I'm A newb to Ebberon, please help [Archive] - Wizards Community

I'm A newb to Ebberon, please help [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Dusk_Raider
12-06-07, 08:28 PM I've recently been considering switching from my usual Forgotten Realms setting to Ebberon, and I was all set to begin the change when I realized something: Out of all my players (I have 2) both are Drows. Drows and the Underdark are critical to the game I'm running, and I was just wondering if Ebberon has something at least similar to the Underdark and the Drow. Please don't say "Consult Page____of the Ebberon Campaign setting for answers", because I don't want to buy it if it's not going to be used.
AvonRekaes
12-06-07, 09:07 PM Eberron's Underdark is called "Khyber" and it is, according to myth, the body of an evil draconic overdeity. This can lead to all sorts of odd twists to Eberron's Underdark. For instance, "Khyber" might actually be considered to be a "layer" of the Material Plane, and the inside of the planet might be infinitely larger than the size of the planet itself.
Basically, if you want it to, Eberron's Khyber can be a combination of the Underdark and the Abyss.

As for Drow, there are drow in Eberron, but they are vastly different from FR drow. They aren't automatically matriarchal, and most of them are tribal, savage nomads. They live above ground in dense jungles where the leaf canopy protects them from really blinding sunlight, as well as migrating underground.
There are two other kinds of Drow in Eberron (that are recorded at least). One of them are elemental binders with an affinity for fire. They have bronze-age arms and armor (but made out of "fireglass" which is basically bronze colored mithril) and advanced binding capabilities, and usually live in the ruins of their dead Fire Giant masters.
The other kind of Drow are drow that have given themeslves over to a mysterious powersource/deity called the Umbra. They call themeslves Umbragen and have advanced shadow manipulation abilities (represented by racial feats in an issue of Dragon). They aren't matriarchal, but they're the most "standard" drow of Eberron, living underground. They're currently at war with abberations and twisted monstrocities of Khyber, and they're also located in one of the most remote locations of Xen'drik, the jungle contenent so as to be almost inaccessible.

If your players are willing to make their characters more tribal and jungle-flavored, it shouldn't be too much of a problem. If you're looking for close analogue of a chaotic evil matriarchal society, I don't think you'll find one in Eberron without making one yourself.

Oh, also, Lolth doesn't exist in Eberron. But most of the (known) tribal drow worship Vulkoor, the Scorpion, and many believe he is responsible for the drow-scorpion tauric creatures known as Scarrow (think scorpion-drider, except a true breeding race and not a punishment for disobedient drow.)
PurpleRain
12-06-07, 09:33 PM well, if you didn't convince him, you convinced me to get the books. I usually do homebrew campaigns too, but this sounds like something right up my ally.
TheKeyofE
12-07-07, 12:42 AM This (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=945900) is a recent thread that will probably answer in detail most of your questions, although Avon did a really good job of summing up already.

Unless you and your players are big fans of the FR novel plots (Driz'zt and all that other drow good-ness -- or evil-ness?), I think Eberron is a good choice. Everyone can find something they like in Eberron; it's very open and inviting, and customizable to boot.
Edymnion
12-07-07, 12:46 PM Yeah, basically if you're going to be in the main setting, drow are not an option for PCs. There is no oppressive culture for them to escape from, there is no (wo)man keeping them down. They live in the jungles, are highly xenophobic to the point they don't WANT to interact with other races to begin with, and just want to be left alone in their ancestral lands and not be bothered.

They're encounters, not PCs.

And honestly, if you're thinking about changing over, then at least borrow a copy of the ECS and read through it. Its just silly to try to convert to a setting you don't have. And if you haven't read the setting yet, why do you want to change over to it? Not being snarky, honestly curious. Why are you so gung-ho to play a setting that you know nothing about, and apparently don't want to learn about until after you make up your mind?
Dusk_Raider
12-07-07, 04:29 PM Yeah, basically if you're going to be in the main setting, drow are not an option for PCs. There is no oppressive culture for them to escape from, there is no (wo)man keeping them down. They live in the jungles, are highly xenophobic to the point they don't WANT to interact with other races to begin with, and just want to be left alone in their ancestral lands and not be bothered.

They're encounters, not PCs.

And honestly, if you're thinking about changing over, then at least borrow a copy of the ECS and read through it. Its just silly to try to convert to a setting you don't have. And if you haven't read the setting yet, why do you want to change over to it? Not being snarky, honestly curious. Why are you so gung-ho to play a setting that you know nothing about, and apparently don't want to learn about until after you make up your mind?

I know literally nobody else who plays D&D, much less uses Ebberon. I live where games go to die, Suburbs. But I kept hearing on the forums how the FR's are effectively dead as soon as 4.0 arrives, and how Ebberon was so awesome because it was so undeveloped. Thanks, though.
Edymnion
12-07-07, 11:12 PM I know literally nobody else who plays D&D, much less uses Ebberon. I live where games go to die, Suburbs. But I kept hearing on the forums how the FR's are effectively dead as soon as 4.0 arrives, and how Ebberon was so awesome because it was so undeveloped. Thanks, though.Then honestly, find a gaming store, or even a large book store that carries roleplaying books and has a reading section. Find a copy of the ECS, sit down, and start reading it.

I would never suggest that anyone buy any D&D book they have not read first. Any gaming store is going to be fine with you reading the books before you buy them (well, not cover to cover and taking up space all day long, but 20 minutes or so should be fine), because thats a normal thing for most people to do. Most large book/media stores also have reading areas where you can check things out.

Speaking of checking things out, you can also get D&D books through your local library. If they don't have them on the shelves, ask the library if they can get you a copy through their exchange program. That way, you can borrow a free copy for at least a week, sometimes upwards of a month, to read it and see if you like it or not before buying.

If those aren't valid options for you, then go to your local used book store (every city has at least one), and see if they have it. If you gotta buy it sight unseen, at least you'll be getting it for half price (or less even).

Or, if they don't have it, hit eBay.
I'm looking at it right now. Just did a search for "Eberron Campaign Setting". There is one up there right now for $3.99, with $5 shipping.

Don't judge the setting without reading it first, and if at all possible, don't buy it without reading it first. If you have no choice, then buy it as cheaply as possible. If you like it, then you can buy the expansion books at normal price. If you don't like it, then you're out less money than you'd probably spend at McDonald's for lunch, but at least you'll be able to say that you did read it all, and have a valid reason for not liking it.
ArcTan
12-07-07, 11:33 PM I've recently been considering switching from my usual Forgotten Realms setting to Ebberon, and I was all set to begin the change when I realized something: Out of all my players (I have 2) both are Drows. Drows and the Underdark are critical to the game I'm running, and I was just wondering if Ebberon has something at least similar to the Underdark and the Drow. Please don't say "Consult Page____of the Ebberon Campaign setting for answers", because I don't want to buy it if it's not going to be used.

Drow exist, living on the primitive and faraway continent of Xen'drik as xenophobic tribesmen, and the Underdark exists in the form of the scary underworld called Khyber.

Most Drow *don't* live in Khyber, but there is a significant population of Drow who do, the Umbragen, who fled into Khyber long ago and made a pact with some kind of Shadow entity who lives under there to protect them from the many horrors of the underworld. Your Drow PCs would probably work best as Umbragen, at least for flavor purposes (if they're supposed to be good guys, and intelligent, curious good guys with a reason to go adventuring).

I don't share Edymnion's hostility to the idea of Drow PCs or his general insistence that Eberron is all about excluding concepts that aren't Eberron enough, so I don't actually see a problem with converting your Drow PCs to an Eberron campaign. If the game *takes place* in the Underdark (Khyber), then the fact that Xen'drik is far away from the main campaign continent means nothing -- your campaign isn't set there anyway, and if you want to go there, well, Khyber is a bizarre and twisting, possibly magical underworld (like the Underdark) with tunnels that can take you anywhere if you brave the dangers therein. Your PCs will be exceptional among the "normal" Humans and Elves they encounter and inspire a great deal of wonder and distrust -- but isn't that why you were playing Drow anyway?
ArcTan
12-07-07, 11:38 PM Yeah, basically if you're going to be in the main setting, drow are not an option for PCs. There is no oppressive culture for them to escape from, there is no (wo)man keeping them down.

Every culture is oppressive for people who don't like it, especially in a place like Xen'drik where it's hard to escape from your home without being eaten by monsters.

They live in the jungles, are highly xenophobic to the point they don't WANT to interact with other races to begin with, and just want to be left alone in their ancestral lands and not be bothered.

That only really applies to the Children of Vulkoor, and even then they're supposed to be a diverse and motley lot who greatly enjoy fighting and testing their prowess. Adventurers are supposed to be heroic and exceptional. Is it *that* surprising that one or two enterprising Children of Vulkoor might not start wandering the land looking for excitement?

And that's *just* the savage and unenlightened Children of Vulkoor. The Sulatar are an advanced civilization who seriously intend to conquer the entire world, and are *constantly* looking for a way off of Xen'drik in defiance of the Traveler's Curse, using magic the mages of Khorvaire have never seen the like of.

And the Umbragen are trapped in the Underdark -- a bizarre and geography-defying network of tunnels that connects any number of mouths of Khyber all over the world -- in a desperate struggle for survival, badly in need of aid. Indeed, they were *invented* as a PC race (well, as a protagonist race for the RTS game Dragonshard, but still -- a race that wants and needs things and is willing to fight to get them).

They're encounters, not PCs.

That's what they used to say about Orcs and Hobgoblins. One of the points of appeal of Eberron is supposed to be that it's more open-minded than that.
TheKeyofE
12-08-07, 12:48 AM You could run the game out of Stormreach (the only "civilized" town in Xen'drik -- same location as D&DO). I could see Drow PCs as mercenaries there, although they would still be eyed warily by the other adventurers in town.
AvonRekaes
12-09-07, 12:56 PM Also, there's the City of Stormreach sourcebook due out pretty damn soon, which, if the Sharn book is any indication, will contain enough material for you to run several campaigns completely in Stormreach.

Also, yeah, Edymnion has some good advice about finding a book, but don't listen to him when it comes to what should and shouldn't be in an Eberron game. You're the DM of your game, not him, so you can decide if you want Drow PCs or not.
Kreistor2
12-10-07, 04:22 AM That's what they used to say about Orcs and Hobgoblins. One of the points of appeal of Eberron is supposed to be that it's more open-minded than that.

On top of that, tribal cultures often consider banishment to be a worse form of punishment than death. There are criminals in every society, so there will also be those few that get marked as anathema and kicked out. Those have nowhere to go, so might be available as PC's.

I introduced a ritual for accused criminals in my Eberron. It's a test of strength and popularity. An accused person can call upon the rite of scarring, if they feel they are falsely accused.

For three days, the accused is tied to a pole and may not leave. There is a single longknife provided nearby. Any member of the tribe can come forward and use the longknife to do anything, except for the victims of the accused. No one is allowed to interfere with anyone holding the longknife. If you're alive at the end, you're free to go.

Most will merely cut the accused. But if someone has a longstanding grudge, this is the opportunity to slay their enemy and get away with it. So, to survive, the accused must be strong to survive the hundreds of cuts he will receive, and popular so that no one simply finishes him off.

Most survivors will not stay with the tribe, since who wants to stay with people that scarred you horribly? But for having survived, the survivors are recognized by all tribes as powerful, perhaps spiritual individuals. This will basically make them accepted in any other tribe that they choose. A useful trait for a guide, and one that will make him very desirable. You need to shadow a character like that, so you need to introduce some negative aspects in his backstory.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Dusk_Raider 12-06-07, 08:28 PM	I've recently been considering switching from my usual Forgotten Realms setting to Ebberon, and I was all set to begin the change when I realized something: Out of all my players (I have 2) both are Drows. Drows and the Underdark are critical to the game I'm running, and I was just wondering if Ebberon has something at least similar to the Underdark and the Drow. Please don't say "Consult Page____of the Ebberon Campaign setting for answers", because I don't want to buy it if it's not going to be used.
AvonRekaes 12-06-07, 09:07 PM	Eberron's Underdark is called "Khyber" and it is, according to myth, the body of an evil draconic overdeity. This can lead to all sorts of odd twists to Eberron's Underdark. For instance, "Khyber" might actually be considered to be a "layer" of the Material Plane, and the inside of the planet might be infinitely larger than the size of the planet itself. Basically, if you want it to, Eberron's Khyber can be a combination of the Underdark and the Abyss. As for Drow, there are drow in Eberron, but they are vastly different from FR drow. They aren't automatically matriarchal, and most of them are tribal, savage nomads. They live above ground in dense jungles where the leaf canopy protects them from really blinding sunlight, as well as migrating underground. There are two other kinds of Drow in Eberron (that are recorded at least). One of them are elemental binders with an affinity for fire. They have bronze-age arms and armor (but made out of "fireglass" which is basically bronze colored mithril) and advanced binding capabilities, and usually live in the ruins of their dead Fire Giant masters. The other kind of Drow are drow that have given themeslves over to a mysterious powersource/deity called the Umbra. They call themeslves Umbragen and have advanced shadow manipulation abilities (represented by racial feats in an issue of Dragon). They aren't matriarchal, but they're the most "standard" drow of Eberron, living underground. They're currently at war with abberations and twisted monstrocities of Khyber, and they're also located in one of the most remote locations of Xen'drik, the jungle contenent so as to be almost inaccessible. If your players are willing to make their characters more tribal and jungle-flavored, it shouldn't be too much of a problem. If you're looking for close analogue of a chaotic evil matriarchal society, I don't think you'll find one in Eberron without making one yourself. Oh, also, Lolth doesn't exist in Eberron. But most of the (known) tribal drow worship Vulkoor, the Scorpion, and many believe he is responsible for the drow-scorpion tauric creatures known as Scarrow (think scorpion-drider, except a true breeding race and not a punishment for disobedient drow.)
PurpleRain 12-06-07, 09:33 PM	well, if you didn't convince him, you convinced me to get the books. I usually do homebrew campaigns too, but this sounds like something right up my ally.
TheKeyofE 12-07-07, 12:42 AM	This (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=945900) is a recent thread that will probably answer in detail most of your questions, although Avon did a really good job of summing up already. Unless you and your players are big fans of the FR novel plots (Driz'zt and all that other drow good-ness -- or evil-ness?), I think Eberron is a good choice. Everyone can find something they like in Eberron; it's very open and inviting, and customizable to boot.
Edymnion 12-07-07, 12:46 PM	Yeah, basically if you're going to be in the main setting, drow are not an option for PCs. There is no oppressive culture for them to escape from, there is no (wo)man keeping them down. They live in the jungles, are highly xenophobic to the point they don't WANT to interact with other races to begin with, and just want to be left alone in their ancestral lands and not be bothered. They're encounters, not PCs. And honestly, if you're thinking about changing over, then at least borrow a copy of the ECS and read through it. Its just silly to try to convert to a setting you don't have. And if you haven't read the setting yet, why do you want to change over to it? Not being snarky, honestly curious. Why are you so gung-ho to play a setting that you know nothing about, and apparently don't want to learn about until after you make up your mind?
Dusk_Raider 12-07-07, 04:29 PM	Yeah, basically if you're going to be in the main setting, drow are not an option for PCs. There is no oppressive culture for them to escape from, there is no (wo)man keeping them down. They live in the jungles, are highly xenophobic to the point they don't WANT to interact with other races to begin with, and just want to be left alone in their ancestral lands and not be bothered. They're encounters, not PCs. And honestly, if you're thinking about changing over, then at least borrow a copy of the ECS and read through it. Its just silly to try to convert to a setting you don't have. And if you haven't read the setting yet, why do you want to change over to it? Not being snarky, honestly curious. Why are you so gung-ho to play a setting that you know nothing about, and apparently don't want to learn about until after you make up your mind? I know literally nobody else who plays D&D, much less uses Ebberon. I live where games go to die, Suburbs. But I kept hearing on the forums how the FR's are effectively dead as soon as 4.0 arrives, and how Ebberon was so awesome because it was so undeveloped. Thanks, though.
Edymnion 12-07-07, 11:12 PM	I know literally nobody else who plays D&D, much less uses Ebberon. I live where games go to die, Suburbs. But I kept hearing on the forums how the FR's are effectively dead as soon as 4.0 arrives, and how Ebberon was so awesome because it was so undeveloped. Thanks, though.Then honestly, find a gaming store, or even a large book store that carries roleplaying books and has a reading section. Find a copy of the ECS, sit down, and start reading it. I would never suggest that anyone buy any D&D book they have not read first. Any gaming store is going to be fine with you reading the books before you buy them (well, not cover to cover and taking up space all day long, but 20 minutes or so should be fine), because thats a normal thing for most people to do. Most large book/media stores also have reading areas where you can check things out. Speaking of checking things out, you can also get D&D books through your local library. If they don't have them on the shelves, ask the library if they can get you a copy through their exchange program. That way, you can borrow a free copy for at least a week, sometimes upwards of a month, to read it and see if you like it or not before buying. If those aren't valid options for you, then go to your local used book store (every city has at least one), and see if they have it. If you gotta buy it sight unseen, at least you'll be getting it for half price (or less even). Or, if they don't have it, hit eBay. I'm looking at it right now. Just did a search for "Eberron Campaign Setting". There is one up there right now for $3.99, with $5 shipping. Don't judge the setting without reading it first, and if at all possible, don't buy it without reading it first. If you have no choice, then buy it as cheaply as possible. If you like it, then you can buy the expansion books at normal price. If you don't like it, then you're out less money than you'd probably spend at McDonald's for lunch, but at least you'll be able to say that you did read it all, and have a valid reason for not liking it.
ArcTan 12-07-07, 11:33 PM	I've recently been considering switching from my usual Forgotten Realms setting to Ebberon, and I was all set to begin the change when I realized something: Out of all my players (I have 2) both are Drows. Drows and the Underdark are critical to the game I'm running, and I was just wondering if Ebberon has something at least similar to the Underdark and the Drow. Please don't say "Consult Page____of the Ebberon Campaign setting for answers", because I don't want to buy it if it's not going to be used. Drow exist, living on the primitive and faraway continent of Xen'drik as xenophobic tribesmen, and the Underdark exists in the form of the scary underworld called Khyber. Most Drow don't live in Khyber, but there is a significant population of Drow who do, the Umbragen, who fled into Khyber long ago and made a pact with some kind of Shadow entity who lives under there to protect them from the many horrors of the underworld. Your Drow PCs would probably work best as Umbragen, at least for flavor purposes (if they're supposed to be good guys, and intelligent, curious good guys with a reason to go adventuring). I don't share Edymnion's hostility to the idea of Drow PCs or his general insistence that Eberron is all about excluding concepts that aren't Eberron enough, so I don't actually see a problem with converting your Drow PCs to an Eberron campaign. If the game takes place in the Underdark (Khyber), then the fact that Xen'drik is far away from the main campaign continent means nothing -- your campaign isn't set there anyway, and if you want to go there, well, Khyber is a bizarre and twisting, possibly magical underworld (like the Underdark) with tunnels that can take you anywhere if you brave the dangers therein. Your PCs will be exceptional among the "normal" Humans and Elves they encounter and inspire a great deal of wonder and distrust -- but isn't that why you were playing Drow anyway?
ArcTan 12-07-07, 11:38 PM	Yeah, basically if you're going to be in the main setting, drow are not an option for PCs. There is no oppressive culture for them to escape from, there is no (wo)man keeping them down. Every culture is oppressive for people who don't like it, especially in a place like Xen'drik where it's hard to escape from your home without being eaten by monsters. They live in the jungles, are highly xenophobic to the point they don't WANT to interact with other races to begin with, and just want to be left alone in their ancestral lands and not be bothered. That only really applies to the Children of Vulkoor, and even then they're supposed to be a diverse and motley lot who greatly enjoy fighting and testing their prowess. Adventurers are supposed to be heroic and exceptional. Is it that surprising that one or two enterprising Children of Vulkoor might not start wandering the land looking for excitement? And that's just the savage and unenlightened Children of Vulkoor. The Sulatar are an advanced civilization who seriously intend to conquer the entire world, and are constantly looking for a way off of Xen'drik in defiance of the Traveler's Curse, using magic the mages of Khorvaire have never seen the like of. And the Umbragen are trapped in the Underdark -- a bizarre and geography-defying network of tunnels that connects any number of mouths of Khyber all over the world -- in a desperate struggle for survival, badly in need of aid. Indeed, they were invented as a PC race (well, as a protagonist race for the RTS game Dragonshard, but still -- a race that wants and needs things and is willing to fight to get them). They're encounters, not PCs. That's what they used to say about Orcs and Hobgoblins. One of the points of appeal of Eberron is supposed to be that it's more open-minded than that.
TheKeyofE 12-08-07, 12:48 AM	You could run the game out of Stormreach (the only "civilized" town in Xen'drik -- same location as D&DO). I could see Drow PCs as mercenaries there, although they would still be eyed warily by the other adventurers in town.
AvonRekaes 12-09-07, 12:56 PM	Also, there's the City of Stormreach sourcebook due out pretty damn soon, which, if the Sharn book is any indication, will contain enough material for you to run several campaigns completely in Stormreach. Also, yeah, Edymnion has some good advice about finding a book, but don't listen to him when it comes to what should and shouldn't be in an Eberron game. You're the DM of your game, not him, so you can decide if you want Drow PCs or not.
Kreistor2 12-10-07, 04:22 AM	That's what they used to say about Orcs and Hobgoblins. One of the points of appeal of Eberron is supposed to be that it's more open-minded than that. On top of that, tribal cultures often consider banishment to be a worse form of punishment than death. There are criminals in every society, so there will also be those few that get marked as anathema and kicked out. Those have nowhere to go, so might be available as PC's. I introduced a ritual for accused criminals in my Eberron. It's a test of strength and popularity. An accused person can call upon the rite of scarring, if they feel they are falsely accused. For three days, the accused is tied to a pole and may not leave. There is a single longknife provided nearby. Any member of the tribe can come forward and use the longknife to do anything, except for the victims of the accused. No one is allowed to interfere with anyone holding the longknife. If you're alive at the end, you're free to go. Most will merely cut the accused. But if someone has a longstanding grudge, this is the opportunity to slay their enemy and get away with it. So, to survive, the accused must be strong to survive the hundreds of cuts he will receive, and popular so that no one simply finishes him off. Most survivors will not stay with the tribe, since who wants to stay with people that scarred you horribly? But for having survived, the survivors are recognized by all tribes as powerful, perhaps spiritual individuals. This will basically make them accepted in any other tribe that they choose. A useful trait for a guide, and one that will make him very desirable. You need to shadow a character like that, so you need to introduce some negative aspects in his backstory.