Homunculus Crafting Cost Question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Homunculus Crafting Cost Question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Asok
05-24-07, 01:23 PM Hello Everyone -
I have somes questios concerning the GP and XP cost of creating a homunculus.

In the artificer section of the ECS, it says that to upgrade a homunculus, it says it costs 2000 GP and 160 XP per additional HD. But if you look at the various homunculi in the ECS, MM, or Magic of Eberron books, you'll notice that the cost to create a higher HD homunuculus is only 2000 GP per extra HD (no additional XP cost).

So, my question is the artificer section wrong or are the homunculus just missing the XP cost?

The only other thing I could think of is a slight difference in the way the two sections are worded. In the artificer section it says "upgrade" whereas in the homunculus sections it says "create."

So maybe it just meant to be that - If you make a homunculus with higher HD at creation, then you don't pay the extra XP. If you later decide to upgrade an existing homunculus, you have to use some XP beyond just the GP cost.

Thanks in advance.
Cifer
05-24-07, 04:21 PM The only other thing I could think of is a slight difference in the way the two sections are worded. In the artificer section it says "upgrade" whereas in the homunculus sections it says "create."

So maybe it just meant to be that - If you make a homunculus with higher HD at creation, then you don't pay the extra XP. If you later decide to upgrade an existing homunculus, you have to use some XP beyond just the GP cost.
I very much doubt that - in the entire item creation system, building a low-grad thingy and upgrading it is always exactly as costly as creating it from scratch.
Further, every magic item and every construct requires XP - I doubt it's reasonable to say "but not those".

So all in all, I'd expect that the line was forgotten in the homunculi entries.
Asok
05-24-07, 04:44 PM Thanks for the reply.

I agree that the homunculus having two costs (creation vs. upgrade) seems odd. I only threw that out there as a possibility.

It certainly seems much more likely that there's a plain mistake, but I checked the errata and there's no mention of it. Since the Monster Manual I came out long before the ECS, I think that it should take precedence, which means no XP cost upgrades.

I mean, what makes more sense - Just the ECS artificer section is wrong, or at least three other sources are wrong (ECS homunculus section, MMI, and Magic of Eberron)?

BUT.... That said, my DM side is a little concerned. I can see homunculus being really good and if the only limited factor is GP (XP is basically ignored), I wonder if the power and number of homunculus can get out of hand.

Anyway, thoughts and comments are appreciated.
Cifer
05-24-07, 05:08 PM I mean, what makes more sense - Just the ECS artificer section is wrong, or at least three other sources are wrong (ECS homunculus section, MMI, and Magic of Eberron)?
Since the three other sources probably just copied the text from each other, I'm not quite sure about that...

I've just taken a look at the paragraph. IMO, the most likely idea behind it is that it was obvious to the designers that adding gold would automatically mean expenditure of more XP - there's the rather simple formula of 25% market price (or, in the case of homunculi, 12,5% of the creation cost since there is no market value given) in XP which holds true for every magic item there is. After all, they don't say "Per hit dice, you need four more days of crafting" either.
Captain_Kobold
05-24-07, 09:02 PM I think the differences are in part due to the difference in the Artificer class ability to the craft construct feat, and part due to the writers making assumptions and missing out the clarification.

Cifer pretty much got it.

As far as I can tell, you cannot simply upgrade an existing construct: You can create one with more than the standard hit dice, but after that,it cannot be improved.
The cost to create the construct is the materials cost, plus the enchantment cost. I can't see any reason why the enchantment cost to add extra HD would not affect the XP cost or the time required. Its not a mistake that would need an errata: just not as precise as it could have been.

The Artificer class ability specifically allows an artificer to upgrade his homunculus: something not possible with Craft Construct. The costs are the same as adding hit dice in the creation stage. They were just a little more specific in the class entry. (It could be implied therefore that upgrading the homunculus does not require time, just money and XP if you really wanted to fudge things) :P
Asok
05-25-07, 02:31 PM Thanks for the replies. That really cleared it up for me - I can't believe I didn't notice that before. .02 (12.5%) of 2000 is 160 - duh :)

Thanks again.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Asok 05-24-07, 01:23 PM	Hello Everyone - I have somes questios concerning the GP and XP cost of creating a homunculus. In the artificer section of the ECS, it says that to upgrade a homunculus, it says it costs 2000 GP and 160 XP per additional HD. But if you look at the various homunculi in the ECS, MM, or Magic of Eberron books, you'll notice that the cost to create a higher HD homunuculus is only 2000 GP per extra HD (no additional XP cost). So, my question is the artificer section wrong or are the homunculus just missing the XP cost? The only other thing I could think of is a slight difference in the way the two sections are worded. In the artificer section it says "upgrade" whereas in the homunculus sections it says "create." So maybe it just meant to be that - If you make a homunculus with higher HD at creation, then you don't pay the extra XP. If you later decide to upgrade an existing homunculus, you have to use some XP beyond just the GP cost. Thanks in advance.
Cifer 05-24-07, 04:21 PM	The only other thing I could think of is a slight difference in the way the two sections are worded. In the artificer section it says "upgrade" whereas in the homunculus sections it says "create." So maybe it just meant to be that - If you make a homunculus with higher HD at creation, then you don't pay the extra XP. If you later decide to upgrade an existing homunculus, you have to use some XP beyond just the GP cost. I very much doubt that - in the entire item creation system, building a low-grad thingy and upgrading it is always exactly as costly as creating it from scratch. Further, every magic item and every construct requires XP - I doubt it's reasonable to say "but not those". So all in all, I'd expect that the line was forgotten in the homunculi entries.
Asok 05-24-07, 04:44 PM	Thanks for the reply. I agree that the homunculus having two costs (creation vs. upgrade) seems odd. I only threw that out there as a possibility. It certainly seems much more likely that there's a plain mistake, but I checked the errata and there's no mention of it. Since the Monster Manual I came out long before the ECS, I think that it should take precedence, which means no XP cost upgrades. I mean, what makes more sense - Just the ECS artificer section is wrong, or at least three other sources are wrong (ECS homunculus section, MMI, and Magic of Eberron)? BUT.... That said, my DM side is a little concerned. I can see homunculus being really good and if the only limited factor is GP (XP is basically ignored), I wonder if the power and number of homunculus can get out of hand. Anyway, thoughts and comments are appreciated.
Cifer 05-24-07, 05:08 PM	I mean, what makes more sense - Just the ECS artificer section is wrong, or at least three other sources are wrong (ECS homunculus section, MMI, and Magic of Eberron)? Since the three other sources probably just copied the text from each other, I'm not quite sure about that... I've just taken a look at the paragraph. IMO, the most likely idea behind it is that it was obvious to the designers that adding gold would automatically mean expenditure of more XP - there's the rather simple formula of 25% market price (or, in the case of homunculi, 12,5% of the creation cost since there is no market value given) in XP which holds true for every magic item there is. After all, they don't say "Per hit dice, you need four more days of crafting" either.
Captain_Kobold 05-24-07, 09:02 PM	I think the differences are in part due to the difference in the Artificer class ability to the craft construct feat, and part due to the writers making assumptions and missing out the clarification. Cifer pretty much got it. As far as I can tell, you cannot simply upgrade an existing construct: You can create one with more than the standard hit dice, but after that,it cannot be improved. The cost to create the construct is the materials cost, plus the enchantment cost. I can't see any reason why the enchantment cost to add extra HD would not affect the XP cost or the time required. Its not a mistake that would need an errata: just not as precise as it could have been. The Artificer class ability specifically allows an artificer to upgrade his homunculus: something not possible with Craft Construct. The costs are the same as adding hit dice in the creation stage. They were just a little more specific in the class entry. (It could be implied therefore that upgrading the homunculus does not require time, just money and XP if you really wanted to fudge things) :P
Asok 05-25-07, 02:31 PM	Thanks for the replies. That really cleared it up for me - I can't believe I didn't notice that before. .02 (12.5%) of 2000 is 160 - duh :) Thanks again.