protect me, but it is best used to protect the Dhakaani next to me, for he would do the same. My spear can kill one enemy, but my brothers' spears can form a wall of death that nothing can cross. My boots make little sound by themselves, but the footfalls of all my brothers will shake the world. I am Dhakaani, I am one of many. Strength in numbers, unity in purpose, glory in conquest, you will kneel or we will force you to your knees, for we are the Dhakaani. Our emperor would have your answer, will you resist? *the cavalry I do use for the Dhakaani goblinoids would be considered light or irregular at best. Goblin scouts form up to form the cavalry component of the armies so it's more like a massed group of individual combatants rather than a strictly regimented cavalry unit. Having huge numbers of individual small units makes the cavalry extremely difficult to control from one side or to defend against for the other. Picture it this way, on the battlefield you'd have multiple small units of light cavalry running amok in the backfield of the defending army trying to cause small amounts of damage over a wide swath of the defending army, while attempting to take out units like archers and engineers.
DragoonDarkfire 04-04-07, 07:55 PM	And what's wrong with having the Dhakaani hobgoblins ride advanced hit die wolves? I realize they're not as fantastic or terribly different from their goblin cousins on regular wolves but it prevents a bit of the mounts turning on their riders. For a twist I give the mounts bred by the Taarka'khesh the magebred qualities as a freebie. It makes the silent wolves a bit more on par with the Valenar and doesn't overbalance them too much. As far as cavalry goes, I don't use hobgoblin cavalry*. The heavy infantry is where the hobgobs shine. Heavily armored, slow moving, but able to crush any defense under their plated boots. For an assault on a stronghold you want bugbears breaking through and scattering inside the enemy's defenses, but on the battlefield the regimented hobgoblin units will win the day. Goblin cavalry will scatter an enemy's archers so that the hobgoblins can crush any army on the field. Hobgoblins are best when their ability to form up strong regiments can be put to best use. I alone am nothing. My shield will protect me, but it is best used to protect the Dhakaani next to me, for he would do the same. My spear can kill one enemy, but my brothers' spears can form a wall of death that nothing can cross. My boots make little sound by themselves, but the footfalls of all my brothers will shake the world. I am Dhakaani, I am one of many. Strength in numbers, unity in purpose, glory in conquest, you will kneel or we will force you to your knees, for we are the Dhakaani. Our emperor would have your answer, will you resist? *the cavalry I do use for the Dhakaani goblinoids would be considered light or irregular at best. Goblin scouts form up to form the cavalry component of the armies so it's more like a massed group of individual combatants rather than a strictly regimented cavalry unit. Having huge numbers of individual small units makes the cavalry extremely difficult to control from one side or to defend against for the other. Picture it this way, on the battlefield you'd have multiple small units of light cavalry running amok in the backfield of the defending army trying to cause small amounts of damage over a wide swath of the defending army, while attempting to take out units like archers and engineers. Sounds suspiciously like Spartans if you ask me.
goblin_pride 04-04-07, 08:13 PM	Sounds suspiciously like Spartans if you ask me. A strictly regimented, highly militarized society that serves it's leaders without question and conquers against vastly larger numbers? Sounds like these Spartans are based on the Dhakaani, Manling.
DragoonDarkfire 04-04-07, 08:27 PM	A strictly regimented, highly militarized society that serves it's leaders without question and conquers against vastly larger numbers? Sounds like these Spartans are based on the Dhakaani, Manling. HEY! You lost your great empire to madness, LITERALLY!
goblin_pride 04-04-07, 08:30 PM	HEY! You lost your great empire to madness, LITERALLY! Hmm, held it against the Valenar though, didn't we, Manling? Can Cyre say the same? Oh, that's right, they managed to destroy their entire kingdom somehow.
DragoonDarkfire 04-04-07, 08:42 PM	Hmm, held it against the Valenar though, didn't we, Manling? Can Cyre say the same? Oh, that's right, they managed to destroy their entire kingdom somehow. For one thing good sir I am not a "manling" my preferred term is "Raksha-"... I mean "Human" and frankly your petty "Dahakanni" was but a child's fort compared to the power that my ki-... the Raja's held over almost the entire world for over a million years. And that "Mournland" would be but a summer vacation for us- them.
goblin_pride 04-04-07, 09:03 PM	For one thing good sir I am not a "manling" my preferred term is "Raksha-"... I mean "Human" and frankly your petty "Dahakanni" was but a child's fort compared to the power that my ki-... the Raja's held over almost the entire world for over a million years. And that "Mournland" would be but a summer vacation for us- them. And they lost it to a handful of upstart lizards, as I recall.
DragoonDarkfire 04-04-07, 09:19 PM	And they lost it to a handful of upstart lizards, as I recall. We- THEY lost to a collection of pure good souls that imprisoned our- THEIR greatest lords beneath the earth. But even the mightiest lock can be picked if you have the proper tools...
Wymarc 04-04-07, 09:53 PM	But even the mightiest lock can be picked if you have the proper tools... Even if it takes a few millenia....
Sylvaroth 04-05-07, 07:17 AM	Worghest Size/Type: Large Magical Beast (Shapechanger) Hit Dice: 8d10+28 (76 hp) Initiative: +2 Speed: 60 ft. (12 squares) Armor Class: 15 (+2 Dex, +4 natural, -1 size), touch 11, flat-footed 13 Base Attack/Grapple: +8/+21 Attack: Bite +16 melee (1d8+9) Full Attack: Bite +16 melee (1d8+9) and 2 claw +11 melee (1d6+4) Space/Reach: 10 ft./5 ft. Special Attacks: Trip, spell-like abilities, barghest touch Special Qualities: Change shape, damage reduction 2/magic, darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision, scent Saves: Fort +12, Ref +10, Will +5 Abilities: Str 28, Dex 15, Con 19, Int 8, Wis 16, Cha 12 Skills: Hide +0, Listen +7, Move Silently +7, Spot +8, Survival +2*. Feats: Alertness, Power Attack, Track Environment: Warm plains and hills Organization: Solitary, pair, or pack (6-11) Challenge Rating: 8 Treasure: Double standard Alignment: Usually lawful evil Advancement: 9-12 HD (Large) Level Adjustment: +9 (?) The creature charging at you, first appeared to be an unarmed hobgoblin warrior clad in finely crafted black chainmail. But as it drops to all fours, it starts to change dramatically, growing quickly to the size of a horse. The last thing you see is a brief glimpse of a horrifying whirl of fur, sharp claws, and fangs, and all of a sudden your world starts to fade out. Worghests are the result of fiendish crossbreeding. Though their natural form resembles that of a large wolf, their blood bears the taint of the lupine fiends known as barghests, thus providing them with the spark of intelligence and a set of infernal powers. Worghests sometimes associate with other evil beings, particularly hobgoblins, whom they serve as mounts and allies in combat. A typical worghest has jet black fur, grows about 8 feet long and stands about 4-1/2 feet at the shoulders. It weighs about 500 pounds. Worghests speak Goblin and Common. COMBAT Barghest Touch (Su): Once per day, when the worghest succeeds on a bite or claw attack, the attack deals normal damage, but the worghest gains temporary hit points equal to the damage dealt. The temporary hit points disappear 1 hour later. Change Shape (Su): A worghest can assume the shape of a hobgoblin as a standard action. In hobgoblin form, a worghest cannot use its natural weapons but can wield weapons and wear armor. Pass Without Trace (Ex): A worghest can use pass without trace (as the spell) as a free action. Trip (Ex): A worghest that hits with a bite attack can attempt to trip the opponent (+8 check modifier) as a free action without making a touch attack or provoking an attack of opportunity. If the attempt fails, the opponent cannot react to trip the worghest. Spell-Like Abilities: At will—rage (DC 13); 1/day—crushing despair (DC 15). Caster level equals the worghest’s HD. The save DCs are Charisma-based. Skills: A worghest has a +1 racial bonus on Listen, Move Silently, and Spot checks, and a +2 racial bonus on Hide checks. *A worghest has a +4 racial bonus on Survival checks when tracking by scent. Can you say fiendish were-worg? :D
goblin_pride 04-05-07, 08:22 AM	The only real problem I could see with using Barghests or something similar would be their origin isn't native to Eberron and they're kind of the bogey-man to the goblin culture. Think about it, it looks like a goblin, it turns into a wolf, it can basically teleport itself into your house and it comes from Mabar, the endless night, not exactly something I would want to try to train.
goblin_pride 04-05-07, 08:28 AM	Worghests sometimes associate with other evil beings, particularly hobgoblins, whom they serve as mounts and allies in combat. Not to pick nits, but would you please read pg 154 of the ECS and tell me the alignment of the hobgoblins that are presented there. The OP was asking about mounts for the Dhakaani hobgoblins and there isn't an evil one mentioned. As a matter of fact, there isn't a hobgoblin mentioned on that entire page that isn't Neutral, with the bulk of them being Lawful Neutral.
Sylvaroth 04-05-07, 09:10 AM	The only real problem I could see with using Barghests or something similar would be their origin isn't native to Eberron and they're kind of the bogey-man to the goblin culture. Think about it, it looks like a goblin, it turns into a wolf, it can basically teleport itself into your house and it comes from Mabar, the endless night, not exactly something I would want to try to train. Fighting fire with fire? Looking at the way Eberron works, I don't see even a minor problem. Why is fighting alongside outsiders from the Endless Night and using them to create a more powerful and lethal breed of war mount any less likely than enslaving sentient incarnations of elemental planes or the creation of twisted and horrid animals? Btw. it's highly unlikely a worghest (ECL 17/CR 8) will be found in scores amongst the Dhakaani forces. It's more likely to encounter them in special strike forces and elite units, probably as the mount of e.g. a high-level Dhakaani Paladin. Not to pick nits, but would you please read pg 154 of the ECS and tell me the alignment of the hobgoblins that are presented there. The OP was asking about mounts for the Dhakaani hobgoblins and there isn't an evil one mentioned. As a matter of fact, there isn't a hobgoblin mentioned on that entire page that isn't Neutral, with the bulk of them being Lawful Neutral. You talk about Eberron and want to argue about alignment? :D Seriously, for a Core game its LE, while in Eberron it would most likely be N or LN, to fit this settings concept of goblinoids. Also, if you REALLY want to fit it into Eberron's flavor, I suggest to keep the LE alignment and make the worghests the longtime tool of the Mabarian forces. While, on the one hand, they were sent to aid the Dhakaani to reclaim their lost greatness, and establish their rule over all sentient races of Eberron. They are, on the other hand, the perfect spies and infiltrators. Once the New-Dhakaani Empire has been established all those sleepers and other worghests in strategic places of the court and the armies jump into action. Within a matter of days Korvaire is ready to be taken over by forces from the Endless Night. No blood shedding, no war, most people won't even notice the change and the dawning Age of Night. :cool:
goblin_pride 04-05-07, 10:27 AM	Why is fighting alongside outsiders from the Endless Night and using them to create a more powerful and lethal breed of war mount any less likely than enslaving sentient incarnations of elemental planes or the creation of twisted and horrid animals? No offense, but do you even play Eberron? The very fact that the Dhakaani empire crumbled because of a planar incursion makes it very, very unlikely that they would even consider help from an extraplanar source. Even if they did, do you think they would accept a creature that was a changed form of something else? Considering they lost the empire in the aftermath of fighting creatures that had a tendency to warp normal creatures into abominations from the deepest, darkest part of the nightmares of all the Dhakaani I would think it highly unlikely.
Nerdicus 04-05-07, 12:14 PM	I picture the hobgoblins as having a heavy cavalry. Armored horses in discaplined ranks riding into the fray like a wall of armored flesh. They would be the shock troopers to tear into the enemy flank and ride through their forces while the infantry hold the enemy in tight muddled forms and the goblin support harries them from affar. Much like the heavey cavalry from the Jack Whyte books about King Arthur. If you have never read them, you should. First book is called the Skystone and it rules. A great historical look at the roman empire around the year of 342 AD.
Nerdicus 04-05-07, 12:16 PM	I would also like to say that I aggree with Goblin Pride in his statement that the new Dhakaani empire would most likely see a place for all the races( save those who appose them) in their empire. As long as the other races were fine with bowing down to the empire and it's law, they would be assimilated into the forces, and their tactics would be refined and implimented as well. At least that is how I intend to use the Dhakaani empire.
DragoonDarkfire 04-05-07, 12:24 PM	Then what's with all this slavery in Darguun?
Darth Syntax 04-05-07, 12:56 PM	War captives, criminals, the destitute and the lost. Slavery has no necessary racial component, and it doesn't for either the historical or the modern Dhakaani. Your defeated foes are likely to end up as your slaves, as are those who cannot afford to maintain their freedom. If one is up to their eyeballs in debt (either in money, in property, or in deeds) then it is not unlikely that you will be sold into slavery or that you might sell yourself to help pay off the debt. "Trespassers" into the territory are also likely to find themselves as slaves.
Sylvaroth 04-05-07, 02:42 PM	No offense, but do you even play Eberron? The very fact that the Dhakaani empire crumbled because of a planar incursion makes it very, very unlikely that they would even consider help from an extraplanar source. No offense taken. I take it, however, your statement was meant as a rhetoric question. In Eberron there is no place of black-or-white-thinking, it is a setting full of shades of gray. Lack of imagination is no excuse to exclude any idea. :D Even if they did, do you think they would accept a creature that was a changed form of something else? Again, horrid animals ;) Considering they lost the empire in the aftermath of fighting creatures that had a tendency to warp normal creatures into abominations from the deepest, darkest part of the nightmares of all the Dhakaani I would think it highly unlikely. Aren't nightmares from Dal Quor? It is Xoriat, the plane of horror and madness, where the daelkyr came from, right? Now another plane is Mabar, also known as the Endless Night, the plane where barghests live. Apart from not being material planes, those three have almost nothing in common. Also, going by your argumentation, I take it that Dhakaani characters are also highly unlikely to form adventuring groups or even alliances with Kalashtar?
AntiSean 04-05-07, 03:03 PM	In Eberron there is no place of black-or-white-thinking, it is a setting full of shades of gray. Silver Flame Inquisitors would beg to differ. ;)
Lancer2010 04-05-07, 03:48 PM	For what I am about to say, you have no one but yourselves to blame. -The last words said before the thousand legions of Xoriat overran the Dhakaani Empire- MADNESS?! THIS IS... DHAKAAN!!!
Sylvaroth 04-05-07, 03:53 PM	Silver Flame Inquisitors would beg to differ. ;) I am sure, but even inquisitors are known to stagger once in a while ;)
Nerdicus 04-05-07, 04:19 PM	When I say mounts for hobgoblin cavalry, we must remember that that means they would need huge numbers of them. Do you really think there would be that many willing Barghests out there? I don't think so personally. So far Dire Wolves or some sort of Dire Elk or something seems the most likely to me.
Sylvaroth 04-05-07, 05:09 PM	Ranging between CR 1 and 4 there are animated objects, bears (polar or brown), bisons or rhinos, dire bats, dire boars, dire wolves, griffons, lions or tigers, monstrous spiders or giant vermin. As far as I am concerned, hobgoblins riding bisons and/or rhinos seem pretty cool.
Sylvaroth 04-05-07, 05:33 PM	You might also like to take a look at Insane Pixie's Dinosaur Menagerie. Here are a few examples: Brontornis Dimetrodon Megantereon Stygimoloch Titanosuchus
Cifer 04-05-07, 05:35 PM	As far as I am concerned, hobgoblins riding bisons and/or rhinos seem pretty cool. Hobgoblins riding animated tables seem pretty cool, too! About that planar stuff, I'd agree with Goblin_Pride (the source for everything gobbo) - losing an empire tends to cool down relationships. Aren't nightmares from Dal Quor? It is Xoriat, the plane of horror and madness, where the daelkyr came from, right? I find it quite save to go here with the colloquial definition of Nightmare, which would be "damn horrifying" - and which fits both Dal'Quor and Xoriat. Now another plane is Mabar, also known as the Endless Night, the plane where barghests live. Apart from not being material planes, those three have almost nothing in common. How about "They're damn frightening"? From what few things I understand of hobgobs, building an empire on the backs of malicious creatures who might not even have the best interests of the plane in mind, much less those of you in particular, isn't exactly what they would like to do. Also, going by your argumentation, I take it that Dhakaani characters are also highly unlikely to form adventuring groups or even alliances with Kalashtar? If a Kalashtar directly says "Hi! I'm an amalgam of a nightmare spirit and a human soul, and I'm from the same plane as those guys who have enslaved half a continent" - then yes, I'd guess that relationships tend to become problematic. Of course, that would be the case with many other races too, which is why most people seem to know next to nothing about the Kalashtar except for "human-looking guys with psionic powers".
Sylvaroth 04-05-07, 06:04 PM	Hobgoblins riding animated tables seem pretty cool, too! Animated armored heavy war brooms :D About that planar stuff, I'd agree with Goblin_Pride (the source for everything gobbo) - losing an empire tends to cool down relationships. It does, but what if Mabar sent their spies during the daelkyr war or even before? Why would the Dhakaani turn their back on their allies, just because they happen to be from another plane, too? Would they also dismiss the help of celestials? I find it quite save to go here with the colloquial definition of Nightmare, which would be "damn horrifying" - and which fits both Dal'Quor and Xoriat. Namely the two planes that did (or in the first case are planning to) overtake large portions of the known world. Which Mabar didn't (yet :evillaugh) How about "They're damn frightening"? From what few things I understand of hobgobs, building an empire on the backs of malicious creatures who might not even have the best interests of the plane in mind, much less those of you in particular, isn't exactly what they would like to do. Who's asking/telling them? What good would a spy be anyways, if he ran around shouting: 'I'll betray you! I'll betray you! Lets be friends and I'll stab you in the back!' :dancin: If a Kalashtar directly says "Hi! I'm an amalgam of a nightmare spirit and a human soul, and I'm from the same plane as those guys who have enslaved half a continent" - then yes, I'd guess that relationships tend to become problematic. Of course, that would be the case with many other races too, which is why most people seem to know next to nothing about the Kalashtar except for "human-looking guys with psionic powers". So what's the difference between that and "hobgoblin looking powerful allies with strange, but useful powers"?
Cifer 04-05-07, 06:20 PM	It does, but what if Mabar sent their spies during the daelkyr war or even before? Why would the Dhakaani turn their back on their allies, just because they happen to be from another plane, too? Would they also dismiss the help of celestials? Allies come and go - the Last War should have taught this. Don't you think that after the invasion, quite a lot of planar "allies" will have been seen in a rather different light? Namely the two planes that did (or in the first case are trying to) overtake large portions of the known world. Which Mabar didn't (yet ) See, that "yet" is exactly my problem. You don't have to be that well-versed in planar knowledge to arrive at the very idea you just got. Who's asking them? What good would a spy be, if he ran around shouting: 'I'll betray you! I'll betray you! Lets be friends and I'll stab you in the back!' What 'them' do you mean? The hobgoblins? In that case, asking them is the point of the whole thing, since we're discussing their cavalry. So what's the difference between that and "hobgoblin looking powerful allies with strange, but useful powers"? More thorough background checks. An empire or nation can afford peeking into their allies' CVs a lot better than adventuring groups. Guess what would happen if the Kalashtar tried to ally themselves with e.g. one of the five nations.
Moosh Nailo 04-05-07, 06:36 PM	Axebeaks.
Sylvaroth 04-05-07, 06:36 PM	Allies come and go - the Last War should have taught this. Don't you think that after the invasion, quite a lot of planar "allies" will have been seen in a rather different light? Sure, but my point remains valid. An ally who helped a great deal to support my most powerful forces would have a trust bonus IMO. See, that "yet" is exactly my problem. You don't have to be that well-versed in planar knowledge to arrive at the very idea you just got. Only I can know things even the most well versed planologist wouldn't. While I agree that cross planar relationships might be examined very carefully, I still think that a fruitful relationship should be given some credit. What 'them' do you mean? The hobgoblins? In that case, asking them is the point of the whole thing, since we're discussing their cavalry. Why does it give you a headache to imagine those mounts could be more than mindless steeds without ambition? More thorough background checks. An empire or nation can afford peeking into their allies' CVs a lot better than adventuring groups. Guess what would happen if the Kalashtar tried to ally themselves with e.g. one of the five nations. So if the hobbos did a check in Mabar, what would they find out? Don't you think you could stash away amassing invasion troops pretty efficiently in a plane that is called the Endless Night, simultaneously showing those Dhakaani ambassadors just what they are supposed to see?
goblin_pride 04-05-07, 06:40 PM	It does, but what if Mabar sent their spies during the daelkyr war or even before? Why would the Dhakaani turn their back on their allies, just because they happen to be from another plane, too? Would they also dismiss the help of celestials? I would imagine the Dhakaani would take the same course of action the Gatekeeper sect would. A simple, "no thanks, you can go home now", would be about the warmest a planar ally could expect at the conclusion of the Daelkyr war. As a matter of fact, in my campaign, the gatekeeper sect is the only real contact that the Dhakaani remnants have had with the outside world since their retreat until just recently. The Dhakaani refused even the gods a place in the rulership of the empire, I can't see them accepting aid from any extraplanar source, especially if they know it's not from Eberron. The empire was built by Dhakaani might, they used Dhakaani muscle to conquer and build. They used Dhakaani ingenuity when mere muscle wouldn't suffice. They used unity and a common purpose to build an empire that spanned Khorvaire. If a celestial came rushing in to "help", the Dhakaani would be just as likely to kill it for the insult to the greatness of their empire as to simply tell it "No."
goblin_pride 04-05-07, 06:46 PM	Only I can know things even the most well versed planologist wouldn't. While I agree that cross planar relationships might be examined very carefully, I still think that a fruitful relationship should be given some credit. Did you look at the timeline? The only culture that really shared the continent with the Dhakaani was the orc. Strangely enough, the source of most planar information comes from the Gatekeeper sect, that at the time was wholly orc. A Dhakaani would be far quicker to accept an orc over some strange outsider, simply because the orcs have been their neighbors for all of their recorded history. And did you forget that Mabar is the source of the bulk of the things that go bump in the night?
mightyix 04-05-07, 06:51 PM	Much like the heavey cavalry from the Jack Whyte books about King Arthur. If you have never read them, you should. First book is called the Skystone and it rules. A great historical look at the roman empire around the year of 342 AD. Arthur, if he existed at all, existed in the late 4th, early to mid 5th century. The only reliable texts from the period that come close to mentioning him directly are Bede's Ecclesiastical History (From about 800), and Gildas' Ruin of Britain from mid-late 5th century. Your historically "accurate" _novels_ strike me (an historian of Early Medieval History) as amusing. I have no doubt that the author is doing a good job of plausibility, but merely putting Arthur in the mid 4th century stretches "accuracy". Just out of curiosity though, what is the equipment that he gives them?
RedRobe 04-05-07, 07:54 PM	How about Dire Boars? Check out the Thundertusk Cavalry mini in the Bloodwar set. Just replace the Dwarf with a Hobgoblin and there ya go.
Nerdicus 04-05-07, 09:26 PM	Quote: Originally Posted by Cifer About that planar stuff, I'd agree with Goblin_Pride (the source for everything gobbo) - losing an empire tends to cool down relationships. It does, but what if Mabar sent their spies during the daelkyr war or even before? Why would the Dhakaani turn their back on their allies, just because they happen to be from another plane, too? Would they also dismiss the help of celestials? Quote: Quote: Originally Posted by Nerdicus View Post Much like the heavey cavalry from the Jack Whyte books about King Arthur. If you have never read them, you should. First book is called the Skystone and it rules. A great historical look at the roman empire around the year of 342 AD. Arthur, if he existed at all, existed in the late 4th, early to mid 5th century. The only reliable texts from the period that come close to mentioning him directly are Bede's Ecclesiastical History (From about 800), and Gildas' Ruin of Britain from mid-late 5th century. Your historically "accurate" _novels_ strike me (an historian of Early Medieval History) as amusing. I have no doubt that the author is doing a good job of plausibility, but merely putting Arthur in the mid 4th century stretches "accuracy". Just out of curiosity though, what is the equipment that he gives them? Actually, the book starts out a few generations before Arthur was born. And it is quite a believable concept for how the legend came to pass. It is less about Arthur and the Knights of the Round and more about what transpired to make it possible. Regardless of the historical accuracy, the book portrays the use of heavy cavalry quite nicely. But it is pretty accurate. With a bit of searching I found that the book starts in the fifth centurary. Again, it starts out a few generations before Arthur. It brings into account the fall of the roman empire and how england(not at th time called that though) survived. It is in this vaccuum that the authur sets the stage for the epic tale of King Arthur. About the equipment...well it starts out with the main characters in the Roman empire, so they would have had standard roman infantry gear. As the main charcter get older, new weapons and armor are brought into account as they change their designs to fit the situation. The Cavalry doesn't come into play until the second or third book. You should check it out if you are into that sort of thing. Even if you found it inaccurate, I believe you can at least find some fun in the story itself. But we digress....
DragoonDarkfire 04-05-07, 09:47 PM	Okay about the whole "Dahakanni hating outsiders" thing. The empire was DESTROYED by the daelkyr and it existed a lot longer then just to fight the daelkyr and their horrors. They could have been using these Barg things for like THOUSANDS of years. They could have actually had good relations with several different outsiders who just decided not to bother with their empire. Only Xoriat's insane world was the one that actually wanted to destroy them.
Cifer 04-05-07, 10:04 PM	@Dragoon Sure - Ancient Dhakaan will have summoned outsiders like everyone else did. However, we're mainly talking about modern Dhakaan, in which better safe than sorry again means no contact to outsiders apart from the unavoidable.
sk600 04-05-07, 10:15 PM	I would have them use a war trained version of the giant antelope the goblins use as beasts of burden. I can't remember what they are called, but there is a picture on p157 of the ECS of what I am talking about, and they have been briefly noted in at least one of the novels (last Dragon Below book I think) They are already domesticated and are only used by the goblins of Darguun. Stat wise, I would just use the stats of a heavy war horse with a gore attack instead of hooves.
Cifer 04-05-07, 10:23 PM	Stat wise, I would just use the stats of a heavy war horse with a gore attack instead of hooves. I'd up their strength and constitution a little - those things look a little meaner than horses, even heavy ones.
DragoonDarkfire 04-05-07, 10:29 PM	@Dragoon Sure - Ancient Dhakaan will have summoned outsiders like everyone else did. However, we're mainly talking about modern Dhakaan, in which better safe than sorry again means no contact to outsiders apart from the unavoidable. This could just be me but frankly the dhakaan strike me as more "Uphold traditions of our ancient empire" then "let's worry about every single piece of crap that resembles the stuff that brought DOWN our ancient empire". I mean let's face it. The dahkaani aren't ones to simply avoid something because it has a minor semblance to daelkyr and their ancient creations. If that were true then all goblins would run in fear or try to kill every changeling they find cause they would be "suspect" as one of the daelkyrs horrid creations. The Goblins are a fearless and proud race. They aren't going to instinctively strike out something as being completely evil, to be feared or destroyed. Unless they actually have a direct connection with something that wants to destroy them. You might wanna remember also that it's said that only high ranking Dahakanni paladins (or fighters, whatever) actually use them as mounts. Any Goblin with that many class levels would be knowledgeable enough to know that Barghests don't have any connection with Xoriat.
goblin_pride 04-05-07, 11:01 PM	You might wanna remember also that it's said that only high ranking Dahakanni paladins (or fighters, whatever) actually use them as mounts. Any Goblin with that many class levels would be knowledgeable enough to know that Barghests don't have any connection with Xoriat. Yeah, but they might also know that barghests might just pop out of their pens and eat a couple citizens too. Just a thought, but I don't think knights in shinig armor would want to ride a creature that feeds on his own people's population.
DragoonDarkfire 04-05-07, 11:10 PM	Yeah, but they might also know that barghests might just pop out of their pens and eat a couple citizens too. Just a thought, but I don't think knights in shinig armor would want to ride a creature that feeds on his own people's population. Aren't these creatures lawful evil? I'd think Paladins (unless you're talking about Blackguards or Paladins of Tyranny) wouldn't ride evil mounts, that's why I said fighters as well. And even an (evil) hobgoblin knows that regular goblins are just cannon fodder.
goblin_pride 04-06-07, 12:21 AM	And even an (evil) hobgoblin knows that regular goblins are just cannon fodder. As I pointed out earlier, the Dhakaani seem to be primarily neutral in alignment.
Joni-san 04-06-07, 05:15 PM	How come no one has mentioned Tribex in this thread?
Nerdicus 04-06-07, 09:48 PM	Tribex is totally the mount!! Picture of line of them charging into battle, horns pointed at the enemy, and with armored spear weilding hobgoblins astride them. When they hit the front line the Tribexs flick their heads up as their horns skewer the enemy, flinging the enemy into the air. THe hobgoblins then stab the next in line. man! Perfect.
Romulus LoneWolf 04-06-07, 10:54 PM	While I have no doubt that the Goblinoids would hold the humble, efficient Infantry in high regard, I also don't doubt that smart Hobgoblin generals would pick up on the usefulness of a solid Cavalry charge. And while Wolf-riders are cool, economically, horses would be more viable for large cavalry units.
UnderworldLord 04-06-07, 11:45 PM	I'm entertaining the concept that the Valenar brought horses, as I belive has been mentioned earlier. Wolves make the typical goblin a good mount for scouting and moving around the enemy's flanks and rear, cutting a supply line here and there. They had Tribex's as beasts of burden, which I would prolly use bison stats for. Wolves also help with tracking, due to the scent ability. But what makes horses more economical? the fact that they eat grass, and you have to carry meat for wolves? Let me know when your bugbear troops become vegetarian.
goblin_pride 04-07-07, 10:34 AM	Let me know when your bugbear troops become vegetarian. Shh, I think they are in Darth Syntax's game.
Cromag 04-07-07, 05:13 PM	And while Wolf-riders are cool, economically, horses would be more viable for large cavalry units. The two main problems with wolves are. Meat is typically harder to develop than vegetation. using vegetable matter to create protein (meat) is about a 14/1 conversion rate, which has a lot to do with why meat isn't a huge part of peoples diets outside of affluent countries (like the US). The other big problem is that Wolves like most predators a fast over a short distance, but don't have great overland movement. It's well and good to be able to catch a member of a herd your wolf sneaks up on, but when you're moving en masse more then a hundred miles the wolf will get tired faster than a horse.
Cifer 04-07-07, 08:45 PM	Further, I'd deem meat to be harder to transport than feed for horses (if they are warhorses, you should most certainly not feed them grass). Either you've got to bring a herd along with you or you'd have to somehow keep the meat fresh. Both are not exactly practical.
Phalo 04-25-07, 01:15 PM	I think we are thinking to small. We are talking about an Empire(big very big) . The idea that they had one kind of mount is kinda crazy. If you picture a large land with various terrain you should assume they are gonna use the best mount for the area. although I personally fond of rhinos which would work well in forest and scrub plains (india used rhinos in war) dire boars dire wolves for temperate forests camels for deserts heavy war horse for plains or even elephant. musk ox dire horse mastodon for artic regions, A hobgoblin calvary would probably be extremely varied across the board but always formed up for the best enviroment they are in.
Alex_ 04-25-07, 04:32 PM	The two main problems with wolves are. Meat is typically harder to develop than vegetation. using vegetable matter to create protein (meat) is about a 14/1 conversion rate, which has a lot to do with why meat isn't a huge part of peoples diets outside of affluent countries (like the US). The other big problem is that Wolves like most predators a fast over a short distance, but don't have great overland movement. It's well and good to be able to catch a member of a herd your wolf sneaks up on, but when you're moving en masse more then a hundred miles the wolf will get tired faster than a horse. Perhaps that could be a reason why Dhakaani wouldn't rely so much on cavalry for their strategy, and such forces would be smaller relative to the number of ground troops compared to Valenar? The majority of Dhakaani military might comes from infantry. Cavalry is not as common and is more greatly relied on for other functions (where a Wolf's traits would be better put to use), as it's impractical to field larger and more dedicated mounted combat forces.
OgreBane99 04-27-07, 04:07 PM	Armored dire boars. They'd match the ferocity and battle-readiness of the Dhakaani. Worgs/woves/dire wolves are so...... orcish.
Ellorin 04-30-07, 03:30 AM	How about an aerial cavalry elite squad? Highly rare, superbly trained&equipped, used with caution.Griffons could work, or hippogryphs, or even yrthaks(alright, that might be somewhat excessive-I still like it though).
BadgerTheHarbringerOfDoom 05-04-07, 07:59 PM	I hate to be the wet blanket here, but hobgoblins ride Tribex which is a muscular variety of antelope with three horns I believe. And Dhaakhani commanders road Knell Beetles detailed in the MM3. They also would use dinosaurs and horses.
Benicus 05-04-07, 08:14 PM	Rhinocerous (Sp?) Warbeasts. Check the back of the MM2 and replace that Orc with a Hobgoblin, there ya go.
UnderworldLord 05-04-07, 08:53 PM	As far as I recall, there was never anything official on the Tribex, just a loose picture. That is, of course, iirc only, and I could have skimmed over something. Where do you get your information BadgerTheHarbringerOfDoom?
Dragom 05-04-07, 09:26 PM	Keeping herds of fresh animals to feed wolf mounts? Lets refer to the two domesticated carnivores Humans regularily keep. Cats, try eating a cat treat. It's a cracker soaked in blood and grease. Dogs, most of their food is grains flavoured with animal residue. And lets refer to the classic method of preserving meat. Jerky. Overland movement may be less then a horse but feeding them would be only slightly more expensive then bringing wagon loads of oats and hay. You can easily slink away with feeding the wolves a mash of grainmeal mixed with jerky. A brief unkindness easily made up for after the battle. Now that the goblins are mounted and the wolf's nice and fed let's move onto the Hobgoblins. We have to wedge in the cultural distinctiveness of Hobgoblins from Humans. the heavy Zyback does a good job. Though a preference to wagons and chariots is probably due to the standard method a Zyback would use to scratch under it's saddle.
crashbangboom 05-11-07, 10:01 AM	Why not use the ?thunder lizards?(Blue dragon spawn of tiamat) that arc lightning between themselves up to thirty feet away and grant their riders electric resistance 5. Even if they don't trample their enemies underfoot they still hit them with the elec as they charge past. :dragon: ===:ghosted:==:ghosted:==:ghosted:====== ==
snakebliskan 05-11-07, 10:32 AM	I have them use Horrid Dire Wolves with bykesh spiked barding. You can thank there druids for them...=)
Lyrandar 05-13-07, 09:58 PM	I thought this was pretty easy to figure out. 1 - You should take into account the Age of Monsters in the ECS. 2 - -38,000 Meanwhile on Khorvaire, the first of the Goblinoid kingdoms rises in the area that will one day become Breland and Darguun. 3 - - 300,000 Orc nation arise in western Khorvaire to compete with Goblinoid Kingdoms. 4 - - 16,000 The Dhakaani unite the Goblinoid nations to create the greatest empire the goblins have ever known. The Gatekeepers appear amongst the Orcs of western Khorvaire. 5 - - 9,000 The Daelkyr War descimates the Western Reaches of Khorvaire. Now considering all of these things it may well be possible to come to a conclusion that when the Gatekeepers came onto the scene in the Orc nations that the beliefs of them could of trickled across the border into the Goblin empire. At the very least when the Daelkyr destroyed much of western Khorvaire the fleeing orcs could of brought there beliefs into the Dhakaani empire. Seeing that the Gatekeepers where responsible for the creation of the horrid variants of animals to help protect Khorvaire from the Daelkyr it could be possible that that the Dhakaani Calvary was based around horrid variants of horses and that now in the present through the work of the Wordbearers of Darguun the lost history of this military tradition of using Horrid Horses as Heavy Cavalry has been rediscovered and that a breeding program has been established with the small pockets of wild herds left in Darguun.
Satori 05-17-07, 12:14 AM	I like the idea of Hobgoblin elite cavalry using something like a modified "War Elephant" as a mount. Imagine a mix of Elephant, Rhino, and Armadillo...all packed into Large sized mount.
beezl 05-18-07, 05:44 AM	not sure if it has been mentioned, but the steed of dhakaani is written up in the mm3
Lyrandar 05-19-07, 01:52 AM	You mean Knell Beetles. MMIII Pg 89. Very strange concept but it is written there in black and white. I'm not to fussed about it though as the picture for the Knell bettle is one of the few I dislike in the MMIII, also visualizing hobgoblins riding one doesn't really strike fear to me its more comical but that's just my opinion.
Teron Gorefiend 05-21-07, 02:11 AM	You mean Knell Beetles. MMIII Pg 89. Very strange concept but it is written there in black and white. I'm not to fussed about it though as the picture for the Knell bettle is one of the few I dislike in the MMIII, also visualizing hobgoblins riding one doesn't really strike fear to me its more comical but that's just my opinion. Eberron adaptations in other books suck and should be ignored. The warforged and rakshasa variants in the MM3 are exceptions, of course, since they were meant for Eberron in the first place, but every other attempt at adaptation is a load of crap and usually seems to deliberately contradict important elements of the setting. ... I'm tired and grouchy and you should probably have ignored me, but it's too late now. For the sake of being constructive, I'll suggest chariots pulled by tribex. ... Seriously, though. The "adaptations" in Expedition to the Demonweb Pits will make your eyes bleed.